Turning the table

[Trialbyfire]

sex should not be about power. If it is, I consider it to be unevolved and bound to ego and societal teachings.

 

The bottom line and problem is that no one is pointing the finger at the man. None of this would've happened had it not been for him. He is the one who betrayed the marriage. The OW did not force him to cheat. She may have made less than desirable choices and had a hand in wrecking the marriage, but sole responsibility is upon his shoulders. He is the one that stood there on their wedding day and said "til death do us part"

 

How she can even look at him is beyond me.

 

If she is still looking for revenge, then she is clearly not healed from this wound. And looking for comfort from the one who took it away is foolish.

While I understand what you're communicating, sara is definitely pointing a finger at the man. It's why she's using him for sex. Consider it a slow exit strategy. You can slowly wean yourself off the physical side of the relationship while bolstering your self-esteem at his expense.

[Confused27]

While I understand what you're communicating, sara is definitely pointing a finger at the man. It's why she's using him for sex. Consider it a slow exit strategy. You can slowly wean yourself off the physical side of the relationship while bolstering your self-esteem at his expense.

 

again, how can she get self-esteem from someone who treated her like trash? Do prostitutes get self-esteem from paying customers? There is NO way that you can get healthy self-esteem from someone who made you feel like a piece of trash that needed to be thrown away. I understand the human desire to try to get it back from that person, but they ( in this case, the H) never had it to begin with. Her self-esteem was NEVER his possession. Therefore, she doesn't need to go to him to get it back. Instead, she needs to go to herself, to the parts of her that were wounded and look for it there. There needs to be REAL healing here....

 

as far as the physical side, there is no way that someone can separate love and sex after being with someone for that long. It is impossible. If she is going through dick withdrawal, then call up the BF more often.

 

oh yeah....how is this at his expense? Im having a hard time figuring out how he is being hurt at all....he may be hurt if she treated him like the piece of trash that he is....letting someone pleasure themselves through you and giving them your most intimate moments is not "hurting" them

[Trialbyfire]

again, how can she get self-esteem from someone who treated her like trash? Do prostitutes get self-esteem from paying customers? There is NO way that you can get healthy self-esteem from someone who made you feel like a piece of trash that needed to be thrown away. I understand the human desire to try to get it back from that person, but they ( in this case, the H) never had it to begin with. Her self-esteem was NEVER his possession. Therefore, she doesn't need to go to him to get it back. Instead, she needs to go to herself, to the parts of her that were wounded and look for it there. There needs to be REAL healing here....

 

as far as the physical side, there is no way that someone can separate love and sex after being with someone for that long. It is impossible. If she is going through dick withdrawal, then call up the BF more often.

Apparently sara is getting self-esteem through using him and pulling the wool over the eyes of the ex-OW. I see no love happening here. With this in mind, because I can only believe what she is saying, since I'm not in her head, it's a form of empowerment. Now she's the one who's getting lavished with attention, with him at her beck and call and the ex-OW being named the nasty one. If she wants him, she consents to the meeting. If she doesn't want him, she says no. How much more power could you want over someone? This is about power and control, not about love.

[GreenEyedLady]

Apparently sara is getting self-esteem through using him and pulling the wool over the eyes of the ex-OW. I see no love happening here. With this in mind, because I can only believe what she is saying, since I'm not in her head, it's a form of empowerment. Now she's the one who's getting lavished with attention, with him at her beck and call and the ex-OW being named the nasty one. If she wants him, she consents to the meeting. If she doesn't want him, she says no. How much more power could you want over someone? This is about power and control, not about love.

 

That's not any way to develop self-esteem...that comes from within...I don't think any counseling professional would suggest this as a strategy to develop self esteem...

 

I think that what (if this story is even true) she will learn about power and control is that she doesn't have any...it's a facade...she'll see that the real power and control comes from living well...that is, after all, THE BEST REVENGE...

[Confused27]

Apparently sara is getting self-esteem through using him and pulling the wool over the eyes of the ex-OW. I see no love happening here. With this in mind, because I can only believe what she is saying, since I'm not in her head, it's a form of empowerment. Now she's the one who's getting lavished with attention, with him at her beck and call and the ex-OW being named the nasty one. If she wants him, she consents to the meeting. If she doesn't want him, she says no. How much more power could you want over someone? This is about power and control, not about love.

 

 

Please re-read what you wrote and think about what you are really saying. I'm not trying to be condescending or high and mighty. This type of stuff really concerns me as I've seen many women subjugate themselves thinking they were "in control" when, in fact, they weren't at all....instead, the man had them thinking they were.

 

"getting self-esteem through using him"....you do not get true self-esteem through using others.

 

"how much more power could you want over someone?".....this is the most alarming statement in your post. Why would anyone WANT power over another person? That want is a clear sign of dysfunction. Power games are not about wholeness and never lead to a good conclusion. Power and control issues arise out of wounds and only cause more wounds.

If she were truly free of this situation, she would have no need to have power over him or anyone else. He had power over her and took away her inherent rights as a human being: to love yourself, to love others and to have confidence. She can not regain these things by sleeping with him. Sex is not a path to those things. Sex should be about sharing your pleasure, your best qualities, your soul with someone else. To use sex for power is to degrade yourself and the magic of human intimacy.

 

Again, I am not vilifying the OP...It saddens me to see someone hurting so much a grasping for anything to stop the hurt....she is going down the wrong path

[Confused27]

That's not any way to develop self-esteem...that comes from within...I don't think any counseling professional would suggest this as a strategy to develop self esteem...

 

I think that what (if this story is even true) she will learn about power and control is that she doesn't have any...it's a facade...she'll see that the real power and control comes from living well...that is, after all, THE BEST REVENGE...

 

brilliantly said!

[Trialbyfire]

That's not any way to develop self-esteem...that comes from within...I don't think any counseling professional would suggest this as a strategy to develop self esteem...

 

I think that what (if this story is even true) she will learn about power and control is that she doesn't have any...it's a facade...she'll see that the real power and control comes from living well...that is, after all, THE BEST REVENGE...

Counselling will never advise the use of another person as a good strategy. Counselling will also never advise revenge as a strategy but a weaning off process isn't always negated. I'm not going to pass judgement of the right or wrong in this situation because each person has to deal with their own hurts a different way. Being the BW in a marriage who is blindsided in an affair situation can bring debilitating anger and pain from the love, respect, trust, control and power that's taken from you. As I previously mentioned, whether in this thread or another, it's like being raped. The actual penetration is meaningless, it's the violation. If you have the ability to take back the power and control, you can return some of the balance within yourself. No one heals until they find their way beyond that pain and anger.

[Trialbyfire]

Please re-read what you wrote and think about what you are really saying. I'm not trying to be condescending or high and mighty. This type of stuff really concerns me as I've seen many women subjugate themselves thinking they were "in control" when, in fact, they weren't at all....instead, the man had them thinking they were.

 

"getting self-esteem through using him"....you do not get true self-esteem through using others.

 

"how much more power could you want over someone?".....this is the most alarming statement in your post. Why would anyone WANT power over another person? That want is a clear sign of dysfunction. Power games are not about wholeness and never lead to a good conclusion. Power and control issues arise out of wounds and only cause more wounds.

If she were truly free of this situation, she would have no need to have power over him or anyone else. He had power over her and took away her inherent rights as a human being: to love yourself, to love others and to have confidence. She can not regain these things by sleeping with him. Sex is not a path to those things. Sex should be about sharing your pleasure, your best qualities, your soul with someone else. To use sex for power is to degrade yourself and the magic of human intimacy.

 

Again, I am not vilifying the OP...It saddens me to see someone hurting so much a grasping for anything to stop the hurt....she is going down the wrong path

Have you ever been cheated on in a marriage?

[bridget_jones]

Sara, you have stressed many times that you feel you are hurting your exHB's wife by now screwing him...how is it revenge if she is unaware and never finds out? It's only revenge in your mind.

This whole thing is pointless because like it has been pointed out the only one getting any advantage is your HB, he's getting great sex from two women, because I know that you are probably pulling all the amazing tricks in bed to keep him a comin' to see you, and she is the new wife, and has her own insecurities, she is putting on her best performance in bed, too. He is getting bj's and sexual acts that any man would dream about and you two are giving your all to your man in bed and he's just lying back and taking the pleasure. How does it make you feel that when he drives over to see you, he was just pumped out by her probably just moments before? GROSS. I'm sure he's told you that you are better in bed than his new wife, but guaranteed, he has told her that she is the best, too, when he was seeing her behind your back, he was telling her how much better the sex was with her. I just don't understand your smug attitude. When it comes down to it, the new wife isn't the one getting screwed....your exH is...by two women who are giving it all they've got to please him in the bedroom. also, honey, he's keeps telling you he wants to get back together with you so you'll continue being a participant in his sex escapades. It's a lot of guys fantasies to have more than one woman on the line who want to f**k his brains out on request, and that's what he's got. So, he doesn't want to get back together with you, hon, he's lied before with the lines, why wouldn't he keep giving you the line of wanting to reconcile and remarry you. LOL that you believe that when he says that, you are so naive.

Again, remember, it's not really revenge because the new wife doesn't know about it, so you're sexually performing for him for no good reason really.

[Confused27]

Have you ever been cheated on in a marriage?

 

I have never been married, but have been cheated on...so in my own capacity to understand those emotions, I have "been through the fire" so to speak.

 

I understand her motives, but again, one must look deeper and find the true motivation for putting one's self in this situation. Stripped to its barest level, she is simply having sex with someone.....who is married. What does that make her? The OW.

 

Lets' go further....

 

he's married, she has a new bf. What does this mean? She is now cheating on her current bf.

 

When things come full circle, the past doesn't always change the reality of the current situation. The present reality I stated above. It is not an assumption. Stripped to its core, it is factual.

 

So no. I have never had someone commit to me for life, only to have them break that commitment years and children later.

 

I just can not wrap my head around why she would ever soil herself with this man. When I put myself in that situation, the thought of letting him **** me makes me recoil in disgust. I would feel like I was throwing myself away and wearing a sign that says " I am not worthy"

 

WHY SLEEP WITH YOUR EX-HUSBAND THAT BETRAYED YOU????

 

I can't find any reason for it

[Trialbyfire]

I have never been married, but have been cheated on...so in my own capacity to understand those emotions, I have "been through the fire" so to speak.

 

I understand her motives, but again, one must look deeper and find the true motivation for putting one's self in this situation. Stripped to its barest level, she is simply having sex with someone.....who is married. What does that make her? The OW.

 

Lets' go further....

 

he's married, she has a new bf. What does this mean? She is now cheating on her current bf.

 

When things come full circle, the past doesn't always change the reality of the current situation. The present reality I stated above. It is not an assumption. Stripped to its core, it is factual.

 

So no. I have never had someone commit to me for life, only to have them break that commitment years and children later.

 

I just can not wrap my head around why she would ever soil herself with this man. When I put myself in that situation, the thought of letting him **** me makes me recoil in disgust. I would feel like I was throwing myself away and wearing a sign that says " I am not worthy"

 

WHY SLEEP WITH YOUR EX-HUSBAND THAT BETRAYED YOU????

 

I can't find any reason for it

 

Why do you want to sleep with someone currently in another relationship?

[ridingthebulls]

I'm totally in agreement with Confused. It doesn't matter if the OP is a OW, a BW, a BMW or a BS. She is giving the jerk what he wants. I can't imagine how someone could be emotionally invested enough in someone to marry him and bear children with him, and then be able to detach herself emotionally in such a clean-cut way. There is a very big chance that she and her children could be further emotionally damaged from this.

 

It's easy to make this into a battle between sides, but this is a board that is meant to give support and advice, not to draw battle lines and keep scores.

 

 

 

It doesn't sound clean-cut. It sounds like it took a lot of time to me. It sounds like she realized it after the affair started which was a year or more so into his new marriage. It also happens all the time that in long-term marriages, people just end up growing apart and don't have those same genuine feelings they had when they first met anymore. Only time will tell here which slot Sara is in.

[bridget_jones]

I still am not convinced that this isn't really true and that sara is very bitter. I strongly believe it is a revenge-fantasy as a warning to OWs out there that life isn't always happily ever after and the OWs think they're all that...and they're not.

[Confused27]

Why do you want to sleep with someone currently in another relationship?

 

I don't and I wouldn't. That's why we don't have sex.

 

I have feelings for him but respect his relationship and the person he is with.

 

To have sex with him would be to degrade my idea of sex. I do not believe in sex outside of a commited relationship. I don't judge people who do have sex outside of relationships, it just isn't my cup of tea.

 

Again, I think that when you are not careful, sex can become selfish, egotistical and about power/control...I don't get into that

[Trialbyfire]

I don't and I wouldn't. That's why we don't have sex.

 

I have feelings for him but respect his relationship and the person he is with.

 

To have sex with him would be to degrade my idea of sex. I do not believe in sex outside of a commited relationship. I don't judge people who do have sex outside of relationships, it just isn't my cup of tea.

 

Again, I think that when you are not careful, sex can become selfish, egotistical and about power/control...I don't get into that

While I believe that you don't and won't, are you certain you don't desire him?

 

By the same premise, you can't judge sara. She's having sex outside a relationship.

 

Each person has to deal with an affair in some way or another. Stand back and look at sara's situation. She was cheated on and the rest is the ripple effect. Something to consider when indulging in an affair whether it's physical, emotional or a combination of both.

[Confused27]

i am not judging her...just being honest ( and maybe harsh) because it concerns me. I don't know her but have read her story. That is enough to make me feel for her and her situation. It is just my hope that she reads the replies to her post and thinks about regaining her power as a human being.

And honestly, I love that we are able to debate without getting nasty

[NoIDidn't]

The real purpose of the OW/OM forum here on Loveshack is to provide support and discussion...if you don't like my discussion, you don't have to read it...

 

This is getting funnier and funnier by the page.

[NoIDidn't]

This might make me no longer welcome on this board....., but......

 

But this thread isn't even about Sara500 anymore. Its about the real bitterness and anger of the spurned OW. And let's not act like it doesn't exist. It might not be because he didn't choose you, it may be much deeper like "all the men in my life are jerks" or "why can't I land a good man" or "it always ends (like this, or just plain ends)" or "why can't I be happy".

 

This isn't about Sara anymore.

 

I am tired of reading all of the pontificating by the xOW going on here. All this talk about the law making a M valid, when it didn't make it valid when you were soooooooo in love. All this talk of situational ethics, when that is exactly what you were living in at one point in time. All this talk about healing and forgiving, self-respect, moving on, being used, blah, blah, blah....my eyes are glazing over.

 

When are you all going to stop projecting what went on in your A with a MM onto Sara? Why is it so hard to believe that HE is being used? Why can you so easily pass judgment on her and her actions, and not admit the same about yourselves and your actions on this forum? And the "I didn't know he was M'd" argument is a bunch of bull!!! Keeping it going after that revelation STILL makes you a co-conspirator with the xMM in betraying his family. Not one of you walked away the MINUTE his M was evident, so you can stop bringing that up if you continued after this revelation.

 

So much judgment in flying in this thread from those that were once in her shoes. So much misplaced anger and even hatred in the responses to this thread. What needs to happen is a good long look in the mirror. A look at yourselves and what you allowed yourselves to become instead of venting your frustration with your decisions on Sara. Like you, she will tire of this game and move on.

 

I can call bullsh*t on most of your responses because I have been there and done that. Being in denial of any sort is no fun when you look back and see how much of an a55 you (general you, or just speaking of myself) had been. All this "right is right, wrong is wrong" talk loses its luster when you consider the source. (sorry, but I am sure that I am not the only one of this opinion - it might not be fair, but it is what it is)

 

I hope that Sara will end this sooner than later as well, but not for any moral or fairness reasons. In the end, I hope she does it for her. She will be much happier when she lets go of her desire to pay back the wrong that was done to her.

[Trialbyfire]

And honestly, I love that we are able to debate without getting nasty

I 100% agree with this. If both parties remain cool about a discussion topic, it doesn't have to get out-of-hand.

 

Sometimes though, especially if it's fairly recent, it can be very difficult to distance yourself to an extent. I know what it felt like and have done my fair share of lashing out so I don't want to point any fingers, for certain.

[Guest]

This isn't about Sara anymore.

Agreed.

 

I would have guessed before seeing actual responses that the OWs would have used this scenario to say, Hey! As you can now see now, there ARE special circumstances. Had this been pointed out, ensuing discussions would have been much more agreeable.

 

Too bad an opportunity for everyone to come together has been wasted.

[GreenEyedLady]

When are you all going to stop projecting what went on in your A with a MM onto Sara?

 

I guess when the BS's stop projecting what happened/is happening in their M onto Sara as well...

 

The beauty of a public forum is that we are free to speak our feelings...EVERYONE OF US...and it doesn't matter if anyone or everyone agrees with us...

 

What I personally find ironic is that the argument that we usually we hear on this board is coming from the opposite side...and that when the tides are turned, that the opposite side is considered bitter and judgmental...

 

Where have we heard this before?

 

Perhaps now we can have a better understanding of each other...

[RecordProducer]

Here we go...you are so green, honey. Being in pain isn't a label. You sound angry as hell which is just fine with me...maybe you have good reason. I don't presume you to be anything but exactly how you sound...and that would be highly pissed. If you find sara's method of "empowerment" adequate then you just jump right on it! You go girl! I'm sure you'll show em all!

 

You are a complete freak PS...you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm embarrassed for you. honestly.

I totally agree. PinkShorts goes arounds and insults everybody for no reason. There is something very wrong with this person. Do we actually meet people like this in real life, smiling at us because it's part of their jobs?

[Meredith63]

Honestly..... living well is the best revenge. Move on with your life, this is silliness.