Abstinence

[Erik]

All right, just to prove I can suck it up and still come back for more, here's something I really don't understand. What is the purpose of abstinence?

 

I've heard exactly ONE argument I can relate to: that you don't want to have sex unless you are emotionally attached. I think that's going about it ass backwards, but I can relate to it.

 

I've heard lots of girls say that guys are cool with that because hey, he loves her, so it's not a problem. In my experience, a guy will agree to just about any kind of ridiculous stuff, if given the prospect of sex. In other words, I don't believe for one effing seconds that guys think months of abstinence is really a necessary or even beneficial thing for a relationship. He's just saying what he's expected to say. He just doesn't want to come of like a... Well, like I do.

 

I've heard it a lot from the ladies, I've heard it in capitals, numerals and integrals. So is there any gentlemen out there who did the abstinence-routine and got out alive? And do you REALLY think sex would've hurt your budding relationship? Your SO is not listening in, remember?

[bridget_jones]

abstinence. To me abstinence means not having sex at all, until marriage. Like in high school, abstinence is taught as good for the young people. You can date someone in high school, they are your 'girlfriend' and you never had sex. That's abstinence.

What you are describing is getting to know each other.

I do think that if a girl sleeps with a guy too soon, he might back off, or 'bail' because he gets freaked out and 'confused.' Lots of women on here will attest to this behavior. Also it could become all about sex after that, and the relationship burns out quickly. If you wait longer, get to know them well, create a MUTUAL emotional bond, then have sexual intimacy, there is more of a foundation for a future strong relationship.

I know you asked for men's opinions though.

[Erik]

So do they teach you in high school WHY abstinence is good? That's what really baffles me. What is it good for?

 

And yes, maybe abstinence is not the perfect term, but I trust you know what I mean.

[bridget_jones]

the best way of birth control and to not contract STDs which is the purpose of sex education, to prevent teen pregnancies and STDS in teens. They are not telling you as an adult that sex without marriage is wrong.

Yes I see what you mean, abstinence, waiting.... I have had a couple guys get freaked out and confused, one even told me it all felt 'sleezy' after I slept with them after only one or two dates.

[Erik]

Yes, I realise you are not taught to wait until marriage, I never had that impression. As for birth control and STD, this will not cease to be a problem because you wait. You have to face the music sooner or later. So is STD and birth control the reasons they give you in school?

 

The guy that felt sleazy - when was that? I mean, how old was he?

[shimmy]

I'm not a particular fan of abstinence, although it undeniably has its pluses if practiced correctly

I'm all for having sex on the first date/meeting if you feel like it, however I cant deny that my personal experience with sex on the first date verses holding off until emotionally connected usually makes a large difference

 

men I've slept with on the first meeting that actually continued to see afterwards - 1

men I've slept with after emotionally connected and continued to see afterwards - 5+

men that I've slept with on the first meeting that I never saw/spoke to again 15+

 

bottom line, abstain from sex until you get to know them if you are interested in more than just a one night stand, its just one of those rules for a reason unfortunately

 

if you just want to have sex with a girl, let her know that, she may be ok with it, if she's not then it'll save you both time and definitely some heartache on her end

yeah you wont get sex, but you also won't waste another persons time with trying to trick them into it

[Erik]

men I've slept with on the first meeting that actually continued to see afterwards - 1

men I've slept with after emotionally connected and continued to see afterwards - 5+

men that I've slept with on the first meeting that I never saw/spoke to again 15?

 

So the 15+ you slept with and did not see again, were you going for a lasting relationship? I could turn your arithmetics a bit around: there must be at least four guys that you felt emotionally connected to before sex, but is not seeing today. Did you marry any of these guys?

 

There is another thread on this, I noted:

It seems to me, that the way it is in here, the girl is per definition the one responsible for sex. This could be both good and bad from the girls point of view. Bad, because then the guy automatically will be pushed into the pushy role. And pushing for sex is never a good idea, the relationship becomes defined in terms resembling battle.

 

So if the premises for a relationship is that abstinence is the proof of interest, the girls becomes a gate-keeper. There is power in that, but the girl also lock herself into a pre-defined role: her duty is to hold out against the male assaults, no? So therefore, the male will assault her virtue instead of concentrating on the girl herself.

[bridget_jones]

The guy that felt sleazy - when was that? I mean, how old was he?

 

We slept with each other on the second date, had a really nice week together, then suddenly he stopped contact and responding to mine. We worked at a summer job together at the time, and we saw each other at work so during a break he came over to me and said "Hey I'm sorry about just dropping off like that, but the whole thing just really felt sleezy since we slept together right away." Ok, maybe he 'just wasn't into me' anymore...he did want to go out again, though, I wasn't interested after his behavior.

He was 28, I was 33 at the time.

 

As far as sex education goes, I am a high school teacher by profession (currently taking a break from it for a while) but I had a class of 13 students total, 3 of the girls in the class were mothers, this was a junior/senior class. Granted, they were a class of remedial reading students....

[shimmy]

out of the 15+, there definitely were some I was interested in for more than just sex, I used sex to get in quickly, there were occasional repeats but never anything that came of them, it lead to many disappointments

 

thing is we're (women) so often lied to or tricked into things with false intentions that when the sex is over and the man has gotten what he came for we're left only to wonder what we did wrong, why he was interested before, but not anymore, why it didn't work out and what could we do better next time, when it could have simply saved us time and emotional trouble if the man had just said, I just want to sleep with you

 

if there is someone that you're thinking about dating that doesn't want to have sex right away find out first if you and they are on the same page, as in do you just want to sleep with them, or do you want to date them, if you want the same things, the abstinence thing will eventually fall to the side once she's sure that you're being honest

 

but please, don't lie to her about it, its not a battle

[Erik]

OK, thanks for sharing. But just to be the devils advocate, maybe this guy was seeing another - summer job, right? Feeling sleazy sound like a crazy excuse for a break up, but I guess you'd think it reasonable, no? So I've only know you for a few days, but it sound like something you could relate to, and maybe he thought it would impress you.

 

I still haven't heard from any guys. Do you feel waiting has helped you?

[bridget_jones]

Like I sad we had only been seeing each other for a week, I wasn't crushed about it. He did say it felt 'sleezy' so maybe he hadn't slept with a woman so soon before, or associated it with one-night stands or whatever. Plus he did ask me to go out again, and I had the satisfaction of saying no. even though we had a fun week together, I don't think I was really 'into' him that much. maybe that's why I slept with him so soon, I didn't care about the consequences.

[alphamale]

what going on with you two ERIK and BJ? get a hotel room already

[bridget_jones]

however I don't want to pay for an international ticket right now and I believe Erik is taken.

[Erik]

@ Shimmy: Do you think you would have had a better chance with the guy you wanted, if you had waited?

 

If you feel you are lied to about sex, just remember: guys are ALWAYS want it. If he says he just wants to be your friend he is lying. And - this is what I try to explore in this thread - I think that any guy that says he'd rather wait, is lying too. The thing is, a guy can both want your body AND respect you at the same time.

 

Danes rarely lies about sex, there's no real point to it. So Danish guys can sleaze with the best of them, but rarely in the beginning of a relationship. Lying comes into play with adultery, but rarely with courting.

 

If you didn't feel sex was something you should fight to withtain, guy's wouldn't lie and trick you, not about sex anyway, it wouldn't be necessary. Granted, if you told the guys (in Denmark) that your policy was three months dry dating before any shenanigans, you wouldn't get many dates.

 

Hm... I think the last sentence is important. How would you feel, if you knew a policy of enforced waiting would practically annihilate your chances of a date? I'm not saying it is so, all speculation, but what if...?

[Erik]

All right, I think I can see the sleazy thing. If everybody says a girl is sleazy for having sex so quickly, maybe even the guys will believe so too.

 

I was taken last Friday and hopefully will be again tonight. I'd love to come to America, but last time, me and the GF got abused by the TSA no less than three times because of my (perfectly legal, bought in America) books. Your TSA really stinks when you are a tourist, you know that? I know other people that stay away from the US because of this.

[bridget_jones]

I don't think there is any set time limit, some men I develop a true connection with within a couple weeks, others it might take a month or longer to develop, I can't say "three month" rule or whatever, I have to really feel it is special to be intimate with him.

But a man who wouldn't wait for this to develop, I am not interested anyway. If a guy wants to have sex before I feel comfortable, and he says a comment like "I just don't want to wait. If I have to wait over a month longer, I'm going to have to stop dating you now."

Well I don't want to continue seeing him. I think a man who is like that is a total jerk anyway so I don't want to date a total jerk.

[alphamale]

If a guy wants to have sex before I feel comfortable, and he says a comment like "I just don't want to wait. If I have to wait over a month longer, I'm going to have to stop dating you now."

Well I don't want to continue seeing him. I think a man who is like that is a total jerk anyway so I don't want to date a total jerk.

but don't girls want honesty BJ? he may not end up getting sex from you but you will have respect for his honesty.

[bridget_jones]

just kidding, pun on words.

no I would have trouble respecting a guy who would say he wouldn't be waiting for sex because then I know he is just after sex. A guy wouldn't "have" to stop seeing me if he wasn't going to have sex with me before a month, so he wouldn't really be being honest with me.

[Erik]

The funny thing is, I never had a problem with abstinence personally; in fact it works like a charm with Danish girls, because they expect something else. So a typical MO for me would be to chat up a woman, flirt outrageously, get her home, and at just the right moment tell her that, thanks honey, it's been a wonderful evening, but alas I have a very important meeting tomorrow at 0600, so maybe we better call it a night. If the girl ever harboured any doubt about whether to sleep with me, they will evaporate instantly. She'll call me inside 72 hrs, it's practically guaranteed. And she will be in utter awe of my cool and self control and rip my clothes off on the next date.

 

Hm... I realise that 72 hrs. of abstinence may not impress you very much.

 

Alpha, sometimes honesty works with girls. Tell them exactly what you think, and they will be so shell shocked they'll let you do whatever you want.

[Erik]

I always tell a woman right from the start if I sleep with other girls. I loose some on that account, but not that many. You'd be surprised.

[bridget_jones]

what you speak of are games, strategies to get a woman in bed. What you speak of has nothing to do with having a meaningful relationship with a member of the opposite sex. It's not a game of one against the other, the way I go about intimacy. I like to be intimate with someone I know well, and have developed an emotional attachment to, and he feels the same. It's wonderful and has nothing to do with what you just posted.....and whether you know it or not, you just degraded your own 'sisters' yourself.

[Erik]

I think the reason I don't quite understand this, is that I see no wrong in dating just for the sex. I know you find this hard to believe, B., but where I live, girls don't either. And not because they are forced or feel obliged to or are brainwashed. It just doesn't carry any stigmatum. I can imagine what kind of images of Denmark this may provoke, but it's really not that bad. When I said I hoped to be taken tonight, it was largely wistful thinking. Scoring is hard, especially if you are not a natural talker. I score maybe five or six times a year. I hit on maybe a hundred girls to get these five, and I'm not bad looking. (The Avatar is not me - it's a French cartoon artist)

[Erik]

No, not meaningful relationships, it's games, yes. It's understood by all parties. But sometimes, it happened to me twice, this girl you picked up turns out to be a wonderful person, and you marry her. Danes definitely differentiate between affairs and relationships. When I have an SO I never cheat, and nor have my SO's been known to do so. Hm. Yes, the first SO I had did, but then, so did I.

[bridget_jones]

they just want sex. Others are looking for a relationship, to find someone to connect to and really love, and that applies to Denmark, too. there are women and men there who want 'it all' not just sex.

So if you're looking for a chance at a good relationship with someone, it's best to wait a while, you'll increase your chances of it being real and lasting. But if that's not what you want, cool. 'Abstinence' isn't really an issue then.

[Erik]

Perfectly right, most people out there in the jungle are looking for Mr or Ms

Right. But the way they see it, Mr Right doesn't come crawling through your bedroom window one moonlit night. You have to go out there and find him. And the best way to do that is playing the game. So maybe you are looking for the Only One, but why not have fun along the way? IMO the best way of knowing another person is to have sex with her. Not for the sex itself, but for the post-sex chat. Notice my signature?