Do you believe that if you don't have sex within three dates with a person, you are

[Trialbyfire]

Sorry Erik but that's not my way. If I'm not emotionally connected with someone, it's not going to happen. The issue lies in how long it takes me to get that involved with someone.

 

My personal opinion is that if you tell the guy nicely that you're not ready, he will take one of the two options, leave or stay. I will not put out just to make a guy stay and have never had to. They've always stayed because they were understanding of my perspective, primarily guys looking for long-term relationships which is the type of guy that I've dated for the last decade (well besides my ex-marriage, lol).

 

When I was a teenager, I did date a lot for fun but not once did I have to put out to keep a guy. If he pressed too hard, he was out. I never teased and always let the guys know right from the start that I wasn't the type of girl who would easily do this.

[Erik]

Oh, come on. There is definitely a correlation between the length of time you know a person, and the chances that they will show you their true colours. Cut the crap, dude.

 

Of course! But - and I really think this should be counted amongst the ten most self-evident things in the world - you know a person better after you've slept together. True colours shows in bed.

 

I'm not saying you should marry after three dates.

 

What I really don't get, is the purpose of abstinence. If you don't feel like having sex, I can understand that. But people seems to think that ABSTINENCE is a natural part of a relationship rather than sex.

[bridget_jones]

I was in France last summer for 2 weeks, I love to travel.

Sorry about indirectly calling Danish girls sluts. And I admit I had forgotten about the Netherlands, and Daneland, and Iceland and Greenland and Switzerland and those different countries up there near Amserdam area and such.

So let's call a truce.

Hey I have slept with a guy on the first date before. That's a shocker isn't it?

[Erik]

OK, peace, B.

 

A shocker!? Hm... Tell you what, I once dated a girl two months without getting any.

[Erik]

Sorry Erik but that's not my way. If I'm not emotionally connected with someone, it's not going to happen. The issue lies in how long it takes me to get that involved with someone.

 

My personal opinion is that if you tell the guy nicely that you're not ready, he will take one of the two options, leave or stay. I will not put out just to make a guy stay and have never had to. They've always stayed because they were understanding of my perspective, primarily guys looking for long-term relationships which is the type of guy that I've dated for the last decade (well besides my ex-marriage, lol).

 

When I was a teenager, I did date a lot for fun but not once did I have to put out to keep a guy. If he pressed too hard, he was out. I never teased and always let the guys know right from the start that I wasn't the type of girl who would easily do this.

 

Well, maybe that's just how it works in America. I would say that men are men and that abstinence - and please note this qualification - with a person you love or, hell, like even, is not good for him. Of course a guy will play any game, including months of abstinence, to get into a girls pants, but I still don't see the purpose. Not even from the girls point of view. You could date a guy for years and still find out that he was not the guy you thought he was, when you get him to bed.

[Erik]

OK, some of it I understand - the emotionally connected bit. It's not the way it works in my part of the woods, but at least it's a meaningful argument.

[Trialbyfire]

While I won't disagree with the concept that there's always someone who can fool you, love doesn't happen in three dates. Only infatuation and crushes.

 

Perhaps the best way to describe my attitude is that I don't believe in having sex, I believe in making love. You can mock that as purely idealistic but when it comes down to it, if I don't have the emotional connection, it doesn't happen for me.

[bridget_jones]

I wish I didn't start this thread. Everyone has their own opinion and it's not going to change and this thread could go on for a year because there is no 'right' or 'wrong'.

[tragicglands]

I wish I didn't start this thread.

If you wish hard enough, and love long enough, then anything is possible.

and this thread could go on for a year

Most times it doesn't even last three minutes.

[Trialbyfire]

Eh? Why be embarrassed about it?

 

That's the point of the whole thing. When people are ready, they are ready and no set formula will change it.

[letter-to-elise]

I was saying that partly ironically because I do feel sorry if the attitude is having sex right away is the only way to develop a relationship with a guy. I DO feel sorry for Danish women if sex right away is the societal expection....if that is true, a lot of women are having sex when they don't really know the man too well and they aren't really ready because they believe they have to do so in order to keep seeing him. That's sick! AND I've read a couple of Letter-to-Elise's other posts....things aren't going so well with that guy, and she would have had a LOT better insight about him if she would have gotten to know him well and developed an emotional and intellectual connection with him, she would have had more to base on her choice to sleep with him on. Now she's finding he's kind of a domineering clod....had she dated him for a month and gotten to know him....she could have found that out sooner. Oh well.

 

Uh oh... I did not follow up on that thread, sorry. I am now dating him and things are going great! We solved the roughness issue by talking about it and are now having great sex!

[Erik]

That's the point of the whole thing. When people are ready, they are ready and no set formula will change it.

 

But the guy is normally ready after five minutes. I don't say that should be the time frame - even in my depraved part of the world, girls take longer than guys to be ready.

 

How do you suggest you reach a compromise? It seems to me, that the way it is in here, the girl is per definition the one responsible for sex. This could be both good and bad from the girls point of view. Bad, because then the guy automatically will be pushed into the pushy role. And pushing for sex is never a good idea, the relationship becomes defined in terms resembling battle.

[Erik]

Uh oh... I did not follow up on that thread, sorry. I am now dating him and things are going great! We solved the roughness issue by talking about it and are now having great sex!

 

 

Good for you. Are you wearing your asbestos suit? Danish values does not have much traction in here, believe me.

[Trialbyfire]

But the guy is normally ready after five minutes. I don't say that should be the time frame - even in my depraved part of the world, girls take longer than guys to be ready.

 

How do you suggest you reach a compromise? It seems to me, that the way it is in here, the girl is per definition the one responsible for sex. This could be both good and bad from the girls point of view. Bad, because then the guy automatically will be pushed into the pushy role. And pushing for sex is never a good idea, the relationship becomes defined in terms resembling battle.

You talk about sex as if it's owed, an obligation to dating. Simply put, it's not. Just like it shouldn't be an obligation for the guy to pay every time or that the guy needs to shower a girl with gifts, to get and/or retain her attention.

[Erik]

I've not once in my 150+ posts stated that sex is an obligation, and often the opposite. Not even implied it, as I see it, but lot's of people think otherwise, so I'll excuse you for thinking so.

 

My impression is, that most girls in here thinks sex is something they own and is responsible for. I've seen it phrased like a girl is "giving up" sex - I won't bother to check, but if memory serves me, I think you yourself wrote words to that effect in the thread that spawned this one. The same thinking is discernible in your analogy with the lavishing of gifts and such. Give gifts, receive sex. Or: give commitment, receive sex. Or: give emotions, receive sex. Sex is not a gift. It is an experience two people share, you can't give or withhold it and still think of it as consensual sex. It becomes bargain-sex, not consensual sex.

 

I love to give girls gifts, but if I though she considered it as prerequisite for sex, I'd tell her to go f... herself.

[Trialbyfire]

My body, my time. Your body, your time. You may not force something on me and I will not force something on you. Anything else is called rape.

[DanielMadr]

playing games and being cruel with someone? Because I choose to wait about 2 months or so, to develop a relationship and emotional connection, does this make me have Victorian ideals? Because Erik has posted that this is true about me because of these things, and also that all Danish women believe that dating is all about having sex and that relationships are pretty much all based on sex and all of us should come to terms with that and just have sex right away.

 

There is nothing wrong with waiting so long. On the other hand it signifies girl is not entirelly OK with the guy or herself. Meaning her interest level is not so high and he wasnt good enough to increase it quicker (shame).....and guy eject himself. Or that you are uneasy with yourself.

 

I will have no problem with girl sleeping with me on first date. I wouldnt think she is easy or slv_t. I can see she is not so relaxed with other guys.

 

After 3 dates you should know(feel) if the attractin is strong enough. If interest level lingers too long in mild level it wont get much better probably.

 

If you can tell right away he is OK. Sleep with him. You cant spoil it by doing so. If he is faking his Interest level and he is skilled time wont change it....you only loose precious time.

[Erik]

My body, my time. Your body, your time. You may not force something on me and I will not force something on you. Anything else is called rape.

 

 

Who is talking about forcing!?!

[bridget_jones]

since around Valentine's Day....about 6 dates or so. Daniel, I'm glad I haven't slept with him yet because although I'm very attracted physically, I'm still learning about him. I want to find out more about him, and him to find out more about me. I want to be able to sleep with him having complete trust and a real bond. And he's still interested in seeing me. If he had decided not to see me after the third date because we didn't have sex, fine. It's not about me being seen as 'easy' or whatever, it's not about being 'attracted'....it's about being in a true relationship of the minds AND body with your partner, that's what I want. And it's not hard to get! you CAN'T tell right away if someone is OK. But I want more than OK anyway. Actually I find guys are MORE attracted to me when I wait longer, Daniel, because I've given them the gift of getting to know me and developing an emotional relationship with me, and a wonderful bond before screwing. WRONG AGAIN, DANIEL.

[alphamale]

I will have no problem with girl sleeping with me on first date.

me neither DMADR...sometimes its nice to get the sex thing out of the way early on.

[DanielMadr]

since around Valentine's Day....about 6 dates or so. Daniel, I'm glad I haven't slept with him yet because although I'm very attracted physically, I'm still learning about him. I want to find out more about him, and him to find out more about me. I want to be able to sleep with him having complete trust and a real bond. And he's still interested in seeing me. If he had decided not to see me after the third date because we didn't have sex, fine. It's not about me being seen as 'easy' or whatever, it's not about being 'attracted'....it's about being in a true relationship of the minds AND body with your partner, that's what I want. And it's not hard to get! you CAN'T tell right away if someone is OK. But I want more than OK anyway. Actually I find guys are MORE attracted to me when I wait longer, Daniel, because I've given them the gift of getting to know me and developing an emotional relationship with me, and a wonderful bond before screwing. WRONG AGAIN, DANIEL.

 

Problem seems to be that you view it as SCREWING. Precautions like 'Does he love me or does he want to screw me' is not the right attitude. Sure there are hit & run guys....but thinking this will alienate the others who are not.

 

a)Im pleased when girl is sure of me and sleeps with me. It signifies she is confident enough to believe in me and to believe in herself that I will stick around. She is OK with her sexuality and knows that she attracts men because of her personality and sexuality alltogether.

 

b) And Im also pleased when girl postpones sex. It signifies she has real interest in me, because I know some girls postpone sex when they want relationship with a guy.

 

I like a) more because it is more fun, more passion, more straight forward and I know that girl is confident without issues with sex, doesnt try to sexploit me to relationship, doesnt have issues like 'am I any good without vagina?'. Less worries then.

 

Reason why I write all this......lot of guys, especially younger ones have know knowledge about these things. And girls dont know how guys feel. All you heard is 'Guys just want to screw'. It is simplified BS. And makes lot of bad blood.

[Erik]

All right, I've been pondering the pressure-problem a bit. (If you are fed up with the Danish travelogue, skip this.)

 

In Copenhagen, the pressure is in the bars. Getting a date is damned hard, because, once you commit to guy or a girl, it's fairly understood sex is on the agenda. So once you get the girl or the boy home, there's normally no pressure anymore, you basically just get down to business.

 

Sometimes, yes, the girl gets cold feet, probably happens to guys as well; sex is not like backgammon. But in those cases you'd be aware that it is not a game, that something had really freaked her out, because she has already given her consent to sex by going with you. Most guys would be concerned and maybe a little bit spooked - "Jesus, did I do something?" But he would not see it as a game or a real turn-down, just bad luck.

 

The way I see it - and the idea is, that you correct me where I am wrong - in America the prospect of sex is left hanging there, so the pressure for sex is a constant part of the relationship until there is closure. So in a way, sex is a much bigger part of an American relationship. Danes get the sex-part out of the way immediately and hence sex is rarely an issue. No one feels pressured and no one feels frustrated or manipulated.

 

Please remark that I've been using the broad brush. A girl or a boy can always say no, even after having gone home with a date. Of course sex creates problems in Denmark too, sex is powerful stuff.

 

Coming to think of it, what I've seen of America is a LOT more about sex than Denmark. Sex is a part of everything coming out of Hollywood, it's in the TV, the commercials, the music, even in political sphere with Bush and Cheney especially, using crass phallic and copulation references in their speeches.

[DanielMadr]

All right, I've been pondering the pressure-problem a bit. (If you are fed up with the Danish travelogue, skip this.)

 

In Copenhagen, the pressure is in the bars. Getting a date is damned hard, because, once you commit to guy or a girl, it's fairly understood sex is on the agenda. So once you get the girl or the boy home, there's normally no pressure anymore, you basically just get down to business.

 

Sometimes, yes, the girl gets cold feet, probably happens to guys as well; sex is not like backgammon. But in those cases you'd be aware that it is not a game, that something had really freaked her out, because she has already given her consent to sex by going with you. Most guys would be concerned and maybe a little bit spooked - "Jesus, did I do something?" But he would not see it as a game or a real turn-down, just bad luck.

 

The way I see it - and the idea is, that you correct me where I am wrong - in America the prospect of sex is left hanging there, so the pressure for sex is a constant part of the relationship until there is closure. So in a way, sex is a much bigger part of an American relationship. Danes get the sex-part out of the way immediately and hence sex is rarely an issue. No one feels pressured and no one feels frustrated or manipulated.

 

Please remark that I've been using the broad brush. A girl or a boy can always say no, even after having gone home with a date. Of course sex creates problems in Denmark too, sex is powerful stuff.

 

Coming to think of it, what I've seen of America is a LOT more about sex than Denmark. Sex is a part of everything coming out of Hollywood, it's in the TV, the commercials, the music, even in political sphere with Bush and Cheney especially, using crass phallic and copulation references in their speeches.

 

Yes that is true. No black market then:D

 

Only problem is. I dont mind girl bedding me the same night weve met. But I do mind if she did this with 20 azzholes before me. And there would be much azzholes, because she didnt even get to know them. Thats the point. So I will go for confident virgins. Could be a problem these days

[alphamale]

The way I see it - and the idea is, that you correct me where I am wrong - in America the prospect of sex is left hanging there, so the pressure for sex is a constant part of the relationship until there is closure. So in a way, sex is a much bigger part of an American relationship. Danes get the sex-part out of the way immediately and hence sex is rarely an issue. No one feels pressured and no one feels frustrated or manipulated.....

 

...Coming to think of it, what I've seen of America is a LOT more about sex than Denmark. Sex is a part of everything coming out of Hollywood, it's in the TV, the commercials, the music, even in political sphere with Bush and Cheney especially, using crass phallic and copulation references in their speeches.

In general Europeans are much more relaxed and liberal and open about sexual activities. Americans tend to be very uptight about sexual relations mainly due to their puritanical background. Do not be fooled by the look that America is sexually liberated because it is not....all you see are sexual images that are meant to sell movies and products.

[Erik]

Yes that is true. No black market then:D

 

Only problem is. I dont mind girl bedding me the same night weve met. But I do mind if she did this with 20 azzholes before me. And there would be much azzholes, because she didnt even get to know them. Thats the point. So I will go for confident virgins. Could be a problem these days

 

Virgins!?!? Are you insane? My first date was a virgin, what an effing disaster! Give me a hot tramp any day, the more experienced the better. Or a married woman.