DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 I never said I loved him. I'm not stringing him along either. OK. So you had no feelings for him? Why are you so hyped up that he dont call? You were giving him false hope for so long thats stringing and I dont mean false hope for mindless sex. I just can't understand how I could have lost him b/c I told him no about sex right now and was honest in my position. I don't want anyone's forgiveness or pity! Where did you get that idea?? I never said he was a jerk either, so stop putting words in my mouth. By rejecting him you lost him. Rejection hurts. Rejection means you dont trust him (=telling him "you jerk") or you dont find him atrractive....that hurts. He should cope with that, OK but he just didnt. You dont want pitty....fine with me. Why would he eject himself? B/c he should realize earlier, you dont like him or trust him or that you are too complicated ( only for him...you can hope ). That sucks if so, but should I have just not been honest with him? Now THAT would be playing w/his emotions. Holy crap, this is turning into some out of control battle of the sexes! Maybe that's all it is anyway. You know, I really truly hope I didn't lose him, I actually really like him. Honest? With what? That you have another guy on back burner? Thats your burden...why to confuse someone else? No battle of sexes. I see it pretty clearly. You enjoy guys company, compliments, pursuing etc. but not to the point you are really interested in him (lack of affection). He pursue, he try to bed you. You reject him. He is confused and frustrated and he ejects. And you are suddenly interested why he could leave such a fine chic. You are too hard to get. Effort is much bigger than gain. I think he will eventually call you....how you desribe him, he seems such a desperate looser. Dont forget to dump him.....to win the battle.
Outcast777 Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 i just think that you should keep on telling him that you are not ready and at least wait till you get married if you do get married to him that is.
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 All right Island Girl. I see you've been going over the last 20 posts and picked out the goodies. Many of the things are of course taken out of a specific context, so I'll not follow you comment by comment. Bridget, sorry for the Jesus- jibe. I don't expect you to be able to differentiate between The Netherlands and Denmark, they are small countries, but don't judge the Danish, or Dutch for that matter, by American standards. (And having been in here for a few days, I realise your standards are not All-American, but particular to you.) So here is a little more disclosure (and a hijacking of this thread, sorry about that, hipnawtic.) If hearing about foreign countries bores you, kindly disregard this: All of Continental Northern Europe, from the Rhine and up, basically share moral and religious values. All of our politicians are to the left of Ralph Nader, no matter if they call themselves Christian Conservatives or whatever, we are basically commies to a man. We don't believe in God. Some say they do, and yes, a few really does, but most people are kidding themselves, the most common answer in Denmark is "I believe there is SOMETHING". That's the closest the average Dane ever comes to God. Nobody believes in the Bible, or we think of it as an allegory. My guess would be that less than one person in a thousand has ever read it, that goes for Denmark anyway. We believe in Darwin; we consider sex as something hardwired into humans on an animal level. We attach little moral significance to the sex act itself, as atheists we are more concerned about our inner, personal ethics than by societal norms. Sex- and dating norms are basically the same all over continental North-West Europe, i.e. Northern Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland as well, just for good measure. I've traveled extensively in these countries, so I actually do know what I'm talking about. Maybe Danes tend to be a bit racier than the rest, but not by much. NW-Europe also has some of the most advanced equal rights in the world; there are recidivists anywhere, but in NW-E women are basically treated as equals with men, not only in law, but inside men's heads as well. In Sweden, there are more women in parliament than men, and in all of Scandinavia, there are as many women tending universities as there are men. There is still a considerable wage differential, and due to the six months paid maternity leave, that all Danish women are entitled to, (12 months in Sweden) it will probably not go away entirely. Many Danish women – my guess would be 20-30% - have actively decided never to marry or live with a man; as the saying goes, ”if I wanted a child, I'd become pregnant.” The majority of Danish women are serially monogamous, as is most Danish men, NOT because any moral dysfunction, but because we CHOOSE to. Danish women actually have a meaningful choice in this matter. I'm not saying everything is roses, there is a lot of problems related to this lifestyle - we can discuss that another time - but sex (or STD, lol) is not one of them. Now, Bridget, you walk up to one of these women that you so deplore, and explain them about sex and love and relationships and stuff. You'll be able to hear the roar of laughter right across the pond. I could say a lot about what I think American sex morale is or is not, but since I've only been to the US a couple of times, I'll try to stick to what's in front of me; it's not as easy as you might think: as a globetrotter and daily reader of several American news-sites, I feel I know everything about the US. Engaging in this thread however has been a real eye-opener for me. Believe me when I say that if I told my fellow Danes about you, they'd say I was bashing the US. At first I thought you were pre-puberty girls, your ideas about relationships sounds like they are taken straight out of glossy girlie-weeklies. Then I though you were Christian trolls, out to save a few souls for Jesus, now I might think you are legit. Bridget, should I return your favour and judge you from a Danish POV, I'd say I find your sexual moral deeply troubling, you are back in the Victorian age and in need of therapy. You are seeing relationships as a mercurial arrangement - which I can't blame you for, but a Danish therapist would see it as a big problem - but worse, MUCH worse, you are DELIBERATELY using sex as a bargaining chip, a deeply corrupt attitude. Every North European alive would condemn you for that, they'd think '(ex-)prostitute' straight away if they saw your posts. A therapist would say this attitude is detrimental to you having a close relationship with a man. And I think he would be right. The average Danish woman is a paragon of virtue compared to you; she doesn't t think selling her body is a pious act or the road to matrimonial bliss. So maybe all marriage is prostitution, and maybe many Danish women realise this, but they REGRET it, they do not CHERISH it. And just to put one last thing straight. Even if Danish women are serially monogamous and actively single, they ALL dream of knights, white chargers, white weddings, eternal fidelity and undying love. All of them. Only difference is, most of them realise it is only a dream. It's maturity on a level I doubt you'll ever understand. Now, I'm all for freedom of speech and such, but keep calling Danish women sluts, and the gloves will come off. (And yes, trust me on this one, the gloves are on at the moment.) To both of you, I think you should read some statistics on STD, divorces, teen motherhoods and so on. OK, maybe the divorce rate is a bit higher in Denmark than in the US, but STD and teen motherhoods are MUCH lower in Denmark and indeed in all the countries I mentioned, we prefer education to religion; sex education is MANDATORY! I've heard a lot of creative and funny excuses in my life, but fear of STD is new to me. BTW, you ever heard of the Kinsey-report,? That was in the fifties; it seems to me from your posts America has been sliding backwards since then. To the rest of you. I've read a LOT of posts since I came here a few days ago. Far and away the majority of them are amazingly sensible and level-headed – much more so than you'd find in Danish media. Maybe that's why Hipnawtic, Bridget and IG took me with my pants down, so to speak.
DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 ....with my pants down, so to speak. Hi Eric. I dont know much about Denmark even I have few friends there. But I heard some rumors that in Scandinavia (especially Sweden not so in Denmark thats true) women are so emancipated - free without responsibility that they behave like man. Sure it comes handy when interested in horizontal refreshment. But it is impossible to live with them. Do you think they are not waiting for prince charming on white horse? I think they do. But you dont provide any. You just give them more control, more power etc.....commies are decimating your country;) They think that they are mature when they do sex? I tell you it is immature, because like spoiled brats they cant wait for cookies after dinner. They have no goal. They are just enjoying life. They are scared shytless of responsibility thats why the freedom and NO CHILDREN. Westerners are all like spoiled little children. I bet you still have your toys in your room We are begining to have the same problems here. Look it is not question of national mentality it is question of prosperity and free society. I think people are all the same. And there is no marginal difference between Denmark and U.S.. There are differences but not so deep you present it. Island Girl and Bridget have some point in what they say. Are they happy? Only they know. Sure you can present them another view but please be objective.
Mazellan Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Erik, perhaps you should restrict your posting to Northern European forums... Your advice doesn't seem so relevant here. And stop trying to speak on behalf of 'all men'. I think a lot of what you have said is absolute rubbish. Wanting sex and being in love are two completely separate things. At least in my world.
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Yes, I said that this was not without problems, and much of what you say is true. But please note that I stated that ALL Danish women dream of knights. And no, Danish men does not provide white chargers and, uhm, lances, but this just makes them like any other man in the world. In fact, given the dating-race, Danish men do a real effort to put on a class act. No, it is not impossible to live with them, but it is not easy either. And yes, Danish women are probably much more empowered than American. Danish women are as different as women are everywhere, and yes, some of them are real ball breakers. (This is more common in Sweden, where 95% of all politicians, males included, openly declare themselves feminists, LOL!) Danish women are a bit more mellow than their Swedish sisters. I've lived with two Danes and I've lived with a non-European woman, and yes, I'd prefer the non-E. any day. But that's because I'm a lazy bastard that loves to be the boss and loves live-in room service. I have grown orders of magnitudes more living with my Danish women than with my non-E. And for the goal-thing, NW-European women are professionals, they all have careers. Their goals are not about being housewives, and they are NOT spoiled, on the contrary, a woman is ridiculed if she is dependent on a man. In general, they take responsibility for every aspect of their own life, and due to the high divorce-rate, for their kids' too. You've got it ass backwards. It is the non-E. women that lacks responsibilities and are spoilt brats. Letting your husband support you is surrendering the responsibility for your life to another person, few NW-European women would abide that. So, are you really from Bohemia? Or is it none of my business?
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Erik, perhaps you should restrict your posting to Northern European forums... Your advice doesn't seem so relevant here. And stop trying to speak on behalf of 'all men'. I think a lot of what you have said is absolute rubbish. Wanting sex and being in love are two completely separate things. At least in my world. Well, then maybe you should restrict yourself to Asian forums. I did not give advice, please note that I hijacked the thread. I responded to a girl that called my sisters sluts. That said, yes, perhaps I was thinking that someone might learn a bit from an outside perspective, but I admit this seems to have been a mistake. Tell me, if love and sex are two completely separate things, how come there are so few marriages where the couple lives lovingly together, but take their sex outside the marriage? I was in Australia this Christmas, (Gosh! Your climate is Heaven!) and it seemed to me that the couples there mixed love and sex habitually.
DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Yes, I said that this was not without problems, and much of what you say is true. But please note that I stated that ALL Danish women dream of knights. And no, Danish men does not provide white chargers and, uhm, lances, but this just makes them like any other man in the world. In fact, given the dating-race, Danish men do a real effort to put on a class act. No, it is not impossible to live with them, but it is not easy either. And yes, Danish women are probably much more empowered than American. Danish women are as different as women are everywhere, and yes, some of them are real ball breakers. (This is more common in Sweden, where 95% of all politicians, males included, openly declare themselves feminists, LOL!) Danish women are a bit more mellow than their Swedish sisters. I've lived with two Danes and I've lived with a non-European woman, and yes, I'd prefer the non-E. any day. But that's because I'm a lazy bastard that loves to be the boss and loves live-in room service. I have grown orders of magnitudes more living with my Danish women than with my non-E. And for the goal-thing, NW-European women are professionals, they all have careers. Their goals are not about being housewives, and they are NOT spoiled, on the contrary, a woman is ridiculed if she is dependent on a man. In general, they take responsibility for every aspect of their own life, and due to the high divorce-rate, for their kids' too. You've got it ass backwards. It is the non-E. women that lacks responsibilities and are spoilt brats. Letting your husband support you is surrendering the responsibility for your life to another person, few NW-European women would abide that. So, are you really from Bohemia? Or is it none of my business? No clash here but....The ones who have children are not spoiled.....but giving that there is zero zero shyt birth rate it wont be much women. But you have point. I do think this situation is mans fault. Men became lazy. It is quite hard to transit from boy to man. And nobodys helping. No initiation rituals, trials, wars Yep Im from Bohemia.
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Come to Copenhagen some time, see what I'm talking about. Copenhagen is a lot like Prague. (It's in Bohemia, no?) You'll never want to go back. As I said, I lived with a non-E. I also learned from that, particularly that being a housewife is a worthy quest, and my sisters' attitudes towards housewiving saddens me a lot, because those few that wants to be full time housewives are ostracized. Family values are shot to shyte in Denmark, it's a great shame and does a lot of damage, not only to the individual, but to society. But at the end of the day, I'd prefer it the way it is, but then, I was born here. One of the great things about dating Danish women is, that you get to sleep with an equal, and I love girls with attitude. The same with nestbuilding, it's nice that the girl is contributing to your partnership with a little more than her c*nt and a broom. And yes, the transit-thing is spot on. But that's not about women, it's about the welfare state. Granted, Danish men are perhaps less, uhm, malish than others; it's a trade off: you can't empower women and still retain all of your former powers. It is the eating-cake-and-having-it-thing.
DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Come to Copenhagen some time, see what I'm talking about. Copenhagen is a lot like Prague. (It's in Bohemia, no?) You'll never want to go back. As I said, I lived with a non-E. I also learned from that, particularly that being a housewife is a worthy quest, and my sisters' attitudes towards housewiving saddens me a lot. Family values are shot to shyte in Denmark, it's a great shame and does a lot of damage, not only to the individual, but to society. But at the end of the day, I'd prefer it the way it is, but then, I was born here. One of the great things about dating Danish women is, that you get to sleep with an equal, and I love girls with attitude. The same with nestbuilding, it's nice that the girl is contributing to your partnership with a little more than her c*nt and a broom. And yes, the transit-thing is spot on. But that's not about women, it's about the welfare state. I dont need housewife. Im OK with action Jane I dont have to be dictator. But I would like her to stay with kids at home longer than those 2 years. Or I would stay with them after that (Who makes more money goes to work) but no nursery. I think kids should stay close to mother for as long as neccesary....4 years probably. I cant get it when parents toss their kids to strange people and go to make money. To provide for him? Good college is f@ck all when you are emotionally damaged.
DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 and...Yes Prague is in Bohemia right. Ive been to Copenhagen probably 16 years ago....just a kid...wasnt looking for sex then. Beautiful city. Nice people. Drunken Swedes. Pretty blond girls. Lots of green and flags. And no riots:confused: Tak. means "thank you" right? The rest is mystery for me. Your language sounds like someone clearing throat. Lot worse than Dutch.
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Looking at this from an elevated perspective, I'd say NW-Europe is in the middle of a dramatic cultural transition. At the moment, the old societal structures are being torn down, but an alternative structure has not yet formed. In most matters, Europe is 10-15 years behind the US, but with gender relationships, Scandinavia is 10-15 years ahead. (At least! F.x. homosexuality has not been a real issue in Denmark since the early seventies). Unless the US economy goes seriously bust, this, or something akin, will happen in the US too. As you said, it is coming to Bohemia. A site like this is a loud and clear harbinger of that, you see a lot of women here that no longer accepts to have their gender identity defined by men. And unless you restrict women's access to education, I think the patriarchal society is doomed. I don't say this gleefully, because I don't know what will come after it, but I think it is inevitable.
Erik Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Tak is right. And Danish is MUCH worse than Dutch, thank you very much. The drunken Swedes are gone, they have relaxed their alcohol policy a bit. The Swedes still come here, (our girls are better looking) but they are behaving normal. Normal for Danes, that is - they still drink beer, but normally. I imagine a Bohemian will understand what I'm trying to say. I agree with you 100% on nurseries, it is another aspect of the flip side of female emancipation. With all the flip sides, I can understand why Denmark is a hard sell, it's an acquired taste I guess. And maybe the pendulum has swung too far in Denmarks case, but that doesn't mean there are not things you can learn and appreciate. And the most obvious one is sex, but here are other, more subtle perks.
DanielMadr Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Tak is right. And Danish is MUCH worse than Dutch, thank you very much. The drunken Swedes are gone, they have relaxed their alcohol policy a bit. The Swedes still come here, (our girls are better looking) but they are behaving normal. Normal for Danes, that is - they still drink beer, but normally. I imagine a Bohemian will understand what I'm trying to say. I agree with you 100% on nurseries, it is another aspect of the flip side of female emancipation. With all the flip sides, I can understand why Denmark is a hard sell, it's an acquired taste I guess. And maybe the pendulum has swung too far in Denmarks case, but that doesn't mean there are not things you can learn and appreciate. And the most obvious one is sex, but here are other, more subtle perks. Yes it struct me clear that Danish girls are prettier....the swede girls have more russian features like flat faces. We have pretty girls (perfct mix) and Slovakia even prettier and in Ukrain and Belarus (western part both) you can see Victoria Secret model every 20 meters Russian are somewhat weird. Their fathers have round faces. Beer? Yeah we have most litre per citizen on planet earth. It is pretty common to have 20 beers(10 litres) per night for one man. I like Irish beer though....dont tell on me. Im glad for women that they dont have marry fat, bald, annoying types to make through life. But I think with freedom there comes responsibility and few girls cope with that. They are told to be ambitious like man are etc. and it makes them even more insecure. They just need someone to take half a load. I think a few man in demand will have families and the rest will just have sex with each other and die. I dont care...there is plenty of people but if we want to cope with that, we should stop the welfare programs. Lets make kids who take care of us when we are old.Or bring on yourself communism (which you try so hard ) There will be no vacation abroad, no real career, no need for educating, forced labour (they call it right for labor). So no opportunities....f@ck all to do. In 70s in my country.....babyboom you cant imagine. And anticonception was not easy to get....more soldiers to beat capitalists you understand;) Those cv_nts. But it worked.
Author Hipnawtic Posted March 15, 2007 Author Posted March 15, 2007 OK. So you had no feelings for him? Why are you so hyped up that he dont call? You were giving him false hope for so long thats stringing and I dont mean false hope for mindless sex. Of course I'm a bit worried about him calling because I like him, and it's only natural that when you like someone, you worry about what they think. By rejecting him you lost him. Rejection hurts. Rejection means you dont trust him (=telling him "you jerk") or you dont find him atrractive....that hurts. He should cope with that, OK but he just didnt. You dont want pitty....fine with me. I didn't reject him though. We had a really good conversation after the whole incident, and were very effectionate when we said goodbye. I don't know how he could expect me to trust him on that level anyway since I've only been seeing him for a bit over a month. Oh he knows I find him attractive. He's a great listener too. Yeah no pity thanks, but thanks for your thoughts and input. (hence, the reason for the thread) B/c he should realize earlier, you dont like him or trust him or that you are too complicated ( only for him...you can hope ). Maybe I am a complex person, but that is what makes it interesting, and yes, I've talked to him about that too. Why would I hope I am too complicated for him? Honest? With what? That you have another guy on back burner? Thats your burden...why to confuse someone else? I never had another guy on the back burner! What part of "getting to know you" do you not understand? Anyway, who wants to jump into another relationship right away? Not me, and I think any reasonable person would appreciate that. ]No battle of sexes. I see it pretty clearly. You enjoy guys company, compliments, pursuing etc. but not to the point you are really interested in him (lack of affection). He pursue, he try to bed you. You reject him. He is confused and frustrated and he ejects. And you are suddenly interested why he could leave such a fine chic. You are too hard to get. Effort is much bigger than gain. Wow, if not sleeping w/someone (here in American culture) is playing too hard to get, then you must be use to something entirely different in Bohemia. You are quite presumptuous aren't you? How would you know how I am with guys due to one post? You act as if I have all these guys around who I am "stringing along" while trying to figure out what I want. Definately not the case. I think he will eventually call you....how you desribe him, he seems such a desperate looser. Dont forget to dump him.....to win the battle. There is no battle, and again, you are presumptuous to makes such assumptions about someone you've merely read a thread about. Obviously you are a game player with women, and that's pretty sad. Not everyone is like that. Again, thanks for your opinions and taking the time to respond. (sorry if the quotes are all messed up)
Author Hipnawtic Posted March 15, 2007 Author Posted March 15, 2007 Oh, just for clarification, when I said "this is turning into a battle of the sexes" I was speaking about the nature of the posts on this thread...it's like men vs women.
Author Hipnawtic Posted March 15, 2007 Author Posted March 15, 2007 Yeah, I think I'm done w/this post, some interesting perspectives, but it's all good. Thanks everyone for your input.
bridget_jones Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Why do you choose to pick on me when a couple other posters, including Island girl, agreed. Waiting for a relationship to develop a month or longer is not torturing men, it is not Victorian ideals, it had nothing to do with God, it is not using sex as a bargaining chip....it is getting to know someone and developing a connection before having intimate relations. By your logic, the fact that I don't have sex within three dates makes me this Victorian princess, Bible beater or whatever. ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT I LIKE TO WAIT A MONTH OR TWO, AFTER DEVELOPING A TRUE EMOTIONAL CONNECTION WITH A MAN AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, BEFORE HAVING INTIMATE RELATIONS WITH THEM. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, IT, FOR ME, OFFERS A MORE SATISFYING AND DEEPER CONNECTION FOR ME WHICH I WANT. I NEVER SAID I DEPLORE WOMEN WHO CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX RIGHT AWAY. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THEIR CHOICES, BUT I FEEL THEY ARE MISSING OUT ON A CERTAIN SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP DEVELOPING. I read a book called HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU, written by a MAN and he agrees that for a true connection to develop between a man and a woman, he suggests waiting 2 months. He did that with his wife, he just wanted to get to know her well, he was absolutely crazy about her, and now they have a wonderful, close relationship with his wife 8 years later. I think this is the dream that people want, and it is possible. It's not some crazy dream that is only in movies. This is not stringing people along, it is not being cruel, it is simply GETTING TO KNOW SOMEONE WELL AND STARTING A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. THIS IS NOT SOME ODD CONCEPT. I repeat, Erik, you are WHACK, you totally misread my posts. And the way you can stereotype Danish women into one category is so stupid. I'm sure there are ones who have waited at least a month or longer because they wanted to get to know their boyfriends on an emotional level before 'giving him some' as you put it. i seriously think it's you as a man who has been rejected by women quite a bit which has given you this attitude that women owe men to have sex right away.
Recommended Posts