How long should I wait to have sex?

[Erik]

I'm so sorry that you haven't felt true love with a woman, it's obvious if you think sex has to be conditional for love.

 

It is. Read my posts again. Love without sex is perverse, you are deluded if you think otherwise. And this is not my thread, stop making assumptions about my love life.

 

Did I forget about STD? Jeez... What an excuse! The guy is 21, how much of a risk could he be?

[Erik]

And you didn't comment on the hypothetical guy withholding his emotions as you would withhold sex.

[bridget_jones]

what you are saying is that the original poster should feel guilty because she won't have sex with a guy she's been seeing a month, and this guy has not even made it clear to her that he is interested in a monogamous, serious relationship with her.

You are 'giving up' yourself to someone if you give in to him when you yourself aren't ready for a sexual relationship.

You fall in love first, then have sex, I don't understand why this is such an odd concept. You can have a deep emotional bond with someone for a month, two, three months...before having sex, and it will be the most awesome sex you've ever had because it's a true emotional bond. You've also had time to establish trust, which is important, gotten to know enough about their character as a human being. I REALLY want to know this person, and a few dates, or even a month, isn't enough time to fully know them enough.

Your way of thinking is why STDs are such a problem, because people think it's the way to go to be free with their sexuality right away after meeting someone without getting to know them first. Three dates isn't enough for me to know enough about a man to sleep with him.

[bridget_jones]

you take a month, or two, or whatever time you are comfortable with to get to know them emotionally and those feelings come out. It's not 'withholding' sex, it's waiting for the relationship to develop to a mature level.

You're highly naive about STDs if you think a 21 year old guy couldn't have had many, many sexual partners in his past. Many youth these days are starting at age 12 having sex. You have know way of knowing if he's going on a date with you after having had sex with some other chick, thus the point of waiting until you really know the guy is really important to a lot of women, and it's actually important to a lot of MEN to have an emotional bond and really know them first, too.

the original poster should not feel guilty, she has not done anything wrong, in fact I applaud her.

[Erik]

What you are saying is that the original poster should feel guilty because she won't have sex with a guy she's been seeing a month, and this guy has not even made it clear to her that he is interested in a monogamous, serious relationship with her.

 

Well, maybe he doesn't really believe that SHE want's a serious relationship. I'm saying she's the rational person in this game, she must break with him if she don't intend to sleep with him, because sex is definitely expected from his part.

 

You are 'giving up' yourself to someone if you give in to him when you yourself aren't ready for a sexual relationship. You fall in love first, then have sex.

 

That's where we disagree. I don't really buy all that stuff about true and solemn emotions, or rather, I've only found those in a sexual relationship.

 

I don't think we'll agree on this one, so I'll back off. Do what you please with this guy, hypnawtic, but be aware you are playing with his emotions.

 

Before I go, I'd like to correct a misunderstanding concerning Danish girls (and boys.)

 

A girl is not EXPECTED to have sex at any time. What she is expected to is to is to back off if she doesn't want sex. You don't sound like a person who would believe this, but Danish girls party with guys because they think sex is fun! Would you believe the depravity! But you are woefully wrong in suggesting Danish girls are easy; on the contrary. They date for the same reasons guys do, for sex. That means they are picky as hell. Actually we don't date the way Americans do, it is be considered awfully whimpy, kinda like online dating. To score, a guy has to walk up to a girl in a bar (or whereever) and convince her face to face that she could have fun with him. It's a rat's race, really. For the girls too, they compete just as much as us guys.

[bridget_jones]

I'm sure there are Danish women who have self-respect and caution with getting STDs and don't do that. There are a lot of slutty women here, too, and all over, it's not just a Danish thing.

[Erik]

I'm sure there are Danish women who have self-respect and caution with getting STDs and don't do that. There are a lot of slutty women here, too, and all over, it's not just a Danish thing.

 

Have a nice life, Bridget. I guess there is a reason for your handle, and from where I am sitting, you are the whore, you treat sex as merchandise.

[bridget_jones]

No, it's about treating sex as something that goes with love and self-respect. I just don't give it away like all those Danish women do, after a date or two (or less). I feel sorry for those women, they don't understand how special making love is, and they have no self respect, giving their bodies to someone right off without developing anything of substance emotionally or intellectually with them. And I'm willing to bet that if it's true what you say, STDs run rampant among those women and tourists to your country beware of the locals!

[IpAncA]

Bridget, we are on completely different levels. I'm not saying that sex is something you should "give up" just for the asking, but you shouldn't use it as a test or a reward.

 

The way you are treating this boy is cruel, hipnawtic. I realise you don't see it that way, but it is. So he says some stupid things, but that's because he is in love. You'd say he was in a runt, but with guys the difference is really too small to matter. You won't know if he loves you until you sleep with him, because until then, all you'll see of him is a testoterone-crazed fool that can't wipe his own ass for love. As I said earlier, if sex is completely out of the question, let him go. If you feel sex is so foreign to your relationship, it was not meant to be anyway, but you can't expect a crazy man to see that. You have to take that decision. And not only take the decision, but act it too. If you tell him you care for him but don't want sex with him, he'll never understand. You'll have to refuse to see him.

 

No it's not. If she wants to be in a relationship first then there is nothing wrong with that. It's her choice but if this guy can't wait and doesn't care then she should lose the guy.

 

And if he was in love don't you think he would have wanted to become exclusive with her? Some love that is.

 

Hipnawtic, give this boy some, it won't kill you.

 

Sex isn't everything Erik. Do you go around pressuring women to do something they don't want to do?

[Erik]

Sex isn't everything.

 

Exactly! You guys are romanticising sex way out of proportions. If you are single and unattached, sex will not hurt you, there should be no need for pressure. Sometimes you get hurt, yes, that's life for you, but more often that not, it is not the sex that hurts you, but the emotions. It goes without saying, that everybody has the right to say no. But in that case, and after two-three weekly dates for a month, if you still feel sex is such a precious commodity that indulging the guy would hurt you, then maybe you should let that guy go. Saving your honey for the great day does not make the honey sweeter for neither part, believe me. It only drives the male crazy. I repeat, she's 25 and this is not her first relationship. And this guy is 21, what do you expect? I also repeat that she is playing mind games. Maybe all the fancy talk about true love making sex superfluous works for girls, but it makes no sense to a boy, whether American or Danish. And you damn well know that! So tell this boy off or stop playing games with him.

 

I still haven't got an answer: should the boy consider opening up for his feelings as something he should not 'give up' until the girl had proved her commitment?

[IpAncA]

Exactly! You guys are romanticising sex way out of proportions. If you are single and unattached, sex will not hurt you, there should be no need for pressure.

 

Some people don't just give it up and think like you do. For some people sex isn't something they do on a regular basis. Some people need commitement or some kind of connection and some don't. It depends on the person does it not?

 

I also repeat that she is playing mind games.

 

Why because she wants to have sex only when she feels the connections like she mentioned in her 1st post? How is that playing games? She told the guy that's she not ready. What part of that does the male brain not understand? If he can't wait then yes he should leave this girl alone and find someone else who is easier.

 

Not everything thinks the same way.

 

I still haven't got an answer: should the boy consider opening up for his feelings as something he should not 'give up' until the girl had proved her commitment?

 

If that's what the guy wants to do then so be it. Some people only open up when they trust someone or get to know them better. Some don't.

 

For me I take my time. I don't rush things. I let things fall into place and that works and does work for me.

[Hipnawtic]

This guy is feeding you emotionally and you have no intention of ever giving anything back.You just want to bask in his adoration, and if you give it to him, as you well know, that nice, unquestioning adoration will be replaced with something a little more equal and you don't want that.

 

 

Have mercy, please let this poor sod go!

Honestly I don't understand where you get an idea that I am feeding him emotionally Erik. Yeah, maybe I could just sleep with him and find out if that's only what he wants. I do believe that he likes me and is really interested, but I think that from his past experiences he believes that a "relationship" is "fun, uncomplicated and filled w/lots of sex", that's what he told me that night. I think a relationship can be that, but relationships have their complications at some point. I'm starting to think that maybe he has never encountered a girl like me that he really likes, and so was somewhat shocked by my denial to have sex with him. ?

 

The main thing that gets me is that he told me "I can't fall in love with someone unless I have sex with them." Well, I guess that's fair enough in ways, but it's a little sad too. I think our age differences must be noted here as far as experience in relationships.

 

And the reason I haven't felt a "deep emotional connection" that I desire is because I don't feel I know him well enough. Maybe that type of connection can only come once you've slept w/someone and developed the relationship from there, but I want to feel I know him enough to sleep with him as well as know we are exclusive. I don't think that's too much to ask, do you? Anyway, he did also tell me that he really does like me and would be sad not to see me anymore.

 

I talked to my friend, and she told me that from what it sounds like, she thinks he's trying to "pressure" me into a relationship (being exclusive with him) based on how much we've hung out and what took place the other night as explained above. Maybe not, but I do think I know him enought to tell that he is interested in me, not just sex for itself. He is a really handsome guy, and we both know he could go out and get it if he really wanted it (and we talked about that). I think what he did was romantic and a sweet attempt to sleep with me for whatever that's worth. I did tell him I do want to have sex with him, but I'm not ready at this point. I'm not playing games with him, that would be messed up, I'm just being honest.

[Hipnawtic]

Erik, really I appreciate your insight here it is actually very helpful. Having a degree in communication, I really do agree with you that men and women express emotions differently, and that if a guy really is interested in a girl, he may want to have sex in order for him to become more emotional with her. That's why I have questions about whether a deep emotional connection can be developed with out sex, especially for a guy. Trust me, I DO NOT want a wimpy ass whipped guy. I want a real relationship though that's fair and equal, and yes, fun! He was very clear about his feelings, and I honestly believe him. I guess it just comes down to me being ready and feeling like I will be respected, but I guess you're right, not matter what I won't know until I do it, and I'm definately not trying to wait until marriage. Trust me, I want to, lol. So, I agree with you in a lot of ways, and of course being a woman, I don't always see it the way a man would.

 

So, you really believe that outside the context of your culture, that it would be difficult for him to show me how much he cares with out having sex with him?

[letter-to-elise]

I thought I'd just add my two cents... Since I am a Danish girl!

 

Erik is not telling lies about Danish girls or boys. Danish girls have sex because they think sex is fun. I have sex because I think it is fun and I would not date a guy for months without having sex with him. Like Erik I would find it a strange and incomplete relationship.

Does it always work out? Is it always a great experience? No! Do I regret having sex with them because of that? No!!! I have certain preferences when it comes to sex and I would rather find out sooner than later if the guy is capable of living up to my expectations. What's the point of falling in love with him if we are on completely different levels sexually?

 

Denmark is a Scandinavian country. We have completely different moral standards. In Denmark it is morally completely acceptable for a girl to sleep with a boy on the first date. I am currently dating a boy I had drunken sex with the first night we met - he is a great guy and I am no slut! In America, you have other standards and I respect that. It does not make you frigid or unpassionate. I expect the same respect from you (bridget_jones): We are different, but we are not slutty! (And btw the solution to STD is not abstinence but protection!)

 

It all boils down to one thing: You should only have sex with a guy if you want to have sex with him. If you - for one reason or the other - do not feel ready, don't!!! Sex is not something you give - sex is something you share and it takes two (sometimes more ) to tango.

If you don't want to, he can buy gallons of wine and light all the candles in the world - it does not change a thing!

[Hipnawtic]

Bridget, we are on completely different levels. I'm not saying that sex is something you should "give up" just for the asking, but you shouldn't use it as a test or a reward.

 

The way you are treating this boy is cruel, hipnawtic. I realise you don't see it that way, but it is. So he says some stupid things, but that's because he is in love. You'd say he was in a runt, but with guys the difference is really too small to matter. You won't know if he loves you until you sleep with him, because until then, all you'll see of him is a testoterone-crazed fool that can't wipe his own ass for love. As I said earlier, if sex is completely out of the question, let him go. If you feel sex is so foreign to your relationship, it was not meant to be anyway, but you can't expect a crazy man to see that. You have to take that decision. And not only take the decision, but act it too. If you tell him you care for him but don't want sex with him, he'll never understand. You'll have to refuse to see him.

 

What makes you think he is in love? Did you miss the part where I said he specifically told me that he "can't fall in love with someone unless he sleeps with them" ? But, I definately have felt he is somewhat in love with me just by how he is around me, a feeling. Anyway like I said I told him I DO WANT to have sex, just not ready yet, and I'd like to be exclusive. Is that pressuring him too much to being exclusive, or does he want sex w/me because HE WANTS to be exclusive? How should I handle that aspect? I don't want him to think I'm trying to pressure him into being exclusive, but I guess at the end of the day, that will reveal itself.

[IpAncA]

"can't fall in love with someone unless he sleeps with them" ?

 

I still can't believe guys are still using that.

[Erik]

She told the guy that's she not ready. What part of that does the male brain not understand?

 

The 'not ready'-part. He probably heard 'extremely horny.' How could he not? He's 21 for heavens sake! Have you no mercy?

 

Hipnawtic, I am very happy to read your last post, I'm suddenly much more optimistic about this thing, so I shall refrain from further lectures. Except, I wish you would ponder the parallel I suggested about how a guy could use his feelings as something to give or withhold like you do with sex.

[IpAncA]

The 'not ready'-part. He probably heard 'extremely horny.' How could he not? He's 21 for heavens sake! Have you no mercy?

 

Guess not.

[letter-to-elise]

does he want sex w/me because HE WANTS to be exclusive? How should I handle that aspect? I don't want him to think I'm trying to pressure him into being exclusive, but I guess at the end of the day, that will reveal itself.

 

There is no way of knowing, Hipnawtic. Maybe he is in love with you, maybe he thinks he is in love with you, maybe he pretends he is in love with you to have sex with you. You can wait and see, at the risk of falling more in love with him yourself, or you can just go for it (the sex) and see what happens. Take a risk. Another approach is to talk with him. Tell him that you want to be exclusive and ask him what he wants. Asking is not pressuring. And you can still wait with having sex with him until you are ready.

[Erik]

What makes you think he is in love? Did you miss the part where I said he specifically told me that he "can't fall in love with someone unless he sleeps with them" ?

 

I can tell he is in love, because he is madly horny and therefor he THINKS he is in love. It is very real to him and he can't separate the things. So because he is unable to do that, he thinks you can't either, and therefore conclude that you do not love him, and that DRIVES HIM NUTS! And yes, he says a lot of bollocks o try to get you to drop your pants, it's actually a rather pathetic trick, don't you think?

 

Hi Elise. Du må undskylde hvis jeg generaliserede lidt voldsomt om dig og dine søstre, det var kærligt ment.

 

Sorry about the gobblydook...

[Erik]

OK, I'll trot out my tired old analogy: As the saying goes, the reason women have tits is that nobody would speak to them otherwise. Talking means nothing to a man. So suppose he said that he loved you, but talking to you was too strenuous until you had a real relationship going, would you believe that he really loved you?

[Hipnawtic]

OK, I'll trot out my tired old analogy: As the saying goes, the reason women have tits is that nobody would speak to them otherwise. Talking means nothing to a man. So suppose he said that he loved you, but talking to you was too strenuous until you had a real relationship going, would you believe that he really loved you?

 

I think you're kind of discounting men, aren't you?! Men may see the world differently and communicate differently in general, but men and women are both humans, and therefore being essentially human means they both communicate through language and have emotions, so talking has to mean SOMETHING to a guy.

 

Also, what do you suppose happens after I have sex with him and a "relationship" develops? He will suddenly become a clear minded human who talking magically means something to? Or does he just continue to not care for talking and only speak sex? Sex is love and communication to a man in a relationship? Have you ever been in love? I guess love can be different things to different people, but don't you acknowledge the basic idea of caring for someone with out bringing sex into it????

 

I've never really questioned whether or not he likes me because I'm sure of that. I'm just questioning (among other things) the right time to have sex, and apparently men say NOW and women say WAIT. So I guess this just leaves me where I began, more or less confused. Really though, I haven't heard from him since Monday night, so maybe he'll just say screw it and never call me, I guess we'll see...

[Erik]

I think you're kind of discounting men, aren't you?! Men may see the world differently and communicate differently in general, but men and women are both humans, and therefore being essentially human means they both communicate through language and have emotions, so talking has to mean SOMETHING to a guy.

 

Yes. Of course. I'm using my broadest brush, I was getting a little desperate. In general, boys are really much more romantic than girls, only those feelings are closely connected to sex, or - I can only speak for myself, mind you - post-sex chat anyway. I know I've been focusing narrowly on the carnal sides, but men can be nice guys too. And love as good as any woman if not better. As I said, men are the romantic ones.

 

Also, what do you suppose happens after I have sex with him and a "relationship" develops? He will suddenly become a clear minded human who talking magically means something to? Or does he just continue to not care for talking and only speak sex?

 

He will probably be very fixated on sex for some time, and as Elise said, there's no real way of knowing. Withholding sex is not a way to gain knowledge, anyway. But most guys sober up a bit after a while. Are you sure he is seeing other girls? He sound like a virgin to me.

 

 

Have you ever been in love?

I hate to fob you off with this, but this is another cultural thing. Speaking American, yes, I've been in love many times. In Danish, the word has a totally different meaning, very grave and not a little sinister, and if you asked me in Danish, I'd have to say I don't really know. If I had, I suppose I would have been happily married now.

 

I guess love can be different things to different people, but don't you acknowledge the basic idea of caring for someone with out bringing sex into it????

 

Yes. Caring. Loving, I dunno. Perhaps. I know there are some divine human beings that seems to be able to do that, but from what I've seen and heard in my life, I'm very sceptical. A woman could do it, no problem. But not a man. He loves with his d*ick, if you'll excuse the broad brush again.

 

I've never really questioned whether or not he likes me because I'm sure of that. I'm just questioning (among other things) the right time to have sex (...)

 

Yes, that was what made me so optimistic about one of your latter posts. I was getting the impression that you had decided to hold him at a distance until you were formally engaged. So when you do reach a decision, take my word that sex means as much to men as communication does to women, and this guy may be an a*hole, but not for craving sex. Pressuring you is definitely not nice, but you are the older one. Forgive him, for the knows not what he does. I hope you tell him away, but that's just me. The important part is that you decide.

[Hipnawtic]

Yes. Of course. I'm using my broadest brush, I was getting a little desperate. In general, boys are really much more romantic than girls, only those feelings are closely connected to sex, or - I can only speak for myself, mind you - post-sex chat anyway. I know I've been focusing narrowly on the carnal sides, but men can be nice guys too. And love as good as any woman if not better. As I said, men are the romantic ones.

 

 

Yeah, well that's exactly why I said that I appreciated the whole wine and candles thing, and I was sure to tell him that! I think he was genuinely making an effort to be romantic, that's my gut feeling and I'm sticking to it!

 

 

He will probably be very fixated on sex for some time, and as Elise said, there's no real way of knowing. Withholding sex is not a way to gain knowledge, anyway. But most guys sober up a bit after a while. Are you sure he is seeing other girls? He sound like a virgin to me.

 

 

He's not seeing other girls, he was clear about that AND being tested for STDs... So then after I had sex with him the first time, I should just continutally give it to him whenever he wants it? See what I'm saying here? You have to start to consider your own respect...

 

 

I hate to fob you off with this, but this is another cultural thing. Speaking American, yes, I've been in love many times. In Danish, the word has a totally different meaning, very grave and not a little sinister, and if you asked me in Danish, I'd have to say I don't really know. If I had, I suppose I would have been happily married now.

 

Oh trust me, you're not fobbing me. I'm not looking for movie classic American cultural love, I just mean really care for someone in the general sense of love.... I think love is something that develops over time, you have to truly know someone to really love them, and you can be in love with the idea of someone i.e. he may be in love w/me based on the idea of me now and his sexual passion for me, but that all changes inevitably... no?

 

 

Yes. Caring. Loving, I dunno. Perhaps. I know there are some divine human beings that seems to be able to do that, but from what I've seen and heard in my life, I'm very sceptical. A woman could do it, no problem. But not a man. He loves with his d*ick, if you'll excuse the broad brush again.

 

If a man loves w/his ---- then how can men be the romantic ones? I guess you mean that they are romantic because romance = sex = love! LOL!!! That's crazy. Forget the love question though b/c I never expected him to be in love with me to have sex, he mentioned it and really got me thinking. What I would and DO want is a nice reasonable connection and enjoyment of a person MORE THAN a physical attraction i.e. connecting mentally, having some of the same ideas etc, and of course more of that will and must come in the time of a relationship! It is apparent that we get a long anyway...and probably that I really like him, or I wouldn't have come to this website and created this thread.

 

 

Yes, that was what made me so optimistic about one of your latter posts. I was getting the impression that you had decided to hold him at a distance until you were formally engaged. So when you do reach a decision, take my word that sex means as much to men as communication does to women, and this guy may be an a*hole, but not for craving sex. Pressuring you is definitely not nice, but you are the older one. Forgive him, for the knows not what he does. I hope you tell him away, but that's just me. The important part is that you decide.

 

No way, I would never hold a guy at a distance until engagement. I agree, people need different levels satisfied in order be happy and healthy and sex is one of them. You can damn well be sure that if a girl is dating a guy and NO SEX is the rule, he is satisfying that drive in some other way. Yeah, I can forgive him b/c when he "pressured" me, which wasn't even that much, I definately felt a lot of it was his inexperience, and I realize that's something I have to expect w/a younger guy in general. What do you mean "I hope you tell him away"? When I talk to him again, I'm definately going to make myself clear and tell him I didn't appreciate being pressured at all, right?

 

So, you are suggesting that now I run to him and sleep with him?

[DanielMadr]

Ive been a little too diplomatic in my first reply probably.

 

You, having a degree in communications, should know that people dont read mind. You were confusing him....with your words and actions. You gave him a test 'I cancel the sex on the last possible moment to see if he respects me enough' test and he didnt passed. And now you pitty.

It could be he was only after sex.

It could be he is inexperinced with dealing with this kind of behaviour.

It could be you hurt his pride. It was rejection after all.

It could be he was humiliated and offended by lack of trust.

 

What would you think if a guy witdraw from sex with you on very last moment?

 

Yeah right women are more complicated. But some are too structured than others and he has no PhD and he probably even doesnt read Cosmo.

 

And these situations are ideal for date rape. Rape is about power not about lust (in most cases).

 

You were talking about blackmailing. He stating "I cant fall in love without sex"....lame blackamil for sex. But you stated "I cant have sex without relationship"....lame blackmail for relationship;)

 

Please try a little empathy.

btw only major players will pass your "tests"...they know the right answers....

 

You: Hold on please. I think we are moving too fast. I cant have sex without knowing Im in relationship.

 

Him: I thought we were in relationship in the very right moment we kissed honey. But sure take your time. Lets just cuddle you little coward.

 

You: :love:

 

Him: muhehehehehe (evil grin)