Low Libido can be Normal

[JamesM]

I am reading a book that I find very enlightening. It is called "Perfectly Normal: Living and Loving with a Low Libido."

 

It is an eye opener to me. It is hard to explain the many things this lady says, but basically, some people have lower libidos than others and that is okay. Wait...before you tell me that this is nothing mind shattering. What opened my eyes was how I have been handling my wife's low libido may be wrong and actually damaging our sex life. No, I have not been rude or angry, but by treating her as if she is something is wrong with her, I actually make her less interested in even having any sex. Why try when she is so inadequate?

 

And now I know some will say I told you so, but seriously, I have assumed that my wife should be as sexual as I am. So, I approach it that way. NO, I don't say it, but it must show. So, instead of assuming that my wife can only enjoy sex when she has orgasms or when it is long, I am now going to assume that she can enjoy it many ways. I know, I know...women like sex without orgasms. My brain knows this, but in reality, my heart is thinking that if she doesn't orgasm, then either I have not my job or she isn't enjoying sex. She has told me differently, but I truthfully haven't believed her.

 

Another thing I learned is that she should have the right to say no. Strange as that sounds, when I face the facts...I do not allow her to freely say no. Sure she says it alot...or she did when I asked her, but when she said no, then I responded in a way that showed my disapproval, disappointment or rejection. Never have I simply said, "That is okay. We can do it another time when you will enjoy it"...and really meant it.

 

I recommend this book as a good way to understand what your wives and girlfriends with low libidos feel. There are so many things in it that described my wife. I am not done yet, but it is giving me a new outlook on how she feels and I hope to have a new way of dealing with sex. And yes, I hope this means we will have more sex.

 

Interesting note...one thing this author said is that many times men keep asking in hopes that this time, they may score. In reality if they knew that perhaps once a week, they could have sex, it would be enough. But the wife thinking that the husband always wants sex never gets that message. She thinks that once a week will mean that he will want it more. The biggest problem that couples with mismatched libidos have is miscommunication.

 

So, I may not be explaining all that this book may do, but I must recommend it to anyone who is frustrated with their wife's low libido. I think it will give a good insight into her mind and how it works.

[new_stella]

I tend to agree with most of what you said. Being more or less sexual is not good, bad or even normal per se.

 

But one thing that you said doesn’t sound right:

I know, I know...women like sex without orgasms.

 

It would be interesting to hear what other women here have to say about it, but I think this is wrong.

 

I mean, you can enjoy sexual activities without an orgasm (both men and women can). It is pleasant. But sex without orgasm is not nearly as satisfying as sex with orgasm. At the end of the day you still want to get off!

 

If you expect sex without orgasm next time, no wonder that you can take it or leave it. You don’t have that feeling that you ‘just have to have it’.

 

Sex is more than just ‘pleasant’.

[MoonGirl]

I agree with James and the book. I am a woman who enjoys sex with and without orgasms. Sometimes I want to have sex, but have no desire to have an orgasm. I know that must sound VERY strange to most men. But I guess you can sort of equate it to snuggling or getting a nice massage. It just feels really good and sensual even without the orgasm.

 

I also want to add that if there is pressure to have an orgasm each time a woman has sex, the sex may be MUCH less satisfying because of that pressure. It's nicer to just be able to go with the flow and enjoy yourself.

[new_stella]

I could be just me then.

[quankanne]

It just feels really good and sensual

 

that is the whole lovemaking process, to me, with or without orgasm. Yes, there are times I want to hit that high point, but it's really about the tactileness and closeness that sex represents. That's extremely hard to communicate to partners who think women want their rocks off right away just like they do. And it drives me crazy when my husband (who has the low sex-drive in our relationship) thinks that this whole point of my wanting to fool around with him. It's not about me getting off, but the sensuality of being naked together ...

[RecordProducer]

It is called "Perfectly Normal: Living and Loving with a Low Libido."

Well, if you put it that way then living and loving with low level of intelligence is also perfectly normal!

 

We're talking about compatibility. Actually, that title is bad news: it means that the low-libidoed () women don't have to change anything, that you have to accept their mental and physical structire the way it is.

 

It is an eye opener to me.

Are you talking about one-eyed Dick? Popeye?

 

my heart is thinking that if she doesn't orgasm, then either I have not my job or she isn't enjoying sex.

Because when you know that someone eats like a pig, but only took a bite of your cake, it means they're either not hungry or your cake sucks. In this case, it means your wife is not horny. You mentioned in your other threads that she is very orgasmic when she is horny.

 

 

Another thing I learned is that she should have the right to say no.

Do you have a right to say "no" to her "no"?

 

It just feels really good and sensual even without the orgasm.

I must say that while the vaginal orgasms are stronger than the clitoral ones, I totally don't care about reaching them. I know I can practice and read about how to achieve them and make it happen every time, I just don't care. I've had maybe 20 vaginal orgasms inmy whole life. However, the clitoral O's - I just feel the pressure in my clit, I have to get off several times during each intercourse. I don't expect from my partner to make it happen, I take care of it myself (choose a certain position, lead his hand, etc.). My orgasms are MY business.

 

I also want to add that if there is pressure to have an orgasm each time a woman has sex, the sex may be MUCH less satisfying because of that pressure. It's nicer to just be able to go with the flow and enjoy yourself.

This is very true! My ex-husband didn't believe me when I told him I came so I started HIDING my orgasms. It pissed me off that he discarded my "compliments" so I withdrew them. He basically accused me of lying so I decided to stop "pretending" I had orgasms in front of him. I wanted to have them for myself and not be observed. It made me feel like I had the orgasms for HIM and not for myself.

[michelangelo]

 

I must say that while the vaginal orgasms are stronger than the clitoral ones, I totally don't care about reaching them. I know I can practice and read about how to achieve them and make it happen every time, I just don't care. I've had maybe 20 vaginal orgasms inmy whole life. However, the clitoral O's - I just feel the pressure in my clit, I have to get off several times during each intercourse. I don't expect from my partner to make it happen, I take care of it myself (choose a certain position, lead his hand, etc.). My orgasms are MY business.

 

This is very true! My ex-husband didn't believe me when I told him I came so I started HIDING my orgasms. It pissed me off that he discarded my "compliments" so I withdrew them. He basically accused me of lying so I decided to stop "pretending" I had orgasms in front of him. I wanted to have them for myself and not be observed. It made me feel like I had the orgasms for HIM and not for myself.

 

So are you saying that the vaginal orgasms feel better, but not enough to strive to have 'em?

 

Or that the several clitoral orgasms instead more than make it in satisfying your need to climax?

 

And yes, it is totally foreign to me to want to make love and not to want to climax.

[loggrad98]

I think this is the biggest gathering of ultra-orgasmic women on the planet.

 

My wife and I went through some counseling early in our marriage because of emotional abuse she suffered in her childhood and late teens. In the course of counseling my wifes issues with sex were discusses, among them the fact that she could not orgasm. In fact she never did until her sister finally gave her a vibrator for her birthday one year (now she has orgasmed with me during intercourse as well). We were meeting with a family/couples/sex therapist who came highly recommended. We asked if her inability to orgasm was due to her emotional issues. My wife could get very close, but then she got frustrated that it did not go over the hump (pardon the pun =) to a full-blown orgasm. The therapist told us that it is far more common for women to NOT be able to orgasm (at all) during intercourse than women who regularly orgasm during intercourse. She said she did not feel that my wifes inability to orgasm was anything more than the fact that she is in the majority of women who cannot or have a very difficult time experiencing orgasm during intercourse. (my wife did an informal poll at a high-school reunion with about 12 of her friends and found that only one of them had regular orgasm during sex, one or 2 others did now and then and the rest hardly ever or never had)

 

As far as libido goes, my wife and I have struck a happy balance between accepting her saying "no" and her wanting to be with me to please me as well, after lots of talking about the same things james brought up. Our libidos are mismatched and we had to do some work to find that balance. It has helped resurrect our sex life in more ways than one and she has been able to have orgasms during intercourse, something we thought she may never be able to experience.

 

So my hat's off to you ladies who are so orgasmic that you can actually expend time and energy thinking about the difference between vaginal and clitoral orgasms and can decide whether to have one or not during intercourse. Be happy because many more women will never experience what you have and might take for granted.

[RecordProducer]

So are you saying that the vaginal orgasms feel better, but not enough to strive to have 'em?

 

I don't know how to explain it, but I'll give you an example: I think sushi is much tastier than milk, but I don't care about eating sushi every day, while I drink milk every day. My body needs milk.

[michelangelo]

I think i get that, but aren't there days where you've slurped some milk and you just gotta have some sushi so you head out to the store and get some?

[JamesM]

Thanks, loggrad98. You have stated the problem and solution well.

 

I have gone the route of an ultimatum. I have "solved" (I think) the many possible medical and physical reasons. And still her libido is less than mine. Yes, at least we have had sex more often, but she doesn't like it always for the same reasons as I. And we do not have it as often as I would like. So, I have a choice...accept thing, fix things, or leave things. Since things are not bad enough to leave and I cannot accept things, I will still try to "fix" things.

 

This book opened my eyes quite a bit. I can see where I may actually defeat the very objective that I try to accomplish. So, like you, I am going to go for the "meet in the middle" philosophy. Knowing my wife, I may actually get her closer to my side this way, than by giving her the ultimatum (which worked for about four months).

 

BTW, if there are any low libido women out there who read this thread, I recommend the book. And please, please....give me a PM. I would love to hear your input as to ways that helped you "enjoy" and "want" more sex. You may be able to help me do things so much better than I am doing now.

[Mr. Lucky]

James:

 

Having gone through this in my first marriage, I see a bit of a Catch-22 here. My ex, upon the 2X a week that I tried to approach her, said something to the effect that I was always pressuring her for sex. And yet (I'm sure you see this coming), if I didn't make some kind of effort, we had sex once a month. Outside of the bedroom, what had been a pretty good relationship was slowly poisoned by the lack of intimacy.

 

I guess this leads me to the following question - what good does it do you to now have a label to put on your W's libido? It doesn't change the underlying disparity in expectations...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

James:

I guess this leads me to the following question - what good does it do you to now have a label to put on your W's libido? It doesn't change the underlying disparity in expectations...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

As you may have read my story and I did respond to yours, you know that I have gone to one end of the spectrum to the other. I thought I had completely solved the issue, but I was wrong.

 

It is not so much a label as an understanding of her libido/sex drive. When once I thought it was only her and not me, I felt I had zero control over the problem. Now...for the present...I feel I actually have some control. I could easily be wrong.

 

From this book, I gained more than a label and understanding. I gained some new direction. First, as I mentioned...if she feels that every time she is asked for sex she is given no option but yes, then what kind of asking is that? Obviously, as you found out, when we as guys rarely get a yes, we pressure at every possibility. This makes every encounter with her an opportunity for sex in her mind. Even when we then do not mean to pressure, she interprets it as such. For example, when my wife and I kiss and she shows more passion, I immediately think..."This is my chance." After a few times of this, she feels that she cannot even kiss me without an overture for sex. There are other ways I have communicated to her that sex with her is more important that time with her...unintentionally.

 

What can I do to change things? I am not completely sure. I refuse to give up. Yes, we may have mismatched libidos...that I can accept. What I cannot accept is that one libido will decide the other libido's frequency of sex. For awhile, I had the "upper hand" it appeared...now she seems to once again completely rule the amount of sex.

 

That is why I would like to communicate with women (with low libidos) who have had this problem with their husbands. What ways have you solved the low libido problem? And what ways would you have liked the problem solved...if it is in the past. I think I will ask that in a new thread.

[portableversion]

"i always assumed that my wife should be just as sexual as I am"

 

SURE! You are a MD right?? MD's like you have always assumed women should be like men, and indeed, held MEN up as the model for humanity and how humans SHOULD be, and in fact made scientific 'conclusions' bases upon the anatomy and responses of males.

 

Here's a SUGGESTION. Instead of EXPECTING your wife to be LIKE YOU, how about at least TRY to become a LITTLE BIT like her?

[tanbark813]

It sounds like a book that just offers rationalizations for women who don't know how to please men.

[a4a]

It sounds like a book that just offers rationalizations for women who don't know how to please men.

 

Do you think they make a book that rationalizes that I don't like doing the laundry too?

 

Let's all write books about why we don't meet our partners needs..... for that matter write one that explains why I don't want to pay my electric bill too.

 

I have emotional issues paying my electrical bill.

 

For cripes sake..... having sex is not the end of the world in regards to making a partner happy..... not like you are asking them to reshingle the roof alone once a week..........

 

stick the dick in your mouth, make him happy, and it will be over in 3 minutes!

 

how is 3 minutes asking too much? As long as he treats you well..... I am happy to suck the weeny.... or I could rub his back.... or cook him dinner...

weeny suckin' is quicker so I opt for that.

[StayClose]

There's another book out called "I'd Rather Eat Chocolate: Learning to Love My Low Libido" in which the writer imagines an Oprah show with men uphappy with their strong libidos wanted to lower their libidos to save their marraiges.

 

Personally, there have been times in my life when I've wished there was a way to do that. After all if you're unhappy that you're not having enough sex, and you're unable to have more sex, another solution would be to not want sex so much.

 

Has anyone successfully done that? Lower you drive and expectations for sex, and have absolutely no resentment or anger about it?

[tanbark813]

Do you think they make a book that rationalizes that I don't like doing the laundry too?

 

Let's all write books about why we don't meet our partners needs..... for that matter write one that explains why I don't want to pay my electric bill too.

 

Hell yeah. It could be a whole series. "Honey, I'd like to cuddle but I just can't do it WITH ALL THIS PRESSURE!!"

[StayClose]

"i always assumed that my wife should be just as sexual as I am"

 

SURE! You are a MD right?? MD's like you have always assumed women should be like men, and indeed, held MEN up as the model for humanity and how humans SHOULD be, and in fact made scientific 'conclusions' bases upon the anatomy and responses of males.

 

Here's a SUGGESTION. Instead of EXPECTING your wife to be LIKE YOU, how about at least TRY to become a LITTLE BIT like her?

 

My model for how my wife should be sexually is not how I am, it's how she USED TO BE during the first couple of years of our relationship.

 

What sometimes gets left out of this discussion is that in the initial stages of the relationship, many women DO want to have sex several times a week, sometimes several times a day. When a few years later her libido drops to once a month or less, the man is accused of wanting sex "all the time." But it's not him who changed, it's her.

 

I think most single people are aware that passion cools down after the first couple of years, but the common perception is that you'll go from 10 times a week to maybe one or twice a week. If engaged men were told "You're fiance may want it every day now, but in 5-10 years it's likely to be once a month if you're lucky," then how many would still be eager to get married?

[Mr. Lucky]

From this book, I gained more than a label and understanding. I gained some new direction. First, as I mentioned...if she feels that every time she is asked for sex she is given no option but yes, then what kind of asking is that? Obviously, as you found out, when we as guys rarely get a yes, we pressure at every possibility. This makes every encounter with her an opportunity for sex in her mind. Even when we then do not mean to pressure, she interprets it as such. For example, when my wife and I kiss and she shows more passion, I immediately think..."This is my chance." After a few times of this, she feels that she cannot even kiss me without an overture for sex. There are other ways I have communicated to her that sex with her is more important that time with her...unintentionally.

 

I guess my disconnect (again thinking back to my first marriage) was that I didn't think that my attempts at intimacy 2X a week was "pressure at every opportunity". If she turned me down (which happened frequently for a number of reasons, real or imagined), I usually waited a couple of days - while reading our relationship climate like some kind of marriage meteorologist. I don't know, maybe I'm making your point for you here.

 

I'll follow your other thread to see what kind of feedback you get. The good news for me is that my (2nd) wife and I have found a number of ways around these issues. I hope you have similar success...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

SURE! You are a MD right?? MD's like you have always assumed women should be like men, and indeed, held MEN up as the model for humanity and how humans SHOULD be, and in fact made scientific 'conclusions' bases upon the anatomy and responses of males.

 

Here's a SUGGESTION. Instead of EXPECTING your wife to be LIKE YOU, how about at least TRY to become a LITTLE BIT like her?

 

Hmmm...I haven't heard form you in awhile Mrs. PV. Truthfully, I try not answering posts that simply spew out anger, but I will try to get to the facts of your response.

 

irst, I am not an MD...as in the word Doctor. Far from it, but than you for what I think should be a compliment.

 

So, since I have not studied much science, that is not how I view men and women. Actually, I have read and studied alot of psychology, so if I can be accused of anything, it is analyzing people's emotions and how they can be helped. My wife says I am very keen on her emotions and who she is. Yet I cannot find the Easy Button to "turn her on."

 

I think if you ask her, she would say that I try to think and respond to her as she would like. As a man, I cannot be her. I am not that good. But I try to think and respond as I think she would. She considers me her best friend and a great father. She just said in an email how much she appreciates me loving her.

 

Now, here is the question....why cannot this translate into passion? Where did it go? It was there, but now is lost. And when she says wishes she could chaneg...then I say, just do it. Because when her response is that I am not at fault, she in a big sense is saying that I cannot change anything. And since it is her fault and she is not changing, she is saying that she won't change.

[a4a]

Hmmm...I haven't heard form you in awhile Mrs. PV. Truthfully, I try not answering posts that simply spew out anger, but I will try to get to the facts of your response.

 

irst, I am not an MD...as in the word Doctor. Far from it, but than you for what I think should be a compliment.

 

So, since I have not studied much science, that is not how I view men and women. Actually, I have read and studied alot of psychology, so if I can be accused of anything, it is analyzing people's emotions and how they can be helped. My wife says I am very keen on her emotions and who she is. Yet I cannot find the Easy Button to "turn her on."

 

I think if you ask her, she would say that I try to think and respond to her as she would like. As a man, I cannot be her. I am not that good. But I try to think and respond as I think she would. She considers me her best friend and a great father. She just said in an email how much she appreciates me loving her.

Now, here is the question....why cannot this translate into passion? Where did it go? It was there, but now is lost. And when she says wishes she could chaneg...then I say, just do it. Because when her response is that I am not at fault, she in a big sense is saying that I cannot change anything. And since it is her fault and she is not changing, she is saying that she won't change.

 

 

sounds like the old : I love you but not in love with you crap.

Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life?

[Ripples]

Er, James, I'm going to hate myself for this, but any chance you could have moved over to 'nice' guy territory?

 

Any possibility of stirring things up a bit, not being so considerate, ignoring her a little bit, not being so attentive? Could that be a possible avenue not yet explored?

[JamesM]

sounds like the old : I love you but not in love with you crap.

Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life?

 

Nope. And earlier you said that it sounds like I am beating every bush, and you are right. I am. And if this marriage does not survive, I want to know that I did. Until I feel that I did, I will stay. Until the negative outweighs the positive, I will keep trying.

[JamesM]

Er, James, I'm going to hate myself for this, but any chance you could have moved over to 'nice' guy territory?

 

Any possibility of stirring things up a bit, not being so considerate, ignoring her a little bit, not being so attentive? Could that be a possible avenue not yet explored?

 

I am in the nic guy territory, but I am not perfect.

 

The problem with becoming less attentive and inconsiderate is that then this suddenly becomes "the reason" that things are as they are. Crazy. This avenue has been explored.