just a thought

[Guest]

I have been reading various articles on the effect of an affair on marriage.

 

Just about all of them say that an affair (as long as it is kept under wraps obviously) helps the marriage because mm's needs are being met outside and this makes the marriage more bearable. The mm won't care if his wife doesn't show him any attention, affection, intimacy because the OW will provide this.

 

However, once the affair ends, the cracks in the marriage reappear. I remember my xmm said that during a long period of NC with me, he and his w were having real problems. He now looks to the w to meet all his needs which she wasn't meeting before. Also as the OW has been meeting some of the needs, he is bound to compare and contrast which will cause problems at some level.

 

So I guess this is why most people tell the OW to end the affair and wait for a while, so that the mm can sample his marriage without her in it. This absence can be the catalyst that makes the mm either decides to rebuild his marriage or leave it.

If the OW continues in the affair, then mostly the mm is having all his needs met without having to change thing. It is all rather comfortable and familiar.

 

The only other thing that might alter things is if the wife become extremely suspicious and lets the mm know that she suspects him of having an affair. She will put restraints on him and watch his movements, and this will all but stifle the affair, virtually ending all contact with the OW. Usually the affair will fizzle out as the mm cannot sustain his relationship with the OW. He probably won't tell the OW the reasons, but it will be apparent to the OW and by complying with his wife's restraints, he has effectively made his choice to stay married.

 

Of course after a few months, he may miss the OW so much that he resumes contact thus jeopardising his marriage.

 

These are just a few thoughts, which have probably been aired elsewhere.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Just about all of them say that an affair (as long as it is kept under wraps obviously) helps the marriage because mm's needs are being met outside and this makes the marriage more bearable.

 

 

 

Affairs HELP marriages???? For whom exactly????

[BenThereDunThat]

Actually, this week's Savage Love column (by Dan Savage) had an interesting take on this topic:

 

Q: For the past three years I have been in a stable relationship with a great guy. Our relationship is uneventful. He is always there for me; he has never cheated on me. It is the kind of relationship that some girls dream of. The sex is OK. But I'm only 24 and I'm feeling suffocated. A co-worker and I recently started to do things socially. We have a lot in common and have a great time together. This past weekend, we admitted that we were attracted to each other. We ended up kissing. He is in a relationship and isn't thinking about leaving. So it would work out perfectly; we could be like f**k buddies. I am feeling conflicted. If it goes further with my co-worker, I don't think I would tell my boyfriend because I don't want to hurt him. But I wanted to get your feelings on getting some on the side. What are the pros and cons of cheating? —SOME ON THE SIDE

 

A: The pros? Sex, excitement, variety. The cons? Discovery, breakup, hellfire. Every idiot knows those pros and cons, SOTS, including you. But here's a pro that's rarely acknowledged: Sometimes cheating can save a long-term relationship. Sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a sexually rejected partner to stay in a relationship that's worth preserving for other good, valid reasons—like kids, for instance. And sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a person whose partner has a chronic, debilitating illness to stay put and stay sane. In these cases, cheating isn't just the right thing to do; it's the decent and honorable thing to do. Some f**kwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: **** you, you self-righteous Pollyanna f***tards. I am so sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without—forever! —if their mate is unwilling or incapable.You can't have it both ways, CIAWers. If sex is hugely important, then people can't be faulted for wanting some; if it's unimportant, then it shouldn't be seen as a huge betrayal when some poor ****ers, under duress, are forced to get their needs met elsewhere. That said, SOTS, I'm not gonna give you a pass. You're not done with sex, he's not dying, you don't have kids—cheating under your particular circumstances can't be justified. Regardless of what happens with your co-worker, SOTS, you need to end this relationship. You're not all that attracted to your boyfriend emotionally or physically, and you don't have the kind of entanglements—biological or durational—to rationalize having a **** buddy. You need to do the right thing, SOTS, and break up with this guy.

[overandout]

Just about all of them say that an affair (as long as it is kept under wraps obviously) helps the marriage because mm's needs are being met outside and this makes the marriage more bearable.

 

 

 

Affairs HELP marriages???? For whom exactly????

 

 

If mm is getting his sexual needs met outside of the marriage and his wife has a very low or non existant sex drive, then mm isn't pestering her for sex or getting frustrated. As I said, if the mm is managing to conceal the affair then the wife may not know about his OW. So the wife isn't getting pestered for sex (although I'm sure there will be some intimacy but just enough to satisfy her) and if the OW is meeting the mm's unmet needs he will be happier and content within his passionless, dull marriage.

I have focused on sex to make the point, but I am sure the mm finds the OW is more fun and vivacious than his wife and so again his needs are being met.

Yes it is all about mm's needs but then we all know that!

 

There will come a time when the OW will usually want more, but the quote you referred to is about sustaining the marriage itself. If the w doesn't know or doesn't care about the affair, but mm is staying in the marriage then that benefits her, if she wants to remain married.The family unit is maintained.

Let's not forget that mm don't generally cheat unless there is something missing in their marriage.

 

It's a bit like using your Toyota Corolla for driving around town, but if you want to vsisit the Blue Ridge Mountains you might be better off getting a SUV.

The point I am making is not rocket science!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

CHEATING IS ALWAYS WRONG - when it's done to you! The OW don't mind the lies told by MM until they lie to them! It all depends on which side of the lying cheating fence you are on I suppose!

 

Don't imagine there will be any OW up for nobel peace prizes anytime soon for their noble efforts in helping MM survive his M!

[Izzar]

What does CIAW & SOTS stand for?

[serial muse]

Actually, this week's Savage Love column (by Dan Savage) had an interesting take on this topic:

 

Q: For the past three years I have been in a stable relationship with a great guy. Our relationship is uneventful. He is always there for me; he has never cheated on me. It is the kind of relationship that some girls dream of. The sex is OK. But I'm only 24 and I'm feeling suffocated. A co-worker and I recently started to do things socially. We have a lot in common and have a great time together. This past weekend, we admitted that we were attracted to each other. We ended up kissing. He is in a relationship and isn't thinking about leaving. So it would work out perfectly; we could be like f**k buddies. I am feeling conflicted. If it goes further with my co-worker, I don't think I would tell my boyfriend because I don't want to hurt him. But I wanted to get your feelings on getting some on the side. What are the pros and cons of cheating? —SOME ON THE SIDE

 

A: The pros? Sex, excitement, variety. The cons? Discovery, breakup, hellfire. Every idiot knows those pros and cons, SOTS, including you. But here's a pro that's rarely acknowledged: Sometimes cheating can save a long-term relationship. Sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a sexually rejected partner to stay in a relationship that's worth preserving for other good, valid reasons—like kids, for instance. And sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a person whose partner has a chronic, debilitating illness to stay put and stay sane. In these cases, cheating isn't just the right thing to do; it's the decent and honorable thing to do. Some f**kwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: **** you, you self-righteous Pollyanna f***tards. I am so sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without—forever! —if their mate is unwilling or incapable.You can't have it both ways, CIAWers. If sex is hugely important, then people can't be faulted for wanting some; if it's unimportant, then it shouldn't be seen as a huge betrayal when some poor ****ers, under duress, are forced to get their needs met elsewhere. That said, SOTS, I'm not gonna give you a pass. You're not done with sex, he's not dying, you don't have kids—cheating under your particular circumstances can't be justified. Regardless of what happens with your co-worker, SOTS, you need to end this relationship. You're not all that attracted to your boyfriend emotionally or physically, and you don't have the kind of entanglements—biological or durational—to rationalize having a **** buddy. You need to do the right thing, SOTS, and break up with this guy.

 

i usually agree with Dan, because he's awesome, but i don't entirely here...because he basically set up a silly straw man just so he could knock it down. that's intellectually dishonest, Dan! i'm disappointed in you.

 

he says "you can't have it both ways," but that's silly, because those two premises are not in any way logically connected.

 

there are plenty of "cheating is always wrong" types who believe firmly in the importance of sex, too, and would not ask someone to do without. so casting it in those terms is inherently false.

 

that said, i agree with his second point, which basically is the end result of mine and others who believe cheating can't really ever be justified - sometimes two people aren't compatible, sexually or otherwise. breaking up if they can't resolve their sexual differences - which i agree are very important to a relationship - is not the worst thing in the world.

[serial muse]

What does CIAW & SOTS stand for?

 

dan likes to abbreviate his terms/nicknames. ciaw = cheating is always wrong and sots = some on the side.

[Izzar]

dan likes to abbreviate his terms/nicknames. ciaw = cheating is always wrong and sots = some on the side.

 

Thank You!!

[MySugaree]

I have been reading various articles on the effect of an affair on marriage.

 

Just about all of them say that an affair (as long as it is kept under wraps obviously) helps the marriage because mm's needs are being met outside and this makes the marriage more bearable. The mm won't care if his wife doesn't show him any attention, affection, intimacy because the OW will provide this.

 

However, once the affair ends, the cracks in the marriage reappear. I remember my xmm said that during a long period of NC with me, he and his w were having real problems. He now looks to the w to meet all his needs which she wasn't meeting before. Also as the OW has been meeting some of the needs, he is bound to compare and contrast which will cause problems at some level.

 

So I guess this is why most people tell the OW to end the affair and wait for a while, so that the mm can sample his marriage without her in it. This absence can be the catalyst that makes the mm either decides to rebuild his marriage or leave it.

If the OW continues in the affair, then mostly the mm is having all his needs met without having to change thing. It is all rather comfortable and familiar.

 

The only other thing that might alter things is if the wife become extremely suspicious and lets the mm know that she suspects him of having an affair. She will put restraints on him and watch his movements, and this will all but stifle the affair, virtually ending all contact with the OW. Usually the affair will fizzle out as the mm cannot sustain his relationship with the OW. He probably won't tell the OW the reasons, but it will be apparent to the OW and by complying with his wife's restraints, he has effectively made his choice to stay married.

 

Of course after a few months, he may miss the OW so much that he resumes contact thus jeopardising his marriage.

 

These are just a few thoughts, which have probably been aired elsewhere.

 

Good thoughts, too, that periodically need repeating. Nothing keeps an unhappy marriage above water like an affair. Without an affair-preserver, many a marriage would sink like a rock. Ironically, an affair, at least in the short term, helps a marriage stay afloat, if not optimal.

 

The problem arises once the affair ends. Not only is the married person's outlet gone, but he or she now must continue in a dead marriage without the life and vitality the affair brought. In addition, an affair is a relationship and when the relationship ends, who's going to mend your broken heart? The betrayed spouse? Hardly.

 

Affairs are much easier to enter than exit. That's why many sage posters here, like some Greek Chorus, warn unwary boys and girls to steer clear of acting on any impulse to connect--emotionally or physically--with a married person.While wages of sin isn't death, they're still costly for everyone involved.

[herenow]

It sounds like more of the same stuff that people say when they are trying to justify having an affair.

 

If affairs weren't wrong, they wouldn't be a secret. There is a reason people lie about affairs, the reason is: it's wrong and they know it's wrong.

[MySugaree]

No one's justifying anything. People don't have affairs to salvage their marriages. It's an unintended consequence.

 

You put your marriage problems on ice during the affair.You don't need your spouse to meet your emotional and/or sexual needs. If there's a sex drive/intimacy differential, it doesn't matter because your needs are being met elsewhere.

 

This isn't an excuse,it's an observation.

 

Chill.

[BenThereDunThat]

i usually agree with Dan, because he's awesome, but i don't entirely here...because he basically set up a silly straw man just so he could knock it down. that's intellectually dishonest, Dan! i'm disappointed in you.

 

he says "you can't have it both ways," but that's silly, because those two premises are not in any way logically connected.

 

there are plenty of "cheating is always wrong" types who believe firmly in the importance of sex, too, and would not ask someone to do without. so casting it in those terms is inherently false.

 

that said, i agree with his second point, which basically is the end result of mine and others who believe cheating can't really ever be justified - sometimes two people aren't compatible, sexually or otherwise. breaking up if they can't resolve their sexual differences - which i agree are very important to a relationship - is not the worst thing in the world.

 

I like Dan too. I'm not sure how I feel about this one, though. I think affairs are wrong. But, standing on the outside, if I were to see a loving, happy couple where one could absolutely not have sex because of some medical reason, and the partner who CAN have sex is absolutely willing to stay with the loved one - but just really, really needs to get laid. And by doing so, is happier and better able to care for their loved one, then what?

 

Like I said, never been in that situation so I don't know how I'd feel if say, I were the person unable to have sex (god forbid!). Would I love my SO enough to say, I know you have needs that I can't fulfill, so please just don't tell me anything about it...

[Ripples]

Would it be acceptable, in those circumstance, if the person who could not have sex knew about and condoned the affair, BTDT? Otherwise, it would still be a betrayal?

[BenThereDunThat]

Would it be acceptable, in those circumstance, if the person who could not have sex knew about and condoned the affair, BTDT? Otherwise, it would still be a betrayal?

 

I guess it would depend on the person who's stuck being sexless. Would they want to know? Would sexless person set the boundaries? I don't know how it would all work or at what point it is considered a betrayal. Because we all know that sex isn't so mechanical and medicinal-like.

[MySugaree]

Would it be acceptable, in those circumstance, if the person who could not have sex knew about and condoned the affair, BTDT? Otherwise, it would still be a betrayal?

 

The fidelity waiver would have to be both knowing and truly voluntary to be morally valid. I can envision a situation where one spouse is ill and dependent on her husband for all of her life care needs. Hubby has the medical insurance through work, pays the mortgage, cares for her, etc.

 

In that type of one-sided dependency situation, I wonder if any fidelity waiver would be truly voluntary and hence valid. What is the dependent spouse going to do?

[Ripples]

BTDT, Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's hard to imagine being in that position. I can only feel that it would be healthier for all involved if everything were out in the open right from the beginning. At least then the sexless person could possibly feel they had some control over the situation. I'm sure they wouldn't want the graphic details, but just to know their SO was having sex with someone else.

 

MySugaree, it's bloody tough to imagine. I hope that if that situation ever arises, all parties are able to respect the others needs. That sounds way too trite... geez, complicated...

[MySugaree]

A couple of years ago, a respected female poster began a Thread stating that she was going to have an affair because her chronically ill husband was either unwilling or unable to have any physical contact with her.

 

The response was divided down the middle: some excoriated her for even considering an affair; others (of whom I was one in a different incarnation), urged her to go for it. Things got ugly, fast. No one was neutral.

 

To this day, I don't know which path she chose.

 

You're right, Rip, life is complicated.

[Ripples]

It would be interesting to know what happened and if her husband knew and condoned it. That for me, is the sticking point, thinking about it.

 

I'm beginning to feel that if something is done by a wife or husband that they don't want their SO to know about, then it's probably unhealthy.

[MySugaree]

It would be interesting to know what happened and if her husband knew and condoned it. That for me, is the sticking point, thinking about it.

 

I'm beginning to feel that if something is done by a wife or husband that they don't want their SO to know about, then it's probably unhealthy.

 

This poster was not going to disclose her infidelity. And you're right about affair secrets: affair secrecy and duplicity, the "other" life, rots a marriage from the inside. It's a cancer.

[Babybird]

I'm beginning to feel that if something is done by a wife or husband that they don't want their SO to know about, then it's probably unhealthy.

 

Why would it be so unhealthy? Ex: My husband is dying of cancer. I am doing everything I can to support and love him to the end. Period. The W is doing everything to support and love him to the end. Eventually there comes a time where someone needs to help fullfill her needs. Sex related or not. Emotionally, intimately, and/or sexually, the fact is that she is up-holding her vows..except one. Sex. It always boils down to sex. What would be SO wrong with her having sex on the side to help her emotionally deal with her life? I don't think thats unhealthy. In fact I think thats very healthy. She is helping to preserve her own mental health(falling into depression, nervous breakdown, etc) by having someone to support her.

 

Having the SO not know is sparing them hurt feeling, sense of betrayal and most people here think A's are wrong...yes we get that. What is wrong with keeping a dying man happy? Isn't that what it boils down to after all is said and done..were their last days good ones?

 

Granted, this is an example. There was a woman in my town that went through something similar. Her husband was a cop that was shot in the head. Couldn't talk, walk, etc. but could understand words, and blink yes/no. She stuck by his side until he died 17 years later. She was 21 when the accident happened, he was 23. She had someone on the side. Does that make it unhealthy? Does that sound so wrong? I don't think so.

[vanilla chai]

 

 

 

Affairs HELP marriages???? For whom exactly????

 

Apparently for the man who is making a mockery out of his marriage for his own selfish reasons

[woe_is_me]

The only other thing that might alter things is if the wife become extremely suspicious and lets the mm know that she suspects him of having an affair. She will put restraints on him and watch his movements, and this will all but stifle the affair, virtually ending all contact with the OW. Usually the affair will fizzle out as the mm cannot sustain his relationship with the OW. He probably won't tell the OW the reasons, but it will be apparent to the OW and by complying with his wife's restraints, he has effectively made his choice to stay married.

 

Of course after a few months, he may miss the OW so much that he resumes contact thus jeopardising his marriage.

 

These are just a few thoughts, which have probably been aired elsewhere.

 

I haven't read this anywhere ..thank u i needed to see that!

[Meaplus3]

No one's justifying anything. People don't have affairs to salvage their marriages. It's an unintended consequence.

 

You put your marriage problems on ice during the affair.You don't need your spouse to meet your emotional and/or sexual needs. If there's a sex drive/intimacy differential, it doesn't matter because your needs are being met elsewhere.

 

This isn't an excuse,it's an observation.

You put your marriage problems on ice during the affair.You don't need your spouse to meet your emotional and/or sexual needs

 

Very good observation! I think this is so true. IMO Starting an A only allows you to put off the problems in ones marriage.

 

AP

[NoIDidn't]

This thread is so sad to me. Its like "what is wrong with people" that they are so shallow, base, and self-centered.

 

When I got married, it was for better or worst, forsaking all others. Yeah, he already cheated, but if I were sick or pregnant when he did it and for some reason wasn't able to have sex with him, I would dump him in a heartbeat. In a New York Minute. Quicker than you can bat your eye lashes. I'm sure you get my point.

 

But my point is this: an affair NEVER helps a M. The person having the A gives all of their vitality to it and to nothing else. Unless you are dealing with a much older, mature person with a mature faithful and loving M and they have a terminal spouse I ain't buying it.

 

I simply don't get this "Needs" argument that people like giving. It ain't about you or your needs all the time. I really wish people would just grow up. Grow up and stop thinking only of themselves and their little pathetic needs all the time.

 

I mean, if it was such a life or death need and it wasn't being met, why aren't they dead? Really? Why aren't these people with these life-threatening unmet needs dead? Because it isn't a need. Its something they want and will justify by any means possible.

 

End Rant

 

Carry on......