Davis Posted March 3, 2007 Posted March 3, 2007 I've been doing some online reading today and one dating concept is that when a guy is no longer a challenge, the woman loses interest and she will leave or find another more challenging guy. That's probably valid. Now, lots of women lose interest in the guy and leave and then there are some that lose interest and cheat. So I'm trying to understand my ex. She lost interest in me so she cheated? Does that mean that I was to blame for her cheating? If I had continued to be a challenge for her does that mean she would have never cheated? Looking at my ex's pattern of doing this (finding a new guy first, cheating and then leaving) I would have to say because of her dysfunctions (drinking and intimacy issues, a cheating father) she would have cheated on me at some point regardless of interest level. What are your guys thoughts about all of this??
Kwo-ne'-she Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 So I'm trying to understand my ex. She lost interest in me so she cheated? Does that mean that I was to blame for her cheating? If I had continued to be a challenge for her does that mean she would have never cheated? She may have lost interest in you, therefor she cheated. No, you are not to blame for her cheating. That was a choice she made, and she ultimately has to "own" it. Had you "continued to be a challenge" she may not have cheated? Love is not a game. If she has a need for the chase, then moves on once she has "caught" her prey, she has a lot to learn about love. From what you described, she has a pattern of doing this. I suspect she would have cheated on you no matter what, given time.
juk Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 First off you can't blame yourself for your wifes infidelity. However the not being a challenge has just made me think. You know when I met my wife 10 years ago she absolutely idolized me. It was so easy being with her I never really had to try that hard, sure I was kind and nice and all those things but it was not something I needed to work at, it was all so natural and easy. Almost everywhere i went she followed me, the girl was smitten. Whenever I spoke to her parents she used to stand there gazing at me with a big smile proud that i was her man and her parents liked me. She was a very unstreet wise girl didn't know much about life, hadn't done much but was the nicest person I had ever met in my life. As the years went by I bought her out of her shell, clued her up about things, made her a strong confident woman. So then the tables turned, i started to follow her around, she was incontrol, i started to feel like i didnt deserve her! what the hell had i done to this sweet innocent woman? So yes I would agree that when you become not so much of a challange they will get bored and some might look elsewhere. But i think it's really a combination of things that lead to an affair or your partner leaving.
guin_girl Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Davis, Just because a woman loses interest, does not mean they have to cheat. Cheating is an ethical flaw. You cannot take ownership over another person's actions. A person who has respect for themselves and their partner will end one relationship prior to beginning another. Only a selfish person will cheat on their partner. You honestly had no bearing on her actions. There is nothing that excuses a person from cheating. She can overcome her past, but she chooses not to... you can't save every "ho" Davis... let her go and find your princess.
Cossette4 Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Think about it in a different way: If you believe that a "challenging" guy would forever hold her interest and stop her from cheating, then all ho cheaters would end up with amazing, challenging men. Thus, these types of women would ultimately be "rewarded" because they would go through a series of "unchallenging" men until a really great and challenging one came along and then they would automatically stop being cheaters and end up happy. And we know it doesn't happen like that. The flaw is in her, not you or any other guy she ever cheated on. She can try to justify her behavior with an insult like, "Sorry you just didn't challenge me enough." But it's just the case of someone refusing to take responsibility for his/her own actions and placing the blame on someone else. For example, after my ex put me through the hell I had to go through during the break up, he attempted to "justify" it to me and his friends by saying, "Well I thought she didn't care about me anymore." So, if I "don't care" about you any more, that gives you the right to completely disrespect, offend, humiliate, and insult me through your cowardly breakup actions? No, I don't think so.
Icantletgo Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 If you truely care about someone, truely connect w/ them, truely love them...then it's not about the challenge. The man I use to love (he left me for someone else), I loved him from day one. I would never have left him even when we started getting comfortable w/ each other and there was no challenge left to it. But...apparently...it wasn't enough for him. So no, my answer is: for me, as a woman, I could give a sh*t if there is that challenge left there or not if I was truely in love with him and couldn't see myself w/o them.
luvtoto Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Think about it in a different way: If you believe that a "challenging" guy would forever hold her interest and stop her from cheating, then all ho cheaters would end up with amazing, challenging men. Thus, these types of women would ultimately be "rewarded" because they would go through a series of "unchallenging" men until a really great and challenging one came along and then they would automatically stop being cheaters and end up happy. And we know it doesn't happen like that. The flaw is in her, not you or any other guy she ever cheated on. She can try to justify her behavior with an insult like, "Sorry you just didn't challenge me enough." But it's just the case of someone refusing to take responsibility for his/her own actions and placing the blame on someone else. For example, after my ex put me through the hell I had to go through during the break up, he attempted to "justify" it to me and his friends by saying, "Well I thought she didn't care about me anymore." So, if I "don't care" about you any more, that gives you the right to completely disrespect, offend, humiliate, and insult me through your cowardly breakup actions? No, I don't think so. I just wanted to say that you gave very good advice here, Cossett4.
jusified Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Correct, there is really no excuse for cheating. Alot of people are like that, not just girls. When I'm in a relationship I am "in it", I put my heart and sould into it. It does hurt like hell when just cos the relationship is comfortable, the girl behaves like what you described and leaves for something more intersting or rans when something is going wrong. But hey guys/grils, be true to who you are. I mean your integrity, honesty, ability to love and care means more then anything in the world. No one can take that away from you but yourself. Of cos if there are a few partners on the way who don't appreciate that then to bad for them, the right person will do the same for you one day. Jus
Road Rage Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Quote guin_ girl "cheating is an ethical flaw" Excellent statement. And true of all areas of life, not just fidelity in relationships. It is the person`s ethics that are flawed. When the focus remains on blaming the other person, the real truth is hidden.
sb129 Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Great posts Guingirl and Cossette4. Alot of people who are cheated on often try to find the reasons why either within themselves, or by overanalysing the cheater. Its NOT your fault Davis. I am sorry you went thru all this, but youmay never know the answers, and you could really torture yourself trying to find them. Think of it as a flaw in the other person, and try and heal from it, and move on with your life. Easier said than done I know, but I know from prev experience that you can give yourself a rightold headache trying to find answers to such questions.
shockandawed Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Good topic Davis, I too have over-ananlyzed my situation and felt if I had "played" the game differently, then the outcome may have been different. I was with my ex fiance for nearly three years. The first stage of the relationship was very similar to what juk described. Not that I wanted to be in control, but she was very loving and I could do no wrong. The second stage, was great as well, we really developed a comfort level and seemed to be doing things as a team. Planning trips, projects, etc..The last stage, the temper began showing. She would blast me for the stupidest things, pick fights and blowup, then to storm out, turn her phone off and not be able to speak to her for several days. Honestly, this could be over the dumbest crap. I began repressing my feelings to avoid these types of conflicts. I don't mind a good debate, but to blow up and then hide for days on end was a little tough to deal with. So I would walk on eggshells. The more that happened, looking back now, I realize the more she took advantage of it and eventually I was not much of a challenge. Although I don't think she technically cheated, she lined up her next one prior to dumping me and went into an immediate relationship. Just a month into that one, she admits to me the grass isn't greener, I see her place a "hidden" personal ad under a different name, but definitely her, she admits it, admits to crazy drama already, yet I think she believes I am still on the line so she continues with this one. So yes, I have replayed everything over and over, thinking if I had just told her to f/o at this point or that, it would be different. But I am slowly realizing that it is a character flaw in her. Love is not a game and I shouldn't have to calculate moves to make a relationship work. I know the feeling too well Davis, but we both deserve much better and will get it.
Killaine Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 I think a lot of people, not just women, do this. I think it's a sign of immaturity (or at least an excuse not to stay committed, which isn't necessarily the same thing)...probably because when I was teenager I would lose interest (not cheat, but leave them) eventually, but many times they'd seem to 'lose their individuality', in the sense that they'd get completely 'mushy' and clingy...Maybe that's what they mean by not being a challenge. A lot of my peers were like this, too, but I've outgrown it and most of them have, too. Maybe that's why I take it as a sign of immaturity. (Sorry if this is awkward, English isn't my first language.)
Author Davis Posted March 4, 2007 Author Posted March 4, 2007 Good points everyone! I have to agree that my ex has an ethical or character flaw as we have discussed in previous threads. No, I don't believe that it was my fault. Cheaters are, by definition, selfish and liars. They are all about themselves and only care about getting what they want. I think some men and women are just cheaters. It wouldn't matter if we kept their interest or remained a challenge for them. This dating "theory" says that when a woman's "interest" level in her current guy stays above 80-90% she will be happy and stay and when her interest level drops to say 55% then she will leave. The "trick" they say, is to stay a challenge and maintain their attraction to you basically by playing games. So it seems the "logical" conclusion to this theory is that if YOU let their interest dwindle, then they will cheat or leave you. In effect it is your fault because you let it happen. Hmmm...... My thought was that even if guy could keep his gf's interest level high, that if she has a faulty character or dysfunctions, then she will likely cheat anyway at some point. This type of person turns to another person (cheats) if they find someone attractive or if things in their current relationship are not going well. Any little temptation or roadbump and this type of person could be out having a fling.
Trialbyfire Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Good points everyone! I have to agree that my ex has an ethical or character flaw as we have discussed in previous threads. No, I don't believe that it was my fault. Cheaters are, by definition, selfish and liars. They are all about themselves and only care about getting what they want. I think some men and women are just cheaters. It wouldn't matter if we kept their interest or remained a challenge for them. This dating "theory" says that when a woman's "interest" level in her current guy stays above 80-90% she will be happy and stay and when her interest level drops to say 55% then she will leave. The "trick" they say, is to stay a challenge and maintain their attraction to you basically by playing games. So it seems the "logical" conclusion to this theory is that if YOU let their interest dwindle, then they will cheat or leave you. In effect it is your fault because you let it happen. Hmmm...... My thought was that even if guy could keep his gf's interest level high, that if she has a faulty character or dysfunctions, then she will likely cheat anyway at some point. This type of person turns to another person (cheats) if they find someone attractive or if things in their current relationship are not going well. Any little temptation or roadbump and this type of person could be out having a fling. I agree with this except there maybe some misconception of keeping a person's interest. A challenge for me is someone who I can keep up a stimulating conversation with, someone who can challenge me intellectually versus playing hard to get. I think people forget about this element of a relationship especially once they're at a comfort level with the other person. Your mate should also be your friend. Btw, I've never cheated in my life.
juk Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 shockandawed, I wasn't referring to being controling but more of being a very confident man in the relationship that had suggestions and ideas. My ex wanted a man in her life, for the first few years i was that man she always wanted. But like i say her confidence and ego grew to such an extent that i had no chance whatsoever in the realtionship towards the end. I remember things like doing some DIY or suggesting a holiday for us, silly little things like that that she loved about me. I had ideas in life about us being self employed and working for ourselves, we did just that and opened a catering business together. Her personality changed, she became a very strong woman who loved herself more than the people in her life. So i became less of a challenge to her, she was in the driving seat and she knew other men started to find her attractive that's when i lost her.
shockandawed Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 Juk, I know you didn't control your ex. Just the example of how devoted they are at the beginning. I would love to hear more of the womens opinion on this. I agree with what Trialbyfire says about challenging on other levels to keep interest. But there does appear to be some conventional thought and histories that when a woman feels "unchallenged" in having to keep a man, they lose interest. I tend to value the time and memories of a relationship. The longer it goes, the more I cherish what has occured. I also get a comfort level where I feel the other person is a part of a team. I show affection and willingness to forgive based on that value. Once I feel I don't have to "fight" to keep my partners love, I develop much stronger feelings for the relationship. I understand if the man or even woman begins to take the relationship for granted and puts nothing into it. But that wasn't the case with mine. Hell, I had taken her on a Carribean Cruise a little over a week before this happened. Do women lose interest when the chase is no longer required?
Cossette4 Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 I think the word "challenge" is being interpreted differently. If by "challenge," you mean someone who is constantly keeping pace with your life and helping you grow and become a better person each day, then yes, women like a challenge and will become disinterested if the guy never grows, progresses, or continues to keep pace with her in all areas of the relationship (from emotional to physical to financial). But if by "challenge," you mean those ridiculously childish games people play in relationships where they purposely act like "I don't need you...you have to work for me!" "I could leave anytime I want...better do stuff to persuade me to stay!" "I'm gunna play hard to get so you appreciate me more!" Then that's...obnoxious. Those things would actually make me lose interest. Sure, during the first few months, that kinda stuff seems normal, but if those games went on for years, that would actually make me lose interest. It shouldn't be a game--I'm not your opponent, I'm your girlfriend.
guin_girl Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 Well I guess you would have to define what you mean by a "challenge"... I don't want to have to keep trying to figure out what a man is thinking or wants... I have that enough when dating that I sure don't need it during a long term relationship. I like my guy to be even keel and "normal". I want one that can communicate and not keep me guessing. Because of my past relationships, changes in my partner's behavior will have me thinking the worst... However, I enjoy having someone who is interested in different things than me. So that I can learn things from them and share new ideas. I don't want someone like me or in the same field because I know that I am a competitive person, and that could present problems. I want someone that keeps up with current events and is educated enough to be able to carry on a lively conversation... but not in a egotistical, know-it-all way... I like a "battle of the minds"... conversations where there is no right or wrong. I dated a guy that didn't really talk all the much, he was just a hard working mechanic... although I enjoyed our comfortable silence, at times I would have loved to stay up and talk about something other than carburetors
guin_girl Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 I think the word "challenge" is being interpreted differently. you and I sure do think a lot alike
jusified Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 geez guin, i think i fit that desciption you gave pretty well. Guess I gotta find a girl like you one day
oppath Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 To me being a challenge means living a full life outside your dating partner or gf. Playing in a couple sports leagues, or taking a class...basically doing things separate from your partner a couple times a week, things you can on occasion share with her but are your activities with your friends. You are a challenge in that there are a couple nights a week where you CAN'T see your gf. If she does the same, the relationship grows, because both people do things to share and enrich each other's lives by doing differnet things and both people need to make compromises to see each other, which makes the other person feel rewarded. Being a challenge in the sense advocated by dating coaches/guru's is generally game playing. If you want to juggle 3 girls at once for a month or two, and constantly rotate a pair and a spare, being unavailable, a little distant, etc can increase attraction. Most RELATIONSHIPS, however, develop a little differently. People should gradually spend more time together, and not all their time right away, but in most lasting relationships I've witnessed, the connection generally makes the challenge/games dissipate. There is a difference between being busy and interesting and being intentionally unavailble. This is why I think people should have 3 passions -- 3 social activities a week that are mostly set (sports, politics, volunteer, etc) -- after 6 months this can drop to 2 activities so you can spend more time with your partner, but until then, keep yourself busy and growing as a person.
Jinxx Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 I've been doing some online reading today and one dating concept is that when a guy is no longer a challenge, the woman loses interest and she will leave or find another more challenging guy. My situation had nothing to do with my STBEXH not being a challenge. He got fat, and I do not mean gaining a few extra pounds, he got huge and that became a huge turn off for me because I work hard at staying in shape. I begged the man to go to the gym with me and to change his eating habits. The doctor even told him he needed to lose weight because it was starting to affect his health. He was in denial and still is. He'd much rather sit on the couch with the remote glued to his hand watching sports all day.
shockandawed Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 Ladies, Thanks for restoring my faith in the potential of a long term relationship. It is nice to know there are women who feel the "challenges" I referred to as nothing more than childish mind games. I agree wholeheartedly that a relationship must be nurtured and constantly developed. It is like anything else worthwhile in life, the more effort you put into it, the more you get out of it. I love nothing more than late night conversations, being pushed to be better, etc... There just seems to be quite a few women who lose interest after the thrill of the chase is over.
pricillia Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 If I lost interest I would not cheat I would say goodbye..
Cossette4 Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 you and I sure do think a lot alike Haha Guin! Our posts were made within two minutes of each other! Creeeeeepy.
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