DarkBlue Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 I'm sorry... but I really feel the need to make a retaliatory thread to the one made earlier about the pattern of there being "Is he flirting with me?" threads and how those of us who ask are just looking to get our ego's stroked or asking simply because we want a confirmation.The thread really sort of pissed me off. What abut those of us who are worried and simply trying to go about things the right way? Who aren't sure wether to follow their head or heart because they are heavily conflicting? People are coming to these forums for HELP because some of us have never experienced such an akward situation before. We're lost. Asking questions.. hoping for guidance... looking for answers... or at least hoping to find other people in similar situations to relate to or connect with. It just kind of sucks to see threads making fun of the situation I've personally had to go through and had a really rough time dealing with. I was picked on growing up because I was poor and chubby. I've lost a lot of weight since then and make a bit more money then I used to so I can afford to dress nice. I'm constantly paranoid though that people still see me as I used to be and are disguisted with me. Throughout childhood I experienced a lesson that the majority of the world is very shallow. it is very difficult for me to believe someone is sincerely interested in me. I'm just waiting for the punch line. I also work with alot of people who just openly play flirt with everyone so it is hard to distinguish what is O.K. and when I am heading into dangerous territory. Personally, I like to be prepared at all times mentally and physically. I don't like being caught of guard. I feel the need to defend myself emotionally.. and I find the best way is to be prepared. Like playing life out like a chess game. I hate to make spur of the moment decisions because I got caught up in emotions or the moment or whatever, which I'm sure would happen with what my situation was (and may still be). I knew I was heading in one of two directions. I was either right that he was flirting with intent and if I kept giving signals that said "It's ok. Go right ahead" we'd end up doing something I would more then likely regret ( because I'm notorious for imagining oh so hopefully that my larger then life day dreams will come true and then I'm always let down and fall into a cycle of depression because I just couldn't stay grounded or realistic...) or I'd be wrong and feel like an idiot for being paranoid and approaching him about it. I was also afraid I'd come off like a prude or self-asbored (or a bit of both) to immeaditely assume just because he's flirting with me a bit more then he used to that he wants to have an affair. The reason I was asking was because I was extremley conflicted. I felt like I was too close to the situation to see clearly what was going on. I thought it would be good to have some other opinions. I wasn't looking for confirmation or ego stroking. I was already getting enough ego stroking from him.. but the question in mind was and still is "Is it sincere flattery or could it be he can tell I have ugly duckling syndrome and just wants to try to make me feel better? I didn't know if it was paranoia on my part... or wishful thinking... ( and still don't know... despite trying to talk to him about it once after putting myself through NC with him for a couple of weeks.. I couldn't bring myself to just outright ask because I am so afraid of the answer good or bad...) I have gone back and forth from being utterly flattered and charmed and even WANTING him to sincerely want me and make a move, to being horrified at the idea and feeling like if he means anything he's said that he's a wolf in wolf's clothing, untrustworhty, and not the friend or mentor I thought he was. I came on here in hopes of figuiring out how to prepare. I'm terrified at the idea of being this emotionally unprepared for something... especially since it's so involved in my work place where I HAVE to be professional despite the emotional roller coaster going through my head every time I go there and someone mentions him.. or me.. or how we interact... I know that I have feelings for the MM and that they grow stronger when he gives me signals that it's ok to like him. Mmph. I am babbling. I don't know exactly what I am trying to relay here except that I'm really kind of miffed at the way posters are being treated that are going through situations like the one I am going through. I am very lost.. confused.. torn... going through alot of emotional struggle and heart ache trying to figuire out what the right thing to do is... Sure.. I don't know him well enough to profess I am in love and that's "why I can't let go" *boo hoo* like some other women who are OW (heh) do that have gotten themselves thickly in the mud.. but it doesn't mean I don't have *feelings* for him yet, because I do, and that it's not really really hard to let go and stop thinking of the possibilites good or bad... and it's just really irking me that people on here are all sympathetic to OW and there "what ifs?" but then telling me plain and simple "get away from him. He's not yours to have" when I took the time out to explain there's a friendship that is in it's seedling stages and blooming so just "getting away from him" is easier said then done. I feel like going NC is putting the growing friendship in check.. on hold.. through stagnation... and I HATE IT. On the other hand I'm putting myself through NC AGAIN because we arranged for us to do something as friends twice now and he blew me off the first time and wouldn't even give me the courtesy of making a date for a rain check... but in his defense he was very busy with a new project at the time I asked and he might have been trying to just get from point A to point B because then for the second outing he was very fickle on where to meet up and when for several days.. but just when I was starting to feel like he was avoiding me.. that he didn't even want to be my friend... He apparantly went out of his way to try to contact me by asking a co-worker we both knew to call me with a message on where to meet and what day. Then he showed up when he said he would but with wife and kids.. said "hi" and "bye" and "sorry.. plans didn't work out, had to change them" without any further explanation. The series of events and how they unfolded has left me feeling quite ill. Rumours circulating that we're having an affair even though we haven't. Him joking around that if we're going to get in trouble for it we migth as well do it.. and that he doens't care what other people think about us... but then noticing that he stopped himself from even giving me a kiss on the cheek good bye like he used to and acting very akward around me lately.. I'm not sure if it's because he can tell that I'm bothered by everything going on and he's not sure what to do, or if it's because he's caught on that I have feelings and maybe he doesn't have them back and is just now realizing he's been giving off misleading signals and is trying to stop just "being himself". I hate the idea of him changing who he is because of me... I don't want to stifle him from being himself because I'm too uptight and let my thoughts get carried away. Also His flaking out has upset me terribley.. more then it should. I know. I am very dissapointed in myself for letting this situation distract me SO MUCH no matter what I do to try to stay focused on my other goals. This whole going NC again thing is tearing me up inside as well. Today I screwed up on the job because I was so out of it. It's really hard not to think about, because that mutual friend we have that he had relay the message of where to meet him and when asked me to pick up some shifts working in the same area he does. I managed to very crafitly arrange it so that I am working "my other job" on the days he's scheduled to work there so that we don't cross paths...I've even gone so far as to go by a different "stage name" in the area, so that if my name is dropped in conversation on a day he is working, he doesn't catch on that were working in the same place at different times... but today I walked by the green room and saw his head shot up with a bunch of others and had to choke back the tears I felt coming... because then other people working there would ask what was wrong and of course I wouldn't be able to tell them.. and having to experience that first hand would only upset me more. What triggered the upset is I feel like I am being a coward by avoiding him. That I'm either avoiding the pain that would occur from feeling rejected that is bound to come from him telling me he's not interested... or that it's just the opposite.. That I'm being a coward because I am in denial of our attraction to each other and don't want to see him for who he really is. A man who is fickle and untrustworthy and not as geniune as I first gave him credit for... because so far he's saying one thing and doing another... as a "friend" I should just think "well he's a flake" and leave it at that. Not a reliable friend but someone cool to hang with whenever he's around... except it's hard to think of him as just that.. because I'm fearful there's more to it then that. That either he DOES NOT like me and he is flaking only because he wants me to "get a clue" that he's not got much time for anyone else in his life then his family and his career... or it could mean that he DOES like me and is just as confused as I am.. one minute wanting something, and the next going omg, I better stay away from her because I have feelings... I just don't know.. All I do know is that I need just as much help and support as anyone else on here who is going through a struggle with falling for someone that they really shouldn't ... dealing with a taboo subject where it's hard to turn to even the closest of friends out of fear of there reactions, of people finding out who shoudln't because there is that rule.. you tell one friend something that HAS to stay secret, and well they just HAVE to tell one other person who they assume will keep it secret and so on, or them seeing me differently... like morally bankrupt or something for even thinking these thoughts. It's really REALLY hard to figuire out if I'm doing what's right because everyone on here seems to have a different opinion on what's best to do. Go with your heart or your head? Sometimes what is considered wrong is what's right... people telling me to run away as fast as I can.. others telling me to confront him about the flirting and put an end to it... and still others saying by jumping to conclusions good or bad I could be messing up my destiny. ARRGGGGHHH!!! This hurts.. It really hurts... I'm so lost... and then I see some thread where everyone's laughing at the people posting threads where we're concerned that we might be playing with fire because you've got it all figuired out.. we're all little attention seeking ego stroking validaters? It makes me wonder if I can trust the advice I was given on here in the first place because now I wonder if it's just the opinions of jaded BS and OW who already have experience in the matter who couldn't see it coming when it was happening to THEM but somehow manage to laugh at and expect those of us who are confused, concerned, and curious to somehow "know this already" and if we don't we're blind and stupid little twits who are too caught up in the moment to realize what were heading into. Hello. If I was totally blind and stupid I wouldn't be on this site! :mad:
NoIDidn't Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 I couldn't bring myself to read the whole post as it started going in circular logic, but I got the jist of it. I am sorry that you were picked on as a child, but that's not the issue here. The women here are just getting tired of answering the same questions over and over again. I know it doesn't help you when you are inquiring honestly, but that the risk you take no matter where you ask this type of question. I just find that when my heart and my head conflict, its best and safest to follow my HEAD. Have you thought about speaking with a counsellor about the childhood issue? Hopefully there was something helpful in the answers to your thread.
Author DarkBlue Posted March 2, 2007 Author Posted March 2, 2007 Can't really afford it at the moment... Part of the reason why I'm on a forum like this instead...
norajane Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 It's actually not nearly as complicated as you are making it out to be. Fact: He is married Fact: You work together Fact: Regardless of whether he is flirting because he is merely friendly, is hot for you, would or wouldn't have an affair, feels sorry for your ugly duckling past, is passing the time, flirts with everyone, or even if he's not flirting, whatever - we can't answer why or what he is doing, because we don't know him Fact: Regardless of what he does, you can only control your own actions Fact: He's not confused - he knows he's married Fact: You CANNOT HAVE HIM Fact: You are wasting precious energy and anxiety trying to figure him out Fact: That you are even considering this MM and daydreaming that things could possibly work out between you, shows that you desperately need to step back and need to do it immediately. That you are getting HURT by his behavior or whether he looks in your general direction each day shows that you need to step waaayyyyyy back NOW, because the deeper you get into this, the harder it's going to be to get out. And the fact is, none of this is rocket science. No matter how confused or lost or struggling you are, there is nothing to really struggle over. Married men are a bad riks, always have been always will be. Married men are off limits. Unless you want your heart dragged 3000 miles to hell and back before it is fully broken. Did no one ever tell you this? Do you not understand that marriage means commitment and you leave other people's marriages alone because you will be the one who ends up hurt? If people here provide sympathy to OW who are enmeshed in affairs, it is because it is too late to tell them not to get into one in the first place. And if you read enough threads, you'll see that they don't really get so much sympathy. Instead, they get a lot of tough love telling them the best way to end their pain is to get out of the affair. You have a lot of emotional and self-esteem issues. That's why you have fixated on a married man who can never, ever give you a fulfilling relationship. You're probably afraid of men who can actually be yours. I don't know that we can help you sort all that out for you, but we can - in no uncertain terms - tell you how to avoid messing up your head and your heart even further. But you don't want to hear it. You want this man to loooooove you and to be interested in you and to validate you and to leave his wife and children for you, and nothing we say is going to make that true.
cbl Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 listen to norajane. there are quite a few posters who give really honest and neutral opinions and fair advise to each particular situation; she's one of them. the more you read, the more you'll understand. even if you don't agree with some of the ideas, just keep an open mind. I'm not sure if it's because he can tell that I'm bothered by everything going on and he's not sure what to do, or if it's because he's caught on that I have feelings and maybe he doesn't have them back and is just now realizing he's been giving off misleading signals and is trying to stop just "being himself". I hate the idea of him changing who he is because of me... I don't want to stifle him from being himself because I'm too uptight and let my thoughts get carried away. he's just "being himself". who you see in him is probably who he is. but be careful not to change yourself for him. Go with your heart or your head? Sometimes what is considered wrong is what's right... people telling me to run away as fast as I can.. others telling me to confront him about the flirting and put an end to it... and still others saying by jumping to conclusions good or bad I could be messing up my destiny. this is an open forum where people comment freely. everyone has his own belief and value systems therefore each and everyone reacts differently to your questions - but no one is in that situation but YOU. no one here is going to be responsible for your own actions or participate in your future life. you hold control over your own destiny. no one can screw up your life but yourself. and remember, many of the (x)OW here have gone through painful experience dealing with MMs - so they advise you to run away from the situation. and it's your own choice to make about what you should do based on your own value system.
Author DarkBlue Posted March 2, 2007 Author Posted March 2, 2007 But you don't want to hear it. You want this man to loooooove you and to be interested in you and to validate you and to leave his wife and children for you, and nothing we say is going to make that true. Uhm. No. Again, I wouldn't BE HERE if I didn't want to hear advice. What I don't want to hear though, is people telling me how I feel and think like I and everyone else that comes for help has the exact same problem and were retarded for not following your simple solution like we can just turn our emotions on and off like a light switch or we're all problems can be solved in the same method like a math equation. These are exactly the kind of condesending posts that are pissing me off. I am already fully aware that I shouldn't have feelings for him. I'm working on that. I am already trying my best to avoid seeing him so I DON'T spend precious time and anxiety thinking about him anymore then I have been. I am just expressing that... 1. I'm annoyed at posts (like yours) where the solution is easy! Get over him! 2. Not all of us asking "is he flirting?" want validation that "yes he thinks your hot and totally wants you." 3. Not all of us are looking for "how to find out" if he likes us back. Some of us are just looking for how to handle the situation in the best way if by chance the situation does arise because we have our eyes OPEN and see that the flirting games are gettnig a little ... intensified. We know already this is not good.. but I'm not going to be in denial that I have feelings for him either... because stifling that might be like pulling back a spring. The more I try to squash it the more danger it could pose if I was suddenly caught unawares by him being unceasingly charming one day. It's really annoying to be told "you just don't get it." I GET IT. I just don't get how to cope with it.
boshemia Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Is the only question really should I or shouldn't I? I mean I'm fine with an ego stroking now and then, but a lot of these posts are concerned with stroking a little more than just an ego... Somewhere at home this guy has a wife, possibly kids, maybe even a dog. He isn't just important to them, their whole world revolves around him. The marriage has been rocky at times, but she's hanging on, she still believes in him, and she still loves him or she would have left long ago. Along comes a girl that equals freedom, if only for a little while. He can put the bills, the kids, the dog, and we musn't forget the wife aside... This life is nothing but smoke and mirrors, fantasy nothing more... and the fantasy is what makes it worthwhile.... What about the wife? She isn't the other woman, she is THE woman... I've been there and I would never ever allow myself to cause that much pain to another human being no matter how damned perfect he was for me.
norajane Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Uhm. No. Again, I wouldn't BE HERE if I didn't want to hear advice. What I don't want to hear though, is people telling me how I feel and think like I and everyone else that comes for help has the exact same problem and were retarded for not following your simple solution like we can just turn our emotions on and off like a light switch or we're all problems can be solved in the same method like a math equation. These are exactly the kind of condesending posts that are pissing me off. I am already fully aware that I shouldn't have feelings for him. I'm working on that. I am already trying my best to avoid seeing him so I DON'T spend precious time and anxiety thinking about him anymore then I have been. I am just expressing that... 1. I'm annoyed at posts (like yours) where the solution is easy! Get over him! 2. Not all of us asking "is he flirting?" want validation that "yes he thinks your hot and totally wants you." 3. Not all of us are looking for "how to find out" if he likes us back. Some of us are just looking for how to handle the situation in the best way if by chance the situation does arise because we have our eyes OPEN and see that the flirting games are gettnig a little ... intensified. We know already this is not good.. but I'm not going to be in denial that I have feelings for him either... because stifling that might be like pulling back a spring. The more I try to squash it the more danger it could pose if I was suddenly caught unawares by him being unceasingly charming one day. It's really annoying to be told "you just don't get it." I GET IT. I just don't get how to cope with it. I didn't say get over him (although you should, don't you think?). I said you need to step back, way back from this - that will help you get over him. Instead of worrying about how interested he might be, and whether he might cross the line, or whatnot, you need to remain in control of YOUR ACTIONS because that is all you can control. You have the power to nip this in the bud, but you are allowing yourself to get all confused because you are tempted by this man. You have control over yourself, not him. By controlling your actions, I mean you need to keep things on a professional level at work with him. That means not getting together after hours, that means not spending time glancing over at him to see if he's glancing over at you, that means keeping your conversations on a non-personal level, that means not looking into his eyes and holding the look, that means not fooling yourself into thinking you can be "friends" with him. You are digging your own hole here by focusing so much on what he has or hasn't done, on what he means or doesn't mean, and on and on. For Pete's sake, he brought his wife and children to one of your after-hours "friends" outings! What else can we tell you but to step back and stop pretending to yourself that you can be friends? You can't handle a "friendship" because you already know you have feelings that make you wish it were more. And to respond to your point about the other thread you referenced - most people are not asking how to cope. That was the entire point of that thread. They come here, talk about MM flirting, want to know why and what it means and is he or isn't he interested. They never ask how to shut him down - which can be done with just one look, by the way. They don't say they are disgusted by MM's behavior.
boshemia Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Lol Nora Jane... I had one married man *sniffing around* when hubby and I split "We should go to lunch sometime" "Yes, and you should bring your wife" "You are looking good today" "And how is your wife?" "Would you like to go for a ride?" "Will your wife be joining us" He stopped coming by : ( lol
norajane Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Lol Nora Jane... I had one married man *sniffing around* when hubby and I split "We should go to lunch sometime" "Yes, and you should bring your wife" "You are looking good today" "And how is your wife?" "Would you like to go for a ride?" "Will your wife be joining us" He stopped coming by : ( lol See? That's all I'm trying to say. It's astonishingly easy to shut them down, if that is what you choose to do.
Ripples Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Ditto what NoraJane has said. Really, all this beating of breasts is very unnecessary, you have control over what you want, what you think and what you do. No man can force you to feel, think or act in a way that makes you uncomfortable. If you want an affair, go for it, if you don't, tell him to back the hell off. It's really, really simple. It seems that all your asking for is validation to get involved with a married man and I don't suppose that anyone here is going to give it to you.
frannie Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 I think that people coming here to post and ask for help aren't helped at all by people saying 'ah we get this all the time' etc. If you don't have something helpful to say, don't say anything and all that. However, the OW board is notorious for people posting fake stories that get all of LS involved with throwing mud at people and it's not pretty at times, so that explains why the other thread happened. On to my thoughts about your situation and so on... I'd say you would be better off posting generally about being uncertain about people flirting or being seriously interested and all that if it's a problem for you. Those are genuine difficulties that people have growing up and yes it is a bit of a minefield... and everyone has questions like that to a certain extent, and you probably would get a lot of input (if the posts weren't excessively long... odd how posts about flirting can get really, really long...) The fact that it's a MM you're asking about does lead people to say, well look: who cares what his intent is, he's married. Save yourself a lot of bother and complication... all you're headed for is pain, heartache and frustration. Simple. No, it really is, believe me! I'd add that if you're someone who has trouble reading people, need reassurance, full of uncertainty and lacking confidence, then you're the LAST person on the planet who should get themselves involved with someone married... because even without meaning to he'll destroy whatever fledgeling knowledge and trust and understanding of your own heart and others motivations you have for quite a considerable period. (apologies if anything wasn't relevant to the OP, because I too didn't read it all)
Impudent Oyster Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 I don't know why anyone would tell you to "get over it" because there is nothing to get over...unless I'm missing something. You said this yourself in your first post " I could be making something out to be bigger then it is". Not only could you be making something out to be bigger than it is, you ARE making something out of nothing! Maybe I missed something but has this guy called you? Asked you out (alone, without his wife or co-workers present)? Told you he has feelings for you? Expressed any interest in you AT ALL other than kissing you hello/good-bye and "looking at you" (as well as most people in the vicinity)? Sounds like a friendly work relationship in an industry where kissing salutations is the norm. THERE IS NOTHING THERE. I'm sorry if that seems harsh but you're kidding yourself if you think there is. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and tell me if this guy has said he wants a relationship with you.
Author DarkBlue Posted March 2, 2007 Author Posted March 2, 2007 I didn't say get over him (although you should, don't you think?). I said you need to step back, way back from this - that will help you get over him. Instead of worrying about how interested he might be, and whether he might cross the line, or whatnot, you need to remain in control of YOUR ACTIONS because that is all you can control. You have the power to nip this in the bud, but you are allowing yourself to get all confused because you are tempted by this man. You have control over yourself, not him. By controlling your actions, I mean you need to keep things on a professional level at work with him. That means not getting together after hours, that means not spending time glancing over at him to see if he's glancing over at you, that means keeping your conversations on a non-personal level, that means not looking into his eyes and holding the look, that means not fooling yourself into thinking you can be "friends" with him. You are digging your own hole here by focusing so much on what he has or hasn't done, on what he means or doesn't mean, and on and on. For Pete's sake, he brought his wife and children to one of your after-hours "friends" outings! What else can we tell you but to step back and stop pretending to yourself that you can be friends? You can't handle a "friendship" because you already know you have feelings that make you wish it were more. And to respond to your point about the other thread you referenced - most people are not asking how to cope. That was the entire point of that thread. They come here, talk about MM flirting, want to know why and what it means and is he or isn't he interested. They never ask how to shut him down - which can be done with just one look, by the way. They don't say they are disgusted by MM's behavior. The jist of what your saying is "back off and get over it." despite you saying "that's not what you said" I've already backed off physically. It's all I can do for now. I'm trying to get ahold of my feelings and keep them in check but again it's not something that can be turned on and off like a faucet. You act like it can be, and maybe that's why people resist listening to your "advice". Everything you say in theory is great, but it isn't very realistic. There's a few other things that happened with us I'm not going to go into because it seems like no one ever cares to read these things case by case anyway. I'm not fooling myself into thinkign we can be friends either. I KNOW WE CAN BE FRIENDS. I'm deff. not asking yours or anyone elses permission if we can be friends or not. I'm struggling to figuire out how to handle things emotionally so I can be just his friend...It's just going to be difficult, and yes, I'm working on trying to control MY actions by giving myself a time out right now... but it hurts because I know if I could just stop liking him that way it'd be easy enough to ignore the flirting on his part. I'm sorry you disagree about us not being able to hae a friendship. The rest of what you said does make sense. I can't have him because he's married. I know. I shouldn't be trying to figuire out about "the signals". I know. That's why I didn't bring up any of the new ones this time. I've been trying to stop myself from analyzing anything... it's hard but I know what has to be done. He has been really supportive of me and my career though.. and even though he leads a very busy life he is attempting to fit things in to do as friends... and it's not like I'm being dumb about that either. The outings we agreed on are in public places with lots of other people that know him and me and his family..so it's not like we're doing anything secret behind anyones back. We do have alot in common as in interests.. we're both total geeks at heart and love to make other people laugh.. and scream.. he he.. (horror movie fans) so I really don't think it's absurd or stupid in anyway to want to be able to save this friendship and learn how to cope with wanting something I can't have romantically that I also care about on another level.. because I feel in this situation it's not as easy as running away from him. There's got to be another solution. Like excercises to remind myself we're just friends or.. something. I don't know... but I can't not talk to him forever anyway.. I've just found a temporary solution but we'll have to work togetrher agian eventually... and I really can't imagine just ignoring him or acting like we were never friends. That's just horrible. It might draw attention ot the fact we used to be all buddy buddy best friends around each other too... and could stir up the pot again with the rumours. The rumours are seriously pissing me off so I'm always thinking of what I can do to snuff them. ( and no, they didn't get started because we were being to cuddly or "obvious" or whatever... It's because this one idiot got mad he got fired for being an idiot and said the "real reason" was my mm got him fired because he had "dirt" on "us". My MM friend doesn't have the power to fire him because this guy was in a department that had nothing to do with him. ugh. )
Motor35 Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 I don't understand how you think you can be 'friends' with a married man. I think 'friends' hang out, go to dinner, movies, go shopping, etc... How can that be done with a MM? Maybe I can understand you wanting to be 'friendly' with him, but not friends. How can that truly happen? Seriously?!
Author DarkBlue Posted March 2, 2007 Author Posted March 2, 2007 I don't know why anyone would tell you to "get over it" because there is nothing to get over...unless I'm missing something. You said this yourself in your first post " I could be making something out to be bigger then it is". Not only could you be making something out to be bigger than it is, you ARE making something out of nothing! Maybe I missed something but has this guy called you? Asked you out (alone, without his wife or co-workers present)? Told you he has feelings for you? Expressed any interest in you AT ALL other than kissing you hello/good-bye and "looking at you" (as well as most people in the vicinity)? Sounds like a friendly work relationship in an industry where kissing salutations is the norm. THERE IS NOTHING THERE. I'm sorry if that seems harsh but you're kidding yourself if you think there is. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and tell me if this guy has said he wants a relationship with you. No, He hasn't said he wants to have a relationship with me. He hasn't been your average MM case where he's asking me to go out with him for coffe/tea, lunch, outside of work standard MM who wants to cheat stuff. My situation is odd... alot of hot and cold signals, and we're not in the office enviroment, we're in entertainment.. so flirting playfully isn't really seen as unprofessional. There was an older thread where I said all the stuff he did.. and yeah, there was a bit more then just lil kisses hello and good bye on the cheek.. but all that got me advice wise on here was "you shouldn't want to know" and "run away, your heading into trouble". when I was really specific that I really didn't want to just go NC or cold turkey because I wanted to preserve the friendship. He's awesome and fun to be around. I myself thought maybe I was blowing things out of proportion and would like to agree with you... Im really happy to see someone thinks that could be all it is. i came on here though because he's said and done a few things that are of just enoguh concern that has made me back off and come on here in the past in hopes of being able to prepare "just in case" an akward situation sprung up... also making sure I wasn't blindly heading into trouble... I felt like I was too involved emotionally in the situation to see clearly... and now he's gone and done it again... said something that's like wtf? Boy, I know you didn't mean that.. errr.. or did you? eek. I've felt very back and forth on this whole thing. One minute I think ok this is stupid.. I was misreaeding that whole situation... but then he does something else that just throws me for a loop... and then I'm mad at myself.. not him.. because I let the flirting "mean something" to me when I would tell myself that I wasn't going to... and those points you brought up too... ( he hasn't given me his phone number.. I havn't asked for it and I never offered mine either.. APPARANTLY someone we both know who didn't know he was marreid tried to give him my phone number awhile back though.. 9_9 and he said he wanted it and put it in his phone... *which is really wierd because he didn't call me to rearrange the dates himself when we were supposed to meet up outside of work that day his whole family showed up with him.. he had a co-worker relay the message.* I had a terrible row with this person because they didn't think they did anything wrong and I was like DONT EVER GIVE OUT MY PHONE NUMBER TO ANYONE. I CAN DO IT MYSELF IF I WANT THEM TO HAVE IT . THANKS. The places we've agreed to meet so far are at work or in public with large crowds, so yeah, it's not like he's trying to be all sneaky and slick saying "let's meet here" So far he's not crossed those boundries... so *I hope* it's not like I'm trying to keep a friendship with a scum bag or something. He's not really done anything to disrespect his marriage besides being a terrible(ly cute) flirt. On the "has he said he has feelings?" thing, that's where things get wierd. He has *and this could just be the fact that he's so flirty* said I'm hot, beautiful, pretty several times, says I smell good, said he's always wanted to kiss me, apparantly speaks very fondly of me to others, and most recently said that if we're going to get in trouble for having an affair we haven't had then we would absoloutely have to have sex...because I'm so hot. Matter or principle or Logic or Something along those lines. Of course he was joking around, trying to make light of the situation... because I came to him all upset about it.. so he was probably just trying to get me to laugh.. but at the same time.. his tone and the way he was looking at me when he said it really threw me for a loop. It's things like that I'm trying really hard to ignore. I try laughing it off, changing the subject, saying I really should be going because I'm late. I have a feeling I'm not pulling it off very well though.. he always has this smirk when I do. Those things you asked about is the same reasoning I tried to use in the last thread to defend him because I think maybe there is a possibility he IS just a really flirty guy.. like part of his nature... and this is just a matter of learning to cope with not taking anything he says seriously or reading to much into it.. because it does play with my heart strings some of the things he says and does... but I do think.. er.. hope.. there is a way... to force myself to be stronger and not get all lost in his ... annoyingly.. pretty.. blue eyes.. *sigh* When he talks to me and stuff.
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 What I don't want to hear though, If you post on a public forum, you are going to get all sorts of advice and opinions. Good and bad, some you may relate to and some that may piss you off, but the fact is you involved yourself with a MM who you work with. I am sorry for your past, your childhood...Everybody has gone through similar things, bullying and being made fun of - But in all honesty, that has nothing to do with your situation now and if you're asking for people to "go easy" on you because you can't take harsh words - That's your problem. Most are respectful, and some give harsh tough love advice. If you don't like it, don't respond to it and only reply to the advice that you feel you need.
norajane Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 The jist of what your saying is "back off and get over it." despite you saying "that's not what you said" I've already backed off physically. It's all I can do for now. I'm trying to get ahold of my feelings and keep them in check but again it's not something that can be turned on and off like a faucet. You act like it can be, and maybe that's why people resist listening to your "advice". Everything you say in theory is great, but it isn't very realistic. Of course it's realistic. While you can't turn your feelings on and off like a faucet, you can absolutely cut them short, and eventually allow your feelings to fade. However, by thinking about it so much, by analyzing every little thing so much, by focusing on all these "signs" and "signals", by turning over in your mind every little action, you are not allowing yourself to let go of the feelings. I've been attracted to many married men at work. I know the pull. You're friendly, you have things in common, you laugh so much together, you share personal information, you admire each other, and you know both of you would be more than interested in starting something if he weren't married. I've been there, I get it. But it doesn't have to become a grand obssession, and it won't if you don't feed it constantly with your thoughts. You have to first accept that he is off-limits and unavailable, regardless of what either of you want, wish, hint at, whatever. You have to accept it, and then you have to make a conscious and very firm decision to stop yourself when you start thinking and going off into flights of fancy. When you catch yourself getting lost in his blue eyes, look away. When you're sitting at home questioning what he did and why did he say that and was he looking at me, find a phrase that you can use to shut down your thoughts and think about something else - any phrase, like, "he's with his wife right now" or "I am wasting my brain power and emotions on him again" or "I need to feed the cat" - whatever you want to remind yourself that you have the power to stop your self-destructive thoughts. Stop telling yourself you have no control and 'can't turn it off like a faucet" or you "can't deny your feelings" or "you just can't help it." Yes, you can, though it may take some work, and it may not be all at once. You may not want to, but you can. And, hey, if people want to resist my advice, that is their option to do so. It doesn't offend me, but neither does it change the nature of my advice.
norajane Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 I myself thought maybe I was blowing things out of proportion and would like to agree with you... Im really happy to see someone thinks that could be all it is. Again, regardless of what he's doing and his intentions, YOU are interested in HIM. So unless you start controlling your feelings, you will remain confused and upset and longing for something, which will make your relationship with him difficult. Even if he is harmlessly flirting, it's not harmless to you because you are so attracted. If he isn't harmlessfly flirting, it's even more harmful to you, because it is feeding your attraction. Either way, you lose unless you can let go of the attraction.
puddleofmud Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 It was I who begun said thread; so please allow me to once again reiterate the intent of the thread: It was simply begun because of my personal suspicion regarding the fact that there had been some recent threads on LS that were almost "cookie cutter" in content. THUS, I felt uncomfortable as it may have been that these were posted by the same person registering under different screen names. The intent of the thread was to inquire to others who have been on LS for long enough to observe said "pattern" if they felt the same. As there are often many threads begun by persons who do this kind of thing I felt that was a possibility that this MAY be another situation of that type. That was ALL this was about and no more...perhaps I did not explain this well and it was mis-understood, as well the thread did take on other content (that happens--so be it). The thread was never meant to be discompassionate regarding genuine posts, nor to attack, point fingers, etc. Speaking for myself: there have been too many instances where my time and effort has been wasted by posters who deem to manipulate, bait, attack, etc. that I felt that by pointing out that this may be happening AGAIN was warranted. I also am sure that I offered an explanation within that thread as well. Should the thread have offended you; please accept my personal apology. Best wishes to you and I do hope that you continue to seek what you need here as there are many who are very lovely, kind, and most compassionate. I would not be here if this were not the case...
Trialbyfire Posted March 2, 2007 Posted March 2, 2007 Yup, anyone married is off-limits. I work in an environment with a couple thousand men who are outgoing, charming, wealthy, fun and decent looking if not sometimes drop-dead gorgeous. It's the nature of the business I'm in, due to how lucrative it can be, that attracts these cookie-cutter type men. Most of them are married and for many of them, it rarely stops them from flirting outrageously, hitting on pretty much anything that's half-decent looking. If they can score, they will and do. From what I've seen and heard, they can also be very generous during and at the end of the affair. At the end of the day, you have to say no if that's what you want to do. He might make you feel special but be certain it's not just a ploy to get into your pants or skirt, as you may have it.
Author DarkBlue Posted March 6, 2007 Author Posted March 6, 2007 Again, regardless of what he's doing and his intentions, YOU are interested in HIM. So unless you start controlling your feelings, you will remain confused and upset and longing for something, which will make your relationship with him difficult. Even if he is harmlessly flirting, it's not harmless to you because you are so attracted. If he isn't harmlessfly flirting, it's even more harmful to you, because it is feeding your attraction. Either way, you lose unless you can let go of the attraction. Despite my attempt to make sure I was working days he wasn't in the area we both worked... I guess he switched his days today and so I was sort of forced to work with him the first half of the day. I tried your advice... did my best. I think I did o.k. Not as strong or resolute as I kept telling myself I should be.. but I really just tried to focus on my work and keep convos short and professional. I felt really bad being so short with him but I did it and I dunno if I feel better now or worse... but I think it was the first right step to putting this emotional roller coaster behind me. Thanks.. Sorry for being so angry in my posts... I'm just really frustrated. I think I was trying to find someone else to blame besides me or him. I'm trying hard now to follow the advice, because it makes sense.
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