Difficulty dealing with wife's affair

[Sevenmack]

^And you're right tht communication requires everyone in the relationship to do so. But it also requires being made of strong stuff to tell someone that which they may not want to hear.

 

And this is the problem with women who take gifts they don't want or fake orgasms or what-have-you (and vice versa): They are weak of will and useless as companions in a relationship. They are going to take flight in the face of difficulty -- either in the form of infidelity or less loathesome behavior -- instead of facing issues head-on and being willing to occasionally upset the ones they love.

 

A man should ask and vice versa. But a woman should also tell. No one is so thoughtful that they think of every possibility or question.

[NoIDidn't]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record and/or being attacked by SC for "defending" his W, I will say this again.

 

SC

 

You are not helping yourself. I have a lot of trouble believing that you are nice and happy-go-lucky at home when you come here and attack, attack, attack. Its not healthy nor desirable.

 

I am not defending cheaters or cheating, but there is much to be learned about ONE SELF in this that you are completely missing. This is your opportunity to learn something about yourself to help you. I used my H's EA to help ME, not him, not us. But ME. I had become something that I didn't even recognize and that had to change.

 

The constant "I was a perfect husband" argument is a red flag to anyone who has been around that block before. No one is perfect. Not even you. I don't know you or your W, so I can only go by what you say here in any assessment of you. But I know without a doubt that you are far from perfect, because everyone here is far from perfect despite any protestation.

 

A lot of the things that you have mentioned doing for your W definitely sound nice, but you can't keep patting yourself on the back for the past. You have got to create some new good times to keep the good feelings and comfort in the R there.

 

My R with my H started long distance. He once sent me a t-shirt that he slept in so I could have his scent with me (I know it sounds childish, but I was 21 at the time). I loved it. I sent him one of mine and he loved it. Now being M for over a decade with a few children, if he were to give me a dirty shirt, I would ask him if he forgot where the dirty clothes hampers are. Given this example, it seems silly to do what a 21 year old would like when times have changed and chances are so has your spouse.

 

I hope this isn't too jumbled. I need some coffee......BRB.

[Sevenmack]

^No one is perfect. Not even you. I don't know you or your W, so I can only go by what you say here in any assessment of you. But I know without a doubt that you are far from perfect, because everyone here is far from perfect despite any protestation.

 

Not even me? Damn those people filling my head with lies. Pure lies.

[NoIDidn't]

^No one is perfect. Not even you. I don't know you or your W, so I can only go by what you say here in any assessment of you. But I know without a doubt that you are far from perfect, because everyone here is far from perfect despite any protestation.

 

Not even me? Damn those people filling my head with lies. Pure lies.

 

 

LMAO!!!

 

Thanks for the laughs.

 

I have the affliction myself, but my kids set me straight every time!!

[Sevenmack]

You're welcome. Everyone is afflicted with a sense of self far more glorified than in reality That's the human way of being.

 

But seriously, you have a point: SC needs to realize that he is as much responsible for the infidelity as she is in a certain sense.

 

One can pick a woman that, from day one, does a poor job of communicating her needs and wants, has a warped perception of the rules within the relationship or even, just wants to have sex whenever she wants akin to an open relationship, but doesn't actually make that known. Or, if the marriage has been around for a while: Over time, one can fail to keep the communication up, take one another for granted or worse, let his spouse take him for granted.

 

She's wrong for cheating. But it's not as if he didn't dictate how she should treat him. We are what we allow others to do to us.

[NoIDidn't]

But seriously, you have a point: SC needs to realize that he is as much responsible for the infidelity as she is in a certain sense.

 

I agree with the intent, but not with the wording. I think it would be better to state that he is responsible for his part in the state of the M that led her to justifying her behavior.

 

We betrayeds have a hard time accepting that our M weren't perfect because it means that we aren't perfect. But we aren't. No need in denying it, as no one is.

 

I just hope SC is willing to face this truth before he drives all of those in his real life that really do love him away.

[Salicious Crumb]

SC--

 

I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to answer the "what good is MC" question.

 

I understand that you use the gym and LS to blow off steam which I think is great as it allows you to still be a caring and attentive father at home, but (and mind you I haven't read all your posts so I could be wrong) I think your wife needs to know your anger. You tell us, and that's good, but you need to tell her.

 

Believe me...she knows. She said something about going out with her friends to a bar the other day...I just calmly said, "do you think thats a good idea after what I found out about you?"....I then told her that I am not allowing or disallowing her doing anything...I just told her that not a day goes by, no matter how nice I am towards her, that I don't think about what she did. And I told her she can do whatever she wants...but don't expect to not be locked out of the house.

 

MC will give you the opportunity to be in a safe environment to release your anger at the person who caused it. It's not so your wife can tell you all the things you SHOULD have done, because the impetus to cheat was on HER, not you.

 

I dunno...i have heard some horror stories of the therapist trying to get the betrayed to understand that it was pretty much the betrayed's fault that the SO cheated. Its like if we don't break our backs and meet EVERY little picky need a SO has, no matter how much your own needs are being met, that it will lead to cheating. So basically that is like saying, you need to bust your hump to keep her from cheating...and if thats the case...then f#ck it. Nobody meets their SO's ENTIRE list of "needs".

I never got blowjobs....should I now go out and get them from someone who will give them?

 

You deserve to be able to tell her (in a structured environment so it doesn't snowball in a thousand different directions) exactly what you've told us. Holding it in will cause you stress and it's hard to survive day-to-day with that kind of burden.

 

Make no mistake...I have told her all I have told you guys and more. I just choose to make an effort to not do that every day since I found out.

 

Regardless, I'm very sorry for the circumstances, I don't think I'd handle it well at all if My Fair Husband were to cheat on me. Unfortunately for him I'd say screw the gym and just become a screaming banshee at home.

 

Best wishes.

 

Actually my going to the gym kills 2 birds with one stone.

 

The primary "need" that I am fulfilling is working on myself and doing this for me. The secondary reason, and it only became a secondary reason after I found out how she felt...is she is now not comfortable with me looking good. She is now worried that I will cheat on her and leave her...even though she knows I would never lower myself to that.

 

So its kind of poetic justice.

[Salicious Crumb]

The constant "I was a perfect husband" argument is a red flag to anyone who has been around that block before. No one is perfect. Not even you. I don't know you or your W' date=' so I can only go by what you say here in any assessment of you. But I know without a doubt that you are far from perfect, because everyone here is far from perfect despite any protestation.[/quote']

 

Well great. You just gave everyone a reason to cheat if you believe the "entitlement" crap the people who have cheated in here are spewing.

 

The weekend is coming up...maybe I'll take you up on that.

 

A lot of the things that you have mentioned doing for your W definitely sound nice, but you can't keep patting yourself on the back for the past. You have got to create some new good times to keep the good feelings and comfort in the R there.

 

So I have to bust my ass even harder to simply stave off her cheating on me?.....oh brother.

 

Sorry, I sure as hell never had all of my "needs" met by her...but unlike others who use this as an excuse for their own cheating, I will not cheat.

I am not so needy or shallow that when faced with a little dissappointment that I will go out and find gratification elsewhere....I leave that to the weak minded.

 

My R with my H started long distance. He once sent me a t-shirt that he slept in so I could have his scent with me (I know it sounds childish, but I was 21 at the time). I loved it. I sent him one of mine and he loved it. Now being M for over a decade with a few children, if he were to give me a dirty shirt, I would ask him if he forgot where the dirty clothes hampers are. Given this example, it seems silly to do what a 21 year old would like when times have changed and chances are so has your spouse.

 

Well...then by the logic of some here, then you should have went out and cheated on him if he gave you that dirty shirt. I mean that is no longer a need of yours and since your "new needs" aren't being met...you see what I'm getting at here?

[Salicious Crumb]

I agree with the intent' date=' but not with the wording. I think it would be better to state that he is responsible for his part in the state of the M that led her to justifying her behavior.[/quote']

 

So basically I should sit her down and say..."look honey..I now realize that all of my efforts fell short and I really need to break my back to keep you from cheating...its all my fault...I am sorry....so I will be at your beckon call for EVERYTHING that you want to keep you at home...I will cut off my right arm if I have to."

[mrmaximum]

But why isn't it a man's job to ask? People aren't always going to volunteer information, even to SOs. I don't think its fair to say that it isn't your job to ask. It is just as much your job to ask as it is her job to tell. It could be as simple as "I got you roses last time but I want to get you something different. What would you prefer?"

 

Its hard to tell someone that you don't like their offering. And let's face it, men are fragile. I once told my husband not to buy me flowers because I didn't like them. He interrupted me angrily because he felt that I should appreciate his effort. If he would have let me finish, I would have told him it was because of my allergies. I am horribly allergic to flowers. He saw me sneezing and with swollen, runny eyes several times after his flowers.

 

If a woman meets Mr. Angry Man every time she speaks up about what she wants and really desires - especially when what he has been doing is seriously missing the mark - she is not going to do so anymore.

 

I don't think communication can be simplified into "jobs". Its everybody's job.

 

You are right I shouldn't have put it like that. It's just that I have heard that excuse time and time again. I think about what things are like with my fiancee, if there is something that she would prefer, she tells me. She does it in such a way that I know that she appreciates the offering that to make her even more happy....you get the idea. But you are damn right there, it is everybody's job and I still think that more women should learn to use their mouths, communication is a two way street! Remember if he isn't told that she doesn't like so and so, how's he supposed to know that she should get something better? And also remember one more thing, what would you do if you where the one constantly making the effort and then constantly asking 'what do you want?'

[mrmaximum]

I got this one Crumb. Sevenmack, Noididn't I don't know if you guys have all of Crumb's story but let me tell you this. The sitaution went down BEFORE they got married, he only found out about it recently. She never told him that there where problems, in fact as far as he knew that things where on the up and up. Now as fas as I am concerned there are no good reasons to cheat, however, hers was as dumb as they come, it had nothing to do with him being a good boyfriend/fiancee or the like. Listen, I am always up for a new adventure when you are young and unattached, but the deal is that you close one window before you open another and you don't treat people like they are disposable possesions!! That is why Crumb is so angry, what do you do when you've done everything that you can and it's STILL not enough? Gang, when people hear about a husband cheating they assume that he's an a$$. When they hear about a wife cheating, they assume that her husband's and a$$. Gang, female pigs do exist, and I have read case studies on ivillage.com about women cheating for disgusting reasons. Not every woman is an angel, yeah?

[Sevenmack]

Mrmaximum writes: Not every woman is an angel, yeah?

 

Of course not. And I know SC's backstory.

 

What concerns me is that SC remains so bitter that he's hurting himself. As much as his bitterness may emotional bruise and hurt her, it will also crystallize her reasoning for letting another man bust a nut in her. She suffers little on that score. The bitterness, however, is eating him up inside and won't make it easier to ultimately heal and move on.

 

Taking care of oneself is key in maintaining one's own stability. And it's the job of each one of us to do the job for ourselves. At some point, he must deal with his problems. He must also work on assuring that he doesn't repeat any patterns that, if he leaves her, will lead to him ending up with another strumpet who treats him badly.

[Mz. Pixie]

If a woman meets Mr. Angry Man every time she speaks up about what she wants and really desires - especially when what he has been doing is seriously missing the mark - she is not going to do so anymore.

 

I don't think communication can be simplified into "jobs". Its everybody's job.

 

Yes, it is. I always communicated to my ex exactly what I wanted out of our marriage- ie, what was missing. His main excuse was he was too busy to work on our marriage...............

 

So everything isn't as black and white- there are two sides to every story- just like not every cheater tries to talk to their so about their problems, there are some that do.

[Mz. Pixie]

I am not so needy or shallow that when faced with a little dissappointment that I will go out and find gratification elsewhere....I leave that to the weak minded.

 

 

 

 

A little disappointment? Is that what you think most people cheat over??

 

I can tell you I most certainly didn't cheat over a little disappointment.

 

Was the cheating wrong? Yes. Should I have ended the marriage before I did that?? Absolutely. But I'm certainly not nor have I ever been shallow or weak minded. I've survived incredible abuse in my lifetime and no one who has ever suffered what I have would be considered weak minded. If I were weak minded I would have checked myself out a long time ago.

 

You're generalizing based on your own situation. I'm telling you it's not always like that.

 

Your wife cheated on you before you were married and you're just now finding out?? I think you're enjoying punishing her. How long do you think she's going to put up with that?? If you're not ever going to forgive her why don't you just cut her loose???

[Scrivdog]

If a man has been a good husband and the wife still cheats, then I don't know how the guy is ever going to feel safe in that marriage. If at least he was a heavy drinker, wife beater, or was somehow neglectful, then I at least he knows he's got some control.But what the hell do you want SC to do? Has the wife pointed anything out that was missing in the marriage before? I gather from his posts that she gave every indication that everything was ok. In fact they were having great sex!I'd have a helluva time with that one honestly.

[Mz. Pixie]

If a man has been a good husband and the wife still cheats, then I don't know how the guy is ever going to feel safe in that marriage. If at least he was a heavy drinker, wife beater, or was somehow neglectful, then I at least he knows he's got some control.But what the hell do you want SC to do? Has the wife pointed anything out that was missing in the marriage before? I gather from his posts that she gave every indication that everything was ok. In fact they were having great sex!I'd have a helluva time with that one honestly.

 

 

 

And he's not giving her the opportunity to tell him because they are not in marriage counseling from what I can gather.

 

What he's saying is "She ruined the marriage and my life and it's up to her to fix it" Well I agree that she should work hard to regain his trust and to fix the relationship but until she gets to the bottom of WHY she cheated and communicates that to him, things will not get better.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Your wife cheated on you before you were married and you're just now finding out?? I think you're enjoying punishing her. How long do you think she's going to put up with that?? If you're not ever going to forgive her why don't you just cut her loose???

 

Crumb

 

I have not followed in detail, but I get the jist of your situ.

 

I just wanted to give my experience with my wifes affair in regards to what MzP said.

 

IMO you are ANGRY....rightfulyl so. I was too....for a long time. Its part of the 5 stages you will go thru dealing with betrayal.

 

I too wanted to punish my wife. i wanted her to feel the pain I felt. I wanted to make her hurt. And I did just that. I didnt let go, I hung on tight. I had a very hard time putting it behind me and moving on. It was something almost out of my control...like my inner core need to do this.

 

This went on for a while. Everyday...something would come up and I would relate it to what she did to me. over and over....

 

Untill one day, I realized. This is NOT helping ME or HER or our marriage relationship. I decided that I must TRY to put it behind me. i actually had to WORK at it.

 

To this day, it still comes up...but not as much. And when it does, I can see in her eyes, the pain....I can feel it. She knows she made a bad choice....but there comes a time were the betrayed has to ACCEPT (another step in the 5 stages) what happened and choose a path to go. I cant keep throwing it in her face....becasue its hurting us not helping us.

 

So now, when "IT" comes up, I find myself verbaly saying out loud...."I am not going to talk about this, it doesnt help me" and I dont do it.

 

YES...inside I may be reeling....but thats somehting I need to overcome.

 

I guess what i am saying is, sooner or later, youhave to make a decision on where you want to be. Becasuse as MzP said.....your wife wont take years of "in your face look what you did to me attitude". She will come to a point were she WILL be forced to decide what to do.

 

And if you truley want to make this marriage work....you HAVE to let go. In your own time of course.

 

and if you just cant forgive and not bring it up unless its absolutely nessecary (i choose not to say and forget, becasue I doubt any BS can ever forget..i know i wont). if you cant seem to do this.

 

Then let her go man...but somwthing tells me, you truly love her and dont want to leave....I think you just need to enter acceptance stage and move on brother. its hard to do...believe me....I still strugle....but to live everyday with anger towards my wife just was not helping our situ.

[ThumbingMyWay]

And he's not giving her the opportunity to tell him because they are not in marriage counseling from what I can gather.

 

What he's saying is "She ruined the marriage and my life and it's up to her to fix it" Well I agree that she should work hard to regain his trust and to fix the relationship but until she gets to the bottom of WHY she cheated and communicates that to him, things will not get better.

 

ding ding ding

 

MC is a must Crumb. its nuetral ground to explore the WHY.

 

you BOTH need to exaimine what led her to cheat prior to marriage.

 

I got a wealth of info from MC.

 

You both need to find out EXACTLY what you need from each other. Then you both need to find ways to meet those needs. EVEN if you think a need is dumb...it may not be for the spouse. Thats were you both need to understand WHY the need is needed.

 

For example. Its important for my wife to have me listen to her problems. She dont want me to fix them, she just wants me to understand and support her in how the problem makes her feel. In the past I would always be devils advocate and tell her what she should have done....or how to fix it. But thats not what she wanted....she wanted support from me, even though I may not totally agree with what ever the problem was or how she handled it. She wanted me to understand how it made her feel.

 

And after learning this NEW found need, I do just that. I listen for FEELING words and those are the comments I address now, not the problem. And I tell ya....after those converations...I get nice heart warming hugs....and right htere...i know I am doing the right thing. Were in the past when I was Mr Fix it...I would get the "ahhhh...just forget it, you dont understand" cold shoulder.

 

Now compile that in 18 years together.....and you can see where my actions pushed her away. you get what I am saying? NO I dont take blame for her choice in having an affiar, she ownes 100% of that. But as I look back , there were things I needed to do differently to keep us in tune with eachother.

 

BUT in order to stay "in tune"...you BOTH need to get help in finding out what tuning fork to use at any givin situ.

[Scrivdog]

And he's not giving her the opportunity to tell him because they are not in marriage counseling from what I can gather.

 

What he's saying is "She ruined the marriage and my life and it's up to her to fix it" Well I agree that she should work hard to regain his trust and to fix the relationship but until she gets to the bottom of WHY she cheated and communicates that to him, things will not get better.

 

Couldn't he just ask her why she did it? Then she responds with, "You never did x,y, or z no matter how much I asked you. And I needed x, y, and z and I looked for it with OM". Why do they need a MC for that?

[Salicious Crumb]

I got this one Crumb. Sevenmack, Noididn't I don't know if you guys have all of Crumb's story but let me tell you this. The sitaution went down BEFORE they got married,

 

Well I have very good reason to believe the cheating happened while we were married too...I just never saw it before because I was TOO trusting and didn't think she'd ever betray me.

 

That'll never happen again.

[Salicious Crumb]

ding ding ding

 

MC is a must Crumb. its nuetral ground to explore the WHY.

 

you BOTH need to exaimine what led her to cheat prior to marriage.

 

I got a wealth of info from MC.

 

Like what? What can a therapist possibly say to make you feel better about her cheating?

 

Now compile that in 18 years together.....and you can see where my actions pushed her away. you get what I am saying?

 

Nope...because all of my needs sure as hell weren't being met by her, but you didn't see me going off and sticking my dick in other women because of it.

 

 

NO I dont take blame for her choice in having an affiar, she ownes 100% of that. But as I look back , there were things I needed to do differently to keep us in tune with eachother.

 

You mean there were things you needed to do to keep her from cheating.

 

BUT in order to stay "in tune"...you BOTH need to get help in finding out what tuning fork to use at any givin situ.

 

I don't know man...that would be like me saying, "she doesn't give blowjobs and never will...so I'll go get them somewhere else"....this is just an example...no I don't care if I get blowjobs...its just one example of how she could keep me happy.

 

It just seems funny to me...to understand why and to have to break your back on top of the love and consideration one already gave their SO...to say you have to bust your hump is basically like emotional and relationship extortion.

 

It would never occur to me to go out and cheat on my wife if she wasn't meeting one or many of my needs. And thats what sickens me about the people on here that have cheated that put the blame on the betrayed.

Doesn't common decency mean anything to anyone?

[Salicious Crumb]

A little disappointment? Is that what you think most people cheat over??

 

I can tell you I most certainly didn't cheat over a little disappointment.

 

Was the cheating wrong? Yes. Should I have ended the marriage before I did that?? Absolutely.

 

Well if it was more than just a little dissappointment, why did she not tell me and marry me anyway?.. I mean, If she was dissappointed with me in some way, why in the f#ck did she marry me??

 

But I'm certainly not nor have I ever been shallow or weak minded. I've survived incredible abuse in my lifetime and no one who has ever suffered what I have would be considered weak minded. If I were weak minded I would have checked myself out a long time ago.

 

If you are saying you cheated because you were abused or something like that...that is a far cry from my situation. There was no "major" dissappointment from me with regards to neglect or especially abuse.

 

You're generalizing based on your own situation. I'm telling you it's not always like that.

 

Thats why it was qualified by me saying "little dissappointment"...if you are saying you were abused...that is NOT "little"...so it didn't apply to you.

 

Your wife cheated on you before you were married and you're just now finding out?? I think you're enjoying punishing her. How long do you think she's going to put up with that??

 

And there is another problem...I have to "put up" with the knowledge of what she did for the rest of my f#cking life...but she can't handle a little punishment within a short period of time?

 

Besides, the only punishment is that she is no longer to be acting like a single woman. And I don't dissallow her to do anything...she just knows there will now be consequences to her actions.

 

She knows that I will now not put up with her clubbing it any longer....and yes...I just found out 6 months ago from a friend of hers that was with her when she was doing the cheating. Actually I was a little pissed at her friend and said, "that would have been good information to know BEFORE we got married"...and this friend was at our wedding.

[Salicious Crumb]

But seriously, you have a point: SC needs to realize that he is as much responsible for the infidelity as she is in a certain sense.

 

 

Well if I ever did want to go out and cheat on my wife...yall just made me feel a hell of alot better if I do.

 

She never has met all of my needs...so with that statement above from 7mack, she will be as much responsible for the infidelity if I decide to get my needs met elsewhere....afterall..thats what everyone is saying.

 

So it will be her fault if I get some strange elsewhere.

[Sevenmack]

Here's the thing SC: I definitely understand where you're coming from and I know the back story. Sympathy for you can be found in this corner.

 

But at some point, the bitterness hurts you more than it will ever hurt her. For one thing, your anger will simply crystallize for her the rationalizations she's made for sleeping around on you. Basically she'll let herself off the hook because she's not being forced to fully confront her choices.

 

Meanwhile, it's your mental health that suffers. You're the one that's carrying around the bitterness, not her. She'll get beat up emotionally, but that's about it. You'll suffer twice from her actions, this time because of your bitterness. And then you'll likely suffer a third time after you leave her or she leaves you, when you try to form a new relationship and repeat the same patterns that has caused problems to this one.

 

Whether or not MC and dealing with your bitterness helps her or not -- and in all honesty, it doesn't really matter -- or even helps salvage the marriage (or not), it really matters for you. You'll be free of bitterness and be ready to make the changes in your life that will allow you to become a better person. But that's only if you resolve the bitterness.

[Sup]

And he's not giving her the opportunity to tell him because they are not in marriage counseling from what I can gather.

 

What he's saying is "She ruined the marriage and my life and it's up to her to fix it" Well I agree that she should work hard to regain his trust and to fix the relationship but until she gets to the bottom of WHY she cheated and communicates that to him, things will not get better.

 

 

She cheated because she wanted to. The thing that's tearing up SC is the fact that she cheated BEFORE they were married, NEVER said ANYTHING about it and married him, she lead him on from the start. Now SC feels like she wasted his life by not being forthcoming. SC even stated that he would have called off the wedding had he known. She defrauded him, Period.