Woggle Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 They only will really change if it benefits them in some way. Exactly. That is why if a person chooses to forgive a cheater they at least need to punish them. If a person is wrong in a relationship they should have to suffer before the betrayed party forgives them.
serial muse Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 They only will really change if it benefits them in some way. I think there's a lot of truth to this, cynical as it sounds.
Freedom Now Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Gotta agree with you there, SC. It's sick to tell someone you love them and cheat on them. THAT is crazy making behavior.
Izzar Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 I am just really curious in SC's situation. His wife cheated & he still doubts that she'll be faithful. If you don't have 100% trust in your partner, what good is staying in the relationship? Is it even possible to build that trust up again to 100%?
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 27, 2007 Author Posted February 27, 2007 Yes. If there is no trust it will eventually ruin the marriage. Its not like I don't trust my wife to go somewhere like shopping or to her sister's house....I don't ask her where she is going all the time...I don't keep tabs on her. I figure if she cheats again, I will kick her out of the house. As far as not completely trusting her, what I mean by that is, I do not want her going to clubs drinking with the tramps she calls friends any longer. I won't stop her from going, but she knows there will be consequences to her actions from here on out. So she has to decide, what is more important...her family...or acting like she is single.
Freedom Now Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 But a person that cheats on their spouse does not respect them and how can you trust a person that does not respect you. If a person has earned my trust then they have already earned my respect. I understand, but for the cheater, there is a disrespect for his spouse. This is the cause of the breakdown of the marriage, I believe. I think there must be a mutual respect. Both partners need to respect each other. And in the case of cheating, unfortunately, the seething disrespect that the cheater has for the cheated must be turned around. The cheated one must get the respect back for the relationship to be healed and changed. (As is written in "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. Dobson.)P
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 27, 2007 Author Posted February 27, 2007 I am just really curious in SC's situation. His wife cheated & he still doubts that she'll be faithful. If you don't have 100% trust in your partner, what good is staying in the relationship? That may be a great way to look at a bf/gf situation...or even a marriage with no kids...but when kids are involved...the more responsible partner, the one the did not cheat, has responsibilities beyond worrying about gaining 100% trust again. Its a little more complicated when married and you have kids. Is it even possible to build that trust up again to 100%? In my opinion...no...not 100%. I think you can gain a certain level of trust back...but never 100%.
serial muse Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 I am just really curious in SC's situation. His wife cheated & he still doubts that she'll be faithful. If you don't have 100% trust in your partner, what good is staying in the relationship? Is it even possible to build that trust up again to 100%? I think it is far too soon in SC's recovery process to say. Maybe he'll never get over it, but maybe he'll be in such a different place a year from now that he won't recognize himself. So much depends on both him and his wife, and how they choose to go forward from here. It won't just be how he acts from here on in, it'll also be how she chooses to act. There are a lot of variables. Six months after D-Day, though, means he's still quite raw. I wouldn't assume that it's at all possible to predict the future of his relationship from what he's saying at this point.
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 SC I have a question are you in MC? If you both are still together , then my understanding is you forgave the affair. Then like it or not...a home was destroyed.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 27, 2007 Author Posted February 27, 2007 SC I have a question are you in MC? If you both are still together , then my understanding is you forgave the affair. I have forgiven nothing yet....whether I forgive will be up to her. and no, we are not in MC.
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 What do you mean? Forgiving will be up to her? Why dont you try MC? It might be good for both of you. I have forgiven nothing yet....whether I forgive will be up to her. and no, we are not in MC.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 27, 2007 Author Posted February 27, 2007 What do you mean? Forgiving will be up to her? She is the one that ruined our marriage...so the burden of effort in repairing it and gaining any level of my trust, which is going to be damn hard, lies with her. Why dont you try MC? It might be good for both of you. How so?
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Gaining your trust also is an effort in your part of forgiving her. I think MC would help you both out if you want your marriage to work. Something had to break down within the relationship to have this end result. Dont you want this to workout? Or are you waiting for the next time it happens? I know this. If someone always suspects you doing something and you really arent doing it. Sooner or later that person is going to say the hell with it and they will go ahead and do. Ex: If you treat her like she is going to cheat again and she isnt. Then sooner or later she will again. She will at least be doing something to be getting excused of. ( Do you understand what i am saying) She is the one that ruined our marriage...so the burden of effort in repairing it and gaining any level of my trust, which is going to be damn hard, lies with her. How so?
Izzar Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Gaining your trust also is an effort in your part of forgiving her. I think MC would help you both out if you want your marriage to work. Something had to break down within the relationship to have this end result. Dont you want this to workout? Or are you waiting for the next time it happens? I know this. If someone always suspects you doing something and you really arent doing it. Sooner or later that person is going to say the hell with it and they will go ahead and do. Ex: If you treat her like she is going to cheat again and she isnt. Then sooner or later she will again. She will at least be doing something to be getting excused of. ( Do you understand what i am saying) I have to disagree with you yousaveme. (Sooner or later she will cheat again) I don't agree with that statement at all. It sounds like she learned a major lesson here & still has some work to do on gaining more of her h's trust. MC only helped me & my exh separate. MC doesn't always help to keep the marriage going on a positive note.
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 MC could help in finding out what is best for each person. Instead of just dwelling in the problem day in and day out.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 27, 2007 Author Posted February 27, 2007 Gaining your trust also is an effort in your part of forgiving her. I think MC would help you both out if you want your marriage to work. Something had to break down within the relationship to have this end result. Dont you want this to workout? Or are you waiting for the next time it happens? I know this. If someone always suspects you doing something and you really arent doing it. Sooner or later that person is going to say the hell with it and they will go ahead and do. Ex: If you treat her like she is going to cheat again and she isnt. Then sooner or later she will again. She will at least be doing something to be getting excused of. ( Do you understand what i am saying) So you are saying I should be fine with her going clubbing with her friends and coming home at 4am while I stay at home with our kids like a good little husband?
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 I am not saying that. You should talk with her about it. Maybe a third party like a MC could help you understand her and her understand you. But as far as forgiving that is up to you. So you are saying I should be fine with her going clubbing with her friends and coming home at 4am while I stay at home with our kids like a good little husband?
Babybird Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 But as far as forgiving that is up to you. Exactly YSM! She can't make you forgive her no matter what she does. That's your decision and it will be based on her actions but it is completely up to you to find a way to forgive and move on with ther marriage or get a divorce.
yousaveme Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 You hit the nail on the head BabyBird Exactly YSM! She can't make you forgive her no matter what she does. That's your decision and it will be based on her actions but it is completely up to you to find a way to forgive and move on with ther marriage or get a divorce.
Guest Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 I am just really curious in SC's situation. His wife cheated & he still doubts that she'll be faithful. If you don't have 100% trust in your partner, what good is staying in the relationship? Is it even possible to build that trust up again to 100%? No, it isn't ever possible to trust 100% again. Counselor told me not to even expect that. He said his goal was to help me trust my husband 95% as expecting 100% trust again was something that was never going to happen and we shouldn't expect it to. I don't think 100% trust is a reality anyway. The only person you can truely have 100% trust in is yourself.
a4a Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 So you are saying I should be fine with her going clubbing with her friends and coming home at 4am while I stay at home with our kids like a good little husband? document her doings and cut her loose. how old is she 22?
mrmaximum Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 You go on and on about everything you have done for her. Which is great, but did you ever stop once to ask her how she felt? For many years I would just spur of the moment buy my ex wife roses. Every woman likes roses right? Well not her, but she never once told me until after we were divorced. She even brought it up once how I didnt know her as well as I thought or I would have KNOWN she didnt like roses. What my point is, is we as men try and do what we feel our partners want us to do, but quite often we dont ASK them. We assume that what we are doing is right. Maybe you gave her TO MUCH attention. Maybe you didnt let her feel independent enough. These are things you HAVE to know in order to truly know your wife. You may think you know her, but with the way you come across on here I doubt you have taken to the time REALLY know her inside and out. That is BS right there. Bonehead, you are a hell of a man to do that sort of thing, it obvious that your heart was in the right place and that is where I get steamed!! She never once told you that she didn't like roses? Was she waiting for you to read her mind? Gang, we are adults here, I haven't had any super powers since I was 8 , maybe other people are different, i dunno!! So how are you supposed to know about how to fix the problem when she stays mum? It wasn't your job to ask, you where showing appreciation of her, it was her job to tell you what she prefered. The alternative, don't do anything at all, I bet most women won't like that, right? Do you go to the docter and just sit there while he reads your mind or lays hands on you and finds the problem? No, he asks you and you tell him what is bothering you. You didn't have the problem bonehead, she did for expecting you to 'just know'. Thats ridiculous, and more women need to wise up. Communication is where two people talk and listen back and forth, reading minds hasn't been perfected yet!! You where given a mouth, use it!!
Sevenmack Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 Agreed a4a. While I can't blame SC for being bitter -- so would I under such a scenario -- at some point, you got to either decide to work things out with her or move on. Being bitter doesn't help SC at all in his ultimate goal of gaining back his emotional wellbeing. While it makes him feel better for a time, he will still be wrestling with the feeling of powerlessness that comes when a wife betrays a marriage. Nor will beting up on her emotionally do much in restoring the marriage, if that's what he wants. If she thinks she's justified in the infidelity, then beating her up emotionally simply hardens her resolve and justifies her rationalization of the irrational. Chances are that she doesn't even understand all his bitterness. And that's the worst part of all: He's huffing and puffing while she's just upset about being revealed as a skank and scared of the possibility of losing her marriage, if she's even concerned about that. Before he even gets marriage counseling, he needs to take a week away from the family, go off somewhere and relax. Then think about whether he wants to stay or go. If he decides to stay, he must work on ways to resolve the bitterness while fixing the marriage. If not, then he should simply divorce her. Life's too short and too long to stew in the bitterness.
NoIDidn't Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 That is BS right there. Bonehead, you are a hell of a man to do that sort of thing, it obvious that your heart was in the right place and that is where I get steamed!! She never once told you that she didn't like roses? Was she waiting for you to read her mind? Gang, we are adults here, I haven't had any super powers since I was 8 , maybe other people are different, i dunno!! So how are you supposed to know about how to fix the problem when she stays mum? It wasn't your job to ask, you where showing appreciation of her, it was her job to tell you what she prefered. The alternative, don't do anything at all, I bet most women won't like that, right? Do you go to the docter and just sit there while he reads your mind or lays hands on you and finds the problem? No, he asks you and you tell him what is bothering you. You didn't have the problem bonehead, she did for expecting you to 'just know'. Thats ridiculous, and more women need to wise up. Communication is where two people talk and listen back and forth, reading minds hasn't been perfected yet!! You where given a mouth, use it!! But why isn't it a man's job to ask? People aren't always going to volunteer information, even to SOs. I don't think its fair to say that it isn't your job to ask. It is just as much your job to ask as it is her job to tell. It could be as simple as "I got you roses last time but I want to get you something different. What would you prefer?" Its hard to tell someone that you don't like their offering. And let's face it, men are fragile. I once told my husband not to buy me flowers because I didn't like them. He interrupted me angrily because he felt that I should appreciate his effort. If he would have let me finish, I would have told him it was because of my allergies. I am horribly allergic to flowers. He saw me sneezing and with swollen, runny eyes several times after his flowers. If a woman meets Mr. Angry Man every time she speaks up about what she wants and really desires - especially when what he has been doing is seriously missing the mark - she is not going to do so anymore. I don't think communication can be simplified into "jobs". Its everybody's job.
My Fair Katie Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 SC-- I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to answer the "what good is MC" question. I understand that you use the gym and LS to blow off steam which I think is great as it allows you to still be a caring and attentive father at home, but (and mind you I haven't read all your posts so I could be wrong) I think your wife needs to know your anger. You tell us, and that's good, but you need to tell her. MC will give you the opportunity to be in a safe environment to release your anger at the person who caused it. It's not so your wife can tell you all the things you SHOULD have done, because the impetus to cheat was on HER, not you. You deserve to be able to tell her (in a structured environment so it doesn't snowball in a thousand different directions) exactly what you've told us. Holding it in will cause you stress and it's hard to survive day-to-day with that kind of burden. Regardless, I'm very sorry for the circumstances, I don't think I'd handle it well at all if My Fair Husband were to cheat on me. Unfortunately for him I'd say screw the gym and just become a screaming banshee at home. Best wishes.
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