Babybird Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 Its not that I don't want to hear it....I do want to do whats good for me...actually..thats the only thing right now, besides my kids, that I am interested in at the moment. Whether or not what I do is good for my wife is really up to her now. She has the amends to make. I've seen the question asked before but I think I have missed the answer if you gave one...do you love your wife? How exactly can she make amends? By not going to clubs and remaining faithful? I'm just curious what you have in mind.
bonehead Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Because what are they really gonna tell me...that I didn't do enough on top of everything I did just to keep someone from cheating?? I mean really...if a counselor says she has issues of her own to deal with...ok...how does that mitigate the betrayal i feel? And if the counselor says that I didn't show her enough attention..or some BS like that....oh ya...like I wouldn't want to get up and walk right out of that session knowing that is complete and utter BS. Ok I have a question for you. You go on and on about everything you have done for her. Which is great, but did you ever stop once to ask her how she felt? For many years I would just spur of the moment buy my ex wife roses. Every woman likes roses right? Well not her, but she never once told me until after we were divorced. She even brought it up once how I didnt know her as well as I thought or I would have KNOWN she didnt like roses. What my point is, is we as men try and do what we feel our partners want us to do, but quite often we dont ASK them. We assume that what we are doing is right. Maybe you gave her TO MUCH attention. Maybe you didnt let her feel independent enough. These are things you HAVE to know in order to truly know your wife. You may think you know her, but with the way you come across on here I doubt you have taken to the time REALLY know her inside and out.
bonehead Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 People say that its up to the offended spouse to define what is an affair, not the spouse having the affair. At the same time its up to the spouse to determine if you are meeting their needs. You can not sit back and say you have done everything right. thats up to her. Im not saying that its an excuse to have an affair, but you really need to stop assuming you were doing everything right.
GreenEyedLady Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Well thats me...I was once a loving husband who adored his wife...until I found out it wasn't reciprocated. I would like to be that person again...but don't see how when I wake up at night and all I see is a cheater lying next to me. So here is another person and family basically destroyed...well...not the family anyway...not yet if she doesn't start showing signs of actually wanting to change. And for that, I have no tolerance for people destroying their own families, or the people that are accomplices to it. Love keeps no records of wrongs... I hope SC that you are able to forgive your W and give her another chance...because YOU are helping to destroy yourself, your W and your family... whether you see it or not...
MoonGirl Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I'm not here to really discuss all these points you're bringing up, but I'll address your question to me. Yes I cheated on my ex. Never had any intentions, but that's how it turned out. Did it destroy him? Yes, to an extent. Did it destroy who he was? No. See I didn't have a H "like you". I had a husband who waited 5 hours to take me to the ER so he could sleep, after I had fallen down a flight of steps and lay on the floor waiting because I couldn't walk. I had a H who got awards, thanked his mom and dad and all the little people who helped get him there. Never a word of thanks to me for helping him or being there for him. But he certainly depended on me doing those things. I had a H who, when he found out that I was in the ER on another occasion, said "This better be something." Turned out I did need an operation. I had a H who, when I went out food shopping or whatever, would sit and watch tv, while my little boys looked out the window, saw all their friends playing with each other and their parents, and couldn't go out because he needed to watch a game. I had a H who drank incessantly and missed work often. I had a H who didn't even give me a thank you or a kiss when our children were born. No birthday presents or christmas presents because "we didn't need to do that stuff." Took me out to dinner (by ourselves) twice in 17 years. There's more, but that's enough. Is that a good reason to cheat? No, I was wrong. Did he learn anything? No. He's more concerned with the new pool he installed, buying a boat and refurnishing his new home than to pay child support. Did I try to talk to him during all those years? Yup. Got me nowhere. Do I harbor bitterness for the way he treated ME all those years? Nope. I learned a whole lot about myself though. And I'm better off without him. Did he do this "stuff" on purpose to hurt me? Nope! Did I tolerate HIS behavior. Yup! Until I realized I could do it no more and left. I needed to do what was right for me. Anyway, whether you want to know it or not, there has to be a reason she did what she did. I'm not saying its a good reason. But there has to be a reason. If it were me, I'd want to know what that reason was. But that's just me. movinon05, Wow. Our husbands could be brothers! We never celebrated holidays (pointless) or went out together either. I never thought I would ever cheat, but I did. Why did I cheat? Because my husband was completely unable or unwilling to meet any of my emotional needs. He never told me I was beautiful, he went out with his friends until 2 or 3am every night, drank most days, smoked pot all day, ignored the kids, didn't do any housework, and STILL had the nerve to call me a "lazy b*tch" whenever possible. He also beat me. Like, movinon05, I don't think cheating was the right thing to do, but it helped me realize that there was better to be had in the world. It helped me find the strength to leave.
movinon05 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 movinon05, Wow. Our husbands could be brothers! We never celebrated holidays (pointless) or went out together either. I never thought I would ever cheat, but I did. Why did I cheat? Because my husband was completely unable or unwilling to meet any of my emotional needs. He never told me I was beautiful, he went out with his friends until 2 or 3am every night, drank most days, smoked pot all day, ignored the kids, didn't do any housework, and STILL had the nerve to call me a "lazy b*tch" whenever possible. He also beat me. Like, movinon05, I don't think cheating was the right thing to do, but it helped me realize that there was better to be had in the world. It helped me find the strength to leave. Well it took me a long time to realize why I did cheat, because everyone could see how unhappy I was. I just didn't think anyone noticed and I swept it under the rug. But I also didn't like who I became during the A, and learned even more about myself and I like myself better now that that is over too. Most importantly, I've learned that I will never allow a man to dictate my life and in doing so, ignore my instincts and what I know would really make me happy. Now that I'm dating, I'm learning something new each time, still struggling, but when I find I'm heading down that same path of being a "pleaser", and ignoring my own needs, I finally have the strength to end it. I'm no longer letting my heart rule my head. Someday, the two will come together with the right person who "gets" me for me. This is a good place to be in for my own emotional health. Its where I hope all OW/OM and BS get to, but they have to go through the same process I did.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 You are totally right about this. Meeting another person's needs is about doing so in the way that THEY need them met, not by the way YOU think they should be met.... Ok...fair enough...so that means I have to worry about not doing everything absolutely perfect...cuz if I don't...she'll stray again? Hell...lets turn this around....she never gives oral sex...she expects me to give it and I do because I like to, but she doesn't. There is a "need" of mine not being met. I guess that means I should go get it from another woman then?...but I won't...because I am not that selfish. And thats what it all gets back to...cheaters are selfish. The notion that if things are exactly perfect and one teeny weeny "need" isn't being met that it is a justification for cheating...well....thats just plain f#cked up
Jinxx Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 she never gives oral sex... You're missing out big time on an important need that is not being met. You don't know it yet because you are harboring much hurt, bitterness and anger. But there is some nice woman out there that would gladly meet this need for you, someone you could learn to trust again.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 People say that its up to the offended spouse to define what is an affair, not the spouse having the affair. At the same time its up to the spouse to determine if you are meeting their needs. You can not sit back and say you have done everything right. thats up to her. Im not saying that its an excuse to have an affair, but you really need to stop assuming you were doing everything right. She wasn't perfect...but did I feel the need to go f#ck around on her?......no.
sadbuttrue Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 sc, you are still so spiteful. dont you get tired of having so much hate inside?
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 sc, you are still so spiteful. dont you get tired of having so much hate inside? Its been only six months...what do you expect?
sadbuttrue Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 sc, i guess i would just hope that you would start feeling a little better. it is normal to be angry, but you just seem to have an unusual amount of hate bottled up, letting little bits spew forth here and there.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 sc, i guess i would just hope that you would start feeling a little better. it is normal to be angry, but you just seem to have an unusual amount of hate bottled up, letting little bits spew forth here and there. Dont see how it is possible at this point and time...not a day goes by that I don't think about it and the visions in my head of what she did with this other guy will never go away. If I wasn't the person I am, I would give her something to fill her thoughts with like she has done me. Its like she sentenced me to an emotional life sentence.
Trialbyfire Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Dont see how it is possible at this point and time...not a day goes by that I don't think about it and the visions in my head of what she did with this other guy will never go away. If I wasn't the person I am, I would give her something to fill her thoughts with like she has done me. Its like she sentenced me to an emotional life sentence. Yes, her selfish actions have hurt you worse than anything you've ever experienced before but no, she hasn't sentenced you. The door's open right now for you to take that first step and get out of the hell-hole you're in. Why let someone else have so much power over you as a person? She's still working you, albeit unknowingly.
sadbuttrue Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 sc, i dont see how you can be any good to your kids in the state of mind that you are in. they have to see the strife between you and your wife. you should get help or get out, if not for you, then the kids.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 I probably will end up taking some advice here and divorce my wife...only time will tell. She has alot to prove...if she fails..then so be it. The burden of greater effort in repairing what she has done lies with her.....we'll see if she makes good. I'd say another year and I will know...maybe not even that long. But if she doesn't make good, I will file and I will fight for custody of my kids.
lover's rock Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I probably will end up taking some advice here and divorce my wife...only time will tell. She has alot to prove...if she fails..then so be it. The burden of greater effort in repairing what she has done lies with her.....we'll see if she makes good. I'd say another year and I will know...maybe not even that long. But if she doesn't make good, I will file and I will fight for custody of my kids. He is hurting. Men take longer to get over hurt than women do. It's been two years since what I call my minor "slip up" and my H still has days when he feels like spitting in my face. But those days are once in a blue moon now when they used to be constant. He's angry but he's hurting like a wounded lion. It'll take time for that kind of pain to heal and his wife will have to hear it in the meanwhile. That's the price to pay. But if she takes it all in stride and with understanding that her actions hurt him immensely more than anyone on earth has ever hurt him...she'll be rewarded with his forgiveness.
movinon05 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I probably will end up taking some advice here and divorce my wife...only time will tell. She has alot to prove...if she fails..then so be it. The burden of greater effort in repairing what she has done lies with her.....we'll see if she makes good. I'd say another year and I will know...maybe not even that long. But if she doesn't make good, I will file and I will fight for custody of my kids. Well should the time come, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep the children out of it. I have no doubt you will go for custody but children, ESPECIALLY the ages of yours, will not comprehend or understand if you were to keep them from her. They love their mother, no matter what she did to you. And I assure you, if you were to belittle their mother or whatever, it will come back to bite you in the a$$ and do more harm than good. AND, should the time come, I do hope you seek some help for yourself independently so you don't carry this bitterness into any future relationships because that will backfire on you as well. And you haven't answered my question. Is she a good mother?
movinon05 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 He is hurting. Men take longer to get over hurt than women do. It's been two years since what I call my minor "slip up" and my H still has days when he feels like spitting in my face. But those days are once in a blue moon now when they used to be constant. He's angry but he's hurting like a wounded lion. It'll take time for that kind of pain to heal and his wife will have to hear it in the meanwhile. That's the price to pay. But if she takes it all in stride and with understanding that her actions hurt him immensely more than anyone on earth has ever hurt him...she'll be rewarded with his forgiveness. Actually, if you think about it... what about Hard2Think's story in Infidelity. Everyone was telling him he had to be patient and wait practically forever! Why is this any different? I don't agree necessarily about how SC is going about this "recovery", but these situations are a bit unbalanced.
lover's rock Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Actually, if you think about it... what about Hard2Think's story in Infidelity. Everyone was telling him he had to be patient and wait practically forever! Why is this any different? I don't agree necessarily about how SC is going about this "recovery", but these situations are a bit unbalanced. Well as far as H2T, I think that he should be a bit more tolerant with his wife's varying degrees of committment. Our counselor told us that for a while it would feel like one step forward two steps back. That can get pretty depressing. But it's the process of digging yourselves out of a ditch. There are moments when you wonder what you are working for. It's reality. As long as neither of them leaves or files, there is always hope. Every infidelity situation takes patience because the kind of hurt is caused that only time can heal. You may pack your bags a million times. As long as no one walks out the door, as long as no one wants a divorce, and as long as those clothes are eventually put back in that drawer...as long as you are still truckin'...you'll be alright. SC is very hurt and it is coming out as extreme anger. As far as I understand he isn't hitting his wife or allowing his anger to destroy anyone else but himself. Yes his kids see it but if he and his wife get through this, his kids will see the rewards for many years to come that will outshine this blip on the radar. The only thing I would suggest for him is to take up some sort of physical activity like racquetball or weightlifting to help him express his anger constructively.
pricillia Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Dammit movinon...I like you...but I said barring the "you do yourself no good" stuff. Exactly..and as I have said here before, getting into that situation is one thing..it is also one thing knowing it is wrong and are here looking for advice on how to move on and get out. As I've said before..I can at least respect that mindset. But there are OW/OM here that come here looking for support and advice on how to keep the affair going...not interested in doing what is right. No, I talk to my wife...she knows everything. I've told her that I am still angry over everything...I just blow that anger off doing other things rather than bringing it home. And what is MC going to do for us? People keep talking about learning WHY she strayed....I dont' care WHY...all that matter is she DID. I can see if I neglected her badly, treated her like crap, or abused her...but our relationship was in NO WAY like that. We did everything together, she was my best friend, and sex was fantastic and never a lack of it. Yet she strayed...didn't have the "tits" to fess up and tell me about it...and went into our marriage a total lie. I had no choice in the matter. So really, what is a shrink going to say to us to make it better? SC, You have to find out the "WHY" because it is vital to the relationship that you have with your wife. You may uncover a pain that needs to be addressed, until then things may not improve. If you like the status quo then hey just stick to the facts and the fact is she cheated... But it is like someone being sick and the doctor can not figure out why..he knows that that person has a illness but why what is causing the illness, then when the doctor knows then he knows how and when to treat the pain, Knowing that the person is sick is not enough to determine the cure. If you two work on this together then it may get better, but you have to take care of the issue, just because you know there is one does not solve the problem
Trialbyfire Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 SC, one of the worst parts of being cheated on is the debilitating feeling of helplessness, the one where you didn't see it coming and had no say or control in it. It's a horrible feeling to be made a victim. Many people lash out when this happens to attempt to take back what was forcibly ripped from you. I know I did. The only problem is that being a victim never accomplishes anything for you as a person. Better to take a survivor's stance and attempt to gain control of your life and your emotions. For your own mental health, try not to take control over her life because she's an adult and should bear up to her own responsibilities and also will probably lash back at the restrictions. It doesn't hurt to give her guidelines of your reasonable expectations though and let her meet them on her own accord. If she really wants to make reparations, she will either meet or exceed those expectations. If she fails, it's time to move on because more than likely her priorities are different.
michelangelo Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Is useful, and "why" isn't necessarily the drivel your cheating wife spews at you for a long time. The complete story can take years to be revealed. And I'm not talking about salacious details either. BTW, at six months SC's anger is entirely appropriate for a guy--women too. The venting here at this board can be at an expressed anger level that is not even dealt with the same intensity person to person. I applaud getting it out here. Women live their lives with the expectation that sooner or later their man will be a dog to them and cheat. They have this mistrust pounded into them my the media and their girlfriends. Men do not expect their women to cheat on them. Only after the shock of the betrayal occurs to we realize that women have the same potential for cheating as men do. We are wholly unprepared for it. Plus, we do not go around sharing in the experience with every friend we have. Women talk to everyone they know. OK, I'm rambling. SC--I recommend marriage counseling for two reasons. 1. You may be wrong about your opinion about it and actually get some peace out of it. And if you are right, you've only invested a little time on your marriage. Be it to repair it to end it, is that worth it? Yes. 2. It shows your children that you tried.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 Well should the time come, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep the children out of it. I have no doubt you will go for custody but children, ESPECIALLY the ages of yours, will not comprehend or understand if you were to keep them from her. They love their mother, no matter what she did to you. And I assure you, if you were to belittle their mother or whatever, it will come back to bite you in the a$$ and do more harm than good. Thats one thing I highly believe in..no matter the differences between parents...nobody should try to turn their children against the other parent. I wouldn't dream of doing that...but if the kids were to ask in the future when they are old enough to understand, I sure as hell won't lie to them. AND, should the time come, I do hope you seek some help for yourself independently so you don't carry this bitterness into any future relationships because that will backfire on you as well. If I divorce, there will be NO future relationships...that is sh!it I DO NOT need. And you haven't answered my question. Is she a good mother? Yes, she is a good mother...I won't take that away from her...but I would go for custody as I am a good father, my kids are the most important thing to me...and I shouldn't have to be without them on a day-to-day basis because of what she did and the things she has done while we were married.
Author Salicious Crumb Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 SC, You have to find out the "WHY" because it is vital to the relationship that you have with your wife. You may uncover a pain that needs to be addressed Like what?
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