words and agendas

[Guest]

Hi, I have been going through a very difficult time with mm recently and it is sort of leading up to a d day but we are backing away from that now.

We have had numerous splits during the affair and it really is like we cannot give each other up.

 

The first split was initiated by me, although he agreed that continuing wasn't being fair on me and I did say good-bye to him. I then took myself off on an unpaid holiday for 4 months to the States. Well 7 months later I get a call out of the blue from him but it sounded like he just wanted to resume the affair so I gave him a hard time, and said that I had changed, and that I was extremely busy at work. I found out that 2 weeks later he had visited my work place for a 2 day conference but he hadn't made any attempt to contact me.

 

The conference was voluntary with other venues being offered but he still chose my workplace. He knew someone would tell me that he was there beacue he used to work for my firm years ago and indeed someone did say "Oh xxx was here last week. He was on that conference."

So why would he do that? Just to punish me for giving him a hard time on the phone.

 

Like an idiot, I did resume about 2 months later (my choice) and that was a BIG mistake because, in his mind, I was accepting the status quo. After about 3 more splits and then resuming, I got weary and decided things had to change. Anything was better than all this turmoil, broken dates and him getting very nervous lately and not really talking to me, as if something was on his mind.

 

Well I thought, enough was enough, and I chalked him off on the phone.

He stopped calling me and then our paths crossed when he was in the bank.

 

He waited for me and looked pleased to see me and then he said "Do you want me to call you or not?".

 

Now why would he ask me that--what is going on in his mind?

I rather weakly nodded and he said well it wouldn't be the next day because he had to go into town, so I assumed it would be the day after. But I have heard nothing. When he said to me that he wouldn't call me the next day do you think he was expecting me to say "well call the following day then". I didn't because I didn't want too appear too needy, but he might have thought that I didn't really care. Or is he just messing with my head and why?

[Izzar]

Guest,

He is the needy one here. He needs sexual attention. So I guess when he calls you, it'll be to ask what time you are available.

Hopefully your answer will be "Never"!

[frannie]

He stopped calling me and then our paths crossed when he was in the bank.

 

He waited for me and looked pleased to see me and then he said "Do you want me to call you or not?".

 

Now why would he ask me that--what is going on in his mind?

I rather weakly nodded and he said well it wouldn't be the next day because he had to go into town, so I assumed it would be the day after. But I have heard nothing. When he said to me that he wouldn't call me the next day do you think he was expecting me to say "well call the following day then". I didn't because I didn't want too appear too needy, but he might have thought that I didn't really care. Or is he just messing with my head and why?

 

Basically, he's saying "do you want to be available for me whenever and wherever, or not?"

 

That's all. He couldn't have been any clearer, I don't think. But it's easier to see from the outside, because of course you've also been hearing all his other wooing talk and so on which clouds up the issue and makes a hopeful person look for much more meaning in words than there is.

 

He wants sex when it's convenient for him and his life is a little dull, and for you to have no expectations of him in return.

 

So... do you want to be available for him..?

[Seen_It_All]

Now why would he ask me that--what is going on in his mind?

 

LOL - the same thing that's on most of their feeble minds - getting laid without wifey finding out.

 

This is not rocket science.

[Guest]

LOL - the same thing that's on most of their feeble minds - getting laid without wifey finding out.

 

This is not rocket science.

 

 

If the affair is over, why not just come out and say it? He had an affair several years before me --she was married and he said that he got fed up with her whining on about her husband so he finished the affair. So he is capable of saying NO if he wants to.

 

He still hasn't phoned, so if that is what he wants and I have given him the green light, where is he? Could be that wifey is still watching him like a hawk.

 

Anyway I am fed up with being his play thing so I just need to say that actually I have been thinking and I can't do this anymore. Then that will be that and he will have to find someone else to have no strings sex with.

I know that when he asked about phoning I could have and should have said "NO, I don't want you to contact me anymore". That would have sent a loud message and got the control back.

[frannie]

If the affair is over, why not just come out and say it? He had an affair several years before me --she was married and he said that he got fed up with her whining on about her husband so he finished the affair. So he is capable of saying NO if he wants to.

 

He still hasn't phoned, so if that is what he wants and I have given him the green light, where is he? Could be that wifey is still watching him like a hawk.

 

Well yes, he's probably capable of saying 'no'... but it's you who keeps saying no, so he was asking whether you were on for it or not. Just clarifying where he stood, I suppose.

 

Why hasn't he phoned..? Because he wanted a green light to know that you were available, and now he knows you are, he's ok. He doesn't necessarily want you right at this moment, and may not. It's about whether or not you're available..?

 

I would take a guess that he's not really into rejection (which of us are..?) and feels a whole lot happier when it's you expecting a call. All that breaking it off and saying you have moved on and so on is very disturbing to someone who doesn't like the word 'no'. The way he put the question to you in the store also suggests the same thing: he didn't offer anything, just asked what you wanted him to do.

 

I'd also say that his earlier affair may not have ended quite in the way he's told you. I've never heard of a MM breaking anything off because his OW was too anything... but maybe I've missed something. MM generally (eek I'm generalising) don't do anything quite so rash as end their source of external pleasure/relief... much more likely to keep them hanging on wondering...

[Guest]

Well yes, he's probably capable of saying 'no'... but it's you who keeps saying no, so he was asking whether you were on for it or not. Just clarifying where he stood, I suppose.

 

Why hasn't he phoned..? Because he wanted a green light to know that you were available, and now he knows you are, he's ok. He doesn't necessarily want you right at this moment, and may not. It's about whether or not you're available..?

 

I would take a guess that he's not really into rejection (which of us are..?) and feels a whole lot happier when it's you expecting a call. All that breaking it off and saying you have moved on and so on is very disturbing to someone who doesn't like the word 'no'. The way he put the question to you in the store also suggests the same thing: he didn't offer anything, just asked what you wanted him to do.

 

I'd also say that his earlier affair may not have ended quite in the way he's told you. I've never heard of a MM breaking anything off because his OW was too anything... but maybe I've missed something. MM generally (eek I'm generalising) don't do anything quite so rash as end their source of external pleasure/relief... much more likely to keep them hanging on wondering...

 

 

 

 

 

Frannie,

 

Thanks for that insight.

When you say that I keep saying "No", what do you mean?

 

Anyway I have an update. Yesterday evening we ran into each other in the supermarket and he said that he knows he said he would call, and then he looked at me.

I said "well why say it if you don't mean it. What's the point. It is so unnecessary?"

His attitude changed and he became gentler and said " I will call you next Tuesday or Wednesday". With that we said a polite good-bye.

 

Then today I saw him, but this time he said he was in a hurry to get to the barbers. I parked the car and he didn't wait and I humiliated myself ever so slightly by running up the street. Eventually I caught up with him and he was rushing and he said "I couldn't wait I am late for the barbers". I thougt he was running from me.

 

I sort of tried asking what he was doing after the barber's and he said "I told you I will call you next week OK" That made me back right off and I went into the nearest shop. I could kick myself but it doesn't end there!

 

I became suspicious so I waited for him to come out of the barber's-he never saw me. He checked his mobile phone. Then he went straight into Waitrose and I panicked. I thought he was going to buy a bottle of wine and a sandwich and meet another woman and that he had texted her from his mobile. Well he reappeared with a fair bit of shopping about 20 minutes later and then went to Sainsburys and did more shopping including buying some flowers--obviously not for me!

 

Then he got on a bus and went home so I panicked for nothing. But I am in a terrible state because I feel I made a fool of myself and have given the power back to him. Also now he knows I am so keen he might not call.

 

Then I looked at my behaviour and I didn't like it one litttle bit. Should I just leave him alone because I can change my habits without too much discomfort and then I wouldn't keep bumping into him?

I really need you to help me through this.

[puddleofmud]

Should you "leave him alone or change your habits"?

What do YOU want to do?

It is most convincing that he has little to say to you, doesn't do what he tells you he might, and that the phone calls and flowers were not for YOU--could be for his grandmummy--who knows (?), but that is most doubtful.

Do you wish to continue "humiliating" yourself in order to "figure out" his motivation?

If he wants you he will show up. If he really wanted you he will show up NOW, tonight, this day, this hour, this minute with flowers in hand.

I fear (and am most sorry) that this is not a matter of "leaving him alone" but rather more a matter of "changing your habits".

He has left you quite alone, and perhaps you may wish to change your habitual thinking about his motives and his place in your life.

Yes, DO change your habits, you own that street and buy yourself a very large, colorful. flashy bouquet of flowers, smile like the sun and wave to him as you sash and sway saying "Bye, bye, halluleuah, NO MO; MO FO!".

[GreenEyedLady]

You have really low expectations for him and they suit him just fine...You need to decide what YOU want and need in a R and then go out and find it...He sounds like a real piece of work...

[Guest]

Should you "leave him alone or change your habits"?

What do YOU want to do?

It is most convincing that he has little to say to you, doesn't do what he tells you he might, and that the phone calls and flowers were not for YOU--could be for his grandmummy--who knows (?), but that is most doubtful.

Do you wish to continue "humiliating" yourself in order to "figure out" his motivation?

If he wants you he will show up. If he really wanted you he will show up NOW, tonight, this day, this hour, this minute with flowers in hand.

I fear (and am most sorry) that this is not a matter of "leaving him alone" but rather more a matter of "changing your habits".

He has left you quite alone, and perhaps you may wish to change your habitual thinking about his motives and his place in your life.

Yes, DO change your habits, you own that street and buy yourself a very large, colorful. flashy bouquet of flowers, smile like the sun and wave to him as you sash and sway saying "Bye, bye, halluleuah, NO MO; MO FO!".

 

 

The flowers were for his wife, the home, etc.

Lat night I thought to myself OK so he's not got another woman on the go but he has still got a WIFE. Also how much do I tust him? Not alot.

 

After the little episode yesterday, although it hurt, it has made me decide that I will change my habits. I will not frequent the places that he does or he will think I am chasing after him.

I will stay well away so he doesn't get the chance to humiliate me again. That way he will also know that I have got the message and I will send him a message that I accept it is over and am getting on with my life.

[frannie]

Frannie,

 

Thanks for that insight.

When you say that I keep saying "No", what do you mean?

 

What I mean is your 'the first split was me' and 'i knew he wanted only an affair so I said no' and 'i turned him down'... that is NO. And I am NOT saying you were at all wrong in those things... you were right!

 

What it looks like is that he bumps into you now and then and he's asking you whether or not you're available... and then tells you that he will call you then... right..? And you're running up a street after him, and he's telling you when he will call.

 

I don't know... I thought I'd said it all in my earlier post about him wanting things his way and when he wanted them... do you think there is more to this... does he really care about you..? It's really hard, sometimes, to just read a message board and know what is happening. I know no one here can possibly know how MM and I are together... have you shared so much and now it feels over..? Is he struggling with his heart and you have shared so much..? OR is what you're writing more or less it..?

 

If it's more or less it... that it's a man running up a street, then coming out later with flowers... then you really should walk away.

[frannie]

Possibly a brainwave and not very useful, but it just came to me.

 

You know what I think about this site... OW/OM are sharing minimal information about what it is like to be in the affair... so it's very hard to know what are the facts, what it is like to be in an A relationship...

 

... it's bare minimum... assumptions.. and always the knowledge that we're being listened to and about to be criticised. And of course the accusation that the men and women we're involved with are lying to us.

 

Of course these are the same men and women who are on infidelity and separation/divorce... but apparently people only ever lie to the people they have affairs with... not to the people they're married to... ah yes, right. The fact they're cheating on those SOs is irrelevant..?

 

Anyway, I'm just musing and wondering about talking realistically on this board about what affairs are like... how they feel to those involved in them... why not..? why do WE have to live with the 'he's a liar!' accusations... when if a person is involved in infidelity they're lying to their PARTNER first and foremost..?

 

Or am I just rambling..?

[Guest]

Yeah Frannie, it is difficult to give advice because the way we express ourselves in words is not as eloquent as if we did it in person.

 

I think you are right about my mm just wanting everything on his terms and that is why I feel so upset and numb that he just doesn't undertsand the turmoil I am in. He probably does a bit more after yesterday, but I will not be stopping if I see him again and I will avoid places that I know he frequents.

 

I called a friend last night and told him about my experience and he said that I shouldn't beat myself up over it-mm will be in no doubt that I am involved with him but it's not like I have been stalking the guy or phoning him at home.

 

My friend reminded me about all the manic phone calls that mm has made to me including one at 6.30am when he couldn't get hold of me the previous night. He was just checking that I hadn't slept over. God I haven't been or looked at anyone else since I've been with him.

 

I think I have made too much about the flowers.

The point is that he was doing the family shopping and he had several carrier bags--it's just that I saw him picking out flowers and I guess that seemed rather ironic. He had obviously told his wife he would do the weekly shop which is why he didn't want to meet me after his hair cut, plus he likes to call the shots, plus he may not want to meet me again anyway.

 

I had one affair before this one and the mm offered to leave his wife and kids but I was only 23 and he talked about having our own family together and I freaked out and finished it. That mm asked me for a meeting to discuss my decision and as I cared for him and his feelings I did meet with him. This is something that the current one has a problem with.

 

Anyway the more I read this thread over and over, I realise I am wasting my life on someone who gives me so little and promises me even less. I just know it will take me so long to get over it and that is a journey I am not looking forward to. I just cannot understand why I am finding it difficult to let go of something that is obviously so bad for me.

 

I hope your situation has a happier ending Frannie.

[overandout]

I would say this mm is sexually addicted to you--no more no less.

 

He will make you wait a while until he calls you, because the longer he keeps you waiting, the more compliant you will be when he eventually calls.You will be so relieved to see him that he will hope to take up with you where he left off. He will also pretend that there is more to the relationship than sex (what mm is going to tell you he is using you!), but your gut instinct is that there isn't. If you make it clear that you think he is using you, then guilt may set in and he could pull back from you.

 

It really is no skin off his nose to play these little games if ultimately he knows you will be available.

You really need to break the cycle here.