Hard2Think Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 Looks like my last thread was locked - I assume from the sheer volume LadyJane - The letter was great. I hand wrote it to 4 pages, put it in an envelope and put it on her keyboard with a single rose. She read it when she got back home while my son and I were on a bike ride. When I got home .. she wanted to talk. The first thing she said (as I suspected) was "This letter reminds me of the emails you sent (OW)". I figured that was a risk and we'd have to get that out of the way. She said she didn't know if she could believe me since I wrote nice things to OW and now claim they were lies. But after some talk, we got past that. But the real value of the letter is that is solidified certain positions I had. The beauty of it is that the letter did a great job, a better one than I, at touching on the issues that made me think an A was ok, but without laying blame on my wife directly. I think that the letter made her realize that I really didn't think she cared about me that much at all and that I was surprised at her reaction. I had told her this before - but when I read it myself in the letter, I saw that I had not put that fact in it's proper context nor had I discussed it enough. Anyway - my wife is back to looking like she wants to reconcile again. She did admit that it's going to be very hard. She also admitted that she was considering the idea of finding someone else she could sleep with (she had already hinted at that before)- but that she couldn't bring herself to do it while we were still together. In any case, we were able to be affectionate again as of yesterday, even if e were not sexual yet. I can tell that there is still some ice to break because of the long time we've spent not really touching each other .. So LadyJane - thanks again. This letter and the idea to send her one was a great one. I feel like such a plagiarist - but the letter was perfect. I hardly changed a thing.
Ladyjane14 Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 Your welcome, kiddo. And don't worry about the "plagerism" issue. The letter was extrapolated after reading through the 900+ pages of your thread afterall. So, it's all about you. I think there's a bit of common ground though with incidental cheaters. You know a serial cheater cheats because he can. He feels entitled to putting himself first in all things. His own happiness is paramount, and if other people get hurt in the process, it's unfortunate... but he's not willing to forego his own pleasures in order to prevent it. People have ridden you hard at times, making sure that you weren't that kind of guy. I've rattled your cage a couple of times myself. But I'm fairly confident at this point that you aren't one of the serial types. The incidental cheater is a guy who's responding to hopelessness regarding the relationship. He's given up on working things out because he feels there's no point in it. He's lost belief in his spouse's love for him. He can no longer visualize a future in which love and intimacy can be returned to the marriage. He's depressed and looking for a way to lift himself out of an emotional void. This makes it soooo very easy for him to rationalize his behavior. If he's not important to his spouse... than what difference does it make if he stays the course with her? I've seen it in my own marriage. My husband is a GREAT guy. There's no way he would put his own selfish pleasure before me or the good of his family. And yet, to his way of thinking.... it all made sense at the time. Understanding how twisted up his thinking had become was KEY to my ability to forgive him. He felt like he had lost me, and he was bereft... and angry about it too. And when it was all said and done, and I had given him again the closeness and intimacy that he needed.... he, himself, could no longer identify with his former mindset. His words and actions from just a few months prior made NO SENSE to him anymore. It was like some other guy had hijacked his BRAIN. Things are going to keep going up and down for as long as your wife is feeling the pain of your betrayal. So, keep your seatbelts fastened. You know, when she says to you... "she was considering the idea of finding someone else she could sleep with "... almost ALL betrayed spouses feel like that as we're going through the healing process. And while the majority of us doesn't act on it, the feeling is damn near universal. We WANT our spouse to understand our pain, because weirdly enough.... he's the only one who can really comfort us and make it go away. Saying something like that isn't really a matter of taking a jab at you. It's a way of sharing her hurt feelings, so you know where her head is at. Once she gets serious about recovery, she's going to need to talk... and talk... and talk. And there are going to be times when you're CONVINCED that it's never going to end and you'll live the rest of your days in her personal doghouse. But that's not what it's about. It's not a punishment. It's her wanting you to understand what she's feeling. And understanding each other's feelings leads you back to emotional intimacy. So... even when it's hard to hear and when it comes out angry, it's still leading you down the path where you most want to go, right? On another subject, I think it would be a good plan for you to change your user name and open up a new thread. You need to be an 'open book' for your wife at this point. I'm not sure it would be a good thing for your wife to ever read your initial thread. There's ALOT of venting and confusion there, and while it's valid in it's way... it's an honesty that I think could be described as 'brutal'. p.s. There's a Wayward board at survivinginfidelity.com that might be of use to you at this time. I think you'll find other folks who are dealing with some of the same issues you're dealing with as they transition back into the marriage while dealing with the pain and fallout. It's not easy to fix the initial marital problems when you have theis HUGE mountain of a problem to deal with first. I think you might find some solace there in the knowledge that you are NOT alone in what you're feeling.
Mz. Pixie Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 This is a good turn to the thread. I seriously find it hard to believe that she would actually go through a divorce H. I think she's just blowing smoke. She knows she can't financially support herself in the style to which she has become accustomed to. I can't wait to see what else happens.
Author Hard2Think Posted September 25, 2006 Author Posted September 25, 2006 Maybe - but I hope that she doesn't decide to stay for that reason. In any case, I would know if she did because she'd have a hard time showing me any love. She might try to pretend for awhile, but she wouldn't be able to keep it up for long .. This is a good turn to the thread. I seriously find it hard to believe that she would actually go through a divorce H. I think she's just blowing smoke. She knows she can't financially support herself in the style to which she has become accustomed to. I can't wait to see what else happens.
whichwayisup Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 New thread, more positive energy only focussed on your wife - The one woman which is the most important. Just a suggestion, but why not ask her to write you a letter? I'm glad she was open enough to read your letter and see things that she didn't see before. Hoping it's an eye opener and a new beginning with more effort put in, more communication and hopefully MC will continue too.
Author Hard2Think Posted September 25, 2006 Author Posted September 25, 2006 That's what I'm hoping! She seems to still be resistant to MC - mostly because she thinks it's not "doing any good". Of course, we've only had 2 joint sessions and 1 individual session each .. As to her writing me a letter .. I'd like nothing more. But I think I need it to be on her own initative. Something she wants to do. I'd love it if she nixed the last birthday card and wrote me another. New thread, more positive energy only focussed on your wife - The one woman which is the most important. Just a suggestion, but why not ask her to write you a letter? I'm glad she was open enough to read your letter and see things that she didn't see before. Hoping it's an eye opener and a new beginning with more effort put in, more communication and hopefully MC will continue too.
Ladyjane14 Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 That's what I'm hoping! She seems to still be resistant to MC - mostly because she thinks it's not "doing any good". Of course, we've only had 2 joint sessions and 1 individual session each .. Even on days when she doesn't go with you... you should go anyway. She needs to see you as committed to getting the work done. If she's sees perseverance in your efforts, there's a greater likelihood that she'll get on board.
Author Hard2Think Posted September 25, 2006 Author Posted September 25, 2006 I'm leaning towards that - I just wanted to avoid her getting the feeling he's now "my" MC since I will have seen him so many times without her .. Even on days when she doesn't go with you... you should go anyway. She needs to see you as committed to getting the work done. If she's sees perseverance in your efforts, there's a greater likelihood that she'll get on board.
Mz. Pixie Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 I'm leaning towards that - I just wanted to avoid her getting the feeling he's now "my" MC since I will have seen him so many times without her .. It's still a good idea though, H2T. I can tell you from personal experience. My husband went to MC alone when his exwife told him they were finished. She went to one session, said she didn't love him anymore, and then quit going. He went alone. I can tell you that was absolutely the best thing he could have done. He found out what his issues were that contributed to the death of the marriage- and got confirmation of what he had been doing right. As a result, years later, I got the benefit. Think about it benefitting yourself as well as the marriage- should she choose to work on it. I know you wouldn't want her to stay just because she can't support herself- I'm just throwing that out there because I believe right now, she's trying to punish you by constantly saying that.
will2power Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 my sMM and his stbxw went for MC years ago (7 years ago, if I'm not mistaken) and the MC was totally on his W side and never brought to her my sMM's perspective. I think one of the things the MC said to sMM is that if something isn't how you like it (cleanliness of the house, how things are organized around the house) you go do it yourself. Is that really good advice or did the MC fail to recognize a need that my sMM has that his stbxw didn't provide to him? I guess my point is, while you like your MC, maybe your W feels alienated by him/her. Maybe she feels your MC is too much on your side and is not validating her feelings. Maybe it may be good for you to continue with your MC as you IC and you and your W both go MC shopping for the MC that suits you both if working on the M is the route you want to go. Kudos for not giving up. I still think you still need to focus on your needs and whether your W is willing to meet them. My sMM has his own psychologist and I love it that he has her. I don't know how we would have survived the last 3 months without his IC as she's been great with him. He's been seeing her for almost a year and I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon. As for me, I've just had my psychological assessment by 3 psychiatrists and it was really revealing. I'm not considered high need but they are looking at various therapy treatments that suited to my needs and will be recommending soon. My point for bringing this up is that its good to have someone you trust that you can talk to about these things. Good luck.
NoIDidn't Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 You know, when she says to you... "she was considering the idea of finding someone else she could sleep with "... almost ALL betrayed spouses feel like that as we're going through the healing process. And while the majority of us doesn't act on it, the feeling is damn near universal. We WANT our spouse to understand our pain, because weirdly enough.... he's the only one who can really comfort us and make it go away. Saying something like that isn't really a matter of taking a jab at you. It's a way of sharing her hurt feelings, so you know where her head is at. Once she gets serious about recovery, she's going to need to talk... and talk... and talk. And there are going to be times when you're CONVINCED that it's never going to end and you'll live the rest of your days in her personal doghouse. My H suggested that I do it back to him, but I didn't see the point. I did want to find someone else though. Not b/c I wanted to end the M, but b/c the pain was so great. I just wanted someone to make ME feel good. He understood my pain. He just didn't understand that I had been as unhappy as he was. And quite frankly, I was a little jealous that he had had a bright spot and I hadn't.
Author Hard2Think Posted September 25, 2006 Author Posted September 25, 2006 The thing is - she likes him, too. Last time we were there - she was enthused about the next appointment and later mentioned how much she likes this guy. I think that she has the expectation that he would solve everything in a session or two. I did ask her if she wanted us to see someone else and she was completely against the idea. I don't think it's him - it's MC in general that she's skeptical about. But I'll ask her one more time if she wants to go - and if it's no, then I'll go on my own.. my sMM and his stbxw went for MC years ago (7 years ago, if I'm not mistaken) and the MC was totally on his W side and never brought to her my sMM's perspective. I think one of the things the MC said to sMM is that if something isn't how you like it (cleanliness of the house, how things are organized around the house) you go do it yourself. Is that really good advice or did the MC fail to recognize a need that my sMM has that his stbxw didn't provide to him? I guess my point is, while you like your MC, maybe your W feels alienated by him/her. Maybe she feels your MC is too much on your side and is not validating her feelings. Maybe it may be good for you to continue with your MC as you IC and you and your W both go MC shopping for the MC that suits you both if working on the M is the route you want to go. Kudos for not giving up. I still think you still need to focus on your needs and whether your W is willing to meet them. My sMM has his own psychologist and I love it that he has her. I don't know how we would have survived the last 3 months without his IC as she's been great with him. He's been seeing her for almost a year and I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon. As for me, I've just had my psychological assessment by 3 psychiatrists and it was really revealing. I'm not considered high need but they are looking at various therapy treatments that suited to my needs and will be recommending soon. My point for bringing this up is that its good to have someone you trust that you can talk to about these things. Good luck.
whichwayisup Posted September 25, 2006 Posted September 25, 2006 The thing is - she likes him, too. Last time we were there - she was enthused about the next appointment and later mentioned how much she likes this guy. I think that she has the expectation that he would solve everything in a session or two. I did ask her if she wanted us to see someone else and she was completely against the idea. I don't think it's him - it's MC in general that she's skeptical about. But I'll ask her one more time if she wants to go - and if it's no, then I'll go on my own.. I think when you do end up going alone she'll really notices the changes in you, maybe then she'll reconsider. Fear, not knowing what will happen, what she's up against (in the sense of dealing with issues head on, feeling pain again and herself doing some changing) is what's stopping her from going. It's HARD WORK to go to MC and open up, then go home and try your butt of to make a good go of it.
Author Hard2Think Posted September 27, 2006 Author Posted September 27, 2006 How does on deal with that weird awkwardness that seems to set in sometimes? She was very uptight and was her usual self last night. I chalked it up to the fact that she's taking this extra fitness certification exam today that she's been studying like crazy for. But already this morning, I could see that she was feeling guarded with me again. I called her to say hello at lunchtime, but again - she wasn't real talkative .. I suspect that she's feeling resentful again - but doesn't want to open that can of worms right now .. I'm just having trouble keeping my loving feelings alive - and maybe she is too.
will2power Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 Ask her why she does not want to continue MC with the same counsellor if she likes him. Don't assume what she expect... ask and talk to her. Love is a two way street. You left the first time for a reason and it would minimalize the issues in the marriage to attribute it to the OW. There were fundamental issues that took away from your love for her and vice versa. Identify them and work on them together. If she doesn't and you do, you'll harbour resentment. You need to feel that she's putting in effort too.
sapphire0903 Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 H2T I have kept up with all of your posts, and I really sympathize with your situation. As a divorcee, and recently broke up with my boyfriend, I have come to accept that people either grow together or grow apart. It is impossible to make someone feel or not feel something towards their spouses/partners/or even friends. From what I have read, you have been doing your best to remedy the situation, in which I commend you. I don't believe anyone could ask any more from you,...........your best. Best wishes, and good luck
Author Hard2Think Posted September 27, 2006 Author Posted September 27, 2006 Thank you for your kind words.. It may well be that I dealt the death blow to the marriage with the A. Time will tell. H2T I have kept up with all of your posts, and I really sympathize with your situation. As a divorcee, and recently broke up with my boyfriend, I have come to accept that people either grow together or grow apart. It is impossible to make someone feel or not feel something towards their spouses/partners/or even friends. From what I have read, you have been doing your best to remedy the situation, in which I commend you. I don't believe anyone could ask any more from you,...........your best. Best wishes, and good luck
Flyin in Clouds Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I hope your wife does find someone to have an affair with. She certainly deserves to have her fun... you swine. I haven't followed your previous post, can't even find it, nor do I have time for 900 pages of sob story. You cheated. You are a liar and always will be. If you rob a bank, even if it is only one bank, and you're really, really sorry you did it, you will still be a bank robber the rest of your life. That is something you have to live with. No matter what you do your life won't be long enough to make it up to your wife for what you did to her. I really don't care what your excuses were. Your word, your vow, your promise isn't worth anything ... They weren't worth anything when you got married. So why would that change now? Because you cheated, got caught and you're sorry? I might suggest womansavers dot com for your wife. The reason I hope she does find a lover is because right now there is a moral and sexual imbalance in your marriage. You are sexually superior to her. You had a lover. Maybe she's so ugly no guy would want her. She needs to find out that is not so. She is morally superior to you. You cheated. She kept her word, her vow. She is not a cheater. You are. She can always hold that over you, and she will. If she has a lover then you're both on the same level again. Your wife certainly deserves a better man than you.
Guest Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I think this thread was locked because it is getting boring beyond belief. At this point why don't you go get professional help.
Love_of_my_Life Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Fly in Clouds, You sound awfully bitter. People make mistakes, and the reason I signed up was to offer support, and to get support myself. I think that is why alot of people sign up here for. Come back tomorrow, and I am going to post my story, still editing the long draft to put on here. I would like input from anyone.
whichwayisup Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Maybe you ought to take the time and read H2T's other thread before acting like a big jerk and judging him. I'm just sayin'!
Love_of_my_Life Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I have been trying to read them all, but the computer I am using keeps locking up. I am new on here, and If I am wrong then I will say I am wrong. I guess I have looked at the posts for a while now, and it seems that the people on here are very good at supporting each other. You are right though I have not looked at everything yet.
whichwayisup Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Ofcourse it was his choice to cheat on his wife, and there is no excuse for that, but their marriage before he cheated was on shakey ground, due to her treatment towards him. All I know now is, the guy knows he messed up and is doing ALL possible to make his marriage work again, gain the trust back from his wife. You coming in and beating up on him is serving no purpose really. It's not the type of support he needs right now, that's all. I hope your computer problems get fixed so you can read his other thread. It's a long thread, but worth reading because you'll get a feel of the full picture of his life and what led things to where he is now.
Chapter2 Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Wow whichway....I'm stunned...I had to do a double take. "the marriage was on shaky ground due to her treatment towards him".... I can't believe you typed that. You post on most threads but I've never heard you place blame on one partner for a shaky marriage. but their marriage before he cheated was on shakey ground, due to her treatment towards him.
whichwayisup Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Ofcourse it was his choice to cheat on his wife, and there is no excuse for that, Did you not read this part? Trust me, I did my share of being quite harsh with H2T on his original thread. I think you're putting your own spin on my words, because they're not meant to read the way you've read them. Read my whole reply again.
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