He is back what now?

[Arianna72]

So… I posted here back in December about a guy I had been seeing who had only recently split from his ex the post is rather long because the story is quite complicated really. That lovely full post is here for any who have the time to read it.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77374/

 

I will do my best to give a very incomplete brief synopsis here. J and I had been friends for a very long time before he and C even met. I had always thought he was pretty wonderful and apparently he felt the same way. A couple months after their break up he and I ended up with each other. We were spending most of our time together for about 3 ½ months. In that time he shared with me that he had very deep feelings for me and that he really felt like I was exactly what he wanted in a relationship and how in many ways that scared him, we also talked about how he was not ready to start a new relationship just yet but he didn’t really want either of us to sleep with other people and so we weren’t. I knew he still loved “C” but I hoped that he would be able to let it go and move on. The ex however was always trying to come back into the picture. She was stopping by his house and calling me and being generally psychotic. She told him she would go to counseling and stop drinking (she really does have some serious issues mentally, it isn't just the drinking) Basically she convinced him that she would fix everything. After some pretty questionable actions on his part (see above post if you are up for it) he and I talked about everything and I guess there was still a part of him that wasn’t done and felt like he needed to give it another chance. He wanted to remain friends with me and still had feelings for me. Initially I thought I could spend time with him as friends but after a lot of looking into myself and some great advice from people posting here I decided NC was best. I wrote him one email after Christmas basically letting him know that I really cared about him as a friend and while I did not want to abandon him it was far to difficult for me at the time and I felt that us not talking would be best for me. Due to other circumstances after Xmas I moved out of my old place and of course ended up with a new phone number so he had no way to contact me unless he asked a mutual friend about me.

 

So fast-forward to the end of July, I had pretty much gotten over the whole ordeal and stuck to the NC. I very rarely thought about him and could even see him passing by on the street and wave and carry on with my day. I went out one evening with a friend for drinks and we were sitting outside at the bar patio chatting when I see him walking up towards the door. I was initially not going to say anything but I thought, man this is silly we have been friends for so long and I am over it. I am going to say hello. He looked absolutely floored that I was speaking to him, he gave me a huge hug and came over and sat down with us. We had drinks together and over the course of the evening he talked to me about how his life was going. Apparently he and C broke up again in June but of course she is still staying at his place again (nearly the same story I swear). He now realized that she was never going to change and that when he thought long and hard about everything he realized he had no desire at all to spend the rest of his life with her (or even another day if he could get her out of the house but he is far to nice a guy to throw her out, or so he sees it). Against my better judgment when he asked if I would have dinner with him sometime I gave him my new phone number. He called me the next day and we went out for dinner, drinks and wonderful conversation. He repeatedly apologized for having hurt me before and told me he would have contacted me sooner except he figured I didn’t want to talk to him after my email. We agreed it was best to take things slowly this time around and he expressed how concerned he was about hurting me again like that. We probably drank a bit more than we should have and he ended up staying the night with me. While neither of us regret that it happened we have talked about how it was not part of the “the stated plan” to move more slowly this time. Since then we have gone sailing together several times and have been spending 2-4 evenings a week with each other and talking both on the phone and online together. While we have been very physically affectionate with each other we have not had sex again since that first night, though we have both been very tempted and he did sleep here one night just to cuddle up with me. He still tells me that I am everything he wants in a lover and a friend and that he really likes me a lot he is also still scared of his feelings for me somewhat (I know a lot of this is based on his childhood and a lot of trauma) He has been the one to stop things from going any further than some pretty wonderful "make-out" sessions as he maintains it is best for us to go slowly and he is so worried about how things ended before and doesn’t want to mess anything up. This is certainly one place I could use some advice as I have absolutely no idea how to proceed with the whole casual dating thing anyways much less with someone I already have a history with. I don’t know how often it is appropriate for me to call him or if I should just wait for him to call me. I don’t know what I should expect at all. I don’t know if I can or should ask him about dating other people? Or if he and I are even dating? What is it we are doing? I kind of want to ask these questions but I also agree that he and I just need to take things slowly and see what happens. At this point the last thing I want to do is put any undo pressure on him. How does one go about being casual when one doesn’t feel casually about someone? In some ways I don't really get it at all, I tried to explain to him the other night that the whole sex or no sex thing isn't even what it is really about for me but again I didn't know how to say that without it seeming like it was putting pressure on him so I just ended the conversation with a kiss and went on my way. To be honest I am already emotionally invested in this and I don't see how having or not having sex makes any difference at all. It is my feelings I am not sure how to slow down.

 

To complicate all of this even further, C is still living with him right now. She assured him back in July she would be gone by the end of Aug, but managed to lose her job (think it was rather intentional and I have suspicions she actually quit). He has always been the one to pay for pretty much everything. She packed up all of her things 2 weeks ago and it appeared she was actually going to go but apparently she just placed everything in the neighbor’s backyard instead and is still sleeping at his house. He bought new locks for his doors and windows but can’t seem to bring himself to actually put them on and tell her she has to leave. She knows that he and I are spending time together again and is not very happy about it. She is convinced that we are sleeping together and when he went to get his sailboat from Tahoe she was sure I went with him. She has tried getting my phone number from several people but no one is stupid enough to give it to her and J is very good about deleting it off his caller ID so no psycho phone calls yet. I went on vacation with my family last weekend and apparently while I was away she wrote him a 7-page letter (which he had me read) basically telling him that she still felt they could work. She begged him to go to counseling with her and promised again that she would stop drinking. He refused and told her that he wanted to be her friend but that he could not be with her in that way ever again. Thursday night she apparently completely flipped out and told him that she hated me, that she wasn’t mad at him and didn’t blame him for anything and that everything was my fault and if she ever sees me blah blah blah…. (this coming from a 39 year old woman). We were supposed to hang out tonight and he was going to call me after he and a friend watched the game at the Pub but he also expressed some concern that she might be there and possibly would try to follow him. I never heard from him tonight. We are also supposed to go sailing on his new boat Monday and I have already taken the time off to do so.

 

I just have no idea what I should be doing at this point. Sure I don’t need the drama in my life I understand that. I want to make it clear I am by no means dependent upon him or anyone else for my happiness I simply like the guy and would like to find out where things could go between us as we really do have a lot in common and have a wonderful time together. I know I could simply put the whole mess behind me (I did it before after all) but I am not sure I want to and frankly a piece of me feels like I gave up far to easily the last time anyways as there is definitely a connection between the two of us.

 

 

Please any comments would be helpful at this point. Is there even a chance that things can work between us? If so what should I do to make it more likely? Am I stuck with being a rebound? Where do I go from here?

[Guest]

Arianna,

 

Sorry you are having to deal with these issues. Unfortunately I went through the last 1.9 years in the same predicament as you. My ex gf never could remove herself from her ex bf, even though she spent all her time with myself and stated all those lovely things that your friend is now telling you. The only difference is that her ex bf did do some physically damaging things to myself and my property. I loved this girl with all my heart and unfortunately her heart never caught up to mine, no matter how I treated the situation.

 

If you have any hope for this guy, you will simply let him know how you feel about him and tell him to touch base when he has removed this other person from his life completely, both physically and emotionally. Take it with a grain assault that he says that she is the one who won't leave his life cause if he truly wanted that he would make it happen no matter what. I always thought of a saying as I was with her, "why buy the cow when the milk is free" and I would hate for you to get caught up in that. I am sure he does not want to hurt you, yet eventually he will. And since you admit you are emotionally invested already, you are risking a major heartbreak here, one that I am in and then some. Good luck.

[Arianna72]

I really do believe that he wants her to leave and that he is finished with her this time around.. of course I suppose I could be wrong.

 

She currently does not have anyone that is willing to let her live with them and no money for her own place. Last time he actually gave her money so she could rent a place but since he just bought a new boat he can't do that for her right now. That he is trying to be the "nice guy" by not throwing her out drives me crazy as I know he really isn't helping her at all by letting her stay there. Of course she isn't going to simply leave on her own, she has it all right now. He is paying the bills and she can sleep all day and not have to work at all and he hates being home so he spends most of his time elsewhere meaning she basically has the place to herself rent free.

 

Anyhow, I just don't see why he would be hanging out with me as much as he is if there wasn't real feelings there, maybe I would understand it better if we were having sex but given were not; there basically is no "free milk" here.

 

I keep going back and forth with the whole thing yet again.

 

I almost decide it is just not worth the drama and I should simply say "Hey, I like you a lot but I am not willing to deal with this again, let me know when you are in a better place" But I don't want to abandon him yet again.

 

Then I think I should stick around and be "just a friend" to him until he is ready for more. But I am not sure if I know how to do that or am actually capable of it especially given we have both already expressed deeper feelings than that.

 

There is also the side of me that says just keep things as they are being more than friends but less than actual lovers and see what happens... course if something doesn't change soon I think that might just drive me crazy.

[Guest]

Arianna,

 

I respect what you have written and wish you the best in your decision making. I only speak from my experience and I must say that it has left me gutted......and I don't want that to happen to you.

 

I began to find my ex gf becoming more and more complacent with the status quo when I was around supplying her with emotional and physical support. Your friend has no obligations to his ex and should not feel in any way responsible for her needs at this time. What you are telling me is that he still puts her needs ahead of yours and I am sorry to say that it will continue long into the future unless he deals with his baggage. Please don't kid yourself here.......if he wants to do something, he will....and he can talk the talk all he wants yet actions speak louder than words.

 

Did you ever think that they still may be physically involved? Did you ever think you may be a rebound? How would you feel about that? Are you going to date others or just wait for this guy?

[Arianna72]

Did you read my previous thread? Of course there is always a question of if he is being honest about things. I am fairly certain there is nothing going on between them physically but I suppose there is always that possiblity. As to the rebound question I believe I asked that myself in my first post

 

I suppose I could date other people and I think he would understand that. Problem is there is really no one else around that I could/want to date right now. So I suppose I am to an extent waiting to see what happens by default anyhow. The question is how should I conduct myself while doing so.

 

Right now he and I have placed no actual expectations on one another and I have not really asked him to meet any needs of mine so I can't really say he isn't meeting them I suppose. So while it may be said that he is placing her needs above his own I am not so sure the same can be said of my needs. Sure I have desires, but I have held back on asking for anything from him and have made it clear that right now I have no expecations of anything.

[Arianna72]

Well... we are supposed to go sailing today and I haven't heard from him yet. (planned for over 2 weeks and I took the day off to go, which he knows)

 

I know I should stop being silly and just call him as otherwise I will sit here wondering what is happening but I want him to actually call me. If I call him I will never know whether he would have called me eventually to at least let me know what is up.

 

....................................

 

Update...

Well I held out and he finally did call me at 12:00 I guess we are going sailing as planned... I will feel things out and maybe today is the time to talk to him.

[swirly27]

Here's whats a shame - you are emotionally invested and SAY you have no expectations....but you do, and I don't blame you. BUT, you are questioning what you should say to him, what you shouldn't say, how much pressure you do or don't put on him, how you gave up last time......SNAP OUT OF THAT.....WHAT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR FEELINGS. If he didn't want any pressure or to deal with seeing you or hanging out with you, he's a man, he makes his own choices....HE asked YOU out to dinner, he made the conscious choice to sleep with you the first night, he continues to still see you and call you and talk to you....you're putting your own priorities WAY BELOW where they should be. Taking things slow is great, seeing how things go is wonderful, but not at the expense that you are left confused and wondering....because if you are, you already know then something is wrong. I think even though you got over this before, you still have this great hope that things will work out, so you are overlooking what you already know to be red flags here.....because your hope is outweighing your logic.

 

I agree with Guest here, for your own sanity and saving yourself more hurt in the future, be this guy's friend, but I would remove myself from the situation until he has some of his stuff cleaned up, mainly with that ex of his. He can feel bad and be the nice guy, but his actions do speak louder than his words. Just imagine, if you were with this guy, wouldn't you want him to be a man of his word and follow thru on actions, not just SAY the words. You don't want to be caught up anymore in this drama. He can't follow thru on a plan today as you're sitting around waiting on him for this sailing trip, but he can let this crazy ex of his stay in his place and he keeps taking her back....WHY IS THAT!! You deserve way more. Keep telling yourself that so you know it. Doesn't mean this guy isn't a nice guy or maybe confused, but you need to put yourself and your longterm needs before his.

[Arianna72]

Thanks for your reply Swirly, I can definitely feel myself allowing hope to outweigh my logic. I know that he is making the choice to hang out with me and I know he enjoys and appreciates my company. Right now thinking about “my feelings” can be a bit of a jumbled mess. I want to be his friend and I love spending time with him as friends, I always have long before we ever even considered anything more. The problem for me is that I am also very attracted to him as more than friends and when we spend time together I find myself moving a bit closer, talking a bit more intimately etc. and each time I tell myself I am not going to do that but it just seems to come so naturally, I am very comfortable around him and he is the same way around me. Thus I am not entirely sure how to “remove myself from the situation” without pulling out of the picture entirely again. I know I need to exercise self-control and in general I am.

 

After sailing yesterday (yes he did finally call) we decided to meet up later for dinner. We each went home to shower, when he got home he found a lovely note she left him saying

 

“Hope you have fun sailing with (me), I am going to the lake to camp out tonight, I am

so

depressed I see no point in continuing to live and am not sure why I don’t just kill myself, anyhow have fun with your house tonight, I will always love you”

 

This is not the first time she has alluded to suicide it has actually become a regular thing with her whenever he doesn’t do what she wants him too and yes she has made gestures as well before (see the post I linked above). He used to run to her rescue whenever she wrote them and they are a big part of why he hasn’t actually thrown her out of his house yet I believe (he is worried she may try if he actually locks her out of the house). I have encouraged him to simply call the police and show them the note but he doesn’t want to go through that with her again and really believes she will simply leave on her own; however at this point I don’t think she is going anywhere unless he actually has someone remove her. Her latest plan is to apparently become a “teacher” in China?? This sounds to me like another scheme to stay at his place for as long as she can (even if this is her genuine plan I can’t imagine it is one that is going to happen quickly) If I thought that she was going to be out of the picture soon I would simply tell him I was “really busy” for a bit.

 

Last night after he met me for dinner and drinks we went back up to his place and chatted for a bit, he was super tired and we cuddled up for a bit. After he fell asleep, I decided to drive home. I know I could have just stayed and I actually wanted to but I don’t want to confuse myself any further. Believe me that was really tough for me to do.

 

I really appreciate being able to write my thoughts out here. It helps to just have somewhere to go and vent. I guess I am just so frustrated. I hate bad timing. I hate that we both actually like each other and under normal circumstances I think could have a great thing. I hate worrying that if we get involved right now it would likely just be a “rebound” relationship. I hate knowing that after a traumatic relationship like his the best thing for him is some time alone (not involved in romantic relationship), which he and I seem far to close to just falling into. I hate wondering if this means I will have to walk away from this guy again. I hate the possibility that yet again, for the time being, I may have to lose one of my closest and oldest friends in this town. I don’t want to not have him in my life right now as I truly enjoy being with him as friends. I know I can’t change how things have happened thus far but it doesn’t stop me from wishing that things would have happened in a different way. But I guess there is no going back now, only moving forward.

[Arianna72]

So curiousity... if I can figure out some way to just be friends with him for now at what point is it appropriate to talk to him about the possibility of something more?

[Arianna72]

I really need some input here. (btw... will someone please go back and read that original post I linked up top and convince me I am crazy)

 

I just can’t believe I have managed to get sucked into this drama yet again. I felt like I was so over it. I don’t understand how a guy can say all these wonderful things to me when we are together and claim they don’t want to hurt me and yet treat me with such ambivalence the rest of the time. He is not doing anything at all about the ex still being around and she moved all her stuff back in while he was at work the other day then took off again and he has no idea where she is. I already pretty much know in the logical part of me that there is no way this guy is worth all the trouble, heartache and drama he brings into my life (to be honest I don’t even know how compatible we would really be if things could happen), and yet there is still this piece of me that really likes him and can’t seem to just let it go.

 

I have decided not to contact him again or even tell him that is my plan. I am going ahead with what I need to be doing for me (again…) Yet I can’t seem to stop myself from hoping that he will call me and tell me that he wants to be with me. I know if he does call I will pick up the phone and we will spend some more time together and I will have to start all over again with finding my resolve to not continue involving myself in his drama. I will pick up the phone not because I even love this guy but because I can’t seem to get him out of my head and I am lonely.

[TheSilentType]

Edit: nevermind

[Guest]

Arianna,

 

I think you are making the wisest choice here to stay away and move on. No matter how much you care and think that you both could make a great pair, please believe me when I tell you that this ex will never leave the picture. Even if he comes to you and spends the next year by your side, he will jump the minute she decides to reel him back into her drama. I say this from experience. You also will be constantly wondering if he will have had any contact with her during your time apart and this will only fuel future resentment. Save yourself the investment and the hurt as it will come.........

 

I know you are trying to reel your feelings in and just be friends...yet be truthful to yourself, YOU CANT!

[Arianna72]

I know all too well that you are right and that I can’t just be friends with him given how I feel and how he says he feels. I keep trying to tell myself I can just be casual about things when I know I am not. I am pretty set on not contacting him again and have even decided I probably shouldn’t talk to any of his family for a bit at least. (They have been counting on me to keep them informed about what is going on with his ex and are hoping he and I will get together)

 

A piece of me hopes he won’t even call me to ask what is up because I worry I won’t be able to resist just jumping right back in again. At the same time it makes me feel nauseous worrying that he won’t call. He also promised me tickets to his show (he is a stage tech at the theatre) and I would really love to see it, I normally see at least ½ the plays every year and this year I haven’t seen any.

 

It doesn’t help that I am lonely and bored right now and he is a lot of fun to spend time with (he is incredibly funny). There isn’t anyone else around that I am interested in dating and most of my female friends have moved away. Therefore I spend most of my time alone. I go from work, to the gym, to home and then start over again the next day. My son is 17 and we don’t spend much time together anymore, as he has a lot going on senior year and what not. Even when I manage to keep myself fairly busy I am one of those people whose brain keeps going even if I am occupied with something else (way to much time learning how to multi-task I guess). All of this makes for a horrible combination when trying to get over someone.

[Arianna72]

So after sitting around my house till after 11:30 I was feeling very antsy and depressed and decided I would head to the bar to have a couple drinks and relax some. I picked the one bar I figured he would not be in. I was having a fun evening playing pool when of course he showed up.

 

He claims the ex will be moving out of state next Monday for a new job. We shall see I suppose. He also said he checked about getting me tickets to his show next Sunday and that he wanted to see one of the other plays with me soon.

 

I am feeling really weird however because there was another girl from his work there who is an acquaintance of mine. She clearly looked put off at the amount of time he was spending with me (he sat with me all evening and didn’t really talk to her much). I know they are friends and that he has visited with her at her house a couple times. From her body language and what not it seemed like there may have been something more going on between them. He also didn’t seem as physically affectionate with me as he usually is. (I could just be paranoid I suppose). The bar closed and it almost felt like he was lingering until she was ready to leave but he ended up walking out with me anyways, then I walked my way and he went his way.

 

I had kind of wondered if something was happening with the two of them but then I know I am easily suspicious based on my past relationships. He has told me very clearly that other than the one time he and I slept together he has not been with anyone else (including the ex) and while I really do want to believe that I have very little trust in men anymore. I guess I do hope that it is all my imagination but…

 

Her and I talked about hanging out on Monday. I suppose I could try to figure out a way to surreptitiously ask her about him but she is on the same show as my old ex (his childhood friend… if you read the old post you know how twisted it all is) and if nothing is happening I don’t want her to know to much about how I feel about him.

 

And……

 

As you see from my post I have gotten all sucked in again that quickly. Of course the drinks I had aren’t helping any.

 

I am just typing here to share where I am at in the hopes that someone out there can make sense of my mess. Because I certainly can’t anymore.

[Guest]

Arianna,

 

Yes..you did get sucked in once again. Can't say I blame you as you heard everything that you wanted to hear. This guy sounds like bad news and I should tell you to trust your gut instincts a bit when you question his actions with his ex or any other women. At least he has given you a timeframe to base your actions......if Monday comes and she doesnt leave and/or his actions continue to dangle you into next week you will have your answer. Please dont sell yourself short here. You should not have to constantly worry about the trust issue with anyone, especially those that you get close with.

 

By the way, why was it that he went to the bar without calling you? Why didnt he call you immediately with the news of his girlfriends pending departure from his house and he only told you when he bumped into you? Also, as much as you like his family.....they need to get to know you without discussions of the ex...seems crazy to me that they rely on you for info.......they should be the ones pulling this jerk to the side and telling him that he is losing out on something great, you!

[Arianna72]

Well, she is supposed to find out if she is getting the job on Wednesday and if she gets it she will be gone by Monday. Again I don’t really think she will (why work when she knows he won’t remove her from his apt. and she can live there rent free) but this is what she is telling him. (or at least what he is telling me I should say). I am trying to get to that place of trusting my instincts again but it is tough when my last boyfriend was such a cheater. I always wonder if I am just projecting what his actions would be in a given situation onto every man I spend any time with.

 

As to why he went to the bar without calling me. For one… he tends to spend a lot of his time at the bars lately, as he doesn’t like being at home with the ex. He has also been drinking an awful lot (he did this last time they split as well, but wasn’t always like this). His show doesn’t get out till 12:30 and he showed up at the bar around 1 am… he rarely calls me that late.

 

I have no idea why he didn’t call me when she told him she would be leaving. I have no idea why he doesn’t call me very often at all. I ask myself this question all the time as none of this makes any sense to me. I wish I could understand his motives but I simply don’t. I think that is another part of why I get so easily sucked back in. I want to understand. It is like having an unsolved puzzle sitting in front of me and the urge to solve it overcomes all reason and sanity I have. Part of me wonders if it isn’t his way of keeping some distance between us? But again… I haven’t a clue.

 

I have known his family for over 14 years (my long term ex of 15 years grew up with his family, there is a lot of history here). I am close friends with his brother and we talk on the phone at least twice a week. (his family does not live in the area anymore) J is a somewhat closed person with his family (lot of trauma there) thus they try to get info from me. I do like his family and they like me and believe me his brother spends a lot of time telling him to lose the ex and see what happens with me. (his brother has a bit of a crush on me actually).

 

I want to go to the gym today but of course J and I have our membership at the gym together and I think he will be there today so now I have to avoid going there I suppose.

[Arianna72]

I could really use some more perspectives on this….

 

I am completely at a loss about what I should do. Believe me I have heard the advice given thus far; I just can’t seem to stop myself from wondering. What if he is being genuine? I know he is confused but what if there is some chance that things actually can work out? I know I haven’t been totally upfront with him about my feelings. I have tried to hold back a bit because I don’t want to scare him away. I don’t know if I should just come clean and tell him how much I like him. I could just let him always call me and but I worry that if I don’t let him know I am really into him he may just let the whole thing go. (he has plenty of other girls who would call him) My sister says I need to just enjoy things as they are now and try not to think about it too much. I just can’t seem to figure out how to do that. Despite whatever I tell myself (or him) I know I am already very emotionally invested in him and I don’t know how to pull back from that.

 

So the latest update. I managed to keep myself busy all week and didn’t call him. He called me on Friday to invite me out for dinner and drinks and to let me know he got me a ticket to his show for Sunday night. We went to dinner had a great time and on his prompting talked a bit more about where he was at. He feels like until he actually has C out of his house and his life that it is not fair to pursue anything with anyone. He said again that he really likes me a lot and that he often feels scared of his feelings for me because we have so much in common and I am everything he claims to be looking for; yet he doesn’t think he is ready to get involved in another serious relationship so soon and doesn’t want me to end up being some sort of “rebound” nor does he want to hurt me (or get hurt) or blow any possibility of us having something in the future. He also doesn’t want anyone to have any expectations of him right now as he isn’t sure he could live up to them. At the same time, he really enjoys hanging out with me and doesn’t want things to end up how they were before where we just stopped talking to one another. I asked him if it would be easier for both of us if just gave up any hope that something could happen and he said no, that unless that was what I felt I needed to do he didn't want me to just give up. I am so afraid this is just a case of horrible timing and I don’t know how to fix that.

 

We also talked about his feelings towards sex. J is a very attractive guy (also very funny sociable and has a great job) and girls are always hitting on him however he has always been a very monogamous guy and has been in relationships most of his life. Because of this he has had very few sexual partners (far fewer than me). He has made it clear that for him sex really means something and he gets very emotionally attached and has to really trust someone. (He has brought this up several times in the past as well). He told me again that I am the only one he has been with since several months before he and C broke up. I asked him about the girl from the other night and he told me that yeah he did like her and was attracted to her but that he was not interested in pursuing anything with her (plus they work together which he believes is a bad thing for relationships of any kind).

 

Obviously from all of this, the bottom line is he is simply not ready for anything right now, but wants to hang out with me. However after our conversation we were planning to drive downtown to play a couple games of pool, only his headlights weren’t working at all (they do that fairly often) so we ended up taking the backroads to his place and cuddling up on the sofa chatting. Even after the whole conversation, I started becoming quite "frisky" physically with him. I figured he would stop things if/when I went to far, he didn’t and we ended up having sex. Now I really don’t know what to think. I stayed the night at his place cuddled up to him and it was wonderful. He took me home before work the next morning. We didn’t say anything about what had happened.

 

I went to my sisters for the evening and Sunday I called him to find out where we were going to meet up after his show (that he gave me the ticket for). He wouldn’t commit to anything saying he thought the stage manager wanted everyone to take care of a few things after the show. I was disappointed as I thought we already made plans to at least hang out for a bit but I told him t I would go to the bar after and if he wasn’t busy, he should stop in. He showed up there right after the show. We chatted for like an hour. I said I wanted to go play pool down the street. He went to his place to let the dog out and met me there. A few of my other friends were there and I was talking to them as well when the girl from the other night showed up. He sat with us for another 20 minutes or so then went over to talk with her and their other friends from work. I started feeling a bit jealous and by the time the bar closed and he was still sitting with them I was actually a bit annoyed with him (even knowing that was silly) and ended up walking past him saying bye and leaving with my friend (I saw him drive home alone).

 

He called me Monday asking me if I was angry with him because he felt I scowled at him when I left. I had no idea how to explain what I was feeling at that point (not sure I even know); I know he did nothing wrong. He has been very upfront all along about where he is at. I told him I was tired and just wanted to get home but wasn’t at all upset with him. He seemed very relieved and told me that C had finally shown back up at his house and told him she got the job out of state. She told him she had to go back again on Thursday to talk to them and that she should be out “soon”.

 

If he is just “playing” me, I can’t understand why? He could be spending his time with any number of attractive fun women yet he chooses to spend time with me. If he really does feel the way he says why all the mixed messages. (I hate that I picked up that evil book “He is just not that into you” it is such an oversimplification)

 

What can I do at this point if I actually want to try for something with him in the future? I don’t want to be the rebound girl and I certainly don’t want to scare him away but I also don't want him to think I am happy with just being a "friend". I do understand he needs to figure out his own stuff but I don’t know how I should behave in the meantime?

[Guest]

What is there to think about here Arianna. You both are past the friends only stage...........and there is no turning back, especially from your perspective.

 

he is at the very least open and honest with you in that he is not ready to consider anyone for a serious relationship..........that is sure a lot more than I got from my ex in that she led me on for so long and then after a long time went by told me the same thing..........he does not want any responsibilities at this point and to be blunt, does not consider you enough to be willing to make that investment. The fact you both engage in sex is no surprise either. He is going to take all that you are willing to give him and push the envelope as far as possible, as long as its to his advantage. The minute you say something or place expectations on him, he will simply regurgitate his old saying, "He is not ready" and hope that you will accept it and go with the flow.

 

you sound like a real nice person. I don't think he is unkind in any way either yet it is evident that he is not ready for someone like yourself at the moment. The more you let him get away with things, the longer it will take for him to get to where he needs to be. I believe you are doing more harm than good by staying in contact with him at this point. As long as he knows how you feel about him, then he needs his space to figure out his life and determine what investments are important to him.

 

I know you like the intimacy and his friendship right now yet be honest with yourself.....it is causing you lots of unhappy thoughts and added stress. It is not how its supposed to be if this friendship was on the right track.

 

It has taken me a long time to digest what I am saying to you as I felt the same way about someone as you do him. There is not a day that goes by that I don't question my own actions towards her and wonder what might have been if I had just gone with the flow. Luckily I am able to resolve myself to knowing that I deserved more and if that person felt I was worthy, then they would have made the effort for me. It can be blamed on timing, lack of respect, not being in love, etc....but at the end of the day I, nor you, is getting what you need from this involvement.

 

Good luck as always.

[Guest]

So sorry I missed your last paragraph filled with questions.....what can you do to avoid being the rebound girl??? Your actions to date are making it very difficult to avoid having him see you as that. Why should someone change when they are getting everything their way? Only when you gain some self respect and show him that you demand more from him or else will he begin to see the changes he needs to make to win your attention. Trust me as your removal will not indicate to him your lack of interest. If he does not recognize whats needed to make you happy, then its not mean to be.I think he will respect you more if you did that! You can't control this situation with any of your actions....he is in control and will always be until you take that control away. Keep remembered my saying in an earlier post....why buy the cow when you get the milk for free.....................

 

By the way, in an earlier post you mentioned he said if she got the job she would be out by Monday........seems like she got the job yet is still around....how ironic...what happened?

[Arianna72]

I am not sure he really does know how I feel. I haven’t been very upfront about it. I have said I think he is a great guy and I like him and want to be his friend. I haven’t told him how much I like him because I didn’t want to scare him away. This is only the 2nd time he and I have had sex since we started seeing each other again back in July (other time being the first night we hung out together again in July). Before Friday night he had been pretty adamant about not going there with me and had always stopped things before they went to far as he was trying not to become to attached to me. I am unclear what changed Friday night and since we didn’t talk at all about it, I have no idea how he feels about it.

 

And yes if I am honest with myself I know that the situation is not making me happy and causing way more stress than it should. I just don’t want to have regrets when I look back if there is some magic secret that would allow me to “just go with the flow”.

 

As to the whole job thing... She told him she would know whether she got the job by Monday. Now she is saying that yes she got the job but needs to drive back down there again on Thursday for something? And then should be out “soon”. The whole thing with her just exhausts me. She always has another excuse. His step-mom is now talking about flying here and removing C from the house but that is the last thing he needs. He has to do that himself.

 

I have also worried that I am doing more harm than good by staying in contact with him (I know he gets a lot of emotional support from me, that could actually be helping him cope with the situation better than he would without me around) but I don’t know how to go about doing a NC thing especially since we aren’t even together right now. (Not like I can break up with him). Do I just say again that we can’t be friends right now and leave it at that? Do I just stop calling him and stop picking up the phone? Do I tell him how I feel about him and what I ultimately want from him and tell him not to contact me till he knows what he is doing?

 

I have considered writing him an email but it seems like this is a conversation that if I am going to have it is better done in person. But I am so afraid to have it. I don’t want to entirely lose him from my life again.

[Guest]

Arianna,

 

I think you are looking for any answers to justify "just going with the flow." I can't give you those nor would want to as I don't think it is the right approach. I guess in the end you should simply enjoy his company as long as you can emotionally handle it. No need to discuss your feelings with him as he has been open to tell you that he is not interested in anything more at the moment with you. My limits were reached two months ago by my ex when I just decided that her actions indicated disrespect towards myself. (nothing major just little things I thought I deserved better treatment on). Her answer was that her other friends don't require as much maintenance and I guess she was right, from her perspective I was just a friend and not entitled to any additional consideration. I have been NC since then and she must have figured it was best for us to be that way as she has made no attempt to contact me.

 

You will know your breaking point.

[Arianna72]

I suppose in some ways I am looking for a way to “justify” going with the flow because I do wish I could be that kind of person. I know that I tend towards over-analyzing everything and dwelling on things far more than I should. It has always been my greatest flaw.

 

There is however, a big piece of me that does think it would be a good idea to do NC at least for a little while. I am just not sure how to go about doing that. I have stopped calling him but I have not yet asked him to stop calling me. I don’t want to say “don’t call me anymore” with no explanation and I don’t know how to explain myself. Even when I resign myself to creating a bit of distance the moment my phone rings I feel that little twitter and can’t seem to stop myself from agreeing to meet up with him.

 

He called me last night and invited me to go have drinks with him. Apparently, he told C I stayed the night on Friday. She freaked out packed all her stuff (again, and a lot of his) and moved it back into the neighbors yard again and has disappeared. He thinks she will go back for the 2nd meeting with this new job today, stay there a while then come back in a couple weeks and get her stuff from the neighbors yard.

 

He and I talked about Friday night and he knows he should have stopped things. He gave no excuses for why he didn’t, other than that he didn’t want to stop me and he thinks I am incredible. He doesn’t want to lose my friendship and he doesn’t want to hurt me (or end up being like my ex to me). He again said he should not let anything happen between us because he just didn’t feel like it was “him” to have sex with anyone until he was ready to be in a monogamous relationship with them. I nearly found myself trying to convince him that we could have sex and just be friends until he was ready and to let me worry about my own emotions. I didn’t but what is wrong with me jeez!!!

 

He wants to become happy with himself again and thinks he probably needs to be single for a while and it scares him that he sees himself falling to easily into a relationship with me. He says he trusts and cares for me more than anyone else in his life right now and was very worried when he thought I was angry with him Sunday night.

 

Gahhhhhhhhhh……. I so wish I were a more laidback person when it came to stuff like this. I so wish I wasn’t as attracted to him as I am and didn’t have such strong feelings for him. What explanation do I give for going NC with him!

 

As for right now... I am actually feeling really good about things after our conversations last night. I feel like I can just be friends with him for now and see what happens but... I worry that tomorrow or next week or... I will find myself feeling all out of sorts again.

[Arianna72]

So his ex finally moved to CA and has not contacted him since then. We have been spending time together at least twice a week. Thing is he is still giving me really mixed messages. One minute he is talking about how he doesn’t want me to be the rebound girl, doesn’t want to hurt me (or get hurt), wants us to just be friends and doesn’t think he should have an intimate or sexual relationship with me because he is scared of his feelings for me right now. He will say he his friends have told him and he believes he needs to be single for a bit since he has NEVER really been single before and that every time he and I are intimate it is harder for him to keep perspective and not want to throw himself at the relationship 100%. Thing is every time we hang out he wants to talk more about where he is at and point out to me that I am the only person he has been intimate with since May and how much I mean to him etc etc. He talks about how I am the only person he trusts and how even though there are numerous women who are interested in him I am the only one he feels close to. He is very affectionate with me and will talk about plans with me for trips and going camping stuff like that all the time. Basically he will revert to talking about us like a “couple”

 

On Wednesday J invited me out to have drinks and after another of these “discussions” that he initiated I told him I was coming to the conclusion that I needed to just let go of any hopes I had that things could grow into something more than friendship with him. And asked him if it would be better for him if took a step back and kept the relationship strictly plutonic to let him figure out where he was at on his own. He said it would probably make things easier. I got up and went to order a drink, when I came back he looked at me and said "I am a bit confused about everything you have said tonight" I restated things and said I was moving on and letting go of anything more than friendship with him... He asked me if that is what I thought he wanted. I said “yeah isn’t that what you have been saying” he looked sad and asked me if I would ever really even want someone like him as a boyfriend. I told him that I really liked him I knew he had his flaws but yeah that I did want someone like him. He got this absolutely adorable grin on his face, grabbed my hand... leaned over and planted the most WONDERFUL kiss on me (best kiss I have EVER experienced in my life) then said... how about we try to actually go out on a really nice date this weekend. I was stunned for a moment... then I said... do you have any idea what you just did? He said... "I am hoping I convinced you to decide to give us a chance at being something more than friends... I am confused but I don’t want you to give up on things yet. You amaze me".

 

So… fast forward to our date this weekend and there we are having the same conversation again. Him saying he is scared, that he isn’t ready for anything with anyone right now, that he shouldn’t be intimate with me because he will get too attached to me etc. and me asking him if he is again trying to tell me that we should just be friends. I told him that his kiss on Wednesday really sent a different message and he needed to stop sending mixed messages if he wanted to just be my friend. He apologized then moments later he is saying “I want to do something I know I shouldn’t” when I am ask him what he takes a few moments then pulls me close and kisses me again. He says he doesn’t want to have sex with anyone but he misses having someone to sleep with at night but is again afraid to go there with me because he cares for me so much and doesn’t want to get more attached. Then as we are driving to the store he invites me to his house for a drink, I tell him that I probably shouldn’t have another drink if I am going to be driving home and he responds with “I want you to stay with me tonight”. I agree and we hang out till like 1 am just chatting and enjoying each other’s company. We go to bed and cuddle up with one another. Despite all of his talk we do end up having sex. (he definitely was the initiator this time)

 

I talked to my sister this morning and she says I need to just let things happen as they happen but I am so confused by all of his mixed messages. I want him to be able to do what he feels he needs to do for himself and I don’t want him to end up feeling like he just fell into a relationship with me that he isn’t ready for. At the same time I have now told him how I feel about him and that it shouldn’t be entirely my responsibility to keep our relationship in a plutonic place.

 

I know this guy is confused but so am I and I still don’t know how to proceed.