yesmaybe Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 I recently posted that MM is seriously considering leaving his wife because he didn't want to lose me (I was seriously dating, and thus starting to lose interest in MM). We've had our affair for almost 6 months now. Last week, I told MM it was over. But he pleaded with me to give him until July to leave his wife. He said, "I've only been considering leaving her for 3 weeks...I need to get used to the idea and I want us to talk more about what our future would look like." Yup, he gave himself an ultimatum. He said if he doesn't leave in July, then I should dump him because it means he doesn't love me enough and never will. I almost fell off my chair - only 2 months ago, I would have laughed if someone suggested he would even think about leaving his wife. In fact, it was such an outlandish idea that I decided to date other men rather than even think about it. That's what's so interesting about our affair. 2 months ago, I started dating other men, and enjoyed myself. I lost interest in JF. When JF figured this out, he wasn't pleading for me to take him back. I had never ended things. Instead, he was pleading for me to fall back in love with him. He was so afraid I would fall in love with this awesome, single guy I had been seeing regularly. So...I'm giving JF until July because I will regret it if I leave now. I am very comfortable with my choice. While there are no guarantees, and I have my moments of doubt - I know I will be ok no matter what choice he makes. In 2 months, we will no longer be in an affair. We will either be broken off, or in a real relationship. I still can't believe that he is pushing it foward like this.
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 If you want to see how sincere this guy is about being with you, you will want to tell him that you want no contact of any way, shape or form until he brings you signed and notarized divorce papers. You don't have to worry about messing up your chances with MM because I can pretty much guarantee you that if he is serious about leaving his wife, he will - particularly if he knows that he can't have you at all - not even to talk to as long as he is married. But... the chances of him actually leaving are slim - so continue to date that awesome single guy you mentioned. Who knows... you may even end up happy enough to not really care when MM renegs on his end of the deal. If he actually leaves his wife and divorces her, cross that bridge when you get there but right now don't throw away opportunities you have for something that is so uncertain.
Walking away Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 I agree 100% with LB. Totally and completely agree.
Author yesmaybe Posted May 21, 2006 Author Posted May 21, 2006 NC is a very effective tactic in general. But currently, it may not be the right one to use in my situation. My impression is that JF has given up on his wife. The next 2 months is not about whether to leave her...it's about whether to come to me. If it were the former, NC would be perfect. But right now, he is really scared. He has verbalized, several times, that he is very worried that I will eventually leave him. He is also worried that we won't be happy together. He is also scared of hurting his wife, son...and yes, himself. I don't think NC will help anyone. If I put myself in his shoes - would I want to go to a woman who cuts off contact with me when what I want most is reassurance that she will be there for me? He already knows I can happily date other men. He knows these guys will still be around in 2 months. He knows awesome single guy will be around in 2 months. It's only 2 months - I won't be losing anyone. I don't need to prove that my life will immediately move on. At this point, I'm focused on my actions, so I won't regret anything no matter the outcome. That means acting with as much dignity and strength as possible. So, while there is a helluva lot more risk being open and loving during the next 2 months...I am comfortable with it. Again, no matter what, I will be ok.
whichwayisup Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 My impression is that JF has given up on his wife. The next 2 months is not about whether to leave her...it's about whether to come to me. That is your impression, not his. Problem is, he has to do NC with you to see how HIS life is without you. The fair thing for him to do is, separate with his wife, be in NC with you - And then let him be on his own for afew months, to see how HIS life goes, without two women in his life. Him ending his marriage and ending up with you is NOT a secure thing for him which is why he isn't leaving his wife. It's not a sure bet that things will workout between you two - give up his life, everything that he has worked for, money, a house, friends, family, inlaws...etc...etc...All for you. So, he needs time to weigh this around and see if it's all worth giving up... Just if he is going to leave his wife, he also should be prepared to be on his own incase you two don't work and he doens't go running back home to his wife for another chance...That is what most MM do after things aren't going well between them and the OW - They want their old life back... I don't know what to tell ya, it's your life but just be sure this is it! If the time comes and he bails on you, DO NOT WAIT FOR him to make another broken promise to you. End it and move on.
Jessie61 Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Yup, he gave himself an ultimatum. He said if he doesn't leave in July, then I should dump him because it means he doesn't love me enough and never will. Yesmaybe, Why July?
lovernotafighter Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 bad thing with in 2 months time you might fall totally in love with him and it will hurt so much more when he doesn't leave. I think if I would have ended things with my MM sooner..I actually might have been with him...but we weren't on the same page...I had to catch up and now that I have he isn't gonna go anywhere *tsk*
Sami_D Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 I'm with others who think that he's unlikely to do anything in the next two months. He says he's decided to leave, but: He has verbalized, several times, that he is very worried that I will eventually leave him. He is also worried that we won't be happy together. He is also scared of hurting his wife, son...and yes, himself. He sounds like he is still nowhere near actually leaving... too many things he's worrying about here. And some of them are... you. It sounds too much to me like he's trying to convince you (has succeeded too) that you need to be there for him while he makes his mind up if you're the one for him. Hmm. So you have to stop dating others, keep in contact with him... and prove something to him? What happens at the end of July, when he's still not absolutely sure? Because I doubt he will be. I don't think NC will help anyone. If I put myself in his shoes - would I want to go to a woman who cuts off contact with me when what I want most is reassurance that she will be there for me? I used to think like that too. My MM decided to leave when I told him that I couldn't continue the affair because it was affecting my health. I asked him if he wanted me to wait for him while he told her. Initially he said yes, he wanted to talk to me more about it. And I did try... so hard... to stay there for him. But he was going home 'to tell her tonight' for too long... and in he end he told me that it was actually me being there for him, supporting him, being sympathetic when he hadn't managed it, that was stopping him doing anything!!! So, 3 and a half weeks ago, he said... that if he was ever going to get round to it, we had to do the NC thing! I was OK with that because my nerves were shot to pieces and our conversations were just not happy ones at all! So... back to you! I really think you need to do more than just hang around while he ponders. Keep dating, keep on with your life. Cut back on contact if you can't cut it off. It doesn't mean you've abandoned him! But it will make him move a lot quicker, if he's going to. Oh, also... if he's going to leave his M, he needs to be doing that for HIM, and because the M is no longer workable. NOT because you'll be there for him. You can't guarantee him that you'll always want him... can you?
whichwayisup Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 There are no guarantees in this situation either way. Even if he decides the leave the marriage, I agree with sami, he should be doing it because he'd be better off alone. Let him have time alone, see how his life IS without ANY woman for him to be with. And if things do work out between you two, who knows in the future if the guilt would be too much for him, or being away from his kids...he could always end up going back. Or your relationship could be good for a long time...Or not - It could have problems, trust issues - Like he left his wife for you, so who's to say he'll not do the same to you and have another "OW" with you?? Time to not sit and wait for him, LIVE your life, and don't put the ball in his court so much.
Sami_D Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Yes, WWIU... that is another reason I'm happy about doing NC. MM needs time to decide for himself that his M is over... he needs to make that decision, and implement it, without me breathing down his neck about it. I know my MM isn't the type to blame me for something he did... but I do think that there is the possibility of resentment and regrets... and (even internalised, unspoken, not quite realised) blame later if the OW is there tapping her watch waiting for him to leave. I know that always bothered me, and it's why I never did put in an ultimatum or time-limit until he more or less asked for it... I felt backed into a corner about it. (of course that was partly because I was scared he'd not stick to the time limit and then I'd have to get all harsh about things ... I'm rambling )
Walking away Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Another reason for NC: How can they miss us if we never go away?
Iwanttohope Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 OK--everyone seems to be doing great with NC except me... I thought I was going to be fine today but the flood gates have opened again. Its day 18 for me. I guess I didn't think HE would make it this long since we've attempted NC so many other times and never made it past four or five days. Somewhere in my mind I've been holding onto hope that he wouldn't be able to do it. But, you know what...he is able to do it. He is fully able to go on without me and be seemingly fine. I keep thinking there is a way to grieve this the "right" way so I won't hurt anymore. The grief isn't leaving. How are all of you able to do this so well? I'm not going to contact him because I honestly don't think he would talk to me and that would hurt too much to stand. But, I am tired of swimming:(
Sami_D Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 How do you know he's fine? How do I do it..? I don't know... a combination of tactics (some of which I've written about on here... I also keep a diary and put all my rubbish thoughts, angst, positive self-talk and circular reasoning with myself in there!... it reads like an argument between 4 or 5 discontented people, that's how messy my mind is!!!). I also trust that I won't feel like s*** ALL the time. And I don't. Stick with it. You are at the absolute critical point at the moment, I think. I have done NC before, and it was day 17 when I thought.. no, I can't do this any longer. So I texted him. To his credit he texted back, 'yes you can'. But... I couldn't and I asked him to ring me, which he did. Part of that was the absolute fear that when he said that I could stick with it it wasn't because he wanted me to stick with it for US... but because he had decided he wanted me out of his life. It wasn't true, but I SO worried that he did. It's just the mind playing tricks! Two days later I was with him. And... he was overjoyed, he wanted to buy Champagne... and all I could think was, what are we celebrating..? I felt absolutely awful for being so weak. For ages afterwards I thought I couldn't bring up the idea of him leaving, because I felt I'd failed. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing him again... but I had achieved nothing, really. I thought... he didn't give in, didn't leave her and call me... didn't care I look back now and I realise that I did learn a lot, and that little practice NC has helped me to cope this time. I'll tell you something... after 17 long, long, looooong days of NC he said to me that: I hadn't given him enough time to even start thinking about doing it Two weeks is nothing. You can't possibly know what's going through his mind. It WILL be different than you think... their early days of NC are FAR easier than ours... because they are wondering... will we cave..? It hasn't hit home to them yet... LOTS more time is needed...
Sami_D Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 I keep thinking there is a way to grieve this the "right" way so I won't hurt anymore. The grief isn't leaving. How are all of you able to do this so well? I'm not going to contact him because I honestly don't think he would talk to me and that would hurt too much to stand. But, I am tired of swimming:( There isn't a way you can get round the grief. Just let it come, sob... and then recover... and keep swimming again until the grief and fear comes back... then deal with it then. It will get easier, I promise.
movinon05 Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Sami is absolutely right. You don't know, you're assuming and your mind is playing tricks on you. Its summertime and the pool is open. Keep swimming. (Unless you're having winter somewhere, then I say, join a gym and swim indoors!!)
Iwanttohope Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Two weeks is nothing. You can't possibly know what's going through his mind. It WILL be different than you think... their early days of NC are FAR easier than ours... because they are wondering... will we cave..? It hasn't hit home to them yet... LOTS more time is needed... I pray that you are right about this being the critical point... It almost seems like he had time to digest everything by the time he told me he couldn't stand to hurt me anymore by asking me to wait. He listened to his counselors advice about taking time away from both of us--which I think is great advice--I honestly do--but I'm telling you it hurts like a son of a b----!! Do they really hope we'll cave? My mind tells me he's relieved I haven't. Why doesn't my mind say things like "he's going to realize one day what he's lost" or " he's got to have hard times with this just like me"... He has an amazing capacity for staying "on task" so I assume this is just as easy as any other task set before him. UGH!
Walking away Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 I have had many attempts at true NC, and only this time have I succeeded. So, I have had lots of practice with this... I, too, am at Day 18. And, from my experience with my xMM in the past, and from what he told me when we started this final NC, he cannot nor could not imagine life without me in it. Well, it was time for him to not only imagine it, but experience it. I needed more and deserved more than he could give. And, THAT is what is keeping me going. Knowing that good is going to come out of this. I honestly feel better than I have in months. I look better and feel better....and it shows to the outside world. And, I don't want to go back to how I felt before. Remember, I had many starts and stops with NC, so unfortunately, I have had alot of practice... But...practice makes perfect and now I am running the race and fighting the fight on MY terms. With or without him....I can say that I did this MY way. Hugs WA
lovernotafighter Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 Two weeks is nothing. You can't possibly know what's going through his mind. It WILL be different than you think... their early days of NC are FAR easier than ours... because they are wondering... will we cave..? It hasn't hit home to them yet... LOTS more time is needed... I pray that you are right about this being the critical point... It almost seems like he had time to digest everything by the time he told me he couldn't stand to hurt me anymore by asking me to wait. He listened to his counselors advice about taking time away from both of us--which I think is great advice--I honestly do--but I'm telling you it hurts like a son of a b----!! Do they really hope we'll cave? My mind tells me he's relieved I haven't. Why doesn't my mind say things like "he's going to realize one day what he's lost" or " he's got to have hard times with this just like me"... He has an amazing capacity for staying "on task" so I assume this is just as easy as any other task set before him. UGH! I know with my past with MM it always seemed like it took a least 3 whole days before he either adopted my opinion or what ever I had to say sunk in. I know with our past NC's they were terrible on him..since we work together I know everything,because he is a supervisor on another shift. his work went into the toilet ,everyone was b*tching about him and he was vomiting constantly. I heard this and threw my self on his mercy..and I swear it took a full month before he acted like himself again..I know I hurt him that badly. he did say he thought I was waiting for him to call me and he didn't because I initiated NC. which made me think we are just playing games. I believe this time around in NC will be easier for my MM because I believe he drove me to it by being a retard..wearing his wedding band?? he's not stupid I can only assume he did this with purpose. I told my MM no ultimatum..in fact I told him his window of opportunity has past and though I love him,I don't plan on forgiving him..the choice was his..he blew it. believe me ,your MM will realise what he's lost..right now he has to lick his wounds and bruised ego. I know my MM might not see it now but I guarantee the first time after NC when the wife treats him like he's a two year old he will be thinking differently. Iwanttohope remember you a creature unlike no other..there is only one you..and if wants to lose you ,many days he will be asking himself...what if? I'll tell you my MM I don't believe will ever forget me...I was his lover..not his mom..which is what he has..big difference there.
Walking away Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I agree with LNF. We are not easily forgotten....
lovernotafighter Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I agree with LNF. We are not easily forgotten.... nope...I don't know WA but since the NC thing came along so often I made sure I was a perfect saint when we got back together knowing that the end was very near...perfect of everything and yes,I embellished my very full life to him as well (it is full,yes.but he thinks it's a life of a super model lol!) I made sure he wouldn't for get me...spoiled him rotten. was sexy as hell and the best friend he could ever want. I figured he'd either leave and be with me or always wished he had..that's good enough for me.
Walking away Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I have given my xMM NO REASON to villify me. I, like LNF, walked away with class and dignity and self respect. Nope. Wasn't gonna give him ANY reason to look back at me and say....Nah, she wasn't that great....
lovernotafighter Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I think the worst thing my MM could possibly say about me is.." well she smoked from time to time" that's it. Iwanttohope,I'm not doing great with NC at all...but to all appearances to the rest of the world I'm on top of my game... I even had a close friend tell me she idolises me and wishes she could handle things like me...if she only knew inside I'm dieing yanno? but you can do this..god it's hard but keep telling your self your worth it girl..cause you are!
SHortyAnGel Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 w/ NC do you have to tell them?? to cause more impact....
lovernotafighter Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 w/ NC do you have to tell them?? to cause more impact.... honestly...when I tried NC with out telling him...is when he panicked..ringing me none stop and such..so I don't think so. the knowing part makes it final and no mystery
Iwanttohope Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I didn't leave him with anything that he could possibly vilify me for except that I did say I was devastated and hurt the day he told me he coudln't stand to watch me hurt anymore. It was pretty obvious from the uncontrollable sobbing. Even then I knew that he was/is loving me by doing what his counselor suggested. He's trying to work through HIS issues without the input of either his W or me--how can I not respect that? The reason that things came to a head so quickly is because his W went totally outer limits--had his cell phone cut off and threatened my child. He panicked when she threatened her--so did I. Its very sobering when someone threatens your child over something you have participated in. She later apologized according to him but you have to wonder about a person that goes after a little girl. My xMM went throught the sobbing and vomiting at work as well with our previous attempts at NC--this time, however, he walks into work, does his job, barely speaks to anyone and then leaves at the end of the day. There is an older woman at work that I always called our "den mother" and he called her nightly on his way home during previous NC's... he wouldn't even speak to her for the first 14 days of our NC this time. Not one single word--couldn't even look at her. I'm hoping that's his way of coping. She says its just too hard to talk to someone so closely associated with me. Who knows. ...its 9:22pm here at my house and I've almost made it through day 18...
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