Not sure?

[Daremo_06]

I'm 41, GF is 33. We first met in Oct 08. Dated for about 6 months, and I ended it in April 09 because I didn't feel like it was right. She wasn't able to open up about things and got easily angered by things, jealous, insecure. I wanted to remain friends, she said ok but needed space. About 2 months later, I emailed her to say hi, and we started talking. Started doing things together as friends, she was now dating someone that knew though not well. We would go to wine tastings, I would invite them over for dinner because I like cooking and entertaining. Dec 09, he breaks up with her. I kept her company, but did not do anything but stay her friend. About 2 months later we were watching the Olympics together and things clicked and we started dating again. She moved in with me in June 2010 even though I have a son that stays with me for the summer (He was 15 at the time). It was a learning process for us both, and she did pretty well for a woman with no kids and who is a single child. We went to Italy in Oct 10, had a blast together.

 

Fast forward to this summer. I have had a rough year at work, too much on my plate and I started escaping into video games. My son was up again and it was tougher this time around. He has his own issues, the best way I can describe it is like having a new employee every day. Highly frustrating. Just before he was to leave, she went out to eat with me and told me she was moving out before things exploded in a huge ball of fire. She said she wanted to remain friends and to try work things out, she wanted me to see how she lived and to do things on her terms.

 

I have struggled with her moving out and we have talked a couple times since, even had plans to see a therapist together and she changed her mind about going about 3 hours before the appointment saying that she was of the mind she had nothing she had to work on.

 

I did a great deal of thinking over the next few days, and realized I had really let myself slide as far as taking care of myself, not talking to her, avoiding life ect ect. I wrote it all out in a letter where I told her I cared about her deeply and I wanted to work things out even if that ment taking some time apart to do that. I also stressed I wanted to remain friends.

 

A few days later she contacted me asking if I could help fix her microwave, I said sure. Then in the conversation I asked if she had read the email and she said she had and that she would talk to me this weekend about it.

 

Friday we went out for drinks and apps and she brought it up and we talked about it. At one point she said "I moved out and broke up with you". Which was different from what I was told before. She said she needed to see a great deal of improvement in me, which she hadn't seen anything of yet. Obviously, as it was only about 2 weeks or so.

 

We still agreed we wanted to be friends, which is honestly ALSO what I want. I got some more answers as to what the real reasons were for her moving out. The most important one being that I didn't come to her and talk. She said she tried to work on us and tried to get me to talk to her, but I really didn't see it. She said it shouldn't had taken her moving out to get my attention. While she was right about that, I said she had my full attention now. I also said that I am working on things for myself, finishing up those projects, getting my head back in shape. Doing things for me, not for her. (I have done a good deal of relationship before having been married and divorced)

 

We ended the conversation on a positive note and went on to go shopping looking for a few things for her place and it was pretty much as if we were still dating, or at least the friends part still works quite well.

 

She came over Sat afternoon and while she was over, we talked about the garden we had and talked about what to plant next year, and she kept saying things like we can plant this or that. It was all light stuff though and did not talk about the relationship at all. We talked about her taking some of the fun board games we would play to her place so we could play there and she teased me saying she wanted all the games she usually beat me at.

 

Sunday we went together to an event some mutual friends had bought tickets to a few weeks back. We had a few beers and we started talking about little stuff, and she mentioned something that turned the conversation to sort of reminiscing about things. I talked about some of the cards I found that she left behind and she said had she known they were there she would have kept them. There was a good deal of direct eye contact and I could see something there. I pointed out how now we were finally talking about deep real tangible stuff and that I had wanted to do this with her for a long time. I asked her to think about it and she said she would. She also said she could be very cold and would write off "lost time". There was more conversation, but I never lost my cool, I kept calm and at the very end when she dropped me off at home, I said I am still your friend and she said I am still yours too.

 

There are plenty more details, but that would make this post much longer than it needs to and I probably put more into it than necessary.

 

Here is what I feeling.

 

1. I am very frustrated that I realize that I need to work on the relationship after its ending/ended?. I feel frustrated because I did not understand she was trying to get me to talk to her, to work on things. She did say she can be too subtle about things sometimes. I *HONESTLY* believe this is the kind of thing that can be worked out, as the root cause is lack of good communication. There was no infidelity, no abuse, nothing thats a huge giant red flag and obstacle to overcome in that manner.

 

2. I miss her a ton because not only was she my girlfriend, she also was my best friend and we did EVERYTHING together. Its really really hard to just not have that. I believe that I can be friends with her, and at times I am very sure of it and other times I am not so sure. Emotions runing all over the place basically. We had been friends before, and I think we can do it again.

 

3. I am feeling blessed by the huge amount of support I have gotten from mutual friends and family. They have all pretty much been saying they think we are a great couple together and they all want to see us work it out. My marriage ended badly due to my poor behavior (infidelity) and so this experience of not doing something catastrophic and having the support of everyone is new to me. I have a ton of people to lean on and its really helping.

 

I have started putting things in place for myself. Gone back to my therapist that I had not seen in a few years. Joined a gym (she is a part time spin/yoga instructor at a different one), started running more (she had gotten me interested in trying it), and put alot of effort into finishing the projects at my house. I have friends willing to help me get replacement furniture and even help me financially if I need it.

 

I am in a good place, but dammit I DONT want to give up. I feel like she found a little bit of adversity and jumped ship. One of our mutual friends knows her pretty well, she is an older woman and has been talking to her a bit. She is on my side and feels that my ex?GF has gotten an ego from her recent promotion at work and has really gotten selfish and self-centered recently. I know she is going to talk to her about that soon as well.

 

So that's some of the story. I am expecting that most of the responses are going to be either. No contact for a while or move on. I am trying, but its so hard to not reach out, especially since we are text message junkies and were very very comfortable keeping in touch that way.

 

Thoughts?

[olivec]

Thats a hard situation and one i can relate to as i've gone through a very tough breakup myself recently. And the root of it was i'm a wear my heart on my sleeve type guy and she was the type of girl who didnt say much unless you really pushed for it. Man your just gunna have to see if she'll come back and in the mean time focus on yourself. And n/c has been very hard for me to texting everyday including wishing eachother good morning everyday. However I would go that route for awhile because you both need space.

[Daremo_06]

So what do I do about the microwave that I am getting the parts for? If I do the work its free, otherwise its a hefty chunk of $$$ to get it fixed. And there are other things, such as I still have her snow tires she needs to pick up at some point and she is going to help me pay for the bagster dumpster I had gotten over the summer for the home improvements.

 

I realize some of this is me not wanting to let go, but on the other hand in some of those cases there is financial impact as well.

[Daremo_06]

Another update: Checked in with a close friend who has done a lot of this relationship work as well. She didn't see a problem with telling her about the microwave parts and then take things by ear. So I did that and she was quite happy the parts will be in by the end of the week. We chatted about an event this weekend she was also invited to, and she wasn't sure if she should go due to my family being there. I told her they don't hate her, they know we are adults and will figure it out ourselves. The couple making the invite wouldn't have sent it if they didn't want her there.

 

She definately is not giving me the cold sholder, which is why I am hopeful of having a real chance to work things out at some point. I am also aware it could just be her being A) lonely and B) nice and not wanting to hurt me.

[ChelleBelle]

Hi there, speaking from a woman's point of view.

 

You need to really reach out and try to communicate at a deep and meaningful level. You need to connect with her. She sounds an OK lady. Sounds like you pushed her too far and you neglected her and the relationship. Most men hide their heads in the sand and don't approach the real issues or even talk about them. Like nothing is wrong, when in a woman's prospective everything is wrong and you should have noticed her reaction and comments, long before the final showdown.

 

This is lack of communication. When a woman finally hits the reject button, she has clearly made her decision to bail out long before the guy realises that all is lost. We women have already assessed all the negative points and evaulated the true value of the relationship long before u guys pick on the issues. Most men, only realise what they have lost until the final melt down and it is like, 'hey what did I miss?' Women think you should have picked up the vibes and comments long before the melt down.

 

If you are brave enough to face the music, at this point, us women tend to bring all the skelatons out of the cupboards and you guys just have to take the punches. Most men don't want the melt down and back off.

 

Why did you let it happen? U knew she was leaving and yet you did not stop her. I do not think NC is the answer. If u love her and want her, you need to get your boxing gloves on an fight for her and your relationship.

 

If you don't, she will think that her evaluation was correct and that you are not worth the pain. Essentially, she needs to know she is the priority and valued.

 

Of course, if you do not want to emotionally commit then that is another issue.

 

Hope I have helped you.

[Daremo_06]

Chelle,

 

You have given me help that I wasn't sure I was going to get from here. She has essentially pushed the reject button. Feeling that I will not make the effort and is angry about that. Once I fixed my own cranial-rectal ingratiation issue and realized the actual problem, I have been wanting to work on things on a deep level. I have started working on things for me, finishing up the things around my house I had started and not finished, ect ect.

 

I wasn't going to bring this up because I was sort of dismissing it as radical and rather unhealthy, but two different people have suggested my seriously thinking about how important she is to me and if she is that important to me, to propose to her. Obviously not just out of the blue though. One of the people suggesting this is an older male friend of the family and he and I talked talked last night and said that I should consider letting her know I screwed up by not opening up to her and running way to other distractions (video games/internet ect ect) and ask her for help to overcome that. He also said relationships have hills and valleys and he relayed a story of how he met his wife of 25 years and in 3 months they were married. They had spent some time together and he had to go on a business trip across the country. He went and bought tickets for her and then said " I am going away on this business trip and I want you to come with me" and then handed her the tickets. He said he did that to take away the choice as it were, sort of taking control of the situation. He also said that was the hill or mountain as he put it that they were on, it was a good point in the relationship and things built on it. Obviously she could have said no, but she didn't and 25 years later they are still together.

 

I have a trip for work going out to CA in Nov and my GF and I had talked about her coming out for part of it and us going off to wine country since we love that stuff. I had talked about it with her even as recent as this past weekend and she still seemed receptive to going, was just concerned about money. This older friend said what I should do is think long and hard about what I want, and if its her, then take her on this trip and if things are clicking then perhaps I propose or give some sort of indication to her that I am serious about wanting her in my life as more than just a friend.

 

Is this crazy? From the relationship work I have done, some of which is based around dependent and co-dependent issues, this seems to be way over the top. My good friend I mentioned earlier though, she said in the right circumstance its not out of the realm of reason.

 

I am not ready to go out tomorrow and buy a ring and I have plenty more thinking to do, but I just wanted to hear more opinions on that line of thinking.

 

I really appreciate the responses so far, thanks everyone!

 

R.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Daremo_06

[ChelleBelle]

Hello Daremo,

 

I agree totally with your colleagues.

 

As a man you have failed to read the signs and she has taken this, which is totally understandable, as lack of self interest, lack of commitement and general indifference. Essentially you have failed her and failed to meet her expectations in the relationship. She has hit the reject button. We women understand this. Why invest in a man who does not deserve you? Nonetheless, not all is lost with you.

 

The key issue here, is not to do NC but to hang on.

 

You now need time to really evaluate how you truly feel about her and your future. But if you love and believe you have a future, hang on and don't let go.

 

Everyone has choices. This is the time for you to 'shine'

She is waiting for you to be the man, she believes you are. Make that emotional connection with her and be the man you need to be in the relationship to make to happen.

 

If you have doubts, then be man enough to let her go, but be honest enough to let her know why you are letting go and be true to the love you once had.

 

Remember to always be bigger than the moment and be gracious if she rejects you. Be brave and worthy of her love and you may be surprised at the results.

[Daremo_06]

Chelle,

 

I realized in re-reading my posts, I forgot to mention that she has told me she is not in love with me anymore. (dumb thing to forget to say... but alot on my mind) But I wonder if she is saying that because she is angry and hurt that I checked out of the relationship? On the other hand, since yesterday we have texted a good deal and its been nice fun banter as usual between us. We also have plans to cook dinner together and play a game/watch a movie Friday night, though she did ask me if I was going get all "emo". To which I said I wont, I promise.

 

Is any of this a red flag to you?

[Daremo_06]

anyone else want to chime in? I'm open to opinions

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Daremo,

 

Thanks for the support on my thread. I will respond to you on the thread on recent events.

 

I think you are handling things perfectly. Not being too pushy but still very much in the frame. Good luck on Friday. She may open up alittle more to you. Do you really think/feel that she does not love you? She could be saying that because she is unsure of the situation between you both and her feelings. She will be weary and I think she maybe testing the water. She will be looking for action and not just words and you will have to definately pull a rabbit out of the hat if you wish to be with her longterm. Be sure this is the route you want to go down, else you can keep it at the friendship level but not go the whole hog as it were.

 

Are you intimate with her? How is the chemistry. I ask this, because this is a key clue to how she is feeling, even if she does not say she loves you, if your sleeping together then she definately has more feelings than she is verbally displaying. This may very well be your last opportunity and you do not want to blow it. I know if my X boyfriend took me out I would find it real hard to keep my hands off him. The chemistry is that strong and hence why I do not want to see him whilst I am in the vulnerable emotional state. Is she touchy feely or distant?

 

She is not going to go back into a fully emotionally committed relationship with you unless she sees results and feels secure about 'letting you get close'

 

The break down in the wine country is a hugely positive move. If she commits to go, you need to really evaluate her true feelings before you go or it could be a disaster. Do you think she would be ready for a proposal? I can't tell from your posts. Obviously, if swhe has fallen out of love with you, then this is a non brainer so if you decide to go for it., you need to really be sure of how she feels about you. A rejection and bad timing would damage your friendship at the level it is now.

 

Your out with her tomorrow, see if you can gently try to get some idea on where her true feelings lie, without putting her under pressure and jeapordise your present relationship with her.

 

Let me know how it goes. And Good Luck. don't blow it.

[Daremo_06]

Chelle,

 

I have to say you have been a ray of hope for me that I did not expect to have. As I had posted previously, I truly thought I was going to have to go NC and that definately is not the approach that will work here.

 

Here is where we are at. She moved out on Aug 11 and we have not been intimate or even kissed other than as friends.

 

We ended up just meeting tonight for a drink and dinner because her friend wanted to go out tomorrow night. I was determined to follow Al's rules and not say too much. And she had made me promise no getting drunk and getting all "emo", which I had done. Well we started talking about light things at first and then she brought up somethings about what bothered her in the relationship. So I started pulling questions from the reading the tea leaves section. I asked her what she felt I needed to change about myself. Well, she told me. Lots of stuff, from little things like when I left dirty socks on the kitchen table to my turning to video games instead of talking to her, and other things. We talked about other things and I mentioned the website to her and wanting to go through those things on the site with her. She said she would do that. She did try to stipulate that she would help me for me and not for her. I responded with, I want to work on these things because they will help me and because she had not stated that there is 0 chance we can get together again. Again there was the eye contact and there is something there, but I can clearly see that she is not going to let her guard down anytime soon. As you said before, it appears she wants to be very sure that I am working on me and that I am improving myself and that she does matter that much to me.

 

I told her other things, like that I had done a huge amount of this relationship work in the past and that I had stopped using the tools and the past few days of looking through the material has made me realize how stupid that was. I even told her that I had held back because I wasn't sure how to open up that first deep intimate conversation.

 

I think that no matter what, if I want to have her back as my partner that I have a TON of work to do, but I actually welcome it. If we can work on the material on Al's site together then I feel really optimistic that either we truly do accept we are only friends and I will be fine moving on, or that we will be back together.

 

As far as touchy feely, we sat close to each other on the bar and our legs were touching for most of the night. Also spoke to her about wine country and she wants to save money so even though I said it wouldn't cost her anything other than what we spent on wine and dinner, she wants to save. So I could buy the tickets and present them to, but that would put her in an awkward position i think. So i think I need to scrap that idea. I can reschedule the training for a couple months later from now and pull off the same sort of trip, so I very well might do that and save it as an ace in the hole.

 

Bottom line.. I *THINK* she wants to see big changes in me and would be optimistic about going back out with me at that point. My bottom line is that I am going to work on those tools from Al's site and if her and I remain friends or more, either way *I* will be ok and more present and involved in the next relationship either with her or someone else.

 

Will I feel this way tomorrow? Probably not.. but right now I do

 

Chelle, thanks again for the help! Wish I could give you a hug as I think you REALLY need one from a good friend. God knows I have needed one a few times over the past few weeks. Going to your thread now to post there.

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Rob,

 

Spot on. Bang on the money. This is exactly how to handle things.

 

Are you going to see her tonite? try and figure out how the chemistry is between u without putting her on the spot or jeapordising your present position.

 

Legs touching isn't enough really, but at least she wasn't giving you the cold shoulder. I think if she accidently goes for your hand or touches you that would be a clearer indication. Eye contact is good too. She may approach some of the issues on your relationship tonight and try and sound you out on some pointers, as she must be thinking too. Let her take the lead though and be as supportive and positive as possible.

 

Wish I was strong enough to see my X though, but I would just cave in and probably end up in bed with him if I saw him.

 

Keep me posted and have a good night. Bet u feel nervous.

[Daremo_06]

Chelle,

 

Originally the plan was to fix her microwave while she cooked dinner Friday night. Then it turned out a girlfriend of hers wanted to get together and it wasn't clear if it was going to be Thurs or Fri night. Yesterday, she emailed me asking if we could shift everything to Thurs night. I didn't have all the parts yet, so we changed it to just getting a drink. I had tried suggesting my bringing a bottle of wine to her place and some ice cream for dessert, and she said I just want to get a drink. So we went and got a drink and ended up having dinner at the bar as well. (On a side note, that was a perfect example of one of the tea leaves showing that *I* am not listening to what she is saying. I realized this and during dinner I apologized for that.)

 

On the intimacy. There wasn't anything overtly from her. She did not pull away from our legs remaining in contact, but she didn't really initiate anything either. Right now, I believe she is firmly viewing me as a friend only. I can see something in her eyes, but shes a very strong woman and I really believe I have to prove that I am worthy of her for that wall to come down again.

 

The physical intimacy to me is less important to me than the emotional and intellectual intimacy we have started to share with each other. The more I have read over Al's site, the more excited I have gotten about the prospect of working towards a mature or vintage love as he calls it. I have done this work before, and to have someone like her to work with towards that real goal is something I have wanted to experience. I will really really have to keep a firm clamp on that because she has to want to do this too and rushing her is the wrong thing to do. This will be very tough for me as I can tend to rush things, especially when excited about them.

 

So I won't be seeing her tonight, but tomorrow we are fixing her microwave and cooking dinner together. If she wants to talk about more of the intimate stuff, I would love that. In fact, I think I will print out some of the stuff from Al's site, but I will not bring it up or out unless she indicates she wants to continue the discussion. Sunday we are going to a friends house for a graduation party for his daughter, his starting of the school year (he's a teacher) and the most important reason, drink some of the wine he and his wife brought back from France during the summer. (Incidentally, he is the same older man that suggested I propose to her, which at the moment is definitely off the table as I have a TON of work to do before I am a whole enough person to consider that never mind rebuilding the relationship I have seriously fractured)

 

Lastly,

 

I am nervous, but I am much more at peace after looking through all this material as it brought a great deal back to the forefront of my mind and its something I really stopped practicing. I *KNOW* that if I stick on working with this stuff, that *I* will be okay and that's all that really matters. Having your feedback has been hugely comforting as well as it lends me a view into how she might be thinking and wanting from me.

[Daremo_06]

And of course there's bump in the road....

 

Just got an email, she said she cant do dinner tomorrow night because her mom bought her a ticket to a fundraiser for the firemen cause she thought she would be home alone. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but I have heard bits and pieces from mutual friends that one of the Lt fireman who work with her mom lives in the same building as her now and that she has mentioned some interest.

 

I asked her point blank last night if she was seeing anyone and she said no. She said she was just enjoying being single, ie not having to do anything for anyone else. Not out partying type of single. I am going to trust that, but its going to be hard.

 

So I replied back and said canx sat was fine. I also asked about fixing the microwave and when she wanted to do that. Lastly I said I wanted to do dinner next week then.

 

We still are on for sunday at the mutual friends house, but that wont be time spent alone where we might talk. So I am a little sad as I was hoping she might want to talk more about things.

 

Update to the update. She is off all next week so dinner would be good. She was gonna try to do the micro herself, but she would have to take it down herself which will mean she will need help doing that. Told her to text me later after dinner with her friend if she wants.

 

Yep, not gonna be an easy weekend. Gotta hunker down and not let the thoughts get the better of me.

 

Incidentally, I thought of asking her if her mom knows we are still spending time together or not.... but didn't. What do you think of that question?

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Rob,

 

That is a disappointment.

 

You still have a few fingers in the pie though. Sunday lunch at a friends house, dinner next week <make sure you get a firm day> don't let it slide and then the fixing of the microwave.

 

On a positive note, I know you may feel bad about cancellation but it is not as if she has blown you out of the water and backed off on dinner and the fixing of the microwave. If you fix her microwave she is bound to make you a coffee and you can have alittle natter then. Sunday is in the frame and then dinner next week.

 

I wouldn't ask her about whether her mum know about you both. Not unless it pops up in conversation and you can gentley ask her. She will twig that you have heard about the firemen.

 

If she has an interest in this firemen, why isn't she asking him to fix the microwave? It maybe nothing but alittle flirting or light interest. On the other hand, if she is seeing him it must be at the really early stages and at some point she is going to mention to you that she is thinking of starting dating or has just started dating. Then you will know where you stand. For the time being try to be attentive, caring and supportive. Try to be the guy she fell in love with during the first stages.

 

I am going to put on my wellies, go out in the fields and look for the dog now. Feel and look terrible. The crows will probably think I am the scarecrow.

 

Nothing happening on my side. No texts. No calls. That Italian agent has well and truly screwed things up for me. Not a chance in hell or him wanting me now.

 

Keep me posted. Be positive. Don't blow it.

[ChelleBelle]

Forgot to mention that I spent several hours on Al site and I did gain some comfort from it.

 

He sounds like a fabulous chap.

 

I like the expression 'vintage love' I run a vintage website and feel pretty vintage myself these days. Shabby Chic of course

[Daremo_06]

Yesturday.. in a word SUCKED.

 

kept feeling really guilty about all the things I did wrong. Now I know it takes two and that beating myself isnt healthy but it sure doesnt help you stop it sometimes.

 

Today I woke up feeling despair. Terrific! Another excellent emotion for me to be feeling. Going to the gym to work out, then suppose to meet up with her to go to a mutual friends party. Going to do some reading of Al's site before I go. Hopefully I will find some clarity and peace in those words cause I sure as hell am not finding it in my head.

[Daremo_06]

Wow.

 

Amazing day! Not back together with my gf, instead we have something that's even better. I have my best friend back. We went to the friends place and then went back to her place to talk. Talked for many hours, cried some, shared things we had not shared with each other before. I have a new found respect for her. She found a way to break up the relationship that wasnt working yet it has allowed us to become friends and work on our own issues and possibly some of our relationship issues.

 

Am I 100% happy? No, but given the things I learned tonight, I feel honored to know that she trusts me enough to open up the way she did tonight.

 

I am happy to have my friend back in my life.... I missed her so dearly....

 

[FeelingEmptyNow]

You have to ask yourself why you still want to be friends with her? Is it purely for friendship? For ex. are you comfortable talking to her about her new bf and how their sex life is?

 

Or, are you just hoping to insert yourself into her life as a friend so you can get back into a romantic relationship with her someday?

 

If the friendship is a front for a romantic relationship later on, be ready for a bumpy ride. She already told you she's not in love with you anymore...that is the one thing chicks don't say without really meaning it. I would be cautious if I were you.

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Rob,

 

You have had a emotional 24 hours. So you got your time with her which is great. What did she say? Did she say she still had feelings for you but just wanted to be friends? I know you are in love with her. Being her friend is going make you emotionally very vulnerable but at the same time leaves the door open. I know I couldn't be friends with my x as I love him far too much. I couldn't bear the agony of being close but not intimate with him.

 

If he wanted to be frriends with me, I would be very upset, I would feel betrayed. I am girl friend material and want to remain as such.

[Daremo_06]

Chelle,

 

Wish I had seen your thread earlier in the week. Would have helped me I think.

 

So I left off the story after a day where I felt like we connected at a level we had not really had before. Wellll I was a bit premature on where things were at and I should have known better. And its a bit wordy as its over a weeks worth of update.

 

She had the week off from work as we had planned to go on vacation together over the summer before the breakup. I had mentioned on Sunday i was taking a few days during the week also. There was also the issue of fixing the microwave. She had initially told me Sunday afternoon to come over Monday afternoon and I could fix it while she was teaching her class. Monday she texted me and wanted me to come over for dinner at around 7 instead. I said what about the microwave and she said hmm i really need that working, OK come over by 530 and you can fix it while i'm in class. I noticed the change in her thinking about this so I asked if she was OK with this. She replied back telling me she didn't want me to think she would be spending every waking moment this week with her and she wast sure if spending a lot of time around her was healthy for me given that I still have strong feelings for her.

 

Well this kinda took the wind out of my sails and while I fixed the microwave and we then ate after she got back, the stone wall was definitely back up. She invited me to have lunch with her the next day since I had it off, and I agreed. (foolish) Went to lunch with her and I tried to be more distant and talked about some of what I was thinking about. ie considering starting to look for work elsewhere, selling the house and moving on which was true, but not helpful in anyway. I dropped it though and lunch wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

 

Had a half day from work the next day and really struggled. Was determined to not reach out to her and I didn't but it sucked. Thursday back at work was not much better, couldn't focus on anything and then she texted me asking how I was doing, I said i was pretty good and just doing somethings at work. I asked how she was and she said she was good. I then said oh so your just bored then to which her reply was no, I just wanted to see how you were doing and if I was still going to our mutual friends on Sat night. I said I'm fine. A little lonely but I'll live. Yes, I was planning on going unless I get a hot date. Her reply was ok .

 

I did some writing that night trying to put some closure to things and thinking about some of the things I didn't like in the relationship. It was one of those letters you write but are never going to send. It helped me frame a lot of things in better perspective.

 

Friday I stayed busy working on the house and in the late afternoon she texted me saying that I still wanted her to help pick out paint colors that I could meet her at the hardware store as she had to get some keys made. I said I cant right now and then texted her a few min later that if she wanted to look at the paint sections and pick out what we had picked a few months back that would be good. She ended up not going, there was some small talk about her going out to eat with her old boss whom I really liked and then she said she would be by in the afternoon to help make the dish for dinner.

 

I stayed busy for the afternoon, went for a run and had a friend come over and we went out to eat and then met up with other friends. Got home a bit earlier than I wanted, so i did some more writing as I had been thinking more about things.

 

Sat morning I was very anxious as I felt like I was at a point where I couldn't keep pretending anymore. I knew/know the right move in this type of situation is to limit contact and I wanted to get my head to a point where I could make through the weekend (we were doing dinner with friends sat night and running a 5k Sunday morning) and then go no-contact for my part through the week. That was warring with me wanting to clearly define that I couldn't just be friends. Certainly not right now, and perhaps not ever. Spoke to a few friends to get more centered and felt I could make it through the afternoon/night without drawing the line in the sand. My other friend did point something out though about the things the ex and I had been doing together recently. What was the difference between how things were before she moved out and now other than she moved out and broke up with me. We were still doing stuff together so what was the point of the breakup?

 

Sat afternoon, the ex comes over. We end up going to a small wine tasting locally at our favorite little store because they had advertised Portuguese wines and that just so happened to be what our mutual friend was making for dinner. Get back to the house and start making our dish together. She made a few comments about how our mutual friends now seemed to be more my friends than her's. That led to more talking and I said that every single person i had talked to about us had said what a great couple we had seemed to be. She countered with the people she had talked to had said if she wasn't happy then she should move on. We talked about the previous weekend and my impression of Sunday and what I had thought was an amazing conversation where we both opened up. She didn't see it that way, and said she thought our best deep, intimate conversation happened when we were just friends

 

Then the convo moved deeper and I tried to validate that I had heard what she had issues with in our relationship. She then started to say something about just wanting to be friends. I did not want the convo to take that turn, but when it did, I told her that I couldn't just be friends, not now after having been in a relationship with her. I said it was just too hard. She started to get upset and made a move to pack up and leave and I said don't leave. She said I kept bringing this subject up and she didn't want to talk about it with us having to be at our friends in an hour. I said ok, and asked if we could talk about this in the near future. She agreed and we dropped it.

 

Kept working on dinner together and then SHE kept bringing up things on the edge of the topic. I don't recall what she said, but I responded at one point with "That's because I am fighting for something I really want" while looking directly at her.

 

We had a few other topics we chatted about, and when we were leaving my house, she mentioned that she had been thinking about my suggestion that she consider buying the condo she is renting if the price is right. She then proceeds to say "Don't read into this, but if we were to get back together, I am sure I could always rent it out". We talked a bit more on the way to our friends and then we had a good night where she kept putting her head on my shoulder at times and I was a complete gentleman. We left around 10 because we were running in the morning and she dropped me off and picked up her dog who had stayed at my place with my two dogs.

 

I thought about things a bit before going to bed and it seems like she was waiting to see what I am actually working on things for myself and around the house. I am also thinking that she wants to be sure I am going to make her a priority in my life.

 

Sunday, we went to our 5k, had a good time together. Had lunch afterwards and talked about many things like the trips we had been on together and talked about doing things like going ziplining and other fun stuff together. We finished up lunch and her friend that was suppose to be doing dinner with her had to change it to Monday night so she said I could have dinner with her tonight. We went back to her place and I went home to shower and change and while I was out I decided I was going to rent a couple movies for us to watch and also picked up a card for her. I got a card that was fairly platonic, had a bunny on the front and inside it said something like just letting you know I was thinking of you. I added on to that to say "and that I had a great weekend spending time with you" and signed it with just my name. Got back to her place and while she was cooking hide the card under her pillow.

 

During the 1st movie we watched (actually before dinner), she had her legs lying over me the entire time and I was giving her a foot massage for most of the movie. We had dinner, watched part of the 2nd one and then she started getting tired so we turned off the movie and said good night and I went home. About 20 minutes later I got a text about the card saying the card was very cute and thoughtful and thank you.

 

So that brings me up to today. I feel better that I was able to clearly state my boundary about the relationship and how I can not just be friends. Seeing her actions and hearing her words the rest of the weekend reflect that clearly she is not attempting to distance herself from me reinforces my thinking that she is watching and waiting.

 

This morning I got up very early, close to the same time she was getting up and before I was thinking clearly, I sent a text about wanting a cup of coffee (thinking about us always having coffee together in the am before work). She didn't respond, but she was probably in the shower by that point and then heading out the door as quick as she could because she said she had a ton of work to catch up on after having been out all week. I am going to let her contact me this week, and I know I will see her next week because she asked me if I wanted to go to a play with her Sat night that she had gotten free tickets too. Wonder if I should have passed on that?

 

Anyways, if you made it through that rambling diatribe, what are your thoughts?

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Rob,

 

Oh boy I don't know how you are keeping it together. I would be emotionally completely wasted. There are so many buttons she is pressing here and I kept thinking whilst I was reading your post, why is she doing this? Good on you for sticking to your guns and not going for the 'friends option'

 

My lap top's charger is broken, so I can only give you a quick acknowledgement. at the moment but I will get it fixed tomorrow. I just hope it is the fuse.

I am sending this post from the office but I will respond in full when I am on the lap top.

 

I am trying to remain strong over my X too but will post after I have responded to your post.

 

Catch up soon

[Daremo_06]

Hi Rob,

 

Oh boy I don't know how you are keeping it together. I would be emotionally completely wasted. There are so many buttons she is pressing here and I kept thinking whilst I was reading your post, why is she doing this? Good on you for sticking to your guns and not going for the 'friends option'

 

My lap top's charger is broken, so I can only give you a quick acknowledgement. at the moment but I will get it fixed tomorrow. I just hope it is the fuse.

I am sending this post from the office but I will respond in full when I am on the lap top.

 

I am trying to remain strong over my X too but will post after I have responded to your post.

 

Catch up soon

 

Love to hear more of your thoughts on the past week. Also my director, who is a woman a few years older than me, asked if i was planning on proposing. Her logic was that perhaps part of her leaving was her feeling that things were not going anywhere.

 

I kind of chuckled and said well actually I have been looking at rings.... I just want to try to figure out where I am at. Thinking of asking her something like "So how am I doing?" or something like that.

 

Thoughts?

 

Rob

[ChelleBelle]

Hi Rob,

 

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, only just got my new charger for the lap top sorted out. I printed out your last post as there was quite a lot of information to absorb and I wanted to think about things.

 

I am not sure what is going on with your X as she seems to be sending you mixed messages and I feel that she should just get on with it and tell you what she wants from you. There is some similarity though between how she is reacting and how I behaved with my X. (Who I love desperately) For instance, when you talked about her not 'being just a friend' and her backing away from you and wanting to leave. I reacted the same way with David, and the reason was, because I was feeling vulnerable and emotional about the situation and wanted to give in, but felt I couldn't as I was scared I would be hurt. I was reaching out to him but didn't know what to say or do. I could feel all this emotion coming to the surface and wanted to leave. Maybe she felt the same way.

 

I think the main issue is whether she 'loves you' or not. She keeps saying she wants to be your friend but is acting like she wants more. I still think she is in love with you but is trying to be rational and push your relationship into a friendship jar, as it is easier for her to handle and control.

 

The other point is, what are her expectations if you 'get back together'? or more importantly, what do you need to do to get her back with you?. None of this is clear.

 

So essentially, you need to determine: if she is in love with you and also what her expectations are of you. If she left because she felt there was no future, then this is your opportunity to make it clear that you do see a future with her only, and the break up has made you realise how important she was to you.

 

You need to seek an opportunity to talk about and get some feedback on your relationship. You need to ask her directly why she left and whether she saw you having a family together and settling down together. Her response to this question is critical (obviously you are not proposing, just getting some feedback) make sure you make it clear that you did see a future together, marriage and a family. This will probably be a difficult moment for her. Well, for both of you really, but unless you get to the nuts and bolts of why she's left, if she is in love with you, and what she expects from you, nothing is going to be resolved.

 

I still don't think NC is a good idea. If she categorically says, that she is not in love with you, and only wants to be friends (after you have had the above conversation., i.e where is this relationship going? do you love me? etc.,), then I am sorry you will have no option but to go into NC and just hope and pray she comes back to you. She knows that you do not want to be friends and at least you know you have done your best to win her back.

 

You will have to be very brave Rob because you may not get the result your heart wants to hear but unless you address the issue, you will remain emotionally tangled and a mess.

 

For my part, I think she is still in love with you. I don't think she is playing games but she certainly has been hurt and disappointed and has expectations from you which you have not forfilled (and you do not know what they are). She may be waiting for you to make the next move and to be honest, from a woman's point of view 'actions speaks louder than words'.

 

I hope that this is helpful. Keep me posted. I have the laptop working now so can respond from home. If you need any more advise let me know and I will see if I can help you.

[Daremo_06]

Thanks for the reply Chelle!

 

Here is a little more information for you. She has realized she has some significant issues from her past coming back to haunt her (abuse from her father). Her self esteem is suffering, she is in essence very confused about where she is at. She has realized she doesn't know how to be alone. She is 34 and I don't believe she really has ever been comfortable living alone without having a boyfriend. Now, is that something that needs to be fixed if she was in a committed relationship that was potentially going to be perm? I dont know, but its what she is talking about right now. We did talk about why she left a bit, and initially it was cause she felt it was toxic for her to stay in the house with me, and then after moving out she started realizing she has these other unresolved issues from her past.

 

I do think your right that she feels something for me, but she keeps pushing me away. She came over yesterday afternoon and we hung out watching tv, and talking about small things mostly. She has agreed to go to CA with me in November and she has plans to do other things with me. On some respects she is opening up to me more than she ever has, and on others, she is keeping me at arms length.

 

Backing up a bit.... Late on Friday night I texted her late to say hi and she replied back with a "HI! Out at Cityside" which is a club about a mile from my house and closer even to hers. I knew she was out with the woman from upstairs at her condo who I had briefly met, so I decided to go down there, she was rather drunk already but we danced and then she needed to go home as she was getting up early. I drove her home because she was in NO shape to drive. The friend had stayed back at the club and I went back because I didn't feel like going home. I ended up dancing with her till the place closed and then we talked a bit. She said she didnt want to get in the middle and she was my ex's friend, but she also thought I was a really great guy and that my ex's whole demeanor changed when I showed up at the club, ie she was happy to see me. She also told me to be come mysterious and go to minimal contact for a little while. Don't do little things with her, obviously something big comes along be there, but to canx or be busy when she reaches out to me. I had to say I was at a loss at how to be mysterious until I posted in 2nd chances forum and Jordjones had this to say...

 

I think that when you have dinner with her and/or speak with her in the future, you should not be so open about your feelings. If you ever get back together with your ex, it should be a brand new relationship, not a continuation of your old relationship. Let your old relationship die, and approach interactions with your ex more as you would on a first date - tease her, be fun, be cocky, be the guy she fell in love with long ago.

 

After a period of significant NC or LC, you must make her wonder if you have the same feelings for her. When women know exactly where your feelings stand, they are generally less attracted to you - this is true even in relationships on good terms. By not holding your emotions on your sleeves, she will be forced not wonder where your feelings are. This aura of mystery will work in your favor unequivocally.

 

Here is the whole thread.. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t299284/

 

After hearing him say that, I think I agree with him. This current relationship has to end and any future relationship has to be new.

 

So right now I am thinking I will play it low contact for the next few weeks, ideally till our trip to CA which is Nov 9th-12th. (We are going for wine country). I'll give her time to be alone and hopefully miss me. And if not, then well that can be the final end to our relationship and I'll move on.

 

Course, by 10pm tonight, I'll probably have changed my mind at least 4 times about this...