Dismissive attitude in educated conversations?

[LaChatteN0ire]

I've had an ongoing issue with my boyfriend's behavior when it comes to any educated conversation. At first I thought it was just me that he acted this way with, but now I know that he's like this with everyone.

 

Usually when we have an educated conversation about a subject in which my facts differ from his, he automatically dismisses what I have to say. Something along the lines of,"That's the stupidest thing I've heard. The truth is that...." and then he completes his statement with what he knows. He also says it in a louder tone of voice and throws up his hands (italian) and gets semi-dramatic. It doesn't really matter to me whether I am right or wrong or if he is right or wrong, just that he is so dismissive and rude when we have a conversation. Conversations like these usually make me feel like I AM stupid and makes me question myself even though I am almost certain that what I know is correct (and when I go to research afterwards, it is sometimes). When he used to do this, I would end up in tears. But now I just get frustrated and end the conversation so that it doesn't wind up in an argument vs. a discussion.

 

I really thought that maybe he was just this way with me for a long time, but when we had dinner the other night with his family, this attitude came out in all of its glory when he was talking to his sister about the vaccine/autism connection. He, of course, was rude and said,"That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.....you can Google it blah blah blah....it's the most stupid argument with no data behind it and the whole thing has been debunked for years." Kudos to his sister for calling him on his rudeness by asking him to treat her like a person and have a real meaningful conversation. This didn't result in a change in behavior during the rest of the conversation, but did result with her in tears. At a restaurant with the family. =/

 

I'm not sure if he just is oblivious to others' feelings, feels that he is all-knowing and is never wrong and cannot be wrong, or a combination of the two.

 

This behavior shows up in other ways and in other situations and I'm worried that I cannot take it anymore. He has said before that he cannot change who he is and that he will not change who he is, so I know that working on how he behaves will most likely not happen. He is not one for compromise in those areas.

 

As a result of this behavior and knowing that it's not just me that experiences it with him, I have been saddened that it will never change. I've been somewhat disconnected emotionally for the past week or so and it's not good for the relationship. I'm going to talk to him about it today.

 

Is this behavior something that will end up ruining the relationship? There are a few other areas in the relationship that have bothered me, and combined with this behavior, I am at a loss on whether or not it is in our best interests to continue the relationship. I love him more than anything, but I do not want to live this way forever and it's not healthy for either of us. Is it reasonable to ask him if he could work on the behavior or is this really something that is an aspect of a person that cannot be toned down or worked on voluntarily?

[iJester]

Break up with him for being condescending and disrespectful, or get over it and stop whining.

 

After three times or more, I just assume you like the behavior. Looks like he assumes the same.

 

It's reasonable to ask him to work on it, but it would be silly to expect a change. Cut your losses now. When someone is "always right", you're not going to convince them of anything other than their truth. I think your only chance is to break up with him, or at least initiate a break up over this and tell him you want to find someone who is more respectful of you(and others).

[LaChatteN0ire]

Maybe try shutting down entirely when he does that and say very calmly and matter of fact' date=' "let me know when you are done acting out and want to come back into adult discussion land."[/quote']

 

I've tried the shutting down only, but I have a feeling that if I were to say that, he might take it as me being condescending.

 

or at least initiate a break up over this and tell him you want to find someone who is more respectful of you(and others).

 

What's the difference between initiating a break up and just breaking up? Would it be more of giving him a chance to re-think his stand on correcting his behavior?

 

It's a tough decision to dump.. he has many great qualities but the negative qualities are just about even. If he would help us work on the relationship together, it might be weighted more heavily to the great side. It seems that what he wants is to just be whatever he is and do whatever he usually does without compromise because that's "who he is". I'm not sure if there is a way to get across to him that any relationship requires compromise and that it is something we have to work at together.

 

I don't "like" this behavior, sanskrit, but I am guilty of not standing up for myself or having a conversation about it.

[Queen Zenobia]

That's not "educated conversation" you're having with him. An educated person will listen to what the other person has to say, acknowledge the facts in it and disagree with the parts they disagree with; they won't dismiss the person's argument entirely. This just sounds like he's a condescending person with a bunch of preconceived notions that limit his intellectual interaction with the world. Now, if you said something like "kittens can fly" or "my friend runs a unicorn farm" then I can understand him being dismissive, but that doesn't sound like that's the case. What are some of the conversations about though?

[vsmini]

People who act like this are clueless and insecure. What happens when he's up against someone who really knows what they're talking about?

 

He's making you feel small and he knows it.

 

You cannot initiate a breakup unless you are prepared to actually break up. Otherwise it's just games and makes you look unstable.

 

First: You sit him down and tell him you need to talk. You don't say "if you don't change I'm going to break up with you." You tell him that you want it to stop because you feel disrespected and it needs to change because you're not tolerating it anymore. Any guy worth a lick would respect the hell out of you for standing up for yourself.

 

Think you can do this?

[Andy_K]

Print stuff off internet which backs you up undisputably.

Bring subject up again.

Show him evidence and make him say "I was wrong, you were right".

 

Tell him you'll do it again every time he's an arrogant and condescending ass.

 

Should this result in major fights (very likely), just dump him and save yourself the hassle.

[iJester]

Let me clarify what I meant, and point out that the first thing I said to do was break up with him outright.

 

I was not advising that you play games by initiating a breakup. I was advising that you sit him down and actually break up with him. I just figured that you're strong minded, but weak hearted, so you'll probably give him another chance when he whines, cries, and pleads for one. That will be your mistake and you will be right back here.

[LaChatteN0ire]

What are some of the conversations about though?

 

Most of the conversations are scientific or have scientific data. There are some topics that I am pretty solid on and I've read many research papers on subjects, so when a conversation should come up, I feel that I know the material well. If I don't know anything about the subject or have limited knowledge, I always just take the conversation as more informative and it never turns into an argument (because I have nothing to say/input).

 

Sometimes he will use this attitude when it's something really minor and it doesn't make sense to me at ALL why he would even act that way. In that case I only recently told him "nevermind, it's over, let's stop talking about it because the way that you're acting is making me uncomfortable." He did apologize, but only because it made me upset, not because of the way he acted.

 

Think you can do this?

 

Now that I can do. That is what I will do when I get home from work tonight.

 

 

I just figured that you're strong minded, but weak hearted, so you'll probably give him another chance when he whines, cries, and pleads for one. That will be your mistake and you will be right back here.

 

Yep, that's me. But I am realizing that life is short and I do not want to be unhappy or feel this way any longer. So I am going to do something about it, and if it really does mean breaking up, then I will do it. I'm not sure if I "should" be open to him changing if he says he will (and how much time to give for behavioral changes). But I am NOT open to him saying that it's "who he is" anymore.

[vsmini]

Glad to hear it - let us know if he gives you any BS.

[LaChatteN0ire]

So I talked to him. Basically he said that he doesn't know that he does it. I asked him if it was possible for him to think before he speaks, but he said that even if he does that, he won't recognize that he's being insulting or speaking down to me.

 

He said that he realized when he talked this way to his sister that it was bad, but that he was already talking one way and just kept going. Why didn't he just stop it there and apologize? It makes me wonder.

 

We had a more in depth talk last night about other issues that I've been having with him (hygiene, weight gain, negative attitude) and he said something along the lines of,"I don't have time to put effort into taking care of myself or putting effort in the relationship." I know that he's busy (full time student and is a student working in an engineering lab), but so am I (full time job and full time school). If I can find the time, why can't he? I feel that I am the only one that has been compromising in the relationship and he is not pulling his weight.

 

He also said that we haven't really been the same lately and that I haven't been affectionate (which is true because of the issues I've been having with him). So now, he feels like I am a roommate and he only should care for me as a roommate (despite the 5 years of our past relationship). Do people just drop others to statuses like that without informing their bf/gf so that the problem can be resolved?

 

He also said something along the lines of life being most about biology and procreating and that I am just a girl. I told him that I wasn't "just a girl", as we've been together a long time and we've developed feelings, memories, and a bond with each other. He responded by saying that that's also all biology and it left me utterly confused.

 

So all of this points to him being unhappy and wanting to be out of the relationship. So I told him, if you want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, great, but it will take work. So he gets up and goes to shuffle some things around like he's leaving. Then he comes back and gets back into bed (we were talking in bed) and doesn't say a word. This morning he left for school and didn't say a word. So is he leaving?

 

I'm not sure if he's leaving (breaking up) or not, but I'm just confused about his attitude. For someone to say that I'm just a girl and that he's only in it (or any relationship) because of biology is just weird. Is it him just trying to analyze it to block out feelings that he actually does have (rationalize the situation)? Ugghhh...

[vsmini]

Wow - talk about a guy that really knows how to communicate, values your concern and the entire relationship at hand....

 

What does this guy have to do for you to leave? Beat you?

 

So all of this points to him being unhappy and wanting to be out of the relationship. So I told him, if you want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, great, but it will take work. So he gets up and goes to shuffle some things around like he's leaving. Then he comes back and gets back into bed (we were talking in bed) and doesn't say a word. This morning he left for school and didn't say a word. So is he leaving?

 

 

So.....basically you told him you're fine with him coming or going and you will accept his behavior as is. Where are your standards honey? At this point I say you've created this monster. You're standing for way too much crap.

[Afishwithabike]

So I talked to him. Basically he said that he doesn't know that he does it. I asked him if it was possible for him to think before he speaks, but he said that even if he does that, he won't recognize that he's being insulting or speaking down to me.

 

He said that he realized when he talked this way to his sister that it was bad, but that he was already talking one way and just kept going. Why didn't he just stop it there and apologize? It makes me wonder.

 

We had a more in depth talk last night about other issues that I've been having with him (hygiene, weight gain, negative attitude) and he said something along the lines of,"I don't have time to put effort into taking care of myself or putting effort in the relationship." I know that he's busy (full time student and is a student working in an engineering lab), but so am I (full time job and full time school). If I can find the time, why can't he? I feel that I am the only one that has been compromising in the relationship and he is not pulling his weight.

 

He also said that we haven't really been the same lately and that I haven't been affectionate (which is true because of the issues I've been having with him). So now, he feels like I am a roommate and he only should care for me as a roommate (despite the 5 years of our past relationship). Do people just drop others to statuses like that without informing their bf/gf so that the problem can be resolved?

 

He also said something along the lines of life being most about biology and procreating and that I am just a girl. I told him that I wasn't "just a girl", as we've been together a long time and we've developed feelings, memories, and a bond with each other. He responded by saying that that's also all biology and it left me utterly confused.

 

So all of this points to him being unhappy and wanting to be out of the relationship. So I told him, if you want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, great, but it will take work. So he gets up and goes to shuffle some things around like he's leaving. Then he comes back and gets back into bed (we were talking in bed) and doesn't say a word. This morning he left for school and didn't say a word. So is he leaving?

 

I'm not sure if he's leaving (breaking up) or not, but I'm just confused about his attitude. For someone to say that I'm just a girl and that he's only in it (or any relationship) because of biology is just weird. Is it him just trying to analyze it to block out feelings that he actually does have (rationalize the situation)? Ugghhh...

 

Why are you staying with him?

 

He's telling you that you're not important to him. Look at the parts I bolded above in your post.

 

The best thing a person can do for another person is to show who they truly are.

 

Here he's showing you what he's really like. You should be happy he showed his true colors now before you're married, saddled with a big mortgage and two kids. Do you want to be with someone who thinks you're just a girl and suitable for breeding? Wow! Just wow!

 

Why does he get to decide if he's staying in the relationship? You can decide to leave this relationship. Take some power for yourself and be more assertive. You're being way too much of a doormat right now.

[iJester]

Do you not see that he literally did the exact same thing that you've been complaining about?

 

Why are you wasting our time with this? I really thought you were going to go through with it, but sadly, the final words in my first post have come true.

[Knittress]

Look, do YOU believe that you're an intelligent person who has value and deserves to be happy? He doesn't seem to think so, and neither do you by your barely-questioning acceptance of his behavior/attitude. If you had any self-respect, you'd be laughing so hard at his antics you could barely find the breath to break up with him.

[spiderowl]

It sounds like you've realised how arrogant and rude his behaviour is and you don't like what you see. You are wondering if you can live with it. Why should he be allowed to dismiss your opinions? It's not about who is clever or all-knowing ior the subject area, it's about basic respect for another person. Don't bother getting involved in an academic discussion about who is right or wrong, his attitude towards you is crap. I'm older and I've learned that if you don't pull people up when they treat you badly, they think it's OK to carry on. If they don't listen or learn, then I've learned to dump them. You have been putting up with it because it made you feel inferior but his sister wouldn't. When you have tackled your boyfriend about his behaviour, his response hasn't exactly been any better. It is just as arrogant to say 'I can't change my behaviour so take it or leave it' as, once again, he is being dismissive - your thoughts and feelings don't matter, you revolve around him.

 

It's obviously up to you what you do about this and what you are prepared to let him get away with. You may choose not to say anything and it's your relationship and you are the one who has to live with it, so no-one else can preach. But I think that his 'take me or leave me' attitude can be challenged. It depends whether his rudeness is fundamentally him or not. Or, it may be that he behaves like that because he can get away with it. I suspect that if someone else were to challenge him and say 'you don't have to be so rude and dismissive to others, you need to change that', he'd have to think about it. In my experience, bad behaviour doesn't get any better if the person is not pulled up on it. He needs to show you more respect and you need to realise you deserve respect. You may not think it now but if he won't treat you with the respect you deserve, there will be someone out there who will. You might have to wait a while for them, but someone will think you very worthy indeed.

Edited June 16, 2011 by spiderowl

[Holt Driver]

His attitude has the potential to destroy the relationship, if not now then in the future. What happens if you were to get married and go house hunting together and you attempt to express your desires and preferences? What will happen with financial conversations? What will happen when you make child-rearing decisions? Can you accept being dismissed so quickly?

 

Like you said, it's not about your being right or wrong. It's about him showing you and his friends and family respect. That he claims he won't change is a very bad sign.

 

I learned this from my failed marriage: "The person you're dating is the person you'll be married to." In other words, if he's like this now, there's a very good chance he'll be like this 2, 5, 15 years from now. As much as we try, we humans have a hard time changing.

 

Don't let him make he decision. Be ready to make it yourself.

[LaChatteN0ire]

So last night we talked a lot about what was best for the both of us and what was best for me. He cried a lot, which I've never seen him do, but it was nice to hear/see that he actually did care and wasn't as stone cold as he makes himself out to be. He knows now that it is his fault for the relationship getting to this point. At one point he said,"I am not perfect for you. But you were perfect for me until I messed it all up. That's the worst part about this." But he has to learn, right?

 

I told him that whether we take a long break or just break up, he needs to leave. We need time apart and I need time to focus on myself and what I want. We settled on taking a long break with no contact for awhile. Is this the best thing to do? I feel that he COULD be a great partner if he would try (as much as he did when we were first together) and if he would finally learn to respect and value me as I deserve. I don't think any of this could happen without us being apart.

 

I think what struck me most about this whole thing is that NOW he has feelings and NOW he shows emotion. Now he's balling and saying that he doesn't want to regret this for the rest of his life.

 

He's moving out today.

[thatone]

how old are the two of you?

 

people can/do grow out of these tendencies. it's common with people in their 20s (due to them thinking they've "grown up" the first time they're away from their parents and living on their own/supporting themselves). they find out later that they really don't know sh*t and still have growing up to do (how's that for condescending, hah!)

 

tact or lack thereof can fall under social grace, it's not necessarily a trait that people are unable to learn.

 

i think you're right for explaining to him why it's not acceptable and demonstrating a consequence for his actions, though. if you're still interested in him, give him a few weeks to think about it, then start over with a casual couple of dates and see if he has learned his lesson. and on those couple of dates, go to higher end restaurants, more formal gatherings, etc, where he will be forced to demonstrate whether he has in fact learned anything or not. then see where it goes from there.

Edited June 17, 2011 by thatone

[Afishwithabike]

So last night we talked a lot about what was best for the both of us and what was best for me. He cried a lot, which I've never seen him do, but it was nice to hear/see that he actually did care and wasn't as stone cold as he makes himself out to be. He knows now that it is his fault for the relationship getting to this point. At one point he said,"I am not perfect for you. But you were perfect for me until I messed it all up. That's the worst part about this." But he has to learn, right?

 

I told him that whether we take a long break or just break up, he needs to leave. We need time apart and I need time to focus on myself and what I want. We settled on taking a long break with no contact for awhile. Is this the best thing to do? I feel that he COULD be a great partner if he would try (as much as he did when we were first together) and if he would finally learn to respect and value me as I deserve. I don't think any of this could happen without us being apart.

 

I think what struck me most about this whole thing is that NOW he has feelings and NOW he shows emotion. Now he's balling and saying that he doesn't want to regret this for the rest of his life.

 

He's moving out today.

 

Good for you! It couldn't have been easy, but I think you did the right thing. A long break will give you perspective and him a chance to hopefully grow and improve his interpersonal skills.

 

He is showing feelings now because he didn't think before there would be consequences to his actions. He thought he could get away with it. He might have thought that subconsciously.

 

Before you two resume a relationship again at some distant future, make sure he has shown through actions that he has changed. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. It's easy to say "I'm sorry, I won't do it again." Also don't approach him for a second chance. He should come to you.

[EyeAlone]

So last night we talked a lot about what was best for the both of us and what was best for me. He cried a lot, which I've never seen him do, but it was nice to hear/see that he actually did care and wasn't as stone cold as he makes himself out to be. He knows now that it is his fault for the relationship getting to this point. At one point he said,"I am not perfect for you. But you were perfect for me until I messed it all up. That's the worst part about this." But he has to learn, right?

 

I told him that whether we take a long break or just break up, he needs to leave. We need time apart and I need time to focus on myself and what I want. We settled on taking a long break with no contact for awhile. Is this the best thing to do? I feel that he COULD be a great partner if he would try (as much as he did when we were first together) and if he would finally learn to respect and value me as I deserve. I don't think any of this could happen without us being apart.

 

I think what struck me most about this whole thing is that NOW he has feelings and NOW he shows emotion. Now he's balling and saying that he doesn't want to regret this for the rest of his life.

 

He's moving out today.

Are you dating my ex? Same sh*t happened. He stopped respecting me and became very condescending and narcissistic. Once I gave him the ol' heave-ho, he started to cry and express all these regrets.

 

Some people need to learn lessons the hard way. He probably did not expect you to come down with the hammer since he's been getting his way recently in the relationship. You did the right thing and as hard as it may be for you, I applaud your decision. If he's not going to respect you, the least you can do is respect yourself.

 

Going NC for a while is probably the best thing you can do. But in my opinion, this is not going to be something that he can "fix" overnight. Who knows, he may be on his best behavior for the few weeks when he's on "probation." Then once you get back together, he falls back into his old routine. I've seen this happen all too many times. He may not be one of those guys, but I just wanted to caution you just in case. Some people need lots and lots of time if they're going to change at all.

[LaChatteN0ire]

thatone - We are both 25. I believe that he still has a lot of growing up to do... in a lot of ways he is kind of a manchild and I need a MAN. I think that this does have a lot to do with age, which is why I am hopeful that he can grow up and we can start over (if over time I am still interested in giving it a go). I like your suggestion of giving it a few weeks (I believe I will give several). I will also take Afishwithabike's advice and let him approach me.

 

Afishwithabike - It was almost impossible for me to do. Some of the other replies point to me being weak, and I am. But I am also the kind of person who likes to prove people wrong and to show that I CAN do it. So in that way, the naysayers have helped me bite the bullet and go through with it (for the better). I will wait until he shows that he has changed, because I don't want to waste more years of my life wishing for something that will never come to be.

 

EyeAlone - I don't think he expected it at all and it has hit him very, very hard. It is clear from reading other posts that people do not change and those who quickly return to their exes after a short period of time continue having the same issues. I think maybe it is more realistic to give it a couple of months of NC and very slowly test the waters. Very slowly meaning towards the end of the year - and this is only if he does show that he's grown up and he has changed. If I still see the same old problem, then I can't put myself in that position. I only live once.

 

I am going to help pack his things after work this evening and we will have a goodbye before he leaves. I am more deeply saddened that his family will be heartbroken that we are no longer together (both of our families are now very close). His parents were already planning for me to join them for father's day dinner and I am kind of sad that they will not be able to enjoy the dinner as they usually would. I always attend their celebratory dinners (birthdays, holidays, etc.), so I know it will be awkward for them. Not being able to spend time with his family will hurt me the most.

[thatone]

look on the bright side, you are doing him a favor. he has to grow up. if anything, you're more noble for having told him about this and having the backbone to go through with leaving him for it. he will wind up being a better person, or at the very least realize that he is not as good a person as he thought he was, by virtue of going through all this.

[LaChatteN0ire]

It's been almost two weeks since I went NC on a break and I've had a lot of time to think. I had a day of anxiety where I was more concerned about him, but I did realize that I was over-analyzing. I've decided that it is indeed best for the both of us to break up. We both need to be in a healthy relationship where our needs are met and our interests are the same, but that relationship isn't the one that we're in.

 

When I think about this, though, I am deeply saddened that I will be losing a great friend and that I will be losing his wonderful family. I am also very hurt that this will hurt him so deeply. I know that I must be strong and go through with it to improve each of our lives.

 

The only problem at the moment is finding a suggested "neutral" place to talk to him. I know that he will be very sad and emotional (as will I) and it isn't recommended to talk at one of our houses (right?). But the park is not an option since it is BURNING hot outside (Texas). Should I just talk with him at my house (some of his belongings are still there) or should I still look for a neutral place? I'm really dreading telling him this news after we haven't spoken in 2 weeks. I feel like he will be so happy to hear my voice and to see me, only to have me tell him that it isn't going to work out after all.

[EyeAlone]

I'm glad that you reached a conclusion that you're comfortable with. I know that it especially hurts when you consider yourself losing a "great friend," but at the same time, you need to look at all the stuff and emotional turmoil he's caused for you. Great friends don't do that. But I do understand where you're coming from.

 

To answer your question, I vote that you do it at his place. I can tell you firsthand that it sucks when one goes to their SO's place, receives the bad news, and has to travel back to their own place. I know you have some of his stuff at your place but that can be arranged to be taken back to him. Can you bring the items with you when you see him? Also if you're at his place, you won't have to worry about being in public in case there's an "emotional scene." But the next best option would be a neutral place. I know it's hot outside so if you wanted to do it at a park, perhaps do this early in the morning?

 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes

[grkBoy]

He just sounds arrogant.