The real first day NC

[reallyconfused2542]

well here it is.the first day of NC. her number has been deleted from my phone and im sitting here wanting to txt her more than anything. i know that i wont though. instead ill just write some long diatribe on here. sorry.

i think i came to the realization last night that maybe she had come to some level of self actualization that i was to close minded to things and didn't believe in her. that can really affect someones mental state i think. the person you love is supposed to believe in you and maybe she just felt like i didn't. i really did and told her so but i guess it wasn't enough.

where she was living a month or so before we broke up was back home with her parents in a really crummy environment. she was going crazy there. we had been fighting prob every week but also in those weeks were levels of intense enjoyment. i know she has bpd but maybe something else as well. we had quite a few episodes of her cutting herself and a few suicide threats that were made over the course of the last year. she had said it was partly due to the fact that i wouldn't tell her that i loved her or saw a future together. thats a lot to put on someone. i mean whatever i did or didn't say it wasn't my fault that she decided to pick up the blade and saw into herself. for some reason though i still feel guilty now that its over for doing it.

so that goes on for a while and then she meets up with a friend that has his own place with a bunch of extra room and a couch to sleep on. she moves in there and her mood increases back to where she was before when things were great. at this point though i feel like she's pulling away from me, not including me at all in her life. asking how her day went was like pulling teeth. she would really never ask how mine was. i asked her numerous times if she was dating him or wanted to be with him because i was really starting to feel left out. she swore no and still i guess i believe her. we were pretty much on the same page as far as cheating goes. at least i thought.

the breakup happens and now im left feeling stupid that i should have seen it coming the whole time.

she said that i didn't try hard enough to show her that i loved her or wanted to be with her and that she just wants to focus on herself for now. not sure if thats all BS but i really have no choice no in the matter. i mean to tell someone that the didn't try hard enough or that i took her for granted when she couldn't even get me a xmas or valentines day card that shows she really has no appreciation for me or couldn't even be bothered to take 10 minutes out of her day to get me something. i don't have a lot of money (back to being a college student) but what i did have i would try and do things with her that we enjoyed. never really a thank you or i appreciate you getting drinks for me. usually nothing.

now the new guy will have to put up with this i should be grateful that this is over. if its only been a year and i feel this way what would have happened after 5 or 10 years. i would have been a broken man whose now having to support her and any kids that we had. going through life feeling unappreciated by the person thats supposed to love me the most. for some reason though i cant get over the fact that its over

the whole relationship was filled with intense highs and lows. im left feeling like all there were was these highs and great time when in fact there were plenty of time when i wanted it to be over. maybe the hardest part is thinking that she's with this guy already and moved on that fast. i think thats the part that gets me the most. is the thought that someone else is with her. even though she swore up and down that they were just friends. it is possible for guys and girls to just be friends. maybe so but he is definitely in the category of emotion friend. and plus i don't know that a guy would be that stupid to bring the girl that he's dating to live with him after only a few weeks

i think that in the end she just reached a different level of thinking that i had. i wasn't always the most fun guy to be around but sometimes i just wanted to be alone with her and hold onto her. we didn't always have to go out and i didn't have money for that. she also is of the mentality that she can do anything that her mind accomplishes, or at least that where she trying to get. thats where im trying to be and maybe she sensed that i wasn't there yet and that my negativity and realism was bringing her down.

one of the things that so hard for me is that if that was my only problem and i needed to be more considerate to her and tell her that i loved her and make her feel loved more often then how can she just leave and not be willing to let me show her that i can change. i think overall i was pretty good to her. the boyfriends before were either emotionally or physically abuse to her sometimes. i never laid a hand on her or called her names in arguments, always treated her with respect. we were compatible, liked a lot of the same things, enjoyed a lot of the same things. so why wont she give me another chance to show her that i would be able to change for her?

i just don't get how someone who can have all these feelings toward me saying that she loved me from the moment she saw me and that we were meant to be together that now there all gone or compartmentalized somewhere else. how does that work?or how is that possible?

she says that she wants time to work on herself and to just do her. not have to worry about arguing or checking her phone to see if ive texted her and worry that im going to be upset that she's taking all day to get back to me (which i don't get cause when im with her her phone is always by her side but when i txt she would most times take hours to get back to me). i really want to believe in her and have faith that that is what it is and not that she wants to be with that new guy. but lets see how long he stays around and putts up with the self mutilation or suicide talks. its going to happen again. that kind of thinking doesn't just disappear either and i was willing to accept her for it all. maybe crazy on my part

in the meantime im left on day one wanting like crazy to txt her but instead ill just keep writing on here until the feelings pass. i kind of cam to the realization last night that i have to grab my life by the horns and take control and go and get what i want out of life. just tough to change overnight. maybe i should start by eating something since all ive had is a few pieces of ham in the last two days. i also need to get back to studying since finals are in two weeks. i want to finish strong, just that i have no motivation to do anything but sit in bed and mope. strange how the mind works

[disbelieve]

Were you dating the same girl I was? This is identical to what I am going through. its actually kind of creepy to even read it. Ive been NC for like 4 days now and she has started to text and it is driving her mad. It has helped me a little to know and think of all the negatives about the person and trust me they were alot. I wish you the best my friend and keep reading and posting it has helped me alot

[reallyconfused2542]

what are you doing when she txts you? even after i wrote that i still have these insane urges to txt her and if she txts me i don't know what ill do. i really feel like she's going to be ok without me and that really kills me. i don't know if im just being a negative person with no faith in things working out or a realist. guess the only reality for now is that were broken up and i have to get my head in the right place

[reallyconfused2542]

its kind of tough cause the guys place that she living at now, she doesn't pay anything but she keeps it clean, cooks and does all the housewife stuff so all he see are the good things. he's also a little more zen ish, kind of like what she's trying to be. also he's a self starter, the same as what she is trying to be. so it makes me really insecure that they have these thing in common, but he doesn't know the sides of her like i do.

at the beginning we were at that stage to. we used to sit tin the car parked for hours talking about things an contemplating life. the connection we had was insane. hard to believe im going to find that again.

[disbelieve]

I just dont answer at all. It hurts me like crazy, you have no idea. Its rough but you cant and YOU MUST STOP thinking about her and the other guy. It wont help you at all. It will only bring you down more and it wont help you get over it. Think of all the negatives man and move on.

[reallyconfused2542]

i think the hardest part about and why at this point im having so much difficulty is that i know that i could be what she wanted. i could be that loving guy that showed her emotion and made her feel special. i feel like i should be able to get one chance to fix things and make them right between us if everything that she said about us being together was true. i just don't understand why she wont

[disbelieve]

to be honest she is just playing the blame game and trying to manipulate you into feeling guilty.

[reallyconfused2542]

haha , its working for the moment...how does she not feel guilty about anything. she was surprised when after she told me that she felt taken for granted that i also felt the same way about things. how could she be so supposedly self aware yet oblivious to how she treated me? or it makes me wonder if i was asking to much to have a thank you for things that i did

[disbelieve]

dude iam with you on that last one. I never got a thank you, or anything and I got engaged and am having a baby with this woman...i am feeling like crap. She stills txts me and asks for forgiveness and what not but I dont believe her anymore. I am so wounded and hurt about all the things she did, its worth it. The hard part about it is that now I have a child on the way and I am going to have to see her eventually but I am keeping my distance from her for now.

[reallyconfused2542]

when did she start asking you to forgive her, was it after you started the NC?

[disbelieve]

yeh like two days after. toughest days of my life, even after all she did. Just think with your head on this one and not emotions. If you go by emotions you will fall back on it all. I myself am trying hard to not fall back into this. I ll say it again thinking of all the negatives is slowly helping me heal.

[reallyconfused2542]

man i hope that i have your strength if and when that happens. i just wonder if she's forgotten about me already since even towards the end we weren't talking that much or seeing each other that often so maybe her healing process had a good jump on mine. again though i dont know even with all the friends and support in the world how someone could just drop all the intense feelings that she had for me

[disbelieve]

man i hope that i have your strength if and when that happens. i just wonder if she's forgotten about me already since even towards the end we weren't talking that much or seeing each other that often so maybe her healing process had a good jump on mine. again though i dont know even with all the friends and support in the world how someone could just drop all the intense feelings that she had for me

I ask myself the same question...she had the same situation were she had a headstart.

[reallyconfused2542]

why do you think she's contacting you again though, you think its cause your going to have a baby together and now she's regretting? i don't have that same kind of attachment with mine so i feel like she would have no reason to contact me again when really right now that is all that i want

[disbelieve]

I dont know could be. Maybe she is just feeling guilty for what she did. Go and read my story and youll see what happened. "Engaged but broke it off"

[reallyconfused2542]

she would always also say sorry to me when she did something that upset me but would never do anything to try and fix it.. trying to get her to be considerate of me was impossible, but if she wanted to see me i had to be there right away. i asked over and over again but it felt like nothing ever changed. i don't get how someone can just look at others and find all these faults but cant look inside and see that she has them as well. maybe its just easier for her to avoid everything all together and move on to the next one and enjoy the fun for now. these are all issues that she's going to have to deal with in any relationship that she's in.

[reallyconfused2542]

yea i read it, ive been on here 24/7 reading stuff,guess its some kind of therapy for me to get everything out since i really have no one else that'll listen except my shrink for an hour once a week and that day already happened

[disbelieve]

I dont know if you are religious or not but God has helped me get thru this. Ive been focusing and getting closer to him since this event. This site has helped me cope with all this but he has placed a tranquility in my heart.

[reallyconfused2542]

its really pretty pathetic but i find myself reading the posts and when seeing that the exes contact again or theres reconciliation i find myself hoping for it to happen to me. i know everything that i need to do but for some reason i cant get my brain to click and start doing them.

[Downtown]

i think the hardest part about and why at this point im having so much difficulty is that i know that i could be what she wanted.

No, RC, that is impossible. You can never be what she wants. As an unstable person, she doesn't even know what she wants. Moreover, the only time she was unambivalent about wanting YOU was during the first six months -- at which time she was so infatuated that she was idealizing you into something you never were. The sad reality is that, because BPD produces thought distortions, she was never able to clearly see you for who you actually are. Instead, she would flip from idealizing you (i.e., splitting you white) to devaluing you (i.e., splitting you black). With a BPDer, there is no middle ground between the extremes because she is extremely uncomfortable with gray areas and ambiguities.

 

If you think for a minute that your exGF was in love with pure-and-simple, unadulterated YOU, then why did you have to spend all that time -- following the six month honeymoon -- walking on eggshells to avoid offending her? It took me 15 years to learn that it is impossible to make an unhappy person feel happy. They have to learn to do that for themselves.

i could be that loving guy that showed her emotion and made her feel special.

Showing her your love and making her feel special is not the blessing and cure-all you think it is. To a BPDer, showing love is a two edge sword that is painful to her. As I explained in Chris's and Inigo's threads, a BPDer is extremely fearful of engulfment and abandonment. This means that, as you become intimate to show your love, she will hurt because the intimacy makes her feel suffocated, like she is no longer a whole person. It is very frightening. Yet, as you pull back to give her breathing space, she will become fearful that you are abandoning her. Hence, regardless of whether you move close or pull away, you will hurt her. This is why it is folly to try to heal a BPDer by loving her and "making her feel special." It is the equivalent of trying to heal a burn patient by hugging her.

 

I know, I know, you're thinking that you can find some midpoint solution -- some Goldilocks position -- somewhere between "too close" and "too far away." Well, after trying to do that for 15 years with my exW, I can tell you that the Goldilocks position does not exist. Or, if it does, it is a continually moving knife blade of a position that you will never find.

i feel like i should be able to get one chance to fix things and make them right between us if everything that she said about us being together was true.

Much of what she told you likely is true, in the sense that she really believed it when she said it. This does not mean it reflected reality, however. Because BPD froze her emotional development at the level of a four year old, she has little experience in intellectually challenging her intense feelings. To her, the intense feelings constitute reality. In addition, she will project all of her bad feelings about herself onto you. Because projection works at the subconscious level, her conscious mind will believe that the projections are valid.

 

This means that a BPDer will blame you for all sorts of misfortunes that you did not create -- and thus cannot possibly correct. Moreover, even if you did correct some mistake you actually made, it would not matter. Because a BPDer is unstable, it is impossible to build up a store of good will you can later draw on during difficult times. There is no lasting store of good will. Instead, all the sacrifices you made only created sand castles beside the ocean. They were all washed away by the next emotional tide passing through her mind. This is why, with a BPDer, it is always "what have you done for me lately?"

How does she not feel guilty about the way she treated me?

As I said, BPD distorts her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. Moreover, when she is offended by some minor thing you say or do, she is unable to think of you as "an essentially good guy who sometimes does wrong things." For BPDers, such gray areas are extremely uncomfortable (because they never developed a strong self concept that integrated both the good and bad aspects of their own personalities).

 

You therefore are mistakenly perceived as being "all bad" and are treated accordingly. This is why meanness and vindictiveness are a hallmark of BPDers. It's not that they are intrinsically mean people but, rather, that they are unstable people who alternate between being caring and generous and being mean and vindictive -- depending on which way (black or white) they are "splitting" you at the moment.

[whatdoido1717]

Downtown, if you could say one final thing, right now, to your BPD ex, what would it be? Just curious

 

(Can be as long or as short as you feel).

Edited April 29, 2011 by whatdoido1717

[whatdoido1717]

Well, I am failing at not getting involved, ha, oh well.

 

One thing that I found interesting but also lends to how illogical and child like their mind functions is the connection between "Painting an Ex Black" and "Mirroring the Ex and Their Absorbing of Parts of The Ex."

 

When I was devouring information about BPD I read somewhere that the BPD will almost, as Downtown more eloquently put it earlier, absorb their partner. That is part of why we feel we have found our perfect match (i.e. she was supposedly my "soul mate," were always so "comfortable around each other" and we "made an amazing team") is because they take part of our identity and add it to their own self-identity.

 

What is interesting and almost paradoxical is that after we are no longer their knight in shining armor and have become the punching bag for them to project their anger on, some of those things they absorbed from their time with us maintain and become part of their identity moving forward.

 

It is almost hard to wrap one's head around. I struggled for a long time. For example, she wasn't a Blazers fan before we met. We went to some games, shared that bond, and the last time I checked her Facebook, which was after we broke up, she only then added the "Portland Trail Blazers" as her "Favorite Team." Another small example would be her taste in music resulting from her relationship with her ex-fiancé. I know those are small examples, but I hope what I am trying to say makes sense.

 

If you get caught up trying to understand things like that, you will also go insane. It is so hard to let go, as the "right thing to do" at first seems to be figure out the best way to help. How are you, or anyone going to break through that insanity and nonsensical thought process if that person isn't willing or ready to work on it themselves.

 

That is why I say trying to understand the disorder will only lead to further sorrow as you begin to learn how much less you most likely meant to you, how much she doesn't miss you but despises you while you are hurting, and that the red flags you let pass were all true and staring you in the face the entire time. The pain of letting go is rough.

 

Speaking of the Blazers, time to go to Game Six! I could really use a win to keep me up and happy, haha!

 

(When I was saying "you" above I was sometimes talking about myself, all of us, etc. Again, sorry for the poor grammar)

[reallyconfused2542]

its hard to wrap my head around those thing being true where you said that in reality she didn't love you. she was so sure of it.

 

i place a lot of the blame now on me not doing the right thing with her. she was with someone before me for two years and she said that she got a ton of affection and i loves yous and that what she wanted form me. at the same time he treated her like total ****, sometimes physically abusing her. and what blows my mind is that she knew it was wrong but didn't seem to phased by it. i told her that a man no matter what the circumstances are should never ever touch a woman and she was like well it was really the both of us. the fact that she still checked in on him every once and a while afterwards blew me away.

she would always say during her breakdowns that "no one will ever love me, my mom and the rest of my(her) family told me that no one will ever love me, why don't you love me?" she would have these crazy breakdowns and it left me not knowing what to do. i stayed at her place with her a few nights, which i never did, because i though i was looking into the eyes of a dead person. she had already cut herself and then was saying that she didn't want to live without me. then after everything would calm down we would have crazy intense sex and the next day nothing would be said about it.

how was i supposed to know whether or not i wanted to spend the rest of my life with someone who was exhibiting that kind of behavior? i had never experienced anything like it. on top of things as im learning from reading the book attached that i have a avoident personality and have a really hard time telling a girl i love her. i went through that with my ex before her.

i asked her over and over to get help and granted she didn't have insurance but then when she finally did she never went. now she's on this path of enlightenment where she's doing all types of meditation and yoga(supposedly, since im no there to see it) and thats helping her to become better. i think everything got better for her when she moved out of her house and in with her friend. i don't think she ever cheated on me with him, i think shed be to scared to but she definitely found some bond with him. and the white knight theory really rings true. once she moved out and in there her mood picked up and she was back to being happy again. then at the same time very distant with me. she says that i gave up but how was i supposed to just understand that now she was in a better place. i had been dealing with an extremely depressed girl for a while and now i was just supposed to understand that she was alright again?

another thing was that im a student, not much time for things. wed go out occasionally but most of the time shed come over and wed watch a movie, hang out, have sex then id take her home in the morning. she would constantly tell me that she felt used and that all i do is bang her than get her out of there. i found it hard to believe cause on the weekends we still did stuff and i just thought she enjoyed spending time with me, that we didn't have to be doing something all the time. and probably half the time she initiate the sex and tried to say that it was always me who did.i never got that

one other thing was id tell her that i was going away with a guy friend for the weekend skiing early in the week. come fri when i was going to leave she would freak out saying that i never told her and that im such an ******* because i didn't tell her and i never ask her to do anything or take her anywhere. when in fact whenever i did go out it was only with her. i might have gone out 1 or 2 by myself to spend a night with my relatives and visit with them. i could never do anything right with her.

im just giving these examples not to complain but to give you a better idea of what i was dealing with and maybe you can tell me if its just classic BPD. im guessing your 15 yrs. experience gives you an amazing insight into what its all about.

is this thing worth salvaging? is it a total lost cause? i mean i see everything on here and it seems that if i were to tell her about all the symptoms and issues associated with it that maybe we could work through things. she is an amazing girl and when thing were good they were great. and its not like she doesn't know she has BPD she told me herself and said that she had taken lithium for a little while(ive seen what that crap does to people, turns them into the walking dead). i am just being naive in thinking because she told me all those heartfelt things that during this NC she's going to contact me or that if i contact her shell respond to talking?

i dont know if you read my other posts but her background was crazy

and also whatdo please feel free to get involved. i value all opinions and perspectives.

[Downtown]

Downtown, if you could say one final thing, right now, to your BPD ex, what would it be?.

Zach (aka, WhatDoIDo), that's easy to answer. I would say nothing at all. Indeed, that is what I do. I went NC about two and a half years ago. After our separation and divorce, my exW kept calling me every two weeks for 8 months and I spoke with her briefly but never called her. Finally, she called and complained that I never called and asked whether I thought we could ever be friends again.

 

In response, I asked her whether she still thought -- as she had thought throughout our 15 years together -- that I was lying to her every week and was a violent man. She replied, "Oh, yes, I still believe that." I then said, "Well, none of my family members believe that. None of my friends believe that. Indeed, my worst enemy doesn't even believe it. But you believe it because you're incapable of trusting. This means we can never be friends because friendship must be based on trust."

 

So I went NC for two years until we both flew (separately) to the midwest for our grandson's wedding. Because I still love her and wish her no ill will, I sat with her during the wedding and I acted "friendly." Two weeks later she called and asked again if we could be friends. Again, I said it was impossible because she is unable to trust me. I made it clear I felt affection for her but did not want to speak with her unless there was an emergency regarding my step kids (all adults).

 

So, to answer your question about what "final thing" I would say to her, the answer is that it does not matter one bit what I say. She is incapable of believing anything coming out of my mouth (otherwise, I would have been able to help her). Likewise, RC's exGF and your exGF (Erin) likely are incapable of really trusting what you two guys say. That's why it is impossible for you to really help them. Moreover, no matter what "last impression" you make on Erin, that impression is no more "lasting" than a sand castle built beside the sea. It is washed away by the next emotional tide sweeping through her mind.

 

Incidentally, Zach, I just finished reading through the 156 posts in your amazing thread about you and Erin. Whew!!! That whole story is very touching but the only thing bringing tears to my eyes was the incident where your best friend burst into tears after taking you outside for a talk. What a wonderful, loyal friend! In your whole lifetime, you will be extraordinarily lucky if you manage to have just one more friend like him. I believe that, twenty years from now, you will look back and realize he had a far more beneficial impact on your life than a dozen Erins. The other moving incident (which brought me close to tears) was your finding the note in your wallet on your trip with your B to San Diego (my favorite city). If I have time tomorrow, I intend to post something in your thread.

[Downtown]

its hard to wrap my head around those thing being true where you said that in reality she didn't love you. she was so sure of it.

RC, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in explaining that. I actually believe your exGF did love you but in a very immature, stunted way. Because her emotional development was likely frozen at the level of a four year old, she probably loves you in the way that a young child is capable of loving -- where "I love you" largely means "I desperately need you to love ME." Due to her immaturity and her inability to love herself, she is able to love you only in an impaired, immature way. Part of the impairment is her inability to see you very clearly for what you are. As I mentioned, this is caused by her intense emotions which are nearly always causing her to either idealize you or devalue you.

 

Moreover, if you behave like your old self (instead of walking on eggshells), you will trigger her two great fears so often that she would have walked away from you months ago. So, did she love you? I believe the answer is "yes, in a childish way." Indeed, that childlike expression of affection has such a warmth and purity of expression that it accounts for much of her charm. My exW, for example, exudes such warmth that she puts strangers immediately at ease, making them feel in 30 minutes like they have known her for months. But did your exGF have a very clear perception of your intentions and motivations? I believe the answer is "no." Hence, although she "loved you" in a real sense, she was unable to see many of your best features and qualities.

is this thing worth salvaging? is it a total lost cause? ... its not like she doesn't know she has BPD she told me herself and said that she had taken lithium for a little while.

RC, it's a very good sign that your exGF is willing to acknowledge having BPD. It is unusual for a BPDer to be sufficiently self aware to do that. Yet, even when BPDers get over that hurdle, it is unusual to see them stay in therapy long enough to learn how to manage their emotions and be able to trust. My understanding is that it takes several years at the very least. Therapist Shari Schreiber says you have a greater chance riding to the moon strapped to a banana than ever seeing a BPDer stay in therapy long enough to make a difference.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, still does not acknowledge having BPD. I spent over $200,000 (in co-payments not covered by insurance) to take her to weekly visits with six different therapists. That went on weekly for 15 years. The problem is that, with an unstable woman, it is extremely difficult to tell if they are making any progress because they range from acting wonderful and loving to acting mean and hateful. How would you be able to tell?

 

For the first half of that period, I felt that (due to her having been sexually abused by her dad for years) she would have to get worse before she got better (as she got into touch with the hurt little girl inside her). Then, in the last half of the 15 years, I deceived myself into thinking she was improving. But she did not improve. Instead, she grew more resentful each year -- as BPDers usually do -- that I was failing to make her happy. So she had me arrested on a bogus charge, allowing her to obtain a restraining order for 18 months. This enabled her to kick me out of my own home (thereby living rent free) until the divorce was final. Clearly, she had not gotten any better.

i mean i see everything on here and it seems that if i were to tell her about all the symptoms and issues associated with it that maybe we could work through things.

If the two of you had only a communications problem, you could see a MC and "work through things." With a core injury to her personality, however, the damage is so deep set that only she can learn to manage the disorder -- in the unlikely event that she chooses to do so. For that type of disorder, marriage counseling would be totally useless, IME. Indeed, there is absolutely nothing you can do to "work through things." Instead, you would only stand by helplessly watching her flail about in the water, struggling to stay afloat. If you stay around and pull her out of the water, each time she will immediately turn around and jump back in because she craves the drama. Moreover, whatever advice you give her will be ignored because she cannot trust you. To see that hundreds of other nonBPD partners like you have reached that same conclusion, you would do well to visit BPDfamily.com and read the many stories in the "Leaving" and "Staying" message boards.