Woggle Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 http://yourlife.usatoday.com/sex-relationships/dating/story/2011/02/Men-women-flip-the-script-in-gender-expectation/43219110/1?csp=hf
mo mo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Experienced men have known this for quite some time. During their 20s, women are all about their independence-- that includes pursuing their careers, partying, and hooking up with a bunch of guys (and/or girls). A lot of women will knowingly push away good men during this stage out of fear of being "tied down". Once they start inching towards 30 there is a change in attitude and they start desperately rushing to find a guy that's "good enough" to marry or have children with. Meanwhile many of the men who they rejected in their 20s would have been better partners in the long run. But like I said, you probably already knew this.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I second what mo mo says. I would add that more and more women see as their ideal situation is to have children by one or more men...then marry another man and have a couple kids with him. This last man then raises the children of the woman. She gets to have her cake and eat it too. The monkey wrench in those works is that men don't always go along with that.
denise_xo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I second what mo mo says. I would add that more and more women see as their ideal situation is to have children by one or more men...then marry another man and have a couple kids with him. This last man then raises the children of the woman. She gets to have her cake and eat it too. The monkey wrench in those works is that men don't always go along with that. What are you basing this on? Any reserach that suggests this is true? Or is it based on a couple of women you have met? I don't know ANYONE (men or women) who have taken lightly on breaking up a marriage/home when there are children involved. I also don't know ANYONE who takes lightly on starting up new relationships that involves her children/his children/common children scenarios. However, EVERYONE I have spoken to about this situation acknowledges that it is a very complex, challenging and sensitive situation that has to be managed very carefully. So I'm curious to what you are basing this supposed trend on where more and more women supposedly see the scenario you outline as 'ideal'
mo mo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I second what mo mo says. I would add that more and more women see as their ideal situation is to have children by one or more men...then marry another man and have a couple kids with him. This last man then raises the children of the woman. She gets to have her cake and eat it too. The monkey wrench in those works is that men don't always go along with that. Those men are probably deadbeats that have kids of their own.. this goes back to finding a guy who is "good enough" I have a cousin that is about to turn 21. She has a 1 year old daughter. She is currently living with her father and step mother. She had to run away from Florida because her ex bf (the one she had a kid with) was abusive. Where she works, she met a guy that had just graduated college and is on the path to a lucrative career. He is a bit older than her but those 2 had a lot in common. She really liked him and let him pursue her.. up to a point. She started playing games with him. Once he saw what she was doing, he got tired of playing her game and moved on. She will probably not meet a guy like him again anytime soon. She knows this, everyone around her knows this, yet she still pushed him away. Now she's dating some lazy 32 year old that still lives with his parents. There's really nothing to be said.
zengirl Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Interesting read. I've met men and women who are commitmentphobes. I feel like women tend to be more upfront about it---but maybe that's because I'm a woman, and perhaps they're less upfront with men. I feel like the issue with commitmentphobic men is so many will let you waste time on them. That's lame. Commitmentphobes ought to stick together. The study shows there are both types of each gender, at each age. But, really, that article gets into a lot more interesting things than that. I did like this part, and find it very true in my generation: "Men and women are looking for similar assets and are not judging a potential partner on the basis of gender-related traits — that a woman is looking for a paycheck object or a man is looking for a sex object," she says. "They're both looking for the whole package, more so than in the past." I think that's true of married-minded people. To mo mo's point, I'm not so sure it's wise to settle down TOO early. I'm 26, and I'd say, for the past 2 years, I've been seriously considering a LTR that leads to marriage. Before 24, my criteria was still being formed for the most part, and I don't feel like I could've picked a partner I could stay with forever; I just didn't know myself well enough yet to know who I could commit to that way. My current BF could potentially (it's only 7 months in; I need time) be a marriage partner, based on what I know now, but I wasn't finding guys like him when I was 22. I was finding commitmentphobes, or at least guys who weren't anywhere near thinking about marriage yet. I wonder how many of these young people who said "Yes, I want to be married" in this study think so in a hypothetical way and will change their minds without being married. And I wonder what that male/female breakdown is. I feel like men do that more. But, again, maybe that's because I date men and they interact differently with me than women.
Chicago_Guy Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I second what mo mo says. I would add that more and more women see as their ideal situation is to have children by one or more men...then marry another man and have a couple kids with him. This last man then raises the children of the woman. She gets to have her cake and eat it too. The monkey wrench in those works is that men don't always go along with that. That is a terrible strategy because few men want to marry women with kids when there are plenty of available women without kids. Only a truly exception woman can pull this off unless she marries a man who is far less attractive than she is.
zengirl Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 That is a terrible strategy because few men want to marry women with kids when there are plenty of available women without kids. Only a truly exception woman can pull this off unless she marries a man who is far less attractive than she is. This is said so often on LS, but I just don't think this is true for divorced women, at least. I've seen plenty of blended families and second marriages (including my Mom and Stepdad) where women brought a child (or children) into the marriage, and I've not noticed some major trend where either the men are unattractive/flawed or the women are anything other than normal, good women. Many of them were not strikingly beautiful. Of course, I've only seen it within educated, middle/upper-middle class circles. Perhaps other circles are different. But I know plenty of men who don't discriminate based on children from a former marriage or partnership. About the same number of women I know. (FWIW, I've got no children, and I would discriminate against a single Dad, because I'm not at that stage in my life yet. So it's not a personal thing. I've just observed very different than the 'common knowledge' at LS appears to be, and it seems flawed to me.)
Author Woggle Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 I don't have an issue with marrying a woman with kids depending on the circumstances but the ones who try to do what some men in this describe should be avoided like the plague. Believing that having kids with a scumbag gives them better genes is just asinine. Also the comments under this article pretty much show the state of gender relations today.
zengirl Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I don't have an issue with marrying a woman with kids depending on the circumstances but the ones who try to do what some men in this describe should be avoided like the plague. Believing that having kids with a scumbag gives them better genes is just asinine. Also the comments under this article pretty much show the state of gender relations today. Yes, that POV would be asinine. While I'm not saying they don't exist, I've never met a woman who believed that. And I don't think kids are the determining factor there, so much as just a bad attitude towards people. Anyone, of any gender, who sees people as commodities to be used, disposable, or interchangeable, is not going to have productive and healthy relationships. I didn't read the comments. The comments under articles online are generally awful, except maybe on some of the scientific news blogs, I read. My personal hot button (like yours is gender issues) is politics, and I always just get angry when I read the comments under a news/political article. So, I wouldn't take that as general society. YMMV.
Cee Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Of course, it's age that is the major determinant for marriage interest, rather than gender. That makes sense now that I think of it. Marriage willingness isn't a good indicator on a person's desire to find a committed love relationship among older people. My 95 year old grandma says she wouldn't mind falling in love, but the men at the retirement home are too young for her. My aunt who has watched two husbands die horrible deaths tells me that she will never marry again. But she's had the same boyfriend for 20 years. And my mom who has been a widow for 20 years wants love, but is too scared to go out on the dating scene. [Off topic] I thought it was a little creepy that this Match study reported a finding that more male singles under 18 wanted children than female singles under 18. I'm not sure how Match was gathering it's data, but I don't like the thought of 15 year olds being polled by a dating site.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Also the comments under this article pretty much show the state of gender relations today. The good marriages of many of my friends, the wonderful camaraderie among young men and women in my 23 year old daughter's group of friends, my own mutually fulfilling relationship ... show the state of gender relations today that I intend to focus on and to nurture.
Disillusioned Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Once they start inching towards 30 there is a change in attitude Bull. I can show you dozens of women in their 50s and 60s who are frustrated because they've pushed decent men away for so long, word got around and men avoid them.
Cee Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Bull. I can show you dozens of women in their 50s and 60s who are frustrated because they've pushed decent men away for so long, word got around and men avoid them. So who are these single men in their 50s and 60s dating?
carhill Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 A couple of findings which run somewhat counter to LS conventional wisdom, as well as my personal experience: •Singles can fall in love with a friend. Seventy-one percent fell in love with someone they did not initially find attractive after having great conversations or shared interests or both; 35% fell in love with someone even though they felt no sparks initially. •Hookups and one-night stands can turn into partnerships. Thirty-five percent have had a one-night stand that turned into a long-term relationship. Interesting..... Oh, the guys in their 50's and 60's are dating women in their 30's and 40's
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Bull. I can show you dozens of women in their 50s and 60s who are frustrated because they've pushed decent men away for so long, word got around and men avoid them. Show me, please. And where is this mythical place where "word gets around"? Are these dozens of desperate crones all just going through the men in their cul de sac or at work?
SteveC80 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Look at the posts on here and other forums,allot of men looking for love from a women,allot of women looking for the perfect fantasy man
sally4sara Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 The view of marriage for 20 something women has become the view of marriage only men use to have. Even today, most men do not think about getting married till their career and monetary situation has solidified and they've kicked up their heels for a time. Now that women are as career oriented as men, I'm not sure why its so shocking that the same concerns and behaviors are being exhibited. If it wasn't an evil conspiracy for men to put marriage off till they were more stable then why is it so suspect for women to now have the same concerns and attitudes about stability before marriage? WTF? why does everything have to be so suspiciously scrutinized when its women doing it instead of just men? Forbid it ever becomes common for women to pee standing up! I can see the conspiracy theories now! "The battle of the toilet seat! Who's pissing ground is it anyway?!"
Disillusioned Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 So who are these single men in their 50s and 60s dating? If you have a passport, you can go overseas and ask them.
jenifer1972 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 If you have a passport, you can go overseas and ask them. You mean the sex shops of Taiwan or the internet wife capital of the world, the Phillipines??
mo mo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Bull. I can show you dozens of women in their 50s and 60s who are frustrated because they've pushed decent men away for so long, word got around and men avoid them. Well obviously I didn't mean every single woman. For the most part though, their clocks start to tick near 30.
mo mo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 The view of marriage for 20 something women has become the view of marriage only men use to have. Even today, most men do not think about getting married till their career and monetary situation has solidified and they've kicked up their heels for a time. Now that women are as career oriented as men, I'm not sure why its so shocking that the same concerns and behaviors are being exhibited. If it wasn't an evil conspiracy for men to put marriage off till they were more stable then why is it so suspect for women to now have the same concerns and attitudes about stability before marriage? WTF? why does everything have to be so suspiciously scrutinized when its women doing it instead of just men? Forbid it ever becomes common for women to pee standing up! I can see the conspiracy theories now! "The battle of the toilet seat! Who's pissing ground is it anyway?!" Women shouldn't get married until they feel they are ready. No one will argue that. However, I think the problem guys like me have is they knowingly push guys away that have long-term relationship potential. That's a problem.
mo mo Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I think that's true of married-minded people. To mo mo's point, I'm not so sure it's wise to settle down TOO early. I'm 26, and I'd say, for the past 2 years, I've been seriously considering a LTR that leads to marriage. Before 24, my criteria was still being formed for the most part, and I don't feel like I could've picked a partner I could stay with forever; I just didn't know myself well enough yet to know who I could commit to that way. My current BF could potentially (it's only 7 months in; I need time) be a marriage partner, based on what I know now, but I wasn't finding guys like him when I was 22. I was finding commitmentphobes, or at least guys who weren't anywhere near thinking about marriage yet. I wonder how many of these young people who said "Yes, I want to be married" in this study think so in a hypothetical way and will change their minds without being married. And I wonder what that male/female breakdown is. I feel like men do that more. But, again, maybe that's because I date men and they interact differently with me than women. I'm not saying everyone should be racing to settle down early, I'm saying that a lot of women in their 20s do not give decent men a chance because they think it is too soon to get tied down.. even if the guy never said anything about making a long-term commitment. You know its true..
sally4sara Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Women shouldn't get married until they feel they are ready. No one will argue that. However, I think the problem guys like me have is they knowingly push guys away that have long-term relationship potential. That's a problem. Oh, there are tons of reasonable people who can identify the difference between someone of either gender wanting to be ready before they contemplate marriage and actual commitmentphobes or folks who are their own worst enemy in dating. Unfortunately, they are not so often represented in these threads or on this site. And the most vocal among their group are constantly seeing signs that have them donning their internet placards and shouting "the end is nigh!" over anything women do no matter how benign or easily explained. I guess what I'm saying is a bitch is a bitch and no amount of "and they use to complain about US!" makes it any less obvious that they gotta have their preferred target or wonder where their balls went.
zengirl Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I'm not saying everyone should be racing to settle down early, I'm saying that a lot of women in their 20s do not give decent men a chance because they think it is too soon to get tied down.. even if the guy never said anything about making a long-term commitment. You know its true.. It's not really true of any of the girls I know. When they are single it's because they haven't met someone who meets their needs. It may be true in college, but I give a lot of people under 21 a pass because clarity doesn't settle in till later. Now, I know plenty of girls who date the wrong men, but it has nothing to do with not wanting to be tied down and everything to do with just having bad taste/people-picking skills. That's a maturity thing, and men and women are guilty of it when they're younger.
Recommended Posts