What does "separated" really mean?

[sc58]

Hello everyone,

 

I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Mine was very nice. I spent the day with MM and had a lovely dinner with my family.

 

MM had told me on Tuesday that his W had wanted to have a "talk" with him on Thanksgiving day. I actually thought it would be some sort of good news, because why would she bring up bad news on a holiday like Thanksgiving? But she wanted to talk about their situation and she asked him what he wanted. MM told her that he no longer wanted to be with her, and that he had felt that way for a long time. So now apparently they are "officially separated" - her words, not his.

 

But what does that really mean? They are still living together, but in separate rooms. They didn't spend Thanksgiving together, nor will they spend the upcoming holidays together. They spoke to MM's son and their daughter about the situation, so they wouldn't be confused about why they weren't spending the holidays together. I guess I don't understand how the situation is different from before this "talk"...It seems to be the same, but with a different title.

[jj33]

Often people dont leave the house until they have a formal financial separation. So does this mean that they are going to a lawyer and getting the process started or doing whatever they need to do in your state?

[awkward]

I think it is like a pitcher warming up. They will either reconcile or divorce. It looks like your MM is leaning towards divorce.

 

Perhaps before "the talk" they were sending each other mixed signals. Now it appears to be clear for them. Be careful though, I know married couples who were separated anywhere from two to four years that ended up reconciling. It's a crap shoot on who is going to follow through but him meeting with a lawyer and making the separation "official" is a promising action.

[carhill]

What does "separated" really mean?

 

Separate living quarters/domiciles

 

Separate finances

 

Separated friends and families

 

Formal legal agreement in lieu of divorce; essentially, being divorced, but without the legal authority to re-marry.

 

In your case, it's just more MM bullshyte. Sorry.

[desertIslandCactus]

Yes in addition it means some hurting and/or confused people.

 

Was his wife the OW in the MM's last marriage?

[bentnotbroken]

Sounds like in this case, everyone is on the same page and you will get your man soon.

[sc58]

Perhaps before "the talk" they were sending each other mixed signals. Now it appears to be clear for them.

 

That is what my MM said. That before this "talk," they were both just assuming what the other wanted, and now it is out in the open and clear to both of them, with no assumptions.

 

While they haven't talked to a lawyer or anything yet, they apparently had a lengthy discussion about custody of their child. She will get full custody, but says that he is free to see their daughter whenever he pleases, and won't fight him about it if he wants to do something with her. I don't know when they plan on getting the process started, but they (or she, at least), is letting everyone know they are "separated." He has talked to his family as well and let his parents and sister know that they are going to get divorced. And apparently his family is supportive of his decision. I thought they would be pushing him to stay married for their young daughter, but they said they will back up his decision.

 

Although this is promising news, I realize that it's not over til it's over, so I'm still being cautious.

[sc58]

Was his wife the OW in the MM's last marriage?

 

I think I have answered this question before, but no his wife is his first. He was not married to the mother of his son. They were both very young when she got pregnant, and he said he knew he didn't want to marry her. He met his W when his son was 5, I think.

[spice4life]

If it is in fact a real separation then it's just a matter of hashing out the details. When I decided to file for divorce my lawyer recommended that I stay under the same roof until my ex signed a legal separation agreement. In my State, at the time, leaving without a formal agreement could have been deemed abandonment.

 

However, what ever the case is here, it is important that you take care yourself right now. The roller coaster ride is not anywhere near over. Stay busy, live your life and don't try to analyze what they are doing...it is between them. Stay true to yourself and watch to see if his words match his actions. That is the only thing that matters right now.

[jwi71]

Separation?

 

Why would they both use that word instead of D? If they both want to be divorced why didn't they announce that?

 

No lawyer?

No one has filed for D?

They announced a SEPARATION to the family.

 

I'm not sure what has changed.

[Confused4Now]

Separation?

 

Why would they both use that word instead of D? If they both want to be divorced why didn't they announce that?

 

No lawyer?

No one has filed for D?

They announced a SEPARATION to the family.

 

I'm not sure what has changed.

 

This was my thought as well why not just say it's a D? Separation leaves things to wide open... Be careful... My xMW use the separation thing to me and then he's

moved back now for 18 months and nothings changed.

[2sunny]

Separation?

 

Why would they both use that word instead of D? If they both want to be divorced why didn't they announce that?

 

No lawyer?

No one has filed for D?

They announced a SEPARATION to the family.

 

I'm not sure what has changed.

 

a LEGAL separation? that needs papers filed with the court. since that hasn't been done - nothing has taken place... except a few more empty words... empty words that have NO evidence to back it up. it could all still be a total lie - for all you know.

 

your MM can TELL you anything... but until you have EVIDENCE - it's only empty words.

 

and really... a separation? why not tell others they are getting divorced? separation isn't the same as divorced! when i intended to get divorced - i said so... meanwhile my exH was begging for a legal separation - with the hope that we wouldn't ever REALLY get divorced.

 

so... separation doesn't actually mean your MM would be available... it just means he would be in a state of limbo... not really married - but also not divorced.

 

i don't see how this offers YOU anything worthwhile. it looks like a crock of BS to me.

 

look out for YOUR best interest... no one else will. he certainly won't - especially since he's agreeing to a separation when he SAYS he wants a divorce. he's a true cake eater! RUN!

 

find a man who is truly available.

[fooled once]

Separation?

 

Why would they both use that word instead of D? If they both want to be divorced why didn't they announce that?

 

No lawyer?

No one has filed for D?

They announced a SEPARATION to the family.

 

I'm not sure what has changed.

 

Ditto

 

a LEGAL separation? that needs papers filed with the court. since that hasn't been done - nothing has taken place... except a few more empty words... empty words that have NO evidence to back it up. it could all still be a total lie - for all you know.

 

your MM can TELL you anything... but until you have EVIDENCE - it's only empty words.

 

and really... a separation? why not tell others they are getting divorced? separation isn't the same as divorced! when i intended to get divorced - i said so... meanwhile my exH was begging for a legal separation - with the hope that we wouldn't ever REALLY get divorced.

 

so... separation doesn't actually mean your MM would be available... it just means he would be in a state of limbo... not really married - but also not divorced.

 

i don't see how this offers YOU anything worthwhile. it looks like a crock of BS to me.

 

look out for YOUR best interest... no one else will. he certainly won't - especially since he's agreeing to a separation when he SAYS he wants a divorce. he's a true cake eater! RUN!

 

find a man who is truly available.

 

Ditto

 

I divorced my first husband.

 

I never said "we are separated", I said "I have filed for divorce".

 

Depends on where you are (what state) and what the legal requirements are.

 

I know for me, I had to prove that we lived 'separate and apart' for a year before my case would go to court (in my state, a year of separation is required since we had a young child).

 

I also had to have a witness at court that swore that we had lived separate and apart for a year. IF at any time a couple has sex during that time, the year's time-line would restart.

 

So like the others, I don't see how this is any different than where you were a week ago.

 

And I think it is not the best thing for you two to announce you are dating -- it will let everyone know that you and he had an affair. I guess for me, there is no way I would want people to know I had participated in a situation that caused hurt to another person. I know many are proud of it ... what i mean is, proud to be able to be "out in the open" with the MM, but me personally, not a situation I would want. People are going to talk anyway - and while his son's mother isn't the wife (the son is from a previous relationship), I wouldn't want him to know that I was dating daddy while daddy was married to stepmom.

[Fieldsofgold]

Separation?

 

Why would they both use that word instead of D? If they both want to be divorced why didn't they announce that?

 

No lawyer?

No one has filed for D?

They announced a SEPARATION to the family.

 

I'm not sure what has changed.

 

agree with this. When I got my divorce, law required that we live separately for 30 days. I had to sign a sworn statement to that effect and have a witness who would vouch that we had lived apart for the required time. If we spent one night under the same roof, or had sex anywhere, the divorce had to be re-filed.

 

So I'm thinking that because they are still under the same roof, that may not mean much.

 

I'm curious - you said he said they talked to his daughter and explained to her that they were separating. Isn't she two years old? How did she take the news?

[Carrot2000]

As long as they're under the same roof, there's always opportunity for reconciliation,more delays in ending the marriage, and more games.

 

I know you are hesitant to push, but ask him what steps he's making toward a legal separation, one where he moves out and child support and custody orders are issued by the court. He's moved out before, so there should be no problem with him doing it again.

 

Hang in there and keep your eyes wide open. This mess is far from over...

[jennie-jennie]

It certainly looks like things are going in the right direction. I would be cautiously optimistic. Let your MM deal with this one step at a time. Don't push him, don't question him, just wait and see how it develops.

[SunsetRed]

Well, as a bitter, cynical woman who has been lied to and betrayed by a man "separated" for 3 years, I would say that separated means married and that the divorce will never happen and you'll get screwed over and kicked to the curb in the end. Like, I said..I am bitter and cynical and I'm only telling you what everyone told me when I used to post about dating a separated man who's divorce kept getting delayed.

 

It seems odd to think that a separated man WOULDN'T get divorced, esp since the divorce rate is now 50% or higher. For some reason, however, the men who are in limbo will end up going back to their wives for financial or emotional reasons.

 

Don't dump your guy just because of what people on a forum tell you, but do guard your heart and beware of all the risks you are taking.

Take care

[Star_Bright]

I think SunsetRed has some good points. Just keep in mind there's a strong possibility he'll remain married. My exMM separated relatively early into our affair and that didn't really mean diddly squat, except more confusion and limbo for him, me, his wife, his children... everyone. In many many ways I feel that dating a separated man is much harder than being in an affair. In my sitch I truly learned that separated means still married, not divorced and not even headed towards divorce, as I had naively assumed previously! And sadly in my sitch it was just another way for exMM to cake-eat... telling his wife he needed time and space to think about things, while he telling me he was getting divorced, thus keeping both of us for even longer, but in a state of complete limbo. It was no fun at all, very painful, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Instead my advice would be to step away until he's at least filed for divorce. I know that is hard to do but it's what I ended up needing to do, to distance myself from it all, and of course exMM still hasn't filed for divorce so I'm really glad I didn't waste any more of my time. I just don't want you to waste your time and energy on something that comes with absolutely no guarantee. A divorce decree is a guarantee that he can be with you and only you. A separation is nothing like that at all.

[carhill]

Alternatively, a divorce decree is no assurance that it is 'over'. I know the case of one LS'er in particular where this is quite true. In order for it to be 'over', as it is for my exW and myself, *both parties* must agree and show clear actions and words declaring it to be 'over'. The relationship and attachment *can* go on long after the court applies the seal.

 

My litmus paper is "How do you feel about your ex?" and "How do you feel about marriage?". Listening can be quite fruitful

[OWoman]

Separate living quarters/domiciles

 

Separate finances

 

Separated friends and families

 

Formal legal agreement in lieu of divorce; essentially, being divorced, but without the legal authority to re-marry.

 

In your case, it's just more MM bullshyte. Sorry.

 

I think this varies from place to place. I think even within the US it varies from state to state.

 

I know in my home country, a couple was deemed "separated" when either one of them claimed it to be (for legal or financial purposes; eg, if M COP, a W could no longer be held liable for her H's debt, nor he for hers, if one or both of them claimed they were separated, even if they both still had the same registered address.)

 

Separate domicile also means different things in different places. When I separated from my xH, I struggled to find a place to rent as a single mother with very young kids. So initially we continued to live in the same house - but we were very definitely separated and I had no intention at all of reconciling, and didn't!

 

OTOH, my H and his xW maintained separate finances, separate family & friends and separate bedrooms for most of their M. Despite that, people on LS swore that they were "very much M" - so really, you just can't win!

 

I'd say "separated" depends on intentions and understandings of both parties in the M. If they're seeing as a trial, to review whether they'd rather be together or apart, then it's like a first date IMO - everyone's checking each other out to see if it's worth their while to make any further investment.

 

If they're seeing "separated" as some necessary precursor (if required by law, especially) to D - to find separate places to live, to sort their finances out, and to prepare the kids - then that's something else.

 

How to tell the difference between the two would probably require hearing from both parties. If the BW is happy for the MM to date, she's probably in the second frame of mind; if she freaks out at the thought of him with someone else, she's in the first.

[carhill]

Since I date in the state of California in the United States, my perspective is reflective of the culture and statutes of that jurisdiction. Regardless, every item on my list is indicative of *actions* which indicate detachment from the marital unit and progression towards life as a single person.

 

In fact, one can be 'divorced' and still be just as emotionally attached to their former spouse as they were when married. So, IMO, it's not any one item which indicates a positive path to separation; it's the preponderance of items and choices which indicate such movement. Add in such questions as 'how do you feel about your spouse/ex?' and an even clearer picture can emerge. Open ended questions are great interrogatories.

 

Having had enough experience with cohabiting 'separated' people which ended me up in the OM category, I choose now to decline to consider anyone who doesn't live completely independently. If my exW and I could figure out how to do it with our very modest lifestyle, anyone can, even if it is rooming with family or friends. The good news is that most other men won't care, so the person will have plenty of dates to choose amongst. Men descended upon my exW like stink on shyte as soon as we didn't live in the same house. It all works out.

[Confused4Now]

My litmus paper is "How do you feel about your ex?" and "How do you feel about marriage?". Listening can be quite fruitful

hahahahaaha....Please? How can you listen to someone who's going to tell you what you want to hear? It's always been about actions period. Show me the papers or stay in your marriage. As it was said earlier even Final papers don't mean squat. I guess the bottom line is "What does you gut tell you?"

[carhill]

No worries. I'm very good at matching up words and actions. Some brutal treatment over the decades at the hands of MW's have taught me a lot. You can laugh. I learn

 

BTW, how could they (or you) possibly know what I want to hear?

[Confused4Now]

How to tell the difference between the two would probably require hearing from both parties. If the BW is happy for the MM to date, she's probably in the second frame of mind; if she freaks out at the thought of him with someone else, she's in the first.

Excellent point!!! This will show you that both parties are on the same page of dissolving their relationship/marriage.

[2sure]

So...

 

on Thanksgiving DAY before dinner it was the wife's amicable decision to tell their children their parents were divorcing.

 

DIDNT HAPPEN