Retrospective red flag: "I will dominate you."

[pandagirl]

This is something my ex told me when we first started dating. It was a really random comment over IM within our first few weeks of dating. I don't even remember the context of the statement, but it did stick.

 

My memory was jogged by it, because I just read a story in a magazine about a high profile divorce, and the wife said there were a few, but not HUGE, red flags. One of them being that during their dance at their wedding, he said to her: "I will always be the alpha in this relationship." She went on to describe how she was upset with the relationship, but her husband wasn't, and since he was fine with the way it was (in other words, he got everything he wanted and needed) it didn't need to be worked on.

 

She said that he wasn't always like this, but as he grew more successful and made more money and got more power, the less her needs mattered.

 

It occurred to me, this is what my ex meant when he said that he would "dominate" me. Our breakup sort of happened because he was unable to control the relationship anymore, and would not give into compromise.

 

Don't get me wrong, my ex was very loving and affection and supportive, but when push came to shove, it was his way or no way.

[TaraMaiden]

The most memorable and highly significant red flag for me was this;

 

My ex and I both had cars.

He - working in an office environment (and being largely sedentary all day), had the super-duper, state-of-the-art high-speed, automatic, cruise-control estate.

 

I, being a part-time working mum, who did all the housework, shopping, ferrying around, fetching and carrying and taxi work - had the 15-year old jaloppy, wich generally began falling apart the moment we bought it.... (I never had a car for more than 2 years....)

 

I once said to him:

 

"Why is it that *with all of the above* you get the super-sized de-luxe car which sits in a parking space all day, while I have the old and rattling bone-shaker that functions on burning oil, a wing and a prayer?"

 

he replied that to him, having a great car was a perk of the job, and his own special personal 'reward' for working so hard, and bringing home the main bacon.

I said this was unfair, as I relied on my car 100% with 2 kids, and the shopping to do. I worked just as hard as he did - if not harder, physically - it would have been nice if I could have a slightly better quality car.

 

His reply? (here comes the red flag)...

"Well, when you earn as much as I do, you can get yourself one."

 

I honestly feel a whole lot of my love for him irretrievably bit the dust at that moment.

[coloredinks]

Honestly, that comment is incredibly creepy and I can't imagine a context that would make it non creepy. I actually remember you mentioning at the time.

 

I think what made it even more weird to me is from the way you described him he didn't seem like an alpha male at all. So it seemed like he might have been this nice guy on the surface hiding this underlying aggression.

[Banega100]

yeah, yeah okay ladies, a guy wanting to dominate? yeah, total red flag!!

 

I tell you what, pick a submissive man next time instead. can't do it? nope, didnt think so. grow up.

[TaraMaiden]

Be quiet and get back in your box.

When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: (Just in case.) Yes, that was a joke.

[pandagirl]

His reply? (here comes the red flag)...

"Well, when you earn as much as I do, you can get yourself one."

 

I honestly feel a whole lot of my love for him irretrievably bit the dust at that moment.

 

Weird. What about... SHARING?? haha.

 

Honestly, that comment is incredibly creepy and I can't imagine a context that would make it non creepy. I actually remember you mentioning at the time.

 

I think what made it even more weird to me is from the way you described him he didn't seem like an alpha male at all. So it seemed like he might have been this nice guy on the surface hiding this underlying aggression.

 

My ex is a nice guy. For most of our relationship he was kind and supportive and always there for me when I needed him. I know he really was in love with me and he cared for me deeply. He showed me through words and actions.

 

But when push came to shove -- when things got tough or stressful -- that's when his aggression would come out. Or that was how he reacted towards a situation he felt out-of-control in. Like I said, my ex is a nice guy, but he could be very difficult at times. I just need/expect more from a partner.

 

In that article I read, the woman expressed how amazing and supportive and affectionate her husband was in the beginning of their dating and marriage. So for years he was a "nice guy." It wasn't until it became inconvenient for him to be this way, that he started to treat her poorly.

[CLC2008]

This is something my ex told me when we first started dating. It was a really random comment over IM within our first few weeks of dating. I don't even remember the context of the statement, but it did stick.

 

My memory was jogged by it, because I just read a story in a magazine about a high profile divorce, and the wife said there were a few, but not HUGE, red flags. One of them being that during their dance at their wedding, he said to her: "I will always be the alpha in this relationship." She went on to describe how she was upset with the relationship, but her husband wasn't, and since he was fine with the way it was (in other words, he got everything he wanted and needed) it didn't need to be worked on.

 

She said that he wasn't always like this, but as he grew more successful and made more money and got more power, the less her needs mattered.

 

It occurred to me, this is what my ex meant when he said that he would "dominate" me. Our breakup sort of happened because he was unable to control the relationship anymore, and would not give into compromise.

 

Don't get me wrong, my ex was very loving and affection and supportive, but when push came to shove, it was his way or no way.

 

It's hard to say, without knowing the full context of the IM conversation, and what prompted him to say that.

 

I think it's natural, when a relationship ends, that certain things will pop into our head and we associate it to other areas within the relationship.

 

It's kind of the mind's way of seeking it's own answers and closure.

[pandagirl]

It's hard to say, without knowing the full context of the IM conversation, and what prompted him to say that.

 

I think it's natural, when a relationship ends, that certain things will pop into our head and we associate it to other areas within the relationship.

 

It's kind of the mind's way of seeking it's own answers and closure.

 

I agree. I don't remember the context.

 

But it goes in accordance with other things he said throughout the relationship.

 

We talked about having children, and if we had a girl, he said their ears would be pierced when they were born (latin tradition). I (not latin) was like, "You've got to be kidding. That is ridiculous!" And we actually got into a fight about it, because he said: "I don't care, it will happen."

 

In our first real fight, I said that we needed to compromise to come to a decision, and he just said: "Well, I don't believe in compromise." It was said during the fight, but still. It really shocked me.

 

It's like he'd go from being Totally Understanding Caring Boyfriend, to totallly Domineering Controlling Boyfriend.

 

To be honest, I'm still confused at which one he is.

[CLC2008]

I agree. I don't remember the context.

 

But it goes in accordance with other things he said throughout the relationship.

 

We talked about having children, and if we had a girl, he said their ears would be pierced when they were born (latin tradition). I (not latin) was like, "You've got to be kidding. That is ridiculous!" And we actually got into a fight about it, because he said: "I don't care, it will happen."

 

In our first real fight, I said that we needed to compromise to come to a decision, and he just said: "Well, I don't believe in compromise." It was said during the fight, but still. It really shocked me.

 

It's like he'd go from being Totally Understanding Caring Boyfriend, to totallly Domineering Controlling Boyfriend.

 

To be honest, I'm still confused at which one he is.

 

The other comments, especially the "I do not believe in compromise", that is very telling and not something demonstrative of a caring and considerate boyfriend.

 

No relationship can ever survive nor withstand without compromise and willingness from both sides.

[BlueRidgeMTs]

Be quiet and get back in your box.

When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

 

 

ROFLMAO!! hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[carhill]

What's weird is, when I see dominating actions and words by males in long term (meaning multi-decade) marriages, I often cringe, thinking I could never treat my wife like that, and never did, but, oddly, these interactions appear to promote and preserve attraction and fidelity. The women in the dynamic are, for all intents and purposes, strong-willed and successful women in their own right, not submissive and obedient minion-wives. Of course, as far more successful (by society's terms) and advantaged males (meaning richer and more powerful), perhaps they can 'get away with' more dominating and aggressive behaviors with their wives and in general. Oh, well, another mystery....

[pandagirl]

What's weird is, when I see dominating actions and words by males in long term (meaning multi-decade) marriages, I often cringe, thinking I could never treat my wife like that, and never did, but, oddly, these interactions appear to promote and preserve attraction and fidelity. The women in the dynamic are, for all intents and purposes, strong-willed and successful women in their own right, not submissive and obedient minion-wives. Of course, as far more successful (by society's terms) and advantaged males (meaning richer and more powerful), perhaps they can 'get away with' more dominating and aggressive behaviors with their wives and in general. Oh, well, another mystery....

 

I don't mind *some* domination, as long as it doesn't result in me being unhappy. I consider myself strong-willed and successful, but for me, there are a lot of decisions in a relationship I don't really care about making: what car to buy, how to decorate, etc.

 

However, when the "dominating" has to do with the quality of the relationship, that's when it doesn't work for me. And I don't know what woman would be happy in a relationship when her emotional needs aren't met.

[coloredinks]

Weird. What about... SHARING?? haha.

 

 

 

My ex is a nice guy. For most of our relationship he was kind and supportive and always there for me when I needed him. I know he really was in love with me and he cared for me deeply. He showed me through words and actions.

 

But when push came to shove -- when things got tough or stressful -- that's when his aggression would come out. Or that was how he reacted towards a situation he felt out-of-control in. Like I said, my ex is a nice guy, but he could be very difficult at times. I just need/expect more from a partner.

 

In that article I read, the woman expressed how amazing and supportive and affectionate her husband was in the beginning of their dating and marriage. So for years he was a "nice guy." It wasn't until it became inconvenient for him to be this way, that he started to treat her poorly.

 

Guys with a veneer of niceness, and aggression bubbling beneath the surface, are always trouble. They don't tend to be direct, and because they don't release their aggression at appropriate times, the result is unexpected bursts and erratic behavior. Better to date somebody who is upfront about their emotions at all times.

[pandagirl]

Guys with a veneer of niceness, and aggression bubbling beneath the surface, are always trouble. First off, they don't tend to be direct, and because they don't release their aggression at appropriate times, the result is unexpected bursts and erratic behavior.

 

His behavior was never erratic. There was always a reason for his anger, but I was just surprised that it existed at all. I feel like it's just a really non-productive way to deal with problems and stress.

 

And might I add: I feel this is why we could never resolve our OWN relationship issues.

[carhill]

However, when the "dominating" has to do with the quality of the relationship, that's when it doesn't work for me.

 

Yes, my examples were recent experiences wrt interpersonal communication and action; I submit that each person has their strengths and weaknesses and perhaps one dominates in their areas of strength, but my observations ran more to the *tone* of that domination rather than its content.

 

I've found, almost universally, that successful men deign to 'talk things through', rather preferring shortcuts to the end result. Perhaps it is instructive that they pick, correctly, compatible women to mate with and marry; women who find that style, coupled with their success, to be attractive and desirable. More good information

[pandagirl]

Yes, my examples were recent experiences wrt interpersonal communication and action; I submit that each person has their strengths and weaknesses and perhaps one dominates in their areas of strength, but my observations ran more to the *tone* of that domination rather than its content.

 

I've found, almost universally, that successful men deign to 'talk things through', rather preferring shortcuts to the end result. Perhaps it is instructive that they pick, correctly, compatible women to mate with and marry; women who find that style, coupled with their success, to be attractive and desirable. More good information

 

Ah, I see. Yes, I think when ex and I were both at our best, our strengths and weaknesses really complemented each other, which is why I think we were so happy.

 

But, yes, he HATES talking things through. Who are these women who don't WANT to talk things through?? haha.

[carhill]

Who are these women who don't WANT to talk things through?? haha.

 

LOL, those would be the wives who engage me

 

And, seriously, this is what I see. The women get such needs met through other outlets, preserving their power base and social status. It really does work, for them.

[coloredinks]

Panda, honestly in all your threads since you started dating your ex something about him gave me the creeps. I can't quite pinpoint what it is. But I don't think you really lost much.

[pandagirl]

LOL, those would be the wives who engage me

 

And, seriously, this is what I see. The women get such needs met through other outlets, preserving their power base and social status. It really does work, for them.

 

Are you talking about women who care more about their superficial needs, rather than deep emotional needs? As in... trophy wives?

 

Panda, honestly in all your threads since you started dating your ex something about him gave me the creeps. I can't quite pinpoint what it is. But I don't think you really lost much.

 

He's not a creep. He's a good guy... He'll find someone else better suited for him, as will I.

[FryFish]

Honestly, that comment is incredibly creepy and I can't imagine a context that would make it non creepy.

If they were talking about playing some sort of competitive video game it would not be creepy at all.

[carhill]

Are you talking about women who care more about their superficial needs, rather than deep emotional needs? As in... trophy wives?

 

'my husband feels no compassion'

 

'I don't have anyone to talk to'

 

'I know we have issues and my husband doesn't believe in counseling'

 

'You seem to really care'

 

All phrases, amongst others, heard within the last year. I have chronicled some past encounters in my journals. These particular wives, successful, generally popular and all my age or older (so no 'trophies' in the classic sense) find parity in compartmentalizing their marriages and maintaining the aforementioned power base while 'innocently' getting their needs met in ways which they cannot with their dominant, successful male partners. I've come to see it as a 'cleansing' of their psyche which allows them to remain positive, loyal (in their own minds) and loving within relationships which offer them most, but not all, of what they seek from marriage. Those who historically had poor boundaries were potential MW's for EA's (and perhaps PA's with other men) but the overwhelming majority do not demonstrate that issue.

 

The overriding commonality is that they were/are *attracted* to the dominant, successful male, much as my ex was/is, regardless of what they might opine they *want*. Accepting this reality was key to my changing myself and my people-picker. Now I can accept them, as well as single women with a similar perspective, without any emotional investment of my own, something I was unable to do prior. That was one of the great life lessons marriage and an affair taught me, to care less about and invest less in people who substantially demonstrate their perspective as being incompatible. Respect, in this case, them as people and wives of colleagues and friends, but remain distant emotionally. So far, it's working well. Interestingly, I've found they tend to move on when presented with this dynamic. Women appear to be very perceptive creatures. This I like about them

 

I'm looking forward to meeting women with superficial needs. Sounds relaxing. I hope they're fertile

[pandagirl]

'my husband feels no compassion'

 

'I don't have anyone to talk to'

 

'I know we have issues and my husband doesn't believe in counseling'

 

'You seem to really care'

 

All phrases, amongst others, heard within the last year. I have chronicled some past encounters in my journals. These particular wives, successful, generally popular and all my age or older (so no 'trophies' in the classic sense) find parity in compartmentalizing their marriages and maintaining the aforementioned power base while 'innocently' getting their needs met in ways which they cannot with their dominant, successful male partners. I've come to see it as a 'cleansing' of their psyche which allows them to remain positive, loyal (in their own minds) and loving within relationships which offer them most, but not all, of what they seek from marriage. Those who historically had poor boundaries were potential MW's for EA's (and perhaps PA's with other men) but the overwhelming majority do not demonstrate that issue.

 

The overriding commonality is that they were/are *attracted* to the dominant, successful male, much as my ex was/is, regardless of what they might opine they *want*. Accepting this reality was key to my changing myself and my people-picker. Now I can accept them, as well as single women with a similar perspective, without any emotional investment of my own, something I was unable to do prior. That was one of the great life lessons marriage and an affair taught me, to care less about and invest less in people who substantially demonstrate their perspective as being incompatible. Respect, in this case, them as people and wives of colleagues and friends, but remain distant emotionally. So far, it's working well. Interestingly, I've found they tend to move on when presented with this dynamic. Women appear to be very perceptive creatures. This I like about them

 

I'm looking forward to meeting women with superficial needs. Sounds relaxing. I hope they're fertile

 

I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. But I find it hard to believe that most women would be able to stay in a life-long relationship when they don't feel their husband has "compassion."

 

Which is why, you say, they come to you, because they have neatly have you there to fulfill that need.

 

However, for me, I would feel really miserable if my husband didn't "understand" me. I'm a total believer that our partner cannot fulfill all your needs, which is why I have girlfriends, who will listen and talk to me.

 

But without that support or recognition of that from my male partner, I would be very, very unhappy. But the part I bolded above makes sense, because it leaves the woman always wanting more, which equals attraction. For me though, it would kill my attraction.

 

And often, this is why successful, dominant men marry women, then get divorced, then marry another woman 20 years younger. Rinse, repeat.

[carhill]

Perhaps it is merely a feature of my generation, as compared to that of our children and grandchildren. Different times, different socialization, different societal dynamics. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

 

There is an oft-repeated adage amongst some males of my generation that 'you want her to really know you cared about her and loved her, to be completely sure of that, when you look in her eyes on your deathbed. Not one minute sooner.' IOW, in some small way or circumstance, always keep her guessing and pursuing that last morsel of true and complete commitment and love.

 

I personally found that perspective abhorrent, but time and life experience appears to have proven me wrong and proven them right. It's hard to deny cold hard anecdotes over decades.

 

FWIW, I thought your guy was/is a good guy and I'm sorry things didn't work out. At a different time in life, at a different stage of your mutual growth, you might have been perfect for each other. It is what it is. An infinite number of variables bring us together. Sometimes it's kismet and sometimes it's 'meh'. Life goes on

[pandagirl]

Perhaps it is merely a feature of my generation, as compared to that of our children and grandchildren. Different times, different socialization, different societal dynamics. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

 

I am a modern woman. But it's true, I want a guy who sort of straddles masculine and feminine. I don't know if that exists. My ex was THE most stereotypically "manly" of any guy I've ever dated.

 

FWIW, I thought your guy was/is a good guy and I'm sorry things didn't work out. At a different time in life, at a different stage of your mutual growth, you might have been perfect for each other. It is what it is. An infinite number of variables bring us together. Sometimes it's kismet and sometimes it's 'meh'. Life goes on

 

I know he is a good guy. And I still love him and miss him. Not only were we at different stages of our lives (him career and me more long-term/marriage minded) and long-distance, I was dealing with depression, and he was dealing with the flux of his own life.

 

But, as you said, life goes on and that's what I'm doing. Though my heart still has a hole in it, that I hope will fill up soon.

[CLC2008]

I recall an incident with my ex (who I was with six years, and am VERY happy that we are no longer together), but I had to have my windshield wiper blades replaced on my own car. So, I took my car to Jiffy Lube and had them replaced.

 

The ex was so mad that I did it without consulting him first because HE wanted to replace them for me. He also made a snide comment like "eh, they probably ripped you off, that's why you should have had me do it" and that "I wasn't thinking/using my head".

 

It turned into this huge argument, over windshield wiper blades.

 

It was a common theme throughout the relationship, in that anytime he wasn't consulted or had the ultimate say in things, it would cause an argument and he'd end up belittling me over it.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, that in many ways, he was a good guy and a caring boyfriend (just like yours), but what lacked the most, was a partnership.