missner Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) Hey, Loveshack. I've lurked for a while and decided I've exhausted so many other avenues of advice, and my case isn't typical, that I should see what kind of perspectives and experienced individuals may have to say here. I apologize for the absolute epic story here, but I truly believe in providing full context, for those who want the full story Prologue: I've never been in a serious relationship prior to this, and have shielded myself for a variety of reasons from becoming attached to someone, and only had one sexual relationship before this (brief.) She (from here on out referred to as Kayla) had been in several relationships, the one before me for several years. We are a year apart, me being a year older than her. I am 25. We aren't tall people, and she's only about 2 inches shorter than I am. We met playing an MMO online together, and originally we were friends. Infact, I "friend zoned" her so to speak for ages. She was very head-over-heels for me, did a lot to stay up to date with what was going on in my life, we shared a lot, we did some fooling around online (pictures, dirty talk), she asked a lot if there was a chance I'd come see her. The vast majority of our communication was instant messaging, or on voice communication, and then we had texting and voice conversations as well. I more or less give her no clear answer on what I want and say I'm not ready for anything and don't think I want to do anything online, for literally a year, even with her bringing it up a few times and us still messing around from time to time. A few times I hurt her feelings because of how cold I could be and not reciprocate the desire to want to meet, and she'd not talk for a while, but would nearly always be the one to initiate contact again. In some rare cases, I did contact her to make sure things were alright - due to family health issues and her own that I knew were present. She made sure to point out to me that she knew I cared about her enough, because whenever there was a holiday, or her birthday, I'd "check up" on her to see what she was up to, I suppose she was right, to see if she was seeing anybody yet. She told me at one point that she is so disgusted by the people she meets in the typical bar/dating scene, and she's truly a closet nerd who likes to sit at home, read, play games, watch movies, and that if she was with me, she could do all that and not be bothered or judged, because we share the same feelings about it. Finally I admitted once that I was thinking about her and wanted to meet her, and we made plans to do so, she was ecstatic. We met at a destination that wasn't local to either of us, a short weekend for an event and some fun. Things were a bit awkward, we meant to have sex but unfortunately it was that time of the month for her and in the middle of the act we stopped. We didn't really let any of that bother us though. We left that weekend feeling fine though and didn't say or act any strangely, and really only got closer and desiring intimacy further because of the interruption previous. After that first meeting we started doing webcam sessions together, not for the purposes of like, sexual release, but just to get closer to each other since we can actually see each other. Not long before the time I was come to visit her for the 2nd time, she started getting very erotic and detailed with what she wanted to try, making some suggestions on things to bring with me that we could use/do and so on. I thought it was a little eyebrow raising from her, but knew she was probably very eager for some sex, aren't we all? I flew to her house this time, and she lives with her parents. We didn't have anything really planned for the short weekend and just watched a movie and did some mall browsing and hung out at the house. I tried to get intimate when we were there, and she was reluctant, she made a few excuses each time (the very first night I got there I tried some stuff, she implied to keep it low key that night), then the next day I tried again, again it was something, and then finally that evening I tried once more, and she was still reluctant because she didn't feel comfortable doing anything in her parents house (although noone was home). I, in the terrible-foresight mindset that I had, said something to the effect of "you basically ruined the whole weekend", implying because she wouldn't put out, that this was a waste. That really hurt her feelings big time and I apologized and we talked but she was cold to me that night and the next day. The drive back to the airport was cold, and the kiss I expected before I left I practically had to ask for and it was very unfeeling. I knew I ****ed up and texted and apologized like mad. She finally talked to me later that week (2-3 days later) and told me that she didn't feel anything with me and that it just wasn't going to work and we should be friends. Reasons for her not feeling it with me was because I was uptight and anxious due to never having really been with someone I cared about before, and I was clingy/needy/too affectionate. I was distraught, blah blah blah, we talked on and off. Eventually we were talking again and as friends. Over the next few months (2-3) we became closer and closer again and she wistfully asked at one point why I couldn't have been more like I am 'now', when I originally visited her those two times. Yeah, the two times - she said even the first time we met in a different state together that some of the things I did were offputting. Well I ended up just splurging with my feelings and thoughts about getting back together again when she said that, even though she said it as kind of rhetorical. She didn't give an affirmative answer in regards to giving it another shot, but it was something like "maybe in time, I'll get over it" Sure enough, in a few more weeks, she did feel comfortable enough for us to make plans. We arranged for a week stay somewhere, and leading up to that date was great, and we loved the anticipation. She told me we weren't going into this as a couple, and just going to spend a week together and whatever happens, happens. The week we spent together was flat out perfection, after some initial anxiety issues with sexual performance, I ended up getting over it before the week was even half done, and it was excellent for the rest. She was also comfortable enough the very first night that she was completely fine with sex. Everything went without a hitch, she even gave tons of personal affection ("PDA") which used to be semi off-limits due to how new our relationship was, so I knew she was very comfortable now. The last day we had together before I had to drive her back to the airport, we were sitting on a bench watching the sun, and she cried. I asked her why, and she said because she was so happy. It was just absolute tears of joy and love. It was ridiculously movie esque, haha, but it felt awesome. This time as she was leaving at the airport, we had the best kiss of our relationship, and off she went. Facebook statuses were updated, extreme joy was had, and we were perfect. We had more deep talks in this time and Kayla came to me once and told me she had something to tell me. It was about how much I mean to her and how she's finally truly happy, and that she knows - truly knows - that I am the one she wants to be with, and this is when she said she loves me. We don't just throw the word around casually, so this was the breakthrough moment for us proclaiming pretty much our undying love to each other, so to speak. Actual marriage talk wasn't on the table, but I get the impression from similar talks and her utter enjoyment of weddings that she thought I was the one she wanted to marry. We immediately thought about our next time together, but financial troubles for us made it difficult to plan; plus we both wanted to move out of our current living arrangements (parents) and get a place together, so we didn't want to spend too much on trips in the meantime. At this point, since our first time meeting and talking online indepth, it had been almost 2 years - and about 5 months since our first in-person meeting. The desire for us to just move out and finally start living together was growing, so 3 months ago (+/- a couple of days) I drove to her. Leading up to this was several months of us looking at condos and apartments in her area online, we decided me relocating to her area made more sense, given family considerations and all. She went to quite a few condos and apartments in person with real estate agents, actually wearing her mother's engagement ring to claim she's engaged to me so that we can get accepted as a single entity income. (Otherwise, it would have been difficult, because a non-engaged or married couple needs to have each party individually make enough, but they have no way to prove if the couple is really engaged outside of like, a ring.) It was a solid day's drive, but it was a little easier than a plane trip, and good experience for the future. Once arriving we hung out, and now is when I should mention some more relevant context. When I first saw her - online only - years earlier, she was in pretty great shape, not a skinny girl, which isn't really my thing anyways, but definitely had some curves in all the right places. Over the years and months of us knowing each other and originally meeting, she had started putting on weight. I later learned that this was due to some health issues she has that makes it very difficult, but it is something that can be overcome. We saw our condo we were interested in the next day, and it was awesome, so we signed the application for it with excitement. We drove around the city and did a few things, saw a movie. It was during this short trip that I started having thoughts I couldn't immediately figure out what they were. I didn't know if I was still attracted to her due to her weight she had put on, or if it was pressure of massive life changes, or my own insecurities of some type. I didn't say anything to her though. We spent a lot of time with her family and extended family who were in town, so I was attempting to be polite, appropriate, and cordial, while also actually picturing these people as my inlaws one day. This was fine, since I really liked her family, they were very warm, and we seemed to get along great! On the 2nd night there (the night of the first full day, though, since I arrived late originally), when we were getting intimate, again in her room at her parents house, (but this time it was okay! and the parents were even home!) I at one point wanted her to be on top, so that I could actually enter from that position and not have her do too much work. She was reluctant and after some difficulty of getting me in to her (she likes to always put me in, and I'm not a small dude down there or anything, also it's always very dark when we end up doing it), she declined to do anything in that position, and wanted to go back on the bottom underneath me. I was very perplexed at that whole interaction and didn't know what to think - my immediate thought was that she didn't want me to do it from that position and somehow her fumbling to get me inside was my own fault due to my size, or that my height wont work in that position or something. I said it's okay we don't have to do anything tonight and I just wanted to cuddle the rest of the night, so we did. The last day I was there we spent a lot of time simply cuddling together and getting semi frisky when privacy permitted, but I was feeling ugh that whole weekend (I was coming down with a pretty serious cold I later learned). I ended up retiring early and told her as much, "hey, I'm going to crash early, I feel awful". I did have to drive 11+ hours the next morning, after all. She came up a few minutes afterwards and asked me what was wrong. "What's wrong? We don't have to like each other, you know." Something like that. I was like, uh, huh? I just feel crappy. She insisted something was up, and that I was acting weird (I assume she said something like that, I don't remember much of the conversation except...) I kept asking if we could just chat in the morning once I've gotten some sleep, she kept asking what was going on, I asked if we could have the week to think on it, she wanted to know why we needed a week, kept pursuing, finally I said... "I guess I felt a bit awkward or inept next to you due to our size differences" This was the atomic bomb that dropped and blew everything up. She immediately was like, are you calling me fat? and I was like no, no, look, but before much could be said, she asked me to leave. Yeah, that night, so I packed and started driving. She called me like an hour later and told me that while she's still very angry at me, that I can come back and sleep on the couch at least. I said thanks but I'm already far enough away since I had been driving for a while. She texted me like 30-45 after that and told me that I should get a hotel, which I did, and told her as much. She immediately removed me from facebook, and all that. I get home and she's online but I figure I shouldn't message her because she hates me right now. She messages me a bit later and said I could have at least told her I got home safely, she may really hate me right now but she still cares to know if I'm safe. We chatted, I apologized a lot, I told her I just want us to work out together. We did already have plans to get a gym membership together when we move in and do it together. She felt I shouldn't have been judgemental like that (duh) and that I completely crushed her, knowing that that whole weekend she was happy and that I was thinking about "other stuff" or whatever. She was right, I didn't really have a great rebuttal other than the fact that I absolutely still loved her - I realized this as soon as I was leaving her house, haha. I thought about just how much I truly cared about her and nothing compared, and how ideal we were. She told me the awkwardness that night with the position was because she just wanted to be quiet, thinking that position would be noisy, as her parents were in the room over. (I actually don't know exactly when or how she told me that, but I know I was told at some point after the fact.) She told me how this is why she doesn't normally give guys a 2nd chance, and it was nice knowing me, and she hopes I have a good life, etc etc. I was like wow really, I just want to help you. She told me how she doesn't want help and doesn't want to do anything for anybody but herself, and only wants to change for herself, and that's why she wants to get in shape, not for me. She attacked me back with personal insults to hurt my feelings the way I did hers, how she got over her problems with my appearance because of who I am as a person, and how I'm not super muscular and stuff - stuff I knew she really didn't care that much about, but knew it would get a little under my skin, so I didn't take it too personally. "I just want to help you" - again from me, was met with a very disgusted yell and sign off retort from her, to which she signed back on like an hour later and apologized for that and said no she could never hate me. Alright, so initial dramatics were out of the way, I absolutely crushed her and that was apparent. I felt awful. We chatted on and off in the weeks that followed and talked about jobs, tv, music, games, whatever. Often she would initiate contact with me, (this was always done via IM), sometimes it was me, sometimes neither of us would even though we were both online. Somehow I went 3 months without a complete breakdown this time (I faired much better), and after about a month and a half after that breakup, I realized what a big part of my problem was. Also I feel it's worth mentioning, but hard to prove, so you have to take my word for it, that the messaging client we used, she only used to talk to me. So sometimes she'd be online and not initiate contact at all, and sign off, since I didn't either. During this, she did tell me some very serious, personal issues she's going through and recently found out (after we had broken up), health and medical related stuff with herself AND her family at the same time. I always have been supportive of her in this stuff and wished her and her family the best. My insecurity is about my height, since I'm not a tall guy, her ex was tall.. and that moment in bed where I felt inept/the position change, that's what I'm talking about. Infact that's why I used that word "inept", because I was talking about myself as well. I talked to some close friends about it and they told me I should let her know. So, I put together nearly a 10 minute video clip of me talking about us, my insecurity, that night, how much I loved her, and a short montage of quotes from our favorite shows. I showed it to a few close female friends who thought it was extremely well done and touching and honest, and that they would've given me a standing ovation and figured it would make her cry. Well, I showed it to her, and this was her response. I don't like including an IM convo here, but I don't think there's any other way to convey this effectively. Any shortness or "cut off" sentences is entirely correct and not a mistake: Kayla: I don't really know what to say Kayla: it was very sweet but I just I'm sorry - I don't want to keep hurting you Me: what are you talking about? Kayla: the thing you sent me Me: no, with saying you don't want to keep hurting me Kayla: I just don't know how to respond Me: you can't just talk at all? say what you feel? Me: I completely beared my soul and I was nervous, shaking, more than I ever have in any situation I was so nervous Me: after sending you that Kayla: I know and I thought it was very sweet, of course I care about you, I know me it just wouldn't be the same. Me: why? tell me why Kayla: because I know I just couldn't feel comfortable that way around you after what happened that night Kayla: when someone hurts me, makes me cry I just get so Me: I explained that.. we already talked about it.. and I told you about an insecurity i had. I think you're beautiful inside and out and I love you more than you can possibly imagine Me: and that is what makes me want you Kayla: and I'm sorry - I don't feel that way anymore - we only saw eachother a handfull of times and to have that one time just be so intense I just Kayla is offline She wasn't finishing her thoughts completely, and signed off after not long. This was less than a week ago, and her birthday is coming up soon. I got her a simple card that literally only says Happy Birthday Kayla, -me, with a smiley face, and now I'm hesitant to send it after reading so much about the "NC guide" stuff. She stated pretty clearly she doesn't feel the same way, but on the same token, she had said so many very deep, very long term, heartfelt things. I made her uncomfortable because she thought I was soley talking about her weight, which I wasn't, and I don't know if she'll be able to accept that without just continuing to get angry at me. For the record, she told me she didn't have self esteem issues very early on in our friendship, but over the years, I got the impression that she does have some after all, due to how much she dislikes pictures of herself (it was hard to ever get a picture of her, let alone one she would let me post). However, I still absolutely love her regardless of that and find her beautiful. I'm still hopelessly in love with her, for good reason, and I would like opinions from anyone who's made it this far. Both times our relationship ended up turning sour because of sex at her parents house in her room! Big mistake, made twice! I absolutely want to get back together with her. My plans at this point that I will probably take are to move to a different state and try my hand at a career of sorts, which she has been aware of and very supportive of for years, and always encouraged me to do. Edited August 31, 2010 by missner
Lost Fish Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) Hey Missner. Good read, lol - nice writing. You could consider that as a career too probably. So... this is a very unique situation. I will tell you right off the bat that the main reason for the breakup are the apparent body/image issues you both are dealing with. I think that she does care about you, and love you. And I think you have done all you can. You bared your own heart and soul in that video message/montage you sent her and I really think the ball is in her court. If you feel you need to, maybe send one final message and let her know everything you are feeling. All the good stuff about how she is absolutely beautiful and how you see the beauty in her where she doesn't...etc - girls love that stuff. Also - start working on yourself man. You seem like a great dude - smart, thoughtful, girls should be falling all over themselves for you. So why wait to join a gym? Or even just start working out at home. Be careful of a sedentary lifestyle - ya know? Start taking walks - then jogs etc. Be the best missner you can be. Even with the misunderstanding, she is the only one who can decide to let go of the event of the night in her parents' house. Honestly, she is really making you pay for it and really should have just let it go by now. I feel that she needs to come around eventually and all you can do is play it cool man. Like she said - be the confident, relaxed guy you were way back when she first met you online (it wasn't WoW was it? just curious, hehe). I feel like your story with her isn't over. Have faith and confidence in yourself. Any communication from her right now is a good sign. Just play it cool. And also learn from your mistakes, lol. Be very careful about saying anything that will make her feel fat. Even if it is all just in her head. And hopefully she will learn not to overreact all the time and you two will meet in the middle. Relationships are about compromise after all. Good luck to you and let us know how it plays out! Edited September 5, 2010 by Lost Fish punctuation is the devil
Trovador Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 I read the whole saga! Yup, you are very intelligent Missner and put the rigth nuances on paper so your story is very touchful... I couldn´t but emphatize with you, that is, I saw myself on certain parts of your story... But look, the whole business seems to me just a misunderstanding, one of those things girls take to heart and make a big fuzz about it but invariably they forgive... even if its about their looks (never say anything belittling to any woman, about their appearance)... I learnt this the hard way... Look, once I said to a gf that she was "awkard" (she was overweighted and was a large woman) and she felt bad, stop talking to me (she told me she cried herself to sleep) but the next day she enrolled a gym, among other things, and most important, she forgave me... we used to laugh about that anecdote... My point is she is blowing out of proportion, even when you meant the things you said... we are humans and we err all the time, and you did what you could to mend things... I guess she has to work a lot on her self esteem if you crushed her with an isolated and unfortunate episode of misunderstandings... I guess you need to take some space from the affair and forgive yourself so you can not feel so devastated, while keeping a light contact with her, I think she gradually will come to her senses and realize that you are fallible like all of us... If she doesn´t react favorably it means that awful night wasn't the sole reason to end the relationship but just the pretext...
Recommended Posts