Do women understand this about men?

[spriggig]

I had a conversation with an "enlightened" woman at work. I was surprised to find that she really didn't know that men don't think 24/7 about their relationships.

 

I told her that most men think "I love her and she loves me" and then they flip the channel. Not only do men NOT analyze every detail of a relationship, they barely even analyze the "I love her and she loves me" part that they ARE thinking.

 

Unless the woman makes it obvious that there is a problem, men are oblivious. We're not stupid, we just trust that we are loved.

So, the first time a problem crops up, the man is honestly interested in solving the actual problem. He has NO idea how to do it and will probably unwittingly fail but he is interested in the real problem. The SECOND (or so) time the problem arises, the man THINKS this was already covered and the problem becomes that the woman is yelling again. This time the man looks for a solution to the yelling "problem" and ignores the real problem.

 

This is key: when the yelling stops, the man goes right back to "I love her and she loves me". For a man there is almost nothing that can damage the baseline of love (cheating being one of the few that can) because the problems are blips on top of the baseline. For a woman the "baseline" is much higher--in the analytical intellect--and problems ERODE the baseline down. There is no solid floor of "I love him, he loves me" in a woman's mind. It's an open pit down there that she is constantly fighting to hold herself above.

[tommyr]

I agree 100%

Well said

[Meadow Blue]

So, the first time a problem crops up, the man is honestly interested in solving the actual problem. He has NO idea how to do it and will probably unwittingly fail but he is interested in the real problem. The SECOND (or so) time the problem arises, the man THINKS this was already covered and the problem becomes that the woman is yelling again. This time the man looks for a solution to the yelling "problem" and ignores the real problem.

If the man is actually interested in solving the problem, why doesn't he continue to try to solve it after he fails?

[spriggig]

If the man is actually interested in solving the problem, why doesn't he continue to try to solve it after he fails?

 

Because he doesn't think he failed. He thinks "We covered this already, I offered one or more viable solutions the first time and she isn't accepting them." The fact that the problem has arisen again is not evidence of his failure (of course it is, but he doesn't see it that way).

 

My point is that the problem(s) can arise multiple times and the baseline of "I love her, she loves me" remains untouched once the yelling stops.

 

For men, ordinary problems in a marriage do not erode the love he feels for his wife at all. Problems exist almost in a vacuum, as if on a check list that, once checked off are no longer a concern--regardless of how many times they pop up.

[Meadow Blue]

Because he doesn't think he failed. He thinks "We covered this already, I offered one or more viable solutions the first time and she isn't accepting them." The fact that the problem has arisen again is not evidence of his failure (of course it is, but he doesn't see it that way).

 

My point is that the problem(s) can arise multiple times and the baseline of "I love her, she loves me" remains untouched once the yelling stops.

 

For men, ordinary problems in a marriage do not erode the love he feels for his wife at all. Problems exist almost in a vacuum, as if on a check list that, once checked off are no longer a concern--regardless of how many times they pop up.

I think I understand what you're saying. It's an interesting point I hadn't thought of before.

 

I guess with my question I was going off-topic (I see now from this post), because I was curious how then, do men feel problems should be addressed, so that they are actually solved. I see now how this is not what your post is about, however.

[crazycatlady]

I've noticed this, spriggig, about my H. I don't think all men are like this. But a lot of them are. I try to keep the whole female type of thinking from spilling over out of my head and into our conversations too much. He also tries to understand that sometimes its just reassurance that I want, not solutions.

 

So yes, I do understand that about my man.

 

CCL

[spriggig]

I think I understand what you're saying. It's an interesting point I hadn't thought of before.

 

I guess with my question I was going off-topic (I see now from this post), because I was curious how then, do men feel problems should be addressed, so that they are actually solved. I see now how this is not what your post is about, however.

 

Judging from your post you are a woman? Do you think the idea that women are constantly analytically holding their love for another from falling into a pit is reasonably accurate? As opposed to it being normally secure?

[spriggig]

...He also tries to understand that sometimes its just reassurance that I want, not solutions.

 

I consider this an enlightened viewpoint. I wonder how much effort it takes on his part to remember to simply offer reassurance, "give a shoulder to cry on", instead of solutions. This effort is the work that is needed to keep a marriage together. The "work" that a lot of men don't explicitly understand.

Edited March 21, 2010 by spriggig

[threebyfate]

Because he doesn't think he failed. He thinks "We covered this already, I offered one or more viable solutions the first time and she isn't accepting them." The fact that the problem has arisen again is not evidence of his failure (of course it is, but he doesn't see it that way).

spriggig, do you understand how telling this phrase is? Consider this from a business perspective. If you have a client who has a problem with the service you provide, you throw out several solutions with no buy in from the client, then wander off, how long do you suppose the client will remain a client, particularly when the problem escalates, the second or umpteenth time around?

[Meadow Blue]

Judging from your post you are a woman? Do you think the idea that women are constantly analytically holding their love for another from falling into a pit is reasonably accurate? As opposed to it being normally secure?

 

Yes I'm a woman. I generally agree with your first statement...I'm thinking through the why though. I'm not sure if I agree that this is because women are inherently insecure in their relationships/love, or if women just need different things to be happy in the relationship, or something else.

[Meadow Blue]

spriggig, do you understand how telling this phrase is? Consider this from a business perspective. If you have a client who has a problem with the service you provide, you throw out several solutions with no buy in from the client, then wander off, how long do you suppose the client will remain a client, particularly when the problem escalates, the second or umpteenth time around?

This is kind of what I was thinking when I wrote my first post in this thread, although of course I had this though based on something else you wrote.

[spriggig]

spriggig, do you understand how telling this phrase is? Consider this from a business perspective. If you have a client who has a problem with the service you provide, you throw out several solutions with no buy in from the client, then wander off, how long do you suppose the client will remain a client, particularly when the problem escalates, the second or umpteenth time around?

 

Oh yes! I get it--it took my wife dumping me to see it, but I get it now. LOL!

[threebyfate]

This is kind of what I was thinking when I wrote my first post in this thread, although of course I had this though based on something else you wrote.

Yes, I could see this but wanted to illustrate this point a little more. It's key in communications between genders.

 

The other phrase that's key, is "viable solutions". One person's perspective of viable solution, might not be viable from the other person's perspective, hence, no buy in.

 

So when a man tosses out these "viable solutions" and gets no buy in, how is it possible he considers the situation resolved, unless he's taking the my way or the highway attitude? Would this same man do this to a million dollar revenue generating client?

 

spriggig, this is an enlightening thread. I'm not criticizing you as an individual but have experienced the exact same dynamic in past relationships. While I don't yell, the exasperation is clear. I also don't stick around in relationships where resolution doesn't happen. It's typically 1-2-3 and gone.

[threebyfate]

Oh yes! I get it--it took my wife dumping me to see it, but I get it now. LOL!

It looks like we crossed posts!

[sally4sara]

I totally see Sprigs description in men I know. Really a black and white view of a relationship and one I actually enjoy about my husband. If there is no conflict on the surface, there is not conflict under the surface; I seem happy so to him, WE are happy.

 

But the thing I really love about him helps keep this approach functional. We will be sitting quietly together and he will ask "Do you feel loved?" because he knows things that are obvious to me are not always obvious to him.

[Meadow Blue]

Yes, I could see this but wanted to illustrate this point a little more. It's key in communications between genders.

 

The other phrase that's key, is "viable solutions". One person's perspective of viable solution, might not be viable from the other person's perspective, hence, no buy in.

 

So when a man tosses out these "viable solutions" and gets no buy in, how is it possible he considers the situation resolved, unless he's taking the my way or the highway attitude? Would this same man do this to a million dollar revenue generating client?

 

spriggig, this is an enlightening thread. I'm not criticizing you as an individual but have experienced the exact same dynamic in past relationships. While I don't yell, the exasperation is clear. I also don't stick around in relationships where resolution doesn't happen. It's typically 1-2-3 and gone.

 

You made it much more clear I like the analogy, I'll have to try that sometime.

[spriggig]

Yes I'm a woman. I generally agree with your first statement...I'm thinking through the why though. I'm not sure if I agree that this is because women are inherently insecure in their relationships/love, or if women just need different things to be happy in the relationship, or something else.

 

Maybe the complex, high level, "always thinking about it" way that women approach love and intimate relationships in general leaves their half of the relationship vulnerable to outside erosion, while also providing a much richer, connected experience as long the relationship can be held intact. As long as both sides are working in concert to avoid erosion, everything is fine.

 

But men, who also feel insecure in relationships approach the problem by, perhaps, ignoring it on a very basic level? They simply tell themselves they aren't insecure ("I love her, she loves me").

[threebyfate]

You made it much more clear I like the analogy, I'll have to try that sometime.

Thanks.

 

Doesn't it sometimes feel like you're communicating with an alien?

 

You: Honey, can you stop doing abc issue? It's annoying.

Him: Grok, grok, grok, the sky is blue.

You: No, that's not what I'm talking about. Can we address the abc issue?

Him: Blurble, I'm hungry. Feed me and it will all be fine.

You: &*%@^(###!!!!

 

This is the exact reason why it works with my H. He listens and truly resolves, targeting the issue sometimes better than I can. He's also quick to point out issues of his own and expresses them clearly, so we're able to resolve his issues, post haste.

[spriggig]

It looks like we crossed posts!

 

No worries.

[spriggig]

This is the exact reason why it works with my H. He listens and truly resolves, targeting the issue sometimes better than I can. He's also quick to point out issues of his own and expresses them clearly, so we're able to resolve his issues, post haste.

 

Ah yes, effective communication is the solution to the problem, but simply recognizing that the basic difference exists is the first step.

 

I guess I hang out in the wrong circles, I don't know any men who have learned this. They are all the "grok, grok, the sky is blue", type and really don't even care to discuss the issue.

[Meadow Blue]

Thanks.

 

Doesn't it sometimes feel like you're communicating with an alien?

 

You: Honey, can you stop doing abc issue? It's annoying.

Him: Grok, grok, grok, the sky is blue.

You: No, that's not what I'm talking about. Can we address the abc issue?

Him: Blurble, I'm hungry. Feed me and it will all be fine.

You: &*%@^(###!!!!

 

This is the exact reason why it works with my H. He listens and truly resolves, targeting the issue sometimes better than I can. He's also quick to point out issues of his own and expresses them clearly, so we're able to resolve his issues, post haste.

Sounds about right The problem is finding someone you can communicate so well with....glad you have

[threebyfate]

Ah yes, effective communication is the solution to the problem, but simply recognizing that the basic difference exists is the first step.

Agreed.

 

I guess I hang out in the wrong circles, I don't know any men who have learned this. They are all the "grok, grok, the sky is blue", type and really don't even care to discuss the issue.

My dad is someone who's an effective communicator and I admire and respect him greatly, so the bar has always been set pretty high. That's partially why my romantic history has been a revolving door of men, until finally, finally, I met my H.

 

So you're right. There aren't too many around.

[xxoo]

There is no solid floor of "I love him, he loves me" in a woman's mind. It's an open pit down there that she is constantly fighting to hold herself above.

 

This reminds me of myself when I was younger--say, early-mid 20s or so. But I'm not like that any longer. My baseline is similar to what you describe, Sprig. It would take a big event to rock that baseline, along the lines of cheating, lying, sudden abuse, etc. I recognize my partner's love for me in the million mundane things he does for me and our children every day

 

 

My point is that the problem(s) can arise multiple times and the baseline of "I love her, she loves me" remains untouched once the yelling stops.

 

Again, also true for me if they are run of the mill living together type problems (clothing in the hamper, milk left out again, grumpy with me when pissed at a coworker, etc). Although yelling is quite rare for either of us. If it is a "dealbreaker" issue, however, that is a different story (addiction, abuse, etc).

 

For men, ordinary problems in a marriage do not erode the love he feels for his wife at all. Problems exist almost in a vacuum, as if on a check list that, once checked off are no longer a concern--regardless of how many times they pop up.

 

After reading some of the "sexless marriage" threads around here, I wonder how true this is. The sex issue, at least, seems cause resentment in many husbands, the same way other issues tend to cause built up resentment in wives. I wonder if it depends on what is a "dealbreaker" to the individual.

[fit]

I had a conversation with an "enlightened" woman at work. I was surprised to find that she really didn't know that men don't think 24/7 about their relationships.

 

I told her that most men think "I love her and she loves me" and then they flip the channel. Not only do men NOT analyze every detail of a relationship, they barely even analyze the "I love her and she loves me" part that they ARE thinking.

 

Unless the woman makes it obvious that there is a problem, men are oblivious. We're not stupid, we just trust that we are loved.

 

So, the first time a problem crops up, the man is honestly interested in solving the actual problem. He has NO idea how to do it and will probably unwittingly fail but he is interested in the real problem. The SECOND (or so) time the problem arises, the man THINKS this was already covered and the problem becomes that the woman is yelling again. This time the man looks for a solution to the yelling "problem" and ignores the real problem.

 

This is key: when the yelling stops, the man goes right back to "I love her and she loves me". For a man there is almost nothing that can damage the baseline of love (cheating being one of the few that can) because the problems are blips on top of the baseline. For a woman the "baseline" is much higher--in the analytical intellect--and problems ERODE the baseline down. There is no solid floor of "I love him, he loves me" in a woman's mind. It's an open pit down there that she is constantly fighting to hold herself above.

 

Excellent post Spriggig. I have seen this come up wayyy too often while engaged in arguments with my wife or previous relationships.

Women tend to throw out..."you dont love me" a hell of a lot more than men in arguments. Perhaps this is why men are calmer during arguments because that baseline of "you love me I love you" is never damaged.

[Tony T]

I had a conversation with an "enlightened" woman at work. I was surprised to find that she really didn't know that men don't think 24/7 about their relationships.

 

This is not true of all men and of all times. There are times in a relationship when the man gives it a lot of thought, perhaps not 24/7 but a considerable amount of time. Then there are other times when his thoughts necessarily need to be on other things.

 

All this totally depends on the man. A male who is extremely insecure may obsess about a relationship constantly. I think making generalizations can be very dangerous and certainly not informative.