tigressA Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 I was talking with a guy friend of mine the other day about our attitudes toward sex and dating. He told me that when he was in FWB situations, he was completely free sexually, indulged in a lot of kinky things, because it was only ever about the sex--the two of them were there for their pleasure only. But when he was involved with his ex-girlfriend, he found he was incapable of doing even half the things he'd done with/to his FWBs with/to her--the madonna/wh*re complex. During that conversation I realized I'm the same way. When I've been in romantic relationships, I haven't been nearly as sexually open as I have with FWBs--not necessarily because I only see the FWB as a sex object, but because I have this fear that my boyfriend will see me as a slut if I tell him I want to do this or that. As a result, it's no wonder that I've had more FWB situations than romantic relationships. I know now that this is a problem--if I can't trust a guy I'm romantically involved with to not think I'm a slut, then clearly I shouldn't be dating him. What can I do?
dazzle22 Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 You have to reveal yourself slowly and with little hints of things early in a relationship to see if the guy is as open minded about these things as you are, and not reveal your hand, in order to get a true idea of his thinking. If he says, "I could never date a girl who did....blah blah blah" in the past, or who wanted to do blah blah blah, then you have your answer. You will not change his mindset, so look for someone who shares your perspective. I think guys tend to be fairly "set" in their minds as to a woman's past and what is ok with them, and you won't change it.
Author tigressA Posted February 22, 2010 Author Posted February 22, 2010 It's not even necessarily that I've dated guys who have said "I'd never want to be with someone who did this or that". I tend to have this inherent fear of judgment--I just plain tend to not trust guys I'm dating to accept my sexual desires or desire similar things, so I don't voice them, and therefore my sex life when I'm in a romantic relationship isn't nearly as good as it is with someone with whom it's all about the sex and nothing else. It doesn't help that I'm very desiring of sex. I cheated in my last relationship, which lasted nearly 2 years, with a former FWB. I don't really trust myself to remain faithful in a relationship if my sex life is unsatisfying, yet I can't open up to someone I'm supposed to be forming a deep emotional bond with.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 I am the opposite -- I don't get kinky unless I really care about the guy, because I have to trust him to do wilder things. I have encountered some degree of shame about sex from every single guy I've had sex with, from "oral sex is dirty" to "blow jobs are degrading for women" to "I'm scared I'm a pervert because I like to watch you masturbate". Somehow, I've never had any shame about my sexuality, and I try to educate these men on the fact that there's nothing to be ashamed about. If it feels good and everyone's on board, there's no problem. Sex is a natural and beautiful thing. I think my openness, confidence, and lack of shame makes my partner feel more comfortable with his sexuality, too. So, I think the solution here is to get comfortable with and embrace all facets of your sexuality. A compatible partner for you will not judge you for being you.
Author tigressA Posted February 22, 2010 Author Posted February 22, 2010 So, I think the solution here is to get comfortable with and embrace all facets of your sexuality. A compatible partner for you will not judge you for being you. Yep. There's no use wondering if I've "thrown away" past relationships by not being open and comfortable with my sexuality, but I need to do that now if I want to be in a relationship wherein all my needs are met and I can trust myself to remain sexually faithful. I've only just begun to realize how important being sexually satisfied is to me. I feel like it's so important that I find myself willing to relegate myself to relationships where emotional intimacy is typically verboten, because those are the situations in which I bloom sexually. However, when I'm in a relationship like that, I can and do get deeply attached.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 I relate. I really would rather be alone than be in a relationship with mediocre sex. Healthy expression of sexuality is that important to me. I see women who are sexually and emotionally liberated as the Holy Grail for men. And women like us aren't going to be satisfied with anything less than sexually and emotionally liberated men.
BG1985 Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 I am the opposite -- I don't get kinky unless I really care about the guy, because I have to trust him to do wilder things. I have encountered some degree of shame about sex from every single guy I've had sex with, from "oral sex is dirty" to "blow jobs are degrading for women" to "I'm scared I'm a pervert because I like to watch you masturbate". Somehow, I've never had any shame about my sexuality, and I try to educate these men on the fact that there's nothing to be ashamed about. If it feels good and everyone's on board, there's no problem. Sex is a natural and beautiful thing. I think my openness, confidence, and lack of shame makes my partner feel more comfortable with his sexuality, too. So, I think the solution here is to get comfortable with and embrace all facets of your sexuality. A compatible partner for you will not judge you for being you. You've had boyfriends who thought it was degrading for YOU to give THEM blow jobs? Most of my friends have girlfriends who refuse to give blow jobs. My most recent girlfriend gave blow jobs, but they weren't really that great. However my friends were still jealous. I'd love it if my girlfriend/wife would be kinky with me. That's not a turn off at all. Isn't sex supposed to be fun?
meerkat stew Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 Would be distraught to put it mildly if I ever found out a GF was more sexually free with FWB than with me. Then again, if I ever found out that the "FWB" relationship concept had been a frequent recurring habit in my GF's life, we'd be done anyway.
dazzle22 Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 You must have some subconscious psychological block that is causing you to split like this. Any idea what it is? Things a parent said about sexuality perhaps?
Author tigressA Posted February 22, 2010 Author Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) It's nothing a parent/family member said. Actually neither of my parents said anything outwardly against sex, other than that it's something important and that I should wait until I'm ready, etc. I think perhaps I use not being open with my sexuality/desires in order to head off too deep an attachment to someone. I had one FWB relationship wherein the sex was amazing, and we were also really great friends too--we hung out a lot, had things in common, etc--so I ended up falling in love with him, and rather strongly. I carried a torch for him for over 2 years while we both dated other people; it was emotionally exhausting, I have a few threads on here about it. However, with my first FWB, the sex was great but he wasn't the kind of guy I'd date; I wasn't his relationship type either, and that prevented any deeper feelings from developing. I still say that was the best time I ever had. I also, in my multi-dating endeavors at the end of last year, met a guy online who I clicked with ridiculously in person. It didn't take long for us to get physical, though we didn't have sex, and since everything was so on point with him, of course I started falling for him even though he wasn't into being exclusive with anyone, at least for awhile. Great sex + great emotional/intellectual connection = me falling fast and hard, and historically that hasn't proven to work out well for me. It's like I'd rather have one or the other in order to avoid being burned. Edited February 22, 2010 by tigressA
Ruby Slippers Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 You've had boyfriends who thought it was degrading for YOU to give THEM blow jobs? Most of my friends have girlfriends who refuse to give blow jobs. My most recent girlfriend gave blow jobs, but they weren't really that great. He told me he wouldn't let his high school gf blow him because he was raised to think it was degrading. Catholic. Being strongly free-thinking, I often attract guys from oppressive, guilt-heavy religious backgrounds because they are trying to break out of that mind trap, and someone like me helps inspire that. I love oral in both directions, just as much as any other sexual activity, and have been surprised to learn that this is pretty exceptional, especially among women.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 Great sex + great emotional/intellectual connection = me falling fast and hard, and historically that hasn't proven to work out well for me. It's like I'd rather have one or the other in order to avoid being burned. Yes, I understand this, too. Also, I find that it's very difficult to have a strong connection in both areas (sexual and emotional) with one person. Typical is that the sex is amazing and the emotional connection isn't there, or the emotional connection is strong and the sex is weak or mediocre. I've only had a good level of connection on BOTH in two of my relationships -- and both of those guys seemed pretty far from being ready for a real commitment with one woman. Maybe they never will be. And I am much happier being "the one that got away" than the woman they take for granted.
Author tigressA Posted February 22, 2010 Author Posted February 22, 2010 I've only had a good level of connection on BOTH in two of my relationships -- and both of those guys seemed pretty far from being ready for a real commitment with one woman. This is EXACTLY what's happened to me. Frustrating. There is a guy I've been seeing for a couple of months and while we click well emotionally/intellectually, the sexual side has taken awhile to heat up. It's getting better and better, though--I'm working on opening up more with him. He's had very few sexual experiences prior to meeting me, so I'm finding that his mind isn't set on a whole lot, which is good.
BG1985 Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Overly judgmental guys are the reason these girls feel more sexual freedom outside of a relationship than in one.
meerkat stew Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Overly judgmental guys are the reason these girls feel more sexual freedom outside of a relationship than in one. I personally don't know ANY guys who have hangups or would express judgments of the type described earlier in the thread. Most of my friends, self excluded, will do almost anything she wants or press for anything they want immediately. I prefer the first few times to be "getting to know you" as opposed to "pulling out all the stops," but would never discourage or judge what she wanted verbally. I don't know any men idiotic enough to stifle a woman's kinks on the front end. There are some things I won't do at all like scat play, golden showers, or things that involve drawing blood or breaking skin, and others such as extreme humiliation/torture, extreme bondage, etc., that I would not press for myself, but if she wanted them, would hope there would be some "getting comfortable" time under the bridge before she wanted those. Most of my friends are more liberal, but don't consider myself a prude either.
meerkat stew Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 I have encountered some degree of shame about sex from every single guy I've had sex with, from "oral sex is dirty" to "blow jobs are degrading for women" to "I'm scared I'm a pervert because I like to watch you masturbate". Do you live in Salt Lake City or do all your prospecting in a mosque? No idea where you have found these guys as they are most certainly -not- the norm.
JohnP82 Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 I would be pretty angry if I found out my girlfriend was more sexually open with randoms or fwb that with me. I would probably dump her.
tami-chan Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Some men have this double standard going...there are women they "respect and love" and these are the woman they marry and also the women they do not do "nasty, freaky sex" with. Then there are the women they want to see do "whorish, slutty" things with...they are "playthings".... At least, that's what my exH said to me...when he was trying to explain to me why he was a big cheat....apparently, I was his "pure, beautiful angel'-he couldn't possibly ask me to do "those" things-he respected me too much!!!!!! or...did he just do me in big time? ! anyway, if that thinking is common in the male culture, it is no wonder that some women would rather be a 'madonna" in a relationship as opposed to a "whore" in an ONS or FWB.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Do you live in Salt Lake City or do all your prospecting in a mosque? No idea where you have found these guys as they are most certainly -not- the norm. Do you think men talk to you and amongst themselves about sex the same way they talk to women about sex (and behave) in private, especially when in a close, loving, honest relationship? Just because a man will push for kink in a new, not-close relationship doesn't mean he doesn't have any shame around his sexuality. In fact, some people have meaningless sex expressly because of their shame about sex.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 anyway, if that thinking is common in the male culture, it is no wonder that some women would rather be a 'madonna" in a relationship as opposed to a "whore" in an ONS or FWB. Yes. Every woman has a little bit of the mother (light) and a little bit of the whore (dark) in her somewhere. Some lean clearly in one direction, but no woman is all good or bad, just as no man is all good guy or bad boy. If you don't get this, you'll never understand the opposite sex (or people, period).
Woggle Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 I think a lot of this attitude from some men is a misguided attempt to protect themselves. They feel that a sexually open woman is more likely to be a feminist type and therefore more likely to cheat or treat the relationship as disposable if they get involved. I see where it comes from but it is very misguided.
Author tigressA Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 Some men have this double standard going...there are women they "respect and love" and these are the woman they marry and also the women they do not do "nasty, freaky sex" with. Then there are the women they want to see do "whorish, slutty" things with...they are "playthings".... anyway, if that thinking is common in the male culture, it is no wonder that some women would rather be a 'madonna" in a relationship as opposed to a "whore" in an ONS or FWB. See, I don't like being the madonna in a relationship, because I don't get nearly as much sexual satisfaction out of it. I feel repressed--and it's really my own fault because it's me who's afraid of being judged by a guy I'm supposed to trust and who likely wouldn't see me negatively if I were sexually open anyway. I'd much prefer to be the whore . Seriously though--that's why I've had more FWB situations than full-fledged relationships...it really comes down to trust issues. I'm not a very trusting person. The deeper my feelings get for someone, the less I trust them to not judge/hurt me. I've talked to the guy I'm currently seeing about this issue--described it the same way I did in my initial post. It was a pretty big breakthrough for me. He took it really well, though perhaps it's because our status is generally unclear. Not sure how he would've taken it if he were my honest-to-goodness boyfriend. I'm not sure I would've even told him if he were my boyfriend.
lino Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 I was talking with a guy friend of mine the other day about our attitudes toward sex and dating. He told me that when he was in FWB situations, he was completely free sexually, indulged in a lot of kinky things, because it was only ever about the sex--the two of them were there for their pleasure only. But when he was involved with his ex-girlfriend, he found he was incapable of doing even half the things he'd done with/to his FWBs with/to her--the madonna/wh*re complex. During that conversation I realized I'm the same way. When I've been in romantic relationships, I haven't been nearly as sexually open as I have with FWBs--not necessarily because I only see the FWB as a sex object, but because I have this fear that my boyfriend will see me as a slut if I tell him I want to do this or that. As a result, it's no wonder that I've had more FWB situations than romantic relationships. I know now that this is a problem--if I can't trust a guy I'm romantically involved with to not think I'm a slut, then clearly I shouldn't be dating him. What can I do? I guess kinky means different things to different people. I am in a friends with benefits situation and the sex I have with her is no more or less kinky than I've had with girls who I was involved with in the past and that I considered to be serious girlfriends. It will remain so with any girl I possibly get serious with or even marry and have kids with (if I'm lucky!) in the future. I cheated in my last relationship, which lasted nearly 2 years, with a former FWB If I was involved with you and I somehow found out about this happening in your past then I would definitely think not so nice things about you and more than likely leave you. Not because you are very sexually open but simply because if you've cheated on a past boyfriend with a former FWB, how can I be sure you wouldn't do it to me? Would be distraught to put it mildly if I ever found out a GF was more sexually free with FWB than with me. Me too! I would be pretty angry if I found out my girlfriend was more sexually open with randoms or fwb that with me. I would probably dump her. Me too again! Some men have this double standard going...there are women they "respect and love" and these are the woman they marry and also the women they do not do "nasty, freaky sex" with. Then there are the women they want to see do "whorish, slutty" things with...they are "playthings".... At least, that's what my exH said to me...when he was trying to explain to me why he was a big cheat....apparently, I was his "pure, beautiful angel'-he couldn't possibly ask me to do "those" things-he respected me too much!!!!!! or...did he just do me in big time? ! anyway, if that thinking is common in the male culture, it is no wonder that some women would rather be a 'madonna" in a relationship as opposed to a "whore" in an ONS or FWB. So are you trying to say that some women act the way they do sexually (be it a 'madonna' or 'whore') simply because of what thinking is common in male culture? Silly me, I thought women had brains of their own and could control how they have sex and who they have it with... I guess once again it's mans fault for what women do and the consequences that follow... I should have known better.
Author tigressA Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 If I was involved with you and I somehow found out about this happening in your past then I would definitely think not so nice things about you and more than likely leave you. Not because you are very sexually open but simply because if you've cheated on a past boyfriend with a former FWB, how can I be sure you wouldn't do it to me? Well, that's you, but that's good to know, even though I have no clue who you are. Thanks for the info .
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