calazhage Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 I think this is perhaps my biggest beef with dating.. A man meets a woman and they hit it off.. Over the course of time the relationship becomes sexual. Now how is the man to proceed at this point? He can either: A. Express his feelings freely and openly, which in an ideal and healthy world would be greatly appreciated by his love interest. I mean isn't that the point of dating? Acquiring and giving love? B. After becoming sexual holding back, and repressing feelings.. Say some nice things, but always balance this with being a bit aloof, mysterious, unnattainable etc, to manipulate the woman into having and keeping interest. A man expressing his real feelings in this society would make himself seem "weak, needy, 'stalkerish', doesn't have a life, unstable, not a catch " etc. Recently I started dating a South American and I feel 18 again.. Once sex occured we became a "couple", and we exchange feelings freely and openly..It did take me a while to get used to this as for years I have been thinking of games that must be played to keep a woman interested. Games such as how to act aloof, trying not to call too much, or not calling enough, never mentioning love, etc etc. I also notice self help gurus teaching how to dismiss women and treat them like crap is becoming a huge industry, as that seems to yield the best results. Sad.
bayouboi Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 Let's breed with the South Americans, then. Maybe we can breed out the bad eggs we find in North America!
phineas Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 If you gotta play games with a woman & act like a jerk to keep her interested then your just prolonging the inevitable.
mem11363 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 Almost all women respond negatively to YOU loving them more than they love you. If you start showing a lot more love/affection/etc to her than she does to you - things will go south very quickly. I think this is perhaps my biggest beef with dating.. A man meets a woman and they hit it off.. Over the course of time the relationship becomes sexual. Now how is the man to proceed at this point? He can either: A. Express his feelings freely and openly, which in an ideal and healthy world would be greatly appreciated by his love interest. I mean isn't that the point of dating? Acquiring and giving love? B. After becoming sexual holding back, and repressing feelings.. Say some nice things, but always balance this with being a bit aloof, mysterious, unnattainable etc, to manipulate the woman into having and keeping interest. A man expressing his real feelings in this society would make himself seem "weak, needy, 'stalkerish', doesn't have a life, unstable, not a catch " etc. Recently I started dating a South American and I feel 18 again.. Once sex occured we became a "couple", and we exchange feelings freely and openly..It did take me a while to get used to this as for years I have been thinking of games that must be played to keep a woman interested. Games such as how to act aloof, trying not to call too much, or not calling enough, never mentioning love, etc etc. I also notice self help gurus teaching how to dismiss women and treat them like crap is becoming a huge industry, as that seems to yield the best results. Sad.
Johnny M Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 I also notice self help gurus teaching how to dismiss women and treat them like crap is becoming a huge industry, as that seems to yield the best results. Sad. Yes, very sad. Unfortunately, it works. The idea that you have to treat women dismissively in order to get them interested goes against every fiber of my being, but regrettably, I am forced to engage in that kind of behavior because it works much - and I mean MUCH - more effectively than being nice and kind to them. I have always wondered why women thought that men enjoyed the chase or wanted a "challenge". I have now come to the realization that these are the tricks that women themselves respond to positively, so by extension, they assume that men think the same way (which is not true). Men have been taught to believe that women want to be treated well, but the truth of the matter is that women want to experience strong emotions (a.k.a. drama).
make me believe Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 I guess my boyfriend did all of the "wrong" things when we first started dating then, but it sure worked for us! He was ALWAYS upfront about his feelings for me (and vice versa), there was no game playing, and that is how I prefer it. If a guy acts aloof or uninterested in me, then I am going to assume he IS uninterested and I will move on. The game playing that goes on today is ridiculous. Everyone tries to hide their feelings for fear of looking too clingy, but imo there is nothing wrong with expressing interest in somebody. You don't have to settle for women who want to play games, you know.
Ruby Slippers Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 Games such as how to act aloof, trying not to call too much, or not calling enough, never mentioning love, etc etc. If a guy does this, I dump him. This approach might get a guy sex for a while, but it certainly doesn't promote real love.
Woggle Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 It's a sad reality but the more you love a woman the less she loves you. These same women then turn around and wonder why men don't want to give as much emotionally.
shadowplay Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 It's a sad reality but the more you love a woman the less she loves you. These same women then turn around and wonder why men don't want to give as much emotionally. BS. It entirely depends on the woman.
Wallace1 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 As much as I hate to say it, I agree with OP's analysis. Every woman I've been exclusive with has pushed me to do so, and every time I'm the one that asks for it, her interest has inevitably shut down. I'm not saying I act aloof, disinterested, or play games as an alternative, but being the initiator on moving past the dating/hooking up stage has proven disastrous.
soulm8 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 IMO, the main problem is that women, generally speaking, have no clue how to maintain a healthy, balanced relationship once she gets into one. - We're brainwashed into thinking that Prince Charming will come along and sweep us off our feet and live happily ever after. - We're brainwashed into thinking we have to play hard to get because men need and want a challenge... it makes us his "prize". - We're brainwashed into thinking we cannot "nag". On the other hand, men are generally brainwashed into thinking that once he finds himself a mate, all he has to do is "love" her and provide for his family. Keeping your love alive is ensuring open communication and emotional connectedness. Sadly, both men and women fall into the trap of allowing boredom and resentments to build over time. Issues need to be dealt with as they come up so that both parties are always on the same page and growing together. Addressing issues in a healthy, respectful way is not nagging, and will keep a relationship honest and thriving.
Katherineos123 Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 Im gonna have to agree with Shadow... It definitely depends on the woman... I would be ECSTATIC if the guy Im currently dating asked me to be his girlfriend, I wouldnt find it weak or emasculating at all... And at times, he DOES seem sort of mysterious, and that CAN be both intriguing and frustrating, but in person hes very interested in me, and very affectionate. Maybe he's playing by the tried and true rules that Calazhage originally posted... Hmmm...
meerkat stew Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 BS. It entirely depends on the woman. Agree totally, 1:5 women (approximately IME) don't respond in the childish cat-string way that OP describes. It's the other 80% who do, though, that OP seems to be talking about. So the choice for men is either be open and hope he's dealing with a 20%er or be an ass and hope he is dealing with an 80%er. Which way would you bet?
rina_r Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 Almost all women respond negatively to YOU loving them more than they love you. If you start showing a lot more love/affection/etc to her than she does to you - things will go south very quickly. Thats mind games of immature people. From the same chapter as not calling earlier tha 3 days after 1st date etc. Thankfully there are great people left who dont play them.
alphamale Posted February 18, 2010 Posted February 18, 2010 I also notice self help gurus teaching how to dismiss women and treat them like crap is becoming a huge industry, as that seems to yield the best results. Sad. some women like to be treated badly....especially if they are young and good looking
Author calazhage Posted February 19, 2010 Author Posted February 19, 2010 Thats mind games of immature people. From the same chapter as not calling earlier tha 3 days after 1st date etc. Thankfully there are great people left who dont play them. I think no matter what anyone says, if you meet a girl and you are very into her, and you even start having sex with her, you still must "hold back", for lack of a term, or in this society the man will be viewed as needy, not a good catch, etc. So for example, if I am dating and sleeping with an American girl, me being busy or MIA for a day or 2 (sometimes even a week or 2) raises my value.. I say "I was busy", she missed me, then she seemingly likes me more..This type of "mystery" seems vitale to keep her interested. Of course this is hard to do when you really like a woman. If I go MIA for a day or 2 with my South American girl, there is nothing good about this at all. I jokingly said I would and she said something like "If you ever do not contact me for 2 days, you will not hear from me for 2 months" So the latter seems more natural to me. It makes me feel as though I am important, the relationship is important, etc and love can grow.. I can understand the rules. Acting like I am too busy would lead to me being dumped.. Acting like I am too busy for the American girl makes her see me as valuable, and she likes me even more..
Citizen Erased Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 It's a sad reality but the more you love a woman the less she loves you. These same women then turn around and wonder why men don't want to give as much emotionally. Actually, I'd have to say it's a lot easier to fall in love with someone, and remain that way, knowing how the feel about you.
stillafool Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Recently I started dating a South American and I feel 18 again.. Once sex occured we became a "couple", and we exchange feelings freely and openly..It did take me a while to get used to this as for years I have been thinking of games that must be played to keep a woman interested. Games such as how to act aloof, trying not to call too much, or not calling enough, never mentioning love, etc etc. I think it's great you found a gf and you are in love. It is always best to be in a relationship where you can be yourself and feel your best.
stillafool Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I think no matter what anyone says, if you meet a girl and you are very into her, and you even start having sex with her, you still must "hold back", for lack of a term, or in this society the man will be viewed as needy, not a good catch, etc. So for example, if I am dating and sleeping with an American girl, me being busy or MIA for a day or 2 (sometimes even a week or 2) raises my value.. I say "I was busy", she missed me, then she seemingly likes me more..This type of "mystery" seems vitale to keep her interested. Of course this is hard to do when you really like a woman. If I go MIA for a day or 2 with my South American girl, there is nothing good about this at all. I jokingly said I would and she said something like "If you ever do not contact me for 2 days, you will not hear from me for 2 months" So the latter seems more natural to me. It makes me feel as though I am important, the relationship is important, etc and love can grow.. I can understand the rules. Acting like I am too busy would lead to me being dumped.. Acting like I am too busy for the American girl makes her see me as valuable, and she likes me even more.. Oh my goodness, I thought you had met the South American girl and was making her your gf. Now I read that you are screwing around on her for some American girl (and you hate American women)? You see what I mean? Why should any girl be faithful? Grow up and stop playing games. Sheesh! OMG:sick:
sagetalk Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 Almost all women respond negatively to YOU loving them more than they love you. If you start showing a lot more love/affection/etc to her than she does to you - things will go south very quickly. You have experience with women, and you hit the nail on the head. When you start to show emotions to women at their pace or greater, many of them will loose interest and find a knuckle dragger that just want to feel her up.
sagetalk Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 As much as I hate to say it, I agree with OP's analysis. Every woman I've been exclusive with has pushed me to do so, and every time I'm the one that asks for it, her interest has inevitably shut down. I'm not saying I act aloof, disinterested, or play games as an alternative, but being the initiator on moving past the dating/hooking up stage has proven disastrous. Exact same experience here. But when I act mysterious, it's another ballpark altogether .
Tommyj Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I agree with you about the stupid games that are played here in the US. I had began to think women here just didn't like me at all so I started looking else where. I got so tired of those catch me if you can lines or if you're lucky ones . I married a woman I met in Brazil last December and have never been happier in my life. I didn't need to play goofy games with her I just told her how I felt.
hats Posted February 20, 2010 Posted February 20, 2010 I think a big mistake that people make is that they assume that people are capable of receiving an unlimited amount of love and affection. But the reality is that affection is like food. We all need and want a steady amount, and if we aren't getting enough we start to feel hungry, if we are getting too much we start to feel sick. I think what often happens is that nice guys/girls keep giving, and then once their partner is "full" and starts pulling away, they interpret it as rejection because they were nice ("Girls/Guys only like jerks/bitches!"). Or maybe that they weren't nice enough ("men/women are never satisfied! Nothing is good enough!")" Or maybe that they weren't nice in the right way ("Men/Women can never be understood! Men/Women don't know what they want!") And they try all sorts of things to get their partner more interested in them again, which just makes them feel even more smothered. But really all you needed to do was to give them some space and wait for their need for your affection to build up again. If you're patient and attentive he/she will let you know when this is. FWIW, I think it's pretty unhealthy to buy into the "game" mentality. Relationships should be about cooperation, not trying to outgame each other.
Author calazhage Posted February 20, 2010 Author Posted February 20, 2010 I agree with you about the stupid games that are played here in the US. I had began to think women here just didn't like me at all so I started looking else where. I got so tired of those catch me if you can lines or if you're lucky ones . I married a woman I met in Brazil last December and have never been happier in my life. I didn't need to play goofy games with her I just told her how I felt. Congrats Tommy, mine is Brazilian too. I think in America some type of "the less you care" attitude works the best. I know guys who actually feel the best idea is to date a woman that is way more into them than they are into her, so they can naturally not care too much, which keeps her interested. I have dated so many women with "walls", that i am shocked women still exist that can express feelings spontaneously, and be receptive to the same, without getting "turned off" because the guy sleeping with them is very interested.
nddb Posted February 20, 2010 Posted February 20, 2010 Sadly and regrettably, what the OP said is true for a large majority of women in my past. Showing your feelings at a greater pace than her or be too open to acknowledge that you are smitten is a quick expressway to "I love you but I am not in love with you," followed by "let's be friends." This is of course the same girl who complained that she's tired of men who are emotionally unavailable. It is as if the girl is saying "he's too desperate to get me; he must not be able to get anyone else. Desperate guy." I'm glad those days are behind me.
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