Jumping into the Pool - My story

[GoodDad]

Well, I have been reading threads for advice and support without posting my story. I must say Tojaz, you have my respect man. I could really relate to your story as I gave all the love I had to give to my wife to make her happy and a good life for us and our kids. And Gunny, wow, you are one straight shooter. I hope one day to be that strong.

 

Well, My wife dropped the bomb that she wanted to move out 9 weeks ago and was done with the marriage. Not being stupid I asked if there was anyone else. She also told me there was someone she was interested in at work, but all they had done was flirt and she didn't want to be a cheater and she realized it was wrong and she needed to get out of her marriage first if she was going to do that. Typical story. Since then it has died off with the OM, as he wasn't interested in her since she is married, though she still is attracted to him I just found out.

 

Anyway, the backstory...

 

We met online about 5 1/2 years ago. She had a son from a previous marriage who was 5 at the time. We dated long distance, I eventually moved to her city and we dated, then lived together and I asked her to marry me. We have a 3 year old daughter together and I love them both dearly. I treat my stepson like he is my own as his dad is a piece of work in a lot of ways and not a good parent. After her bad first marriage she was so happy to meet a good guy like me that loved and cherished her...

 

We bought our dream house 3 years ago and both have good jobs, and a lot of debt that modern life can bring.

 

I love my wife and did so much to make her happy, similar to a Tojaz story, but I won't go into all the details yet. I just loved her so much and wanted to make her happy that I think I subsumed myself into the relationship too much and lost too much independence. Then I resented that we weren't working through our issues and instead of getting counseling we put it off too long. Our communication suffered and I withdrew from her more than I realized I was doing. I had no idea how unhappy she was though this last year. My wife is very good at putting on a "happy front" as she calls it. It didn't help that I put on a lot of weight as well. She said she didn't care and loved me as I was, for the great dad, amazing man, good friend, lover, all the rest. She wasn't being completely honest with me about it, when she told me she was done she admitted how much the weight bothered her and of course it wasn't attractive. But, that wasn't her fault. I put on the weight and should have done something about it sooner even though I am now. Her wanting to leave hit me in the face like a splash of cold water. I begged and pleaded to give us a chance and basically did all the things they say don't do. She agreed to MC though she said it was still over.

 

I convinced her not to move out, but we do seperate bedrooms. Except she sleept in ours alot, but I can only blame myself on that as I should put my foot down if I don't want her in there. We went to MC and they said to give it 90 days to see if it truly wasn't salvageable. So we have been in martial counseling now for 9 weeks and it has been a roller coaster. Two steps forward, one step back. She stopped wearing her wedding ring day one, put it back on when the guy rejected her a week later, and then took it off again ever since a week after that. She is trying to keep one foot in the marriage one foot out. She says she is confused now and torn, because I am making all these changes, lost a ton of weight through diet and exercise, and getting stronger mentally. I realized I was sleepwalking through my life and marriage. I was awake now and never want to go back to sleep again. I want it to work out with my wife, but even if it doesn't. I am not stopping getting healthy and fit for me and my daughter and am well on my way.

 

My wife about 6 months ago, got a trainer got in the best shape of her life and I was so proud of her, what did she do then? She started having an emotional attachment to this guy at work and got attracted to him and that is when she realized she wanted out of our relationship. She says she didn't cheat physically, and I have checked up since and don't think she did, based on a lot of things, and I'm embarrased to admit, some snooping I did, but there was definitely flirting going on until the guy finally stopped it due to the fact she was "married". Lucky me, if he hadn't I'm sure my wife would be gone. I found out they are still talking, but its mainly her trying to keep a friendship with him and him backpeddling from the crazy married lady...

 

She just doesn't seem to know what she wants. She says she is confused because I am an amazing man, a great dad, the whole package, and she doubts she will ever be able to meet someone like me again, but she cant get over the fact I pulled away from her physically, near the end our sex life was seriously suffering and she became a HD spouse and I a LD one. Our sex life was great when we got together, but suffered as I put on weight and dealing with kids, and work, we just didn't make enough time for it... The weight loss and waking up from sleepwalking through my marriage and life has put my libido in overdrive and my desire for her, and she see that but is confused now. Sometimes she feels that desire for me too and sometimes its awkward and she doesn't.

 

We are both also in independent counseling as well. So I am working on the why I shut down thing and pulled away. I am learning alot and WILL not do that again now that I realize I have an issue there. I was typical overintelligent guy, I didn't think I had a problem... I did, a big one. When I get overwhelmed in relationships I kind of shut down rather than deal with it. I don't want to be that person anymore, either with my wife or anyone else. Never again.

 

Here's were I vent a bit: So I am doing a lot better, but she is still on the fence and playing mind games with me and with herself and with the whole pretending to be single and married at the same time. It's like she is trying to open herself up to getting hit on or something. I'm not an idiot... it is just so hard. I want to do the right thing by my kids and can't imagine life without them in it full time or with my wife. I went through the desperate begging phase we all do the first week and haven't gone back there. We have had sex only once in the last 2 months, but other physical intimacy as well, but she push-pulls so much its driving me crazy.

 

She says she doesn't know how to just flip the switch back on. In her head she was done and thought it was over and never thought I would make all the changes I have made in the last 9 weeks and now she is torn and confused. She can't seem to get past she can be attracted to another person and still be married. That was fun to hear again two days after we had had sex for the first time in two months.... She also told me part of her wants the single life as she has never been out on her own as she went from her Dad's to married to me. I would think single life is past when you are 32 with 2 kids and potentially divorced twice... She has this fantasy land approach to love, that it stays intensive at all times in long term relationships. I see it as something you have to work on, especially both working with 2 kids and lots of couples drift apart. They can reconnect if she would meet me halfway. She said I was the most amazing man she had ever met, but I broke her heart... Then she is crying about losing her best friend and can't imagine me not in her life anymore.

 

When I asked her what else was out there, that its hard to meet good people like me, and I am a great person, I just got complacent in my marriage and I feel terrible about it. She said, well, I met you didn't I? It could happen again...ouch.

 

The hardest thing to deal with is that she knows in the past I was briefly married and my wife at the time had an affair with a co-worker I discovered and to have this come up again kills me.

 

I don't flirt at work. I'm married. To some people just see work as a meat market? geez

 

Anyway, The last nine weeks have been hell. I have been trying to be strong and hold it together for the kids in the hopes we can salvage our marriage and she has done so much sabotage to our relationship post bomb now I'm not sure what I want anymore. From the ring thing, to this OM thing, to everything. And she still isn't wanting to commit to actually working through all of this, though she says she is trying. It just feels like she is half in it half out, and I either have to lump it or I have to be the one to end it...

 

I wish now I had been posting all along these last 2 months as all the interactions are running through my head right now from the past few weeks, the ups and downs. The craziness, etc... Maybe its best I didn't as they aren't much different than half the ones already out here. She is reconnecting with old exes on FB and is playing games with my mind. Maybe it can work out, maybe it cant, etc. I am so frustrated!

 

As someone who has been here before...literally, I know how most these stories end. This OM will change his mind and she will be off to the races, or it will be someone else. Once the spouse says they are done, most times they are. She still says I love you, but some of her actions are not the actions of someone who loves another person. She has said everything but the actual line, I love you but Im not in love with you. I guess in some regards she has, even if those werent the exact words.

 

I am trying to focus on my kids as they are about to be in a world of hurt I think...

 

Oh that was the other thing that ticked me off. She said, the kids would be fine, um our stepson wasn't just FINE after her first divorce, he stabalized after she met me and we created a stable home for him. Who knows how he will handle it this time. He already has some anger management issues and trauma from dealing with his Dad whose life is imploding right now as well. As for my daughter, it breaks my heart to think of her shuttled back and forth missing mommy and daddy. She is so happy right now and to think of that happiness taken away and the only home she has ever known.

 

I'm not stupid, I know they will survive, but its not going to be the same for them for years and the fact that she can be so non-chalant about the kids makes me wonder if I ever knew her at all...

 

This morning she says she doesn't know how long she can wait for the feelings to come back. She used to want me all day every day and thats just not there anymore, but she is confused and part of her wants this to work and part of her doesn't and she doesn't think its fixable.

 

She has said this enough times now Im taking the hint. I may be slow thanks to my Publik Skool education, but I am no dummy. I can see the writing on the wall. We have about a month left in our 3 month agreement not to split with the marital counselor and I feel her putting more walls up and getting ready...

 

Also, I am getting to the point of realizing why the hell do I want to be with someone who doesn't want me 100%? That was why she wanted to leave the marriage, whats wrong with me that I would want that. And the whole still attracted to another man crap, but still attracted to me, what are we in high school? And she reconnected with her old boyfriend, he is in a relationship now, but excuse me, my marriage is on the rocks too but I am not looking up old girlfriends... All the crap is getting to me... and now I don't know what I want as I am just the shmuck who is trying to save his marriage and family...

 

 

I am not even sure why I am posting now when I didn't before except I finally thought I have to start somewhere...and at the rate its devolving downhill I am probably going to need a place to vent if it all goes to pot and figure we can all help each other a bit, whether it works out or doesn't...and maybe I can offer support to others as well, but seeing how much a mess I made (and my wife too) of our marriage, Im not sure I would trust my advice... Plus, I may sound calmish now, I am sure if it all devolves I will be an emotional wreck like everyone else at the beginning of a divorce...

 

Hanging in there for now,

 

GD

Edited November 19, 2009 by GoodDad

[phineas]

I've been in the "I don't know what I want" zone. in my case, she was still cheating.

 

If she is still thinking of another man it's useless in my opinion.

 

If I hadn't convinced myself my wife wasn't sleeping with another man I could of been devorced & moving on with my life.

 

Instead my marriage dragged out & subjected my kids to yelling & screaming & crying.

 

I can't tell you what to do, but I wish the second I found out I would of kicked her out & had her served.

 

I say that now though. I didn't have the strength to do that before. Not many do.

[Gunny376]

Were you to do the research you would find that men peak sexually when their about eighteen.

 

Women? When they're in the late twenties to late thirties. Their nerve endings are even fully developed in their pubic area until about age 35.

 

Then there's the hormones? They're fast approaching the end to their biological clock, (menopause) and their hormones drive toward situations they normally wouldn't normally do.

 

That's why you find so many guys you age posting here. I was 33 when I went through it.

 

Now that's not to say this applies to each and every woman? Nor each and every marriage ~ but enough to warrant further research.

 

The only advice I can give you is to educate yourself, prepare to the worse, hope for the best.

 

You might want to try reading "Light Her Fire"

 

"The Five Languages of Love"

 

"Romance 101" "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and

 

"1001 More Ways To be Romantic"

 

Just don't let her know that your reading and applying what you've learned from them.

 

From what you've posted its sounds as though you might have a chance ~ if you even still want it? But you've both through the course of the day to day grind became complacent with one another and in your relationship.

 

If you do read "Light Her Fire" read Hellen's (Kreidman) follow on book "How Can We Laugh When The Kids Are Driving Us Crazy?

 

I was watching "Football Wives" on TLC last night about how college football players go from having $38 in their pocket one night to having millions in their pocket overnight when they sign with the NFL.

 

It showcases a couple, (forgot the name ~ he plays with the San Diego Chargers.

 

They were high school sweethearts, he signed as a freshman out of college.

 

They lived together, had some problems ~ with to marriage counseling before getting married ~ and continue going to do so now that they are married.

 

Not because they've still got problems? But from a pro-active stance to keep from having problems!

 

That's all day strong!

[Gunny376]

I can't tell you what to do, but I wish the second I found out I would of kicked her out & had her served.

 

I say that now though. I didn't have the strength to do that before. Not many do.

 

I didn't either back in the day, primarly because I had one children.

 

I do now!

 

I pity the fool of a woman that gives me a reason to kick her to the curb!

 

Quick, fast and in a hurry like I will.

 

For most of us it takes some work to get it into our heads that this so called "one" is the one and only & best that we can do?

 

But once you get it stuffed in there?

 

Look out!

[GoodDad]

Thanks for the reply Phineas. I have read your story. I wish I had the strength to do that too.

 

It's funny. In my first marriage as soon as I discovered the affair I was like C-ya... Filed for divorce right away.

 

This time I don't know whats different, except the kids. I think I blame myself for pulling away from her and bringing her to the point of even considering another person.

 

I think she is being genuine about being torn and the MC is helping, but at the same time I think like you do, she still shouldn't have gone there and flirted with this person.

 

She cried, said how horrible and guilty she felt. But the fact she had withdrawn that far from the marriage it was over and better to get it over with before cheating.

 

I think she doesn't know what she wants. I really am a decent person and have a lot of amazing qualities, but I hurt her by rejecting her she says.

 

I feel like I am in limboland while she figures out if she wants to give the marriage another chance.

 

Our old marriage is dead and gone. I don't want that one back either. If we can reconnect and form a new marriage I would be all for that. I just don't know how you get there.

 

But I appreciate your advice. I think everyone's situation is the same, yet different. We all get their at different rates and have to do things at our own pace.

 

I think no matter what happens, me, her, the kids will all be screaming and crying as you say....no one wins in a divorce...

[GoodDad]

LMAO!

 

After reading your posts for a bit now I knew you would shoot straight. Keep on keeping on strong.

 

Good advice. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

I hear what you are saying about the biological clock thing. Hormones are definitely an issue in my situation with my wife. She is all over the map emotionally, some due to the situation, some before and was already peaking sexually when she got in shape which put it in overdrive. I can usually keep up, or could when I was in shape, as soon as I let myself go it wasn't good. I keep kicking myself for even letting that happen. Why do we sabotage ourselves like that?

 

Thats why Im getting the Individual Counseling to figure out why I did that.

 

It just sucks. We both are good people and could be amazing together if we both work on the marriage and give it a chance.

 

I go back and forth mentally and emotionally. Of course I want my marriage to work out. Who wouldn't??? We have kids, love, and came together fell in love and have built a life together and just forgot that when real life got complicated and busy.

 

But I am a realist too and know its hard to fix these things. I could be worse off I guess. A lot of folks who are on here and would kill to have their STBX's give it 90 days of counseling to see what happens. Or to give it even a half hearted attempt.

 

As I get stronger mentally though I want more. I want the 200% attempt. I deserve that. I am worth it. man.... I sound like Stuart Smiley now...gosh darn it, Im good enough, strong enough, and people like me...geesh

 

Thanks for the book advice. I will look it up. All I do know is read these books, How to be an Adult in the Relationship, Why Marriages Succeed or Fail... whats a few more. LoL

 

GD

[Gunny376]

In the course of almost any and all human endeavour the equation of "E=r" applies, in which it takes a tremendous amount of effort (Large 'E') to obtain very little results, (small 'r')

 

But given time? The equation flips. to "e=R" in which with time, effort, practice? Large RESULTS are obtained with very little effort.

 

The reason most relationships fail these days is that given the day to day tasks of modern day living people have a tendency to forget why they got together in the first place.

 

This despite all of these modern day labor saving devices that our parents and grandparents had.

 

But the reason for these labor saving devices is so that we can do more and more and be me more productive.

 

Then there's the quest for more and more material things.

 

Our grandparents were happy just to have a TV, while it was suffice for our parents to have a color TV, now? We've got to have a 53" large screen TV.

 

The average size house in 1955 was 960' ~ now? Its 2300 square feet.

 

Factor in what I mentioned before, (which is not common knowledge) the sheer ignorance as to how to make a relationship (let alone a marriage) work ~ and its no wonder divorce is as common as it is.

 

Let me help you out with something your going to come to terms with in about ten years ~ post divorce ~ post empty nest syndrome?

 

Are you living to work? Or you working to life?

 

Do you wish you had spent more time at work? Or more time with the wive and kids?

 

Do you wish you spent less time on your "dream home?" Or do you wish you spent more quality time with your family?

 

In the book, "Crazy Time" (a book about divorce) a guy busted his butt trying to climb the corporate ladder. Finally he made it and was promoted to VP and got the corner office with the view.

 

He brought roses and champagne home to the wife to celebrate. The wife told him, "That's nice. But I just wished you had spent more time with me and the children."

 

Your single best chance of success at marriage is with the one you had children with.

 

Its statistically down hill from there, with the divorce rate increasing proportionately with each successive marriage. This of course is not an absolute ~ as nothing in human endeavour is?

 

We're all the same ~ we're all different.

 

You might want to read ~

 

"Why Men Don't Have A Clue and Women Need Another Pair of Shoes"

 

A quick and easy read.

 

A not so easy read, but very informative is

 

"Brain Sex" which explains a Hell of a lot about why people do what they do and what drives them to do it. Very relevant in your case given the wife wanting to stray ~ or at least be tempted to do so.

 

And your right ~ the old marriage is dead and gone. There's no getting it back.

 

But with determination, effort, and some hard work you may be able to resurrect from the ashes of the old marriage a new and stronger bond.

 

You say you 've been lurking here for about two months?

 

You may want to do a forum search for a poster named Ladyjane14. She doesn't post here anymore? But she was dead on when it came to relationship advice.

 

I'm not sure and certain about this, but I think she's the one Dear Abby calls when she' stumped.

[MrMayI]

welcome, gd. it sucks it's under such circumstance, right? my advice to you is to do everything YOUR way. heed the things you'll be told here, but listen to only you in the long run. i wasn't before, but i am a proponent for saving the marriage if it can be now. good luck.

[phineas]

I didn't either back in the day, primarly because I had one children.

 

I do now!

 

I pity the fool of a woman that gives me a reason to kick her to the curb!

 

Quick, fast and in a hurry like I will.

 

 

Look out!

 

I held on for the kids also.

 

I am fairly certain that when I begin dateing I will have a very low tolerance level for nonsense.

And should a bad one sneak in under the radar I am quite certain I will weather it with out too much trouble.

[GoodDad]

Thanks for the well wishes Mother May I. We have similar situations in our situations, spouses, and having a daughter. But you are much further along than I am.

 

It's funny that Gunny nailed the hormones thing. I was rereading that post, and realized I didn't post her age and he still nailed it. I am 37, wife is 32, daughter 3 1/2 and stepson is about to be 11.

 

It would be too easy to chalk it up to a Walk Away Wife syndrome due to age. Damn... I am doing WAYYYY to much online divorce reading. I know all the terminology. lol

 

Anyway, Thanks again for the well wishes. I know we both are hopeful it might work with our significant others, but are realists.

 

I try to be hopeful, like when she laid in bed and listed all the things she loved about me and not on when she said, maybe you were just the right guy wrong time... love hearing that 5 years into a relationship with children. As a wise man once said, something you could have mentioned a long time ago. LoL

 

Take Care,

 

GD

[dazedandconfused2008]

I just want to say that i feel for you and your family. You deserve that 200% attempt..you are worth it. You have done so much to change for the better...not just for her but for yourself. Working on a marriage is a 2 way street thought and what she does is out of your control.

 

It helps to write on here..your journey..as your writing you may find out more things about yourself as you write them out. Like you said...in our own way...our own pace.

[Gunny376]

It varies~ some women (and men) will go either side of it all?

 

Yours seems to be in the middle.

 

The hormone things isn't just about women it applies to men as well.

 

Actually more toward men than women!

 

I belive you apply the "Light Her Fire" program you will get tremoundous results?

 

I just applied some of what she suggested and got tremendous results. (For the women I would suggest "Light His Fire")

 

It really comes down to this?

 

People want to be appreciated, wanted and needed for who they are!

 

They want to be wanted, needed and appreciated for who and what they are?

 

Is that too much to ask for?

Edited November 20, 2009 by Gunny376

[tojaz]

Good Dad,

 

I just wandered into this thread before work, didn't have the tijme to finish or write a proper reply just yet.

 

You are right, our situations are similar more then you know. Heres the rest of my story from day one on LS....

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=11678678

 

Theres a lot there, but a lot of good advice was given.

Will be checking in.

TOJAZ

[floridapad]

Gooddad

 

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sucks, we all know. It sounds like you have a good handle on everything but wanted to point out a couple of things. Your wife and mine are VERY similar in this regard (your original post) "She has this fantasy land approach to love, that it stays intensive at all times in long term relationships."

 

IMHO she is very confused about her feelings because her version of love are feelings I quoted above. She is probably confused that she doesn't feel that way about you because thats all she has experienced about love and may not know how to deal with it. Of course you being practical like me, understand that love (intense or exciting feelings in her case) changes form and needs to be accepted for that. Unfortunately she is really confused and there really is nothing you can do to educate her or force her to see that unless she understands that herself. Now having said that about her I do see a bit of a difference in your views of love with hers. As you say "I see it as something you have to work on, especially both working with 2 kids and lots of couples drift apart." This is also my view but I also realized I got lazy in the relationship towards my wife and became complacent. Look back and see where the relationship changed and what ACTIONS changed between you and her towards each other. My 2 cent suggestion is this:

 

1) Drop the D-papers and force her back on her heals. She is cake eating you with this OM stuff. She has you as security but she is exploring her feelings with option B (OM). It is said that women do not leave relationships until they have found another one. Well she is searching for one that makes HER feel good (in the way she is only used to) and once option B pans out, it will become plan A and YOU will become option B. File divorce or preferably :

 

2) go to REAL MC at a weekend retreat and follow ups. The every other week stuff IMHO is crap because the wife may just be going through the motions to buy time for Option B (OM) to pan out. If she is not willing to go to the REAL type of marriage encounters and will only go to regullar MC then I'm afraid she might not be all into it and is just stringing you along.

 

She needs to learn about LT relationships and Love and that is not going to happen in typical MC and it certainly won't happen by you trying to educate her on your views of love. She needs to figure that out herself, but sometimes an intensive weekend retreat might add a kick.

 

Goodluck

[GoodDad]

Thanks Dazed for the support. And I will read up more on your thread Tojaz.

 

Up and down a bit today. I always have and still do the little things for my wife, flowers a week ago, the day before yesterday brought home starbucks for her on the way home because I knew she would appreciate some hot chocolate on a cold night. Then yesterday she was going straight from work to dinner and cocktails with the girls and they were going to a midnight showing of New Moon and she was spending the night at her friends and going to work straight from there as the movie was out at 3 and they were going to be drinking.

 

So I sent her a really funny e-card and wrote her a note telling her to enjoy the night out and I had it nailed down on the home front so she should have fun and not worry.

 

She called me after work when she was done with her IC and we talked a bit before her night began. She said she was nuts because a normal woman would appreciate all the little things I do to show I care, like the care and hot chocolate, etc, but instead she felt smothered by it, instead of just appreciating it. Not that she didn't she said.

 

I got the I just don't know how to reignite that in love feeling that she used to have all the time for me. And she was trying to figure out what she needed to get it back if it was even possible. She said her counselor told I was making a lot of positive changes so figuring out what she needed out of this marriage was what she needed to do and not to try rush a decision so hard and fast without giving things some time. She just doesn't know what to do she said, but is trying.

 

She said me being an amazing husband, best friend, father, lover all that might not be enough if it wasn't fulfilling some need in her as it was just trying to woo and win her back, and while all that had to be there, she needed something more. Something we used to have and she doesn't know if its possible to recapture, but doesn't know it isn't. (Purgatory is great isn't it???

 

So positive and negative...Unfortunately, I am married to the most impatient woman on the planet. She hates having this situation un-resolved and its driving her nuts I can tell, and me too if I really thought about it. She wants an answer now, but fixing a relationship doesn't work like that. It took us a while to get here and will take a while to get out if we even can.

 

I can understand a bit, but I'm still not sure what exactly it will take for her to recommit to wanting to be in the marriage again. I told her I didn't want to be in a relationship with someone who didn't want to be with me and I hoped we could figure it out...

 

I really need to start figuring out what I want. Right now everything is her choice in her mind, but its mine too. I just don't know what the right answer is. I wan't a new healthy marriage with her and I truly believe it could be amazing if we get there, but her back and forth back and forth wears me down as well and pushes me further away.

 

I decided to stop thinking about it for a bit and go aboutmy evening with the kiddo's, got them fed, bathed, read too, and to bed. Then relaxed and tried to not be nervous about the wife being out all night drinking. If we were in a stable place or this thing with the co-worker hadn't happened I wouldn't have even been worried... But I am in an insecure place in our relationship, she did have an inappropriate thing with another guy, etc. So I am not crazy for being a little nervous.

 

So earlier in the evening I get the I don't know how to fall back into love speech or how to want you the same way as before then as drinks flow I start getting the I love you and miss you texts. Then I get an hour and a half of dirty texting back and forth. So much for the I don't want you...

 

This morning she called and said she couldn't believe she did that, as the alcohol got to her, but it wasn't that she hadn't wanted too.

 

So positive and negative. Up and down... I just don't get how she can go from the not "IN" love with you comments to the I love you and want to do it thing. And yeah, maybe alcohol plays a bit into it. But we kissed and made out 2 nights back with no alcohol in site. Then she pulls back hard afterwards...It just makes me think she is completely confused and all over the map I guess.

 

It's odd, from reading all the stories when the potential leavers start talking about loving but not IN love type comments its usually always over, but this whole back and forth, in it and out thing is confusing me. I guess us both being in IC and MC might be making some kind of difference. I know for a fact the MC is helping a lot, even though I didn't believe in it before. I think if you get the right person it helps a ton though.

 

The only issue with MC though is we are about 9 weeks in and starting to hit a point where I'm not sure the MC knows how to help as it really is all on my spouse to either forgive me for pulling away from her during the marriage and rejecting her or not be able too. You can't make someone forgive but not forget. They have to want too and I know she isn't there yet if she ever will be. And now I have all the trust issues and bad feelings from how mean and harsh she has been the last few months to work through myself as well as her admitting she had this attraction to another person even if that was wrong. I don't think having an attraction is wrong, its acting on it thats wrong, its flirting thats wrong. It's human to look at someone of the opposite sex and think, wow, I am attracted to them. But if you are in a commited happy relationship thats the end of it. Or if you have a friendship, thats why you don't take it in an inappropriate way and thats what she did, whatever the justifications, or my fault in the matter, and I admit I had fault and rejected her and pulled away and am trying to make up for it now, but she has to forgive herself and I have to forgive her some point and trust if we did work it out it wouldn't happen again. Although at this point who the hell knows if its completely stopped. Geesh, there goes my brain in overdrive again. I keep telling myself our issues are about us, if we fix our issues it doesn't matter what else is out there because she will only want to be with me. I have to believe that right now because the alternative is to say screw it and end it aka Phineas advice and I am just not there yet...I still have hope even if that makes me a fool.

 

At the end of the day I want to say I tried everything humanly possible to make it work with my wife, I owe that to my daughter and my stepson. If she isn't putting 200% in, that will be her loss to lose me from her life.

 

Ok, gotta stop now...man, posting is addictive. Just getting it all out. I am sitting here rambling away. I wish I could get my brain to stop sometimes. Not in a suicidal way, just stop thinking so much. I have always been a super analytical person and when I have an unresolved problem my brain worries at it like a squirrell on a nut.

 

I am going to stop blurping on LS now and try to go about my day.

 

Take Care and thanks for listening to my ramble.

 

GD

[GoodDad]

Yeah, good advice. I just am not there yet but Im not stupid...

 

I know she is cake eating. Someone else gave me the same advice. I have contemplated the first option as part of me deep down feels like she is stringing me along and if this OM had been responsive she would already have been gone. But since he didn't and I did a 180 mentally and physically and put down my walls now she is confused, because she underestimate me and thought I wasn't capable of change. How could I not change when it is something this important? If I truly had understood it would come to this I probably would have changed before and woke up. Who wants to lose their wife and kids...I was a fool and just didn't realize how much I was hurting her as I thought I was just hurting myself...

 

But I know she doesn't know how to handle a LT relationship as that is perfectly clear now and she has serious baggage from her childhood and past relationships I haven't even gone into. But she seriously does, both the MC and her IC keep bringing it up to her. She needs to work through that or she is doomed to repeat this stuff....same with me I guess.

 

The weekly MC I know is helping yet I get the feeling sometimes it is being used by her to buy time. But then I thought buy time for what? Maybe as you say Florida its for an OM to come around, maybe its for her to try to get me ok with the situation. But as painful as 9 weeks straight of MC is, I can't imagine there isn't a part of her that hopes this might work, even if she is sabotaging things as our MC said, by not wearing her ring and not listing on FB that she is married, she just lists it as blank, since she recently joined FB, she didn't change it from M to that, just how she signed up. But MC went off on her about it, about how it poisons the situation and opens her up to being preyed upon this is a vulnerable time for her and us... But she said it just hurts too much to put her ring on... But I told her it hurts me worse. I searched long and hard to find the most perfect beautiful diamond for her ring and she always got so many compliments on it and how amazing it looked. I have to compartmentalize the fact she won't wear it as I still don't agree with it, as we are still married until we actually seperate or D, but I had to let it go as we were just going round and round in MC about it week after week. So all these little hurts add up people, I havent even listed them all, because if I did I would have to ask myself why I want to be with this person. All I tell myself is she is hurt by the situation too and lashing out... but I am not at her so what does that say about her vs. me as people... blah...

 

Who knows, meanwhile, she is still going to MC, for the 90 day commitment to it, we will see if she will go past that, The 90 day ends at the beginning of the year and then I guess I will find out if she is serious about trying to make this work or if she was stringing me along. I fear the latter and hope the former...

 

I will look into a weekend retreat thing. We have weddings to go to this weekend and next as well as Thanksgiving at her family to survive in-between, but who knows.

 

As to the complacent lazy thing... yes, that was me. It started going wrong as I couldn't seem to get on the same page partnership wise with her, I felt we weren't dealing with living situation equally as partners and it was all me dealing with making sure everything was taken care of. I tried to get her involved so it was more equal as we built up debt but she refused, then we would fight and not resolve things. And I built up resentment and shut down... I mean there were happy times inbetween, between us, with the kids, you name it, we had a good life, but mainly I just got lazy and complacent. She was at fault too, but for shutting down and not listening to her try to tell me she wasn't happy, she would, but then she would seem happy and I just didn't understand the mixed signals...how can such a smart person be so stupid.... I recognize now what I did and I am ashamed...

 

That is what I am working on the last few months in IC and I understand better why I did that passive agressive behavior and don't ever want to be there or do that again.

 

But yeah, the stringing along thing is there. As I mentioned in my original post I am ashamed to admit I did some snooping along the way, and saw she was still trying to keep a friendship going with this other person even though they werent that responsive, so maybe your right and this is all a game and Im being played... I know that. My only options are to try to make it work though or serve her and give her what she wants and let her move out and call it over.

 

I go back and forth over what the right answer is. Of course it messes with my mind that I may be being strung along. Then there are moments when it feels like she really is hopeful it might work out.

 

I have no idea what the right thing to do is and I'm taking it day by day.

 

Again, I appreciate the advice and I may regret someday not doing your first option, but their is no good alternative here, only pain for myself and my kids then moving on. As someone who has been divorced once before I remember the pain, hopelessness, fear, etc. and wish I had learned more from that first situation so I didn't screw up my second, although it was different issues and I blamed my spouse in the first one as she was a cheater and it was such a short marriage I just eventually figured it was just wrong person got married too fast. So much more to lose here with my daughter though...Thats what keeps me up at night. I tried to think what the right thing to do was, let her move out and serve her, go NC except for kids and let it go, do what I am doing and try to make it work with horrible limbo I am in now, and I was paralyzed with not knowing what to do and finally just had to go with the second option, even though I know alot of the advice I am going to get out here is going to say kick her to the curb... I don't know. Just trying to handle it at my own pace so I don't meltdown...

 

My big fear with your first option is that by doing that as stubborn as my wife is she would just go with it and I would always wonder what if we had tried to goto MC and make it work before the kids had to be dragged into the divorce mess. Like I said, I don't know what the right answer is, I just know it helps a little to type it all out and know I'm not alone.

 

I am sorry everyone who is going through this or worse in your situations. I truly wish none of us were here....

 

Take care,

 

GD

Edited November 20, 2009 by GoodDad

[Gunny376]

In his book "How Good Do You Want To Be?" Nick Sabin (Head coach of the University of Alabama ~ speaks of the difference between discipline and punishment?

 

In punishment ~ its "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY! ITS MY WAY OR THE BRIG!"

 

In discipline its exacting the punishment proportionate to achieving the desired behaviroal change.

 

Wheather that's dropping the Big "D" bomb or something else is something you're going to have to decide.

[GoodDad]

Damn Gunny, you have to be the most well read person I know. You always have a book recommendation.

 

Thanks!

[floridapad]

I hear where you are coming from GD. I have not thrown in the towel with my W yet. I want to know I did EVERYTHING possible for my family and myself, and also partly to guilt the Sh*t out of her down the road with the children (LOL). But right now I am seperated. NC doesn't work to get a person back (for long term). An enhanced form of LC perhaps. Both of them though are for your benefit as I'm sure you read (it's very true). It took me a while to realize that. I would not suggest seperating (unless she forces the issue), but don't go overboard on the good guy stuff.

 

She is in a great state of confusion over her feelings or lack there of. The more you persue the more she will run.

 

Limbo Land SUCKS. For me it was worse than starting the actual greiving process. You can only do it for so long until you go nuts.

 

If she has childhood issues and hasn't resolved them or is not willing to see how they affect her and have a light bulb go off in her head, then you may be better off moving on. My biggest fear is that if my wife "falls in love" with me without resolving her realistic expectations of love in an LT relationship, we will be back at square one in a few years, despite some of the changes I made.

 

She's looking for a "feeling" and doesn't quite get that sometimes that feeling comes from the choices that she must make. Choices to accept you for you and your imperfections, choices to magnify her admiration for your positive attributes, choices to love you, choice to stop fanatsizing about the early stages of love, choices to learn about and feel "mature" love, choices to work with the imperfections of relationships etc etc. My point is, and you know this, she needs to resolve her issues for herself and if she is not willing to do all of these things for herself and wants to take the easy path to falling in love (with out discovering herself) then she will definately end up in the same situation with her 3rd husband. She may not be one for the long haul and if she wants to walk let her go.

 

You have learned so much about yourself that you KNOW you can take it into the next relationship and thrive. You have the desire to learn more about yourself, and all of the books Gunny mentioned I'm sure are good. True self reflection with the mindset that you are changing you for YOU and making yourself better for yourself which your future spouse (be it your current one or another one). You can take that with you and she can't steal it from you.....unless of course you only made the changes for her.

[GoodDad]

She's looking for a "feeling" and doesn't quite get that sometimes that feeling comes from the choices that she must make. Choices to accept you for you and your imperfections, choices to magnify her admiration for your positive attributes, choices to love you, choice to stop fanatsizing about the early stages of love, choices to learn about and feel "mature" love, choices to work with the imperfections of relationships etc etc. My point is, and you know this, she needs to resolve her issues for herself and if she is not willing to do all of these things for herself and wants to take the easy path to falling in love (with out discovering herself) then she will definately end up in the same situation with her 3rd husband. She may not be one for the long haul and if she wants to walk let her go.

 

Man, reading that was like reading my own brain... I agree with what you said 100%, but the hard part is truly understanding that the other person needs to get there on their own. You can't make them get there and they may never get there... It sucks when you realize these things and if they would see that working out these relationship issues with a good guy who is also the father of your child and has accepted your other child as his own might make more sense than starting over.

 

But like you said, it has to be them accepting a mature love. That "Im in Love" feeling feels great at first but the true bang for the buck is a mature love with an equal partner.

 

The past two months have made me realize I never really knew her at all, I thought she was so much more mature. She has a pretty high level job, we both do, we both have post grad's. In our 30's. None of that makes a difference on emotional maturity. I guess I thought she mirrored some of mine, but that was a fallacy on my part wanting to see something that wasnt the case.

 

You may be right on the long haul and her repeating this in her next relationship if she doesn't do some self realization. That terrifies me because of the kids. My mind goes to the well if it doesn't work out, that might happen. But who the hell is she going to bring into my daughter's life.

 

She is in Love with Being in Love and is so naive in so many ways. Only been with her first husband, one brief relationship in between and then me.

 

As someone who dated their entire 20's lots of different relationships I have seen the crumbs who are out there and if it was just her, I would feel like, thats her lesson to learn if she walks, but when it involves my daughter I can't bear it. And its out of my control. And it sucks, I know there is nothing I can do about that if it comes to that, but the Big Suck is what it is...

 

But your whole post was really helpful. Thanks. It's so hard not to go overboard on the good guy stuff. I'm a good guy. I like thinking of making others happy, Im thoughtful, considerate, etc. but I hear what you are saying. Others have told me to stop being so nice to her, but I can't seem to control it. I don't mean in a doormat way, but I just wan't to do nice things for her, I always have. All during the marriage, even when we had other ups and downs its just my nature to be nice... And nice guys finish last right. LOL, I thought when I met my wife and we married, wow, nice guy wins out for once.

 

Ah well, thanks again for the reply. I appreciate it.

 

P.S.

 

The changes are for me, I want to be healthy, I want to be fit, mentally and physically. As she throws up to me all the time. Why didn't I do this 3 months ago, why did I make all the changes AFTER she said she was done and wanted to leave. Why wasn't she worth it. etc etc. I don't have an answer to that except who knows what can cause someone who is asleep to wake up. I wasn't ready then. I am awake and ready now. As if I don't wish I hadn't done this years ago either...sigh

 

GD

[mark982]

sounds like she's starting to regret a few things.

[GoodDad]

Maybe Mark, but she has been all over the map the whole time. I hate you so much, etc. I love you, Sex, no sex, back and forth.

 

Who knows. Sometimes I think it would have been better to go the route of pulling back completely. But since that was one of the issue in our marriage, that she felt rejected I guess I am trying to show her that even though she has given me reason to put my wall back up I havent. How can 2 people work it out if both of them put up high walls? I dont know anymore. Just taking it day by day at this point.

 

I guess Im a little down, feeling like the shmuck who is chasing after the woman who doesn't want him. Gotta get out of the funk, get positive I guess.

 

I just hate these artificial timeframes she puts on things. That she waited for years for me to lose weight and I never did and now that I am losing it at the biggest loser rate she doesn't know if she can wait around while I lose the rest. I have a trainer and thorough diet and excercise its melting off, but I still have a ways to go. Its going to be at least another few months till I am at my fighting weight where I was when we met. I look at it though as I am on a journey to finding myself again, hopefully shell be there at the end of it and if not I will be that much stronger and ready to take on the world.

 

But thats just an excuse on her part I know. Now that she sees me losing and sticking to it, saying she doesn't know if she can wait a few more months to see if the marriage is salvageable. Whats that vs. a lifetime. I need to keep the realities in my head. Maybe she will come around and make the changes SHE needs to make to be a better person or maybe she will keep making everything my fault. It makes the person wanting to leave feel so much better when its all the other person's fault. Otherwise how do they deal with the guilt of their actions... or for justification to break up a family.

 

As someone else said it so well. LIMBOLAND sucks...

 

Now I get to go to her niece's wedding tomorrow and I know its going to be hard to go to a wedding under the circumstances, with an ambivalent confused wife. If I was a stronger man I would have just not gone.

 

But that wouldn't have helped chances of reconcillation.

 

Bah, I don't even know what Im saying anymore. What do I know whats right or not right. I'm like a blind man fumbling through a cave trying not to get cut on the rocks.

 

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

 

Take care,

 

GD

[Gunny376]

For a more realistic modern day perspective as to what true love is? Read the Feb 2006 edition of National Geographic Magazine for the article titled "Love, The Chemical Reaction."

 

The article goes into why people go from that initial crazy in love feeling to falling out of love to why some couple develop a "mature love"

 

They did brain scans of couples that said they were in love. They're almost identical to people who suffer from OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)

 

The bio-chemicals in the brain that make us feel "in love" and the receptors in the brain are the same ones that crack cocaine and crystal meth "plug" into, producing pheromones (that rush one gets when sexually climaxing ~ which can be caused by other things that stimulate the senses ~ such as chocolate for some people particularly women.

 

Except lacking the induction of such outside influences? The 'in-love" feeling wears off in as little as three months to six years. The length of time it takes for the women to become pregnant (at a minimum) to the child learning how to feed itself, walk, talk, etc.

 

This is Mother Nature's way of ensuring the continuation of the species. In as much it is man's nature to 'sow his seed' its a woman's nature (speaking in broad general terms) to collect it. And it almost anyone's nature to pass on their DNA. Its instinctive. This all takes place in the ~

 

Hypothalamus- part of the diencephalon, ventral to the thalamus. The structure is involved in functions including homeostasis, emotion, thirst, hunger, circadian rhythms, and control of the autonomic nervous system. In addition, it controls the pituitary.

 

All to say your wife may literally have no choice ~ and counseling may not be the solution, because her actions are being driven by bio-chemicals (I didn't say hormones) or a combination of both (brain bio-chemicals combined with hormones)

 

Factoring out historical and modern day concepts, (and myths, fallacies, and outright lies) about relationships, marriage, etc.

 

On a basic survival and passing on one's DNA, on a strictly biological level ~ its the purpose of every species on the planet that is part of the binary sex scheme to have sex and procreate as much and with as many others possible.

 

In short? We're not constructed mentally, mentally "happily married" forever after.

 

Enters the concept of romance ~ which came on the scene in the middle ages and hit its peck sometime around the 13th to 16th century.

 

In it original conception and its peak? It was about wooing a woman (even if she was married) not his wife. Even if he was married ~ the wife was for taking care of and running the household ~ along with producing children. (This concept is still alive in modern day Japan ~ where its assumed that men will cheat on their wives ~ which is fine in so long as he brings home "the bacon' and gives the wife her 90% cut. [i lived in Japan for four years]

 

If I've not lost you in all of this, (the summation of my many years of reading and life experience) The current divorce rate for first time marriages varies somewhere between 47 to 51 %.

 

It goes up exponentially for second, third, and fourth etc marriages. (For a number of different reasons, "If this doesn't work out? I'll get out the same way I did the last one!" ~ Failure to learn! ~ Re-bound ~ Failure to grow, etc.

 

Regardless, of the 50% or so that remain married? They do so for reasons other than "love"

 

The status quo, children, finances, cultural-societal-religious believes, etc.

 

Of the 50% of first time marriages? Less than 13% say that they're "Happily Married" (Ref: book titled "Crazy Time" a book about divorce.)

 

Women file 80% to 90% of all divorce petitions. (Ref: Nexus-Lexus ~Paid (Very expensive) on-line Internet research engine used by professional researchers)

 

To GD I would submit that your wrong in your assumption that "She" would meet with the same experiences that you did out in the dating world.

 

80% of any and all women ~ "Marry Up" One of the richest women where I live was once a HB10+ (Hot Babe 10+) and a former stripper. She married the guy I work for who is worth multi-millions. Just one of his companies (and he owns about fifteen or more of them) earned 200 million last year. Its the leading company and producer of ____(As we say in the Military? Intentionally Left Blank__________ in the entire World.

 

In regards to the DD, women are awarded sole custody of the child 90% of the time ~ primarily because men don't pursue custody ~ but of the 10% that do? They're awarded it 90% of the time (Again Nexus-Lexus ~ which as a grad student I'm sure your familiar with.)

 

Also in regard to the DD, I would recommend the book "Second Chances"

 

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Chances-Children-Decade-Divorce/dp/0395735335

 

They initiated a study that found that divorce of parents affect children for decades to come ~ into their twenties, thirties, and even forties.

[Gunny376]

Also referance Time Magazine January 28, 2008 edition "The Science of Romance"

 

They'll send you a copy (or at least of the article for a $ Ditto with NGM)

[GoodDad]

just needed to vent...

 

We went to her neice's wedding Sat night, and that didn't go well. Even though I told myself I wouldn't, we got there an hour early and I brought up how it would have been nice if she had worn her ring since we were at a family function. That started the downhill climb. At the reception I asked her to dance and she did but didn't want to I could tell. She told me Sunday I "guilted" her into it and was pushy about the ring.

 

Then she had a meltdown about the marriage. She started crying and said she was done again and wanted to move out. She said she had tried for two and a half months and loved me but wasn't in love...etc. She wanted to get her own place, but didn't want to get a long term lease and still work on us. I said I couldn't stop her if she wanted to leave and divorce, I didn't want that, but The she freaked out and said she just wanted a seperation and still wanted to goto counseling to see if we could work out, but not a divorce yet.

 

I finally went there and said I felt like she just wanted to be with other men and date, etc. She said that wasn't it. Maybe eventually, but she just wanted to be alone. I know she is full of it. Im sorry, but if we are working on it living under the same roof in seperate bedrooms how is it going to be better dragging it out but living seperately? The only reason to do that is so she can string me along and see if there is something better out there and if not Im the fallback guy.

 

She said she just had to "WANT" to be with me and me alone and she is tired of being unhappy and confused and it is too confusing living together and how we still are affectionate, and she feels so safe when I hold her or we get physical, but she goes back and forth, because I hurt her by rejecting her before and she just cant forgive me. Trying to make it all my fault again. I know I did wrong. Ive accepted that. I am trying to do better and its either good enough or it won't be. I pointed out we were already doing an in-house seperation and it would be that much harder to reconcile if she moved out and got a 3 month lease somewhere, not even to talk about the financial side of it. It takes both our incomes to maintain our situation and trying to do it on one would not be feasible. Not that thats a reason to stay together. But man, everything is going to fall apart in so many ways and she is still walking the line of maybe I can fall in love with you again maybe I cant.

 

I calmed the situation down a bit but we didn't resolve anaything. Then she was all over me the rest of the night with affection etc, and wanted to get physical which confused the heck out of me, and I wasn't able too. She had just said basically she was leaving and I was supposed to put that aside and be romantic? Another nail in our coffin I guess.

 

I am feeling so hurt and numb right now. We still don't have a resolution. I need to figure what the hell I want. I know I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. I deserve that. And the thing that is driving me freaking nuts is that all our issues are freaking fixable if she would just meet me halfway... I don't know what to do anymore.

 

I don't want her to leave, I don't want to break up the family and I still love her although I am PISSED as all get out at her and the situation. And now we have thanksgiving and her son's bday and xmas and she wants to move out around his bday in a few weeks. Way to go mom. I know the timing doesn't matter in the big scheme but it DOES. I know I cant get her to stay if she doesn't want to. I know all the things SHE has done to hurt me during the past few months and now I am supposed to be like sure, move out, enjoy the single life, hook up with whoever and we will still work on marriage counseling living apart...

 

She said if we set groundrules not to date we could, but we should take the counseling month by month. Plus she wanted me to help her move out... I don't think I can handle that.

 

Then she dialed back and stopped talking about it, so who knows, but I know its coming to that and I just hurt. I'm in a marriage with someone who is running for the door and it is hard.

 

I keep trying and trying to do the right thing and I know the advice I am going to get is to just serve her first etc. I also don't want to lose my daughter in this. At least she was saying she would do joint physical. I still can't IMAGINE not tucking her in every night. I am about to lose my mind on that one, can't even go there yet. And I'm such a crybaby, a lot of the folks out here only get to see their kids a couple weekends a month. I should be happy right? WHOOPEE. :(

 

And she sat there and cried about how she is worried she is making the biggest mistake in her life, or might move out and regret it terribly etc. Then why do it. ARGHAHGHAHGH, it is so frustrating. And I know, the WAS will say whatever and half of this is probably mental maninupulation. But at the same time I am the one looking in her eyes, and seeing her pain. She really is confused. Doesn't she get this is going to be a 100 times harder to fix if she goes? And it already is one of the hardest things ever as it is to fix when a marriage is on the rocks.

 

Man...I guess we will see what counseling brings tonight....just losing hope and trying not to spiral down and hold it together. I have to for me, and my daughter... And it is going to be bad if goes...emotionally. I can feel it. Many of you have been there so you know.

 

And now what to do about Thanksgiving with her family, hold it together for the kids or not go. Same with the wedding next week we were all going too. I just jumped through major hoops to be able be able to go to that as its out of town and complicated. Man... I am a fool.

 

Thanks for listening, just needed to get it out.

 

Take care.

 

GD