How to deal with Escapism?

[JLoves]

Recently my ILYB SO started using ICQ again. She has an interesting profile description on it and tends to attract guys who want to chat to her. She starts using it when she feels she needs to escape a bit.

 

A couple of days ago I found some pictures she took of herself while I was out a couple of months ago. They were sexy revealing shots. I know she has sent these pictures to one of these random guys she has been talking to since using ICQ again.

 

I got so angry about them and it has been tearing me apart for days. I have been bottling it up as I've been telling myself it would be a bad move to ask about them. I realised that I'm so jealous of these other guys she talks to. She never takes sexy shots for me.

 

Eventually tonight I asked her if she ever send pictures of herself to other guys online. She said adamantly no. It was too hard.

 

Then I said that I borrowed her usb stick to transfer some files. (she got a new laptop and transferred some files between her old one and the new one, and I was curious what she transferred.)

 

She then said 'and you found some pictures'.

 

Then she stormed off and said she didn't want to talk to me.

 

I wrote her a letter saying some things, apologising, gave it to her and went out for a couple of hours. I am regretting giving it to her now as I have thought about it some more, and I realised that she is not just angry at me snooping (which I wrote) but is probably angry at being found out she was lying also.

 

I may have pushed her too far. We are into month 9 after ILYB. (See my thread 'Is Trial Seperation recoverable')

 

She wants to escape from our relationship/situation when she is feeling down or pressured, and is using ICQ/random guys to do it. I was mildly ok with that, but the revealing shots taken in our bedroom is past my acceptance.

 

I have been kicking myself for breaking the 180 rules (no spying and not talking about something that will make things worse), and I'm still angry at her for lying to me plus being intimate with other strangers instead of me.

 

I was wrong for spying, she was wrong for taking provocative pictures and lying to me about it when I asked.

 

I don't know where things are going to go from here.. Its 2am and I just want to wake her up and talk about it.

 

All I want to do is hold and hug her.

 

How can I deal with her wanting to escape all the time?

[FarFetched]

I'm sorry you have to go through this. There are a couple things I read in your post that are concerning and that also reminded me of my STBXW:

 

Escapism: Is she just avoiding having a conversation about this current issue, or does she tend to run from problems in general? When your relationship would get bumpy or challenging, as even the best relationships do, would she shut down and run away? Would she suggest that maybe you guys shouldn't be together rather than handling the problem like an adult?

 

Not being truthful: You asked her if she had ever sent pictures, she didn't think you knew about the pics, so she lied about it. Does she tend to lie about things if she doesn't think you can prove it? Do you ever suspect she's not being truthful with you?

 

If the above are true, you might want to think long and hard about this. Would you really want to be with somebody who is incapable of handling the rigors of a marriage/relationship? What happens when you have kids and things REALLY get difficult? Also, if she feels comfortable lying to you, how can you ever trust her?

 

I hope you guys are able to work through this, I really do. But in the process, make sure you're asking yourself whether you can deal with these personality issues (if they are issues with her) for the rest of your life.

[JLoves]

I'm sorry you have to go through this. There are a couple things I read in your post that are concerning and that also reminded me of my STBXW:

 

Escapism: Is she just avoiding having a conversation about this current issue, or does she tend to run from problems in general? When your relationship would get bumpy or challenging, as even the best relationships do, would she shut down and run away? Would she suggest that maybe you guys shouldn't be together rather than handling the problem like an adult?

 

She tends to run from relationship problems in general and rather than talking to me about a problem she shuts down.

 

Recently she has told me that 'You should be with someone who doesn't treat you like sh*t'.

 

The solution in her head is to 'leave'.

 

Not being truthful: You asked her if she had ever sent pictures, she didn't think you knew about the pics, so she lied about it. Does she tend to lie about things if she doesn't think you can prove it? Do you ever suspect she's not being truthful with you?

 

As far as I know she hasn't lied to me in the past. Maybe neglected to mention things, but I think that happens in any relationship. She knew I would be extremely hurt and angry about the pictures. I guess that was why she lied. To avoid an argument.

 

I don't know what else she has lied about.

 

If the above are true, you might want to think long and hard about this. Would you really want to be with somebody who is incapable of handling the rigors of a marriage/relationship? What happens when you have kids and things REALLY get difficult? Also, if she feels comfortable lying to you, how can you ever trust her?

 

Unfortunately we are married 11+ years and have two lovely children. The past 5-6 years have been rocky and very hard. (although I was unawares for most of them). There are a lot of issues in my marriage. I'm doing my best to work on them.

 

Trust is a problem I have at the moment and have had since I caught her kissing a friend. (who turned out to be a EA)

 

I don't trust her to not talk to internet strangers and show herself on a webcam. I've confronted her about that before, and even she says she can't be trusted to do this.

 

I hope you guys are able to work through this, I really do. But in the process, make sure you're asking yourself whether you can deal with these personality issues (if they are issues with her) for the rest of your life.

 

I do also..

[JLoves]

A day or so has passed and its been hard. Especially today when I'm alone at home in my own head. (done the lawn already, maybe doing the housework will help)

 

The morning after she lied about sending pictures she acted as if nothing happened. Same today. She is just continuing as if I hadn't said a thing.

 

That said, it's not exactly a fantastic relationship currently. We talk, say pleasantries, joke about stuff, talk with the kids, she will let me kiss her as she walks out the door but its like there's no intimacy. Maybe she has given up and is waiting for me to give up trying.

 

Its driving me crazy. I know I need to leave her alone until she wants to talk about it, but it really seems to be running away from the problem rather than dealing with it. She has never come to me to talk about our relationship since the ILYB bomb.

 

I've booked a single MC session for tomorrow evening, which is tricky as I don't want her to know I'm going. I have to talk to someone.

 

I haven't been back to MC since the last Trial Separation request and I read the divorce busting books. I need to work out if the MC is pro-marriage or not I guess.

Edited November 10, 2009 by JLoves

[seibert253]

J.

Doesn't sound like she's willing to do anything to fix this. Almost sounds like she waiting to drop the bomb.

 

Beat her to the punch.

 

Lay it on the line. Tell her how you feel, how you can no longer accept the status quo, and not deal with the issues that are destroying your marriage.

 

Give her a choice, work with you to fix this, or you need to go your seperate ways. You need to be strong and firm. She needs to see that and see you are no longer going to accept what she's done, and what she continues to do. She needs to see that you are prepared to move on without her. It's the only thing that snapped my W back into reality.

[JLoves]

I've done the worse thing in my life.

 

I talked about this stuff with W and laid it on the line... A few things came out.

 

I told her I couldn't deal with the pain any more and the worrying that she was going to leave me every time a strange text comes (or when I find out something)

 

I gave her the ultimatum.. Stay and properly work on our relationship or leave.

 

She said she would leave in the morning.. and I made her decide stay or leave now.. (I had to threaten to call her sister to come get her before she would go). I don't think I could have coped if she stayed the night.

 

She packed her stuff and left. I don't know where she is or where she is going.

 

I hope I have done the right thing..

 

At least I have IC to go to tomorrow night... She may even come.. I told her when it was.. I doubt it though.. to soon.

 

I still love her so much..

 

I hope it works

[kevinconner]

Very similar situation here. Maybe I can add some ideas:

 

- Do you find that you often are attracted more to something you know you can't have?

 

- Long term, how in the world can a situation like you describe last 10 years? 20 years? The issues will not go away, they will only compound.

 

- I find that a person who escapes is VERY aware of what they are doing. Having a guy like you in her life is the best she could ever hope for, as long as you are down with knowing "who" she is.

 

Should she leave and find someone else, the chance of finding someone who loves her less is very high.

 

- Escape is an incomplete personality. She cannot love you as much back b/c she doesn't love herself 100%. You two are incompatible in that your sense of internal love is at different stages in your life journey. You need to be with someone who better compliments where you are so you can BOTH move up together.

[JLoves]

Well, looks like thats as much sleep as I'm going to get tonight... 3 hours.

 

Just read your posts and I see you are on the 'other side' of the fence. I appreciate the reply.

 

Very similar situation here. Maybe I can add some ideas:

 

- Do you find that you often are attracted more to something you know you can't have?

 

Well, I guess so. Isn't it typical for every middle age guy to want something he can't have? But it's not something I would ever actively pursue. Look but not touch, window shopping,etc.

 

- Long term, how in the world can a situation like you describe last 10 years? 20 years? The issues will not go away, they will only compound.

 

Oh, after tonight's events I realise there was no way it was going to survive the way things were going. Unless both talked honestly about our relationship it was going spiral down and down until we both were spat out in a big mess.

 

I thought things were going ok. I'm still in shock at some of the things she said.

 

- I find that a person who escapes is VERY aware of what they are doing. Having a guy like you in her life is the best she could ever hope for, as long as you are down with knowing "who" she is.

Should she leave and find someone else, the chance of finding someone who loves her less is very high.

 

This time I decided to accept that she wanted to escape and said I didn't mind that she wanted to escape.. Post pictures on the internet to random strangers if you want.

 

It was the lying that got to me. How many other lies have there been. How many things has she not told me.

 

I somehow find your last sentence comforting. I don't love her less because I sent her away.

 

- Escape is an incomplete personality. She cannot love you as much back b/c she doesn't love herself 100%. You two are incompatible in that your sense of internal love is at different stages in your life journey. You need to be with someone who better compliments where you are so you can BOTH move up together.

 

I don't need her to love me back 100%... I would settle for just a small amount that I can work with.

 

If she keeps telling herself that I should find someone who loves me instead of treating me like dirt, then she will never be that person.

 

Unless she wants to change I guess.. (wishful thinking?)

[GorillaTheater]

For what it's worth J, despite the obvious and intense pain, I think you did the right thing by sending her off. Maybe it will be the dose of reality she needs.

 

You can't control her, her thoughts or her actions, only yourself. Do whatever it takes, whether it be NC with her, working out, counseling, or something else, in order to get yourself to a better place. It will get better.

[JLoves]

For what it's worth J, despite the obvious and intense pain, I think you did the right thing by sending her off. Maybe it will be the dose of reality she needs.

 

I hope so. I'm kind of numb at the moment.

 

You can't control her, her thoughts or her actions, only yourself. Do whatever it takes, whether it be NC with her, working out, counseling, or something else, in order to get yourself to a better place. It will get better.

 

I have come to realise this. Reading why 180 is the right thing to do, I've gone back to the gym recently.. I've even got IC counseling tomorrow which I've not been to for 5-6 months.

 

I'm trying to decide what to do.. I guess I have to go LC because of the kids. If that happens I need to delete her from facebook/twitter/msn. I can't face her picture icon appearing.

 

I guess it's going to be hard in the morning when I have to talk to the kids about where mum has gone. (6 and 9)

[JLoves]

Ok, that was harder...

 

Telling my kids that mum is going to be away for a while. And not being able to answer the how long, where is she questions.

 

They are good kids though. Just gotta get through this one day at a time

[Auroracoladybug]

J...how old are your kids? I am trying to get into your thread more before I give advice. So far I think that you are doing what you can...she chose to leave and if flight is truly her mechanism to cope than that was to be expected...work on keeping you and the kids happy...if the two of you were to be able to make this work it will take lots of time and compromise on both sides...I am not really sure where you are on this M...do you want to fight for it?

[JLoves]

Gotta dash.. school run

 

My kids are 6yr girl and 9yr boy.

 

I love her totally... I want her to love me. I want the marriage to work..

 

It's complicated as usual..

 

My full story is here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t196971/

[Auroracoladybug]

Okay so I have read your old posts...I read lots and don't comment too much...I dont know what the hobby is still LOL. I want to work everything out with my husband and have realized that I loved him for his hobby as well as all of his insecurites and bad management but he has to decide what he wants...I needed to be more involved too...

I just think that I am proud that you have stood up to her and have made the attempt to change some of the things that would make you a better husband and father (thining out the collection)...I think that you are doing well. She is the one who needs to make the actions count too...the kids deserve it and leaving them would never have been an option to me as a mother. Keep working at it because whatever the outcome you deserve someone who accepts you fully and cherishes you...and you both deserve to be happy...she may never understand that any relationship will always take more work than we think.

[seibert253]

Well J, she did exactly what you thought she would do, run, escape.

 

She's a chronic avoider, runaway from your problems and hope they go away. Not this time my friend.

 

J, you have a choice; continue to allow her to run from her problems, and drag you and your family along with her, or stand your ground and say ENOUGH, face this with me, or face it alone.

It's her choice now.

 

You need to go serious 180 here. She needs to see, realize, and live with the pain of not having a loving supportive husband, and not being able to see her kids whenever she wants. That is going to force her to realize what she's done.

She can either face it, or run from it, but that's her choice, not yours.

 

Listen J, you need to remain strong, remain firm, and stay commited. Please don't waffle and let her return on her terms. If you allow that, you've lost.

How dare you settle for less than 100% of her love and commitment? Do you give your kids less than 100% of your love and commitment. I think not. Why, because they deserve it, as do you deserve 100% from your wife. If she cant' give you that, trust me, there's another who will.

 

No retreat, no surrender

[seibert253]

Oh, almost forgot:

 

You absolutely did the right thing by confronting her. It needed to be done and I think you did OK.

 

Every great journey begins with but a single step.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Oh, almost forgot:

 

You absolutely did the right thing by confronting her. It needed to be done and I think you did OK.

 

Every great journey begins with but a single step.

 

That right there is quote of the freaking year!!!

 

you need to stop chasing her and start walking away from this toxic woman. You dont need her!!!

[JLoves]

Okay so I have read your old posts...I read lots and don't comment too much...I dont know what the hobby is still LOL. I want to work everything out with my husband and have realized that I loved him for his hobby as well as all of his insecurites and bad management but he has to decide what he wants...I needed to be more involved too...

 

Well, the hobby is collecting video arcade machines and the game boards that go inside them.

 

I can see those three qualities in myself.. I hope he decides what you both need.

 

I just think that I am proud that you have stood up to her and have made the attempt to change some of the things that would make you a better husband and father (thining out the collection)...

 

Keeping up with it is the hard thing, and I've slipped considerably. It's hard maintaining the house and selling stuff.. Just sitting down at the computer makes the daytime hours disappear as well.

 

I need to make action rather than talk.

 

I think that you are doing well. She is the one who needs to make the actions count too...the kids deserve it and leaving them would never have been an option to me as a mother. Keep working at it because whatever the outcome you deserve someone who accepts you fully and cherishes you...and you both deserve to be happy...she may never understand that any relationship will always take more work than we think.

 

Thank you for your words.. I in no way feel that I'm doing the right thing, but in someways the ball has started rolling and I just need to keep on top rolling in the right direction. I hope I don't fall off.

[JLoves]

Not in the best place at the moment.. It's all hitting home now the kids are in bed and I'm in the house alone.

 

I visited my dad to talk on the way back from school, and my mobile rang. It was W calling from work. Said she stayed at her sisters, was the kids ok, how was I. Tried to give 'I'm holding up ok' answers.. Hard to do on the spot.

 

She said she wasn't coming home tonight, (wasn't surprised), but suggested having dinner on Friday with the kids, putting them to bed, then talking. I agreed to it, but haven't told the kids yet. Don't want to get their hopes up that mum is coming home on Friday.

 

Went to MC tonight. I guess it helped to talk. I sometimes come out of the sessions a bit numb. Like I'm not sure where it all went. (I talk and then tend to forget whats been said)

 

She recognised the divorce buster books and I said I realised the 180 technique was what she talked about in earlier sessions.

 

The hard part was talking about co-parenting and how that works. Just talking about it makes it seem so final, but I had to see what the options were so I can talk with W on Friday.

 

At the end Trial Separation came up, but wasn't really talked about. I guess when I said that there probably wasn't much chance of her wanting to try again that the MC put that option aside.

 

I have to decide what my terms are for getting back together.. Sounds like Trial Separation might be the way to go, and we work on getting back together over the long term. (ultimately thats what I want at the moment, but I realise that I've hit her over the head with an ultimatum and I need to stick to that and see it through)

 

Realistic terms I guess with proper descriptions rather than wafflely 'I want you to love me more'

 

MC also suggested seeing a doctor to see if depression is involved, will probably do that just to get some help to cope.

 

So, keep doing 180, looking after myself and kids, go see a doctor and read stuff in prep for friday.

[JLoves]

Early days yet I guess..

 

My son asked to ring mum, so arranged for him to do so. She told him that she was coming over on friday for dinner and to talk to dad but she wouldn't be staying. (starting that text message asking for a time made me cry. I guess those ones sneak up on you)

 

Well that eliminates possible one topic. I don't know if it's too early to talk about specifics of co-parenting. It's all too raw for me. Esp since I was the one who started the ball rolling on this downhill run. Not to mention working out how to pay for the mortgage once the split is complete.

 

This is so scary. I want it all to be over.

 

Got an appt with a doctor tomorrow who hopefully has worked with people in relationship problems. My wife saw her a few months ago.

 

How do people cope with going through this hell...

[Auroracoladybug]

Honestly we are all dealing the best we can...I hope that your Dr appt goes well and that you stay on an even keel with the discussion. I hope the kids enjoy dinner with both of you and I hope that you can show your W the effort you are making...good luck

 

by the way...you have a hobby that I think is pretty neat...maybe you could get a job with one of those arcades ...have to admit that I wouldn't want them everywhere (I suck at games but loved Atari Star Runner or something like that lol)

[JLoves]

I hope the doctor has some suggestions on keeping afloat as well. Just have to see..

 

I'm kind of expecting my wife to come over, and be like a robot. She has become very good at hiding her feelings and not talking to me so I can't expect any emotion when it's come to this.

 

I just hope that one day she will come to her senses... out of the fog of low esteem or what ever I can imagine up to keep the flames going in my heart.

 

Time will tell.

 

I guess I'm slowly moving into acceptance and getting on with it. Not happy about it, but life goes on.

 

I think of the family holiday we were going to take end of december and her birthday thats in a month and the present I got her... I feel very sad.

 

Stun runner I guess

 

My collection has been confined to the garage and my office for a long time, but it was still too much.

[Auroracoladybug]

Yep! had to look it up lol...

 

I am glad you are not building this up to something it is not...I am glad to hear that you are moving forward...live for the now and don't try to see into the future (trust me I have to work hard on that)...my thoughts will be much the same for the holidays here... I don't know what to do for me and my baby...don't know where we are going to go...etc

[Phateless]

I've done the worse thing in my life.

 

I talked about this stuff with W and laid it on the line... A few things came out.

 

I told her I couldn't deal with the pain any more and the worrying that she was going to leave me every time a strange text comes (or when I find out something)

 

I gave her the ultimatum.. Stay and properly work on our relationship or leave.

 

She said she would leave in the morning.. and I made her decide stay or leave now.. (I had to threaten to call her sister to come get her before she would go). I don't think I could have coped if she stayed the night.

 

She packed her stuff and left. I don't know where she is or where she is going.

 

I hope I have done the right thing..

 

At least I have IC to go to tomorrow night... She may even come.. I told her when it was.. I doubt it though.. to soon.

 

I still love her so much..

 

I hope it works

 

Wow... I admire you for sticking to your guns. Hang in there bro!

[JLoves]

Wow... I admire you for sticking to your guns. Hang in there bro!

 

I wish I felt the same way about doing it..

 

Off to the docs.. dunno what I'm after