What Did You Need To Know About The Affair?

[Spark1111]

How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal?

 

Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal?

 

What did you NOT want to know. if anything?

 

Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details?

 

What did they hide, if anything, from you?

 

In what timeline were your questions answered?

 

And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce?

 

I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of.

 

How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair?

[Blindsidedagainalive]

What did you NOT want to know. if anything? - If she swallowed. Crude but true. I wanted most other sexual details

Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details? - Absolutely not, they VERY seldom are. 2 years of trickle truths and I am sure there are more.

What did they hide, if anything, from you? OMG, most of it. First they were friends, then they had sex, then they had sex in the park, then they had sex in 2 parks, then they had oral, then she was at his house once, then 2X.....on and on.

In what timeline were your questions answered? Oh, various versions over the past 2 years. Doubt if I have it all, but I am starting to care less.

 

And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce? I still haven't...in limbo. I will always think of her as the woman who had sex with another man while I was doing the dishes.

I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of.

 

How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair? The trickle truth destroyed my trust in her. She did not understand how crucial it was for me. It made ME feel like an outsider, like she was protecting something special.

[aeh]

Funny, I initially didn't want to know the same thing as Blindsided--did she swallow? But then I had to know. I wanted to know everything--about her bras and panties? what positions? how many times? where? what was the sexiest thing about her? What did they say to each other during sex? What kinds of compliments did he give her? what did they say in texts/emails/phone calls to each other? Did she always O? What did she do that I don't? I think he has whitewashed a lot of the answers to these questions and so I have stopped asking because I don't think I will ever get the full truth anyway.

 

It helped me though to know the answers even though it was painful. It stung initially and then I would process it. I still sometimes revisit bits of the info that specifically bother me, but it helped me to know.....

[skylarblue]

I’ve never been the BS or WS, but I’ve been the OW and I’ve always thought knowing specific sexual details would destroy any chance of reconciliation. I think BS become too obsessed with knowing every single detail to which they would rarely get the truth. Could knowing what positions or what was done really help you heal? Wouldn’t you replay things over and over in your mind? If you think your W/H having an A in crushing, reliving every detail and description through them would be a whole lot worse.

How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal?

Ten questions to ask your unfaithful spouse…book “Not Just Friends”

1. What did you say to yourself that gave you permission to get involved?

2. After the first time you had sex, did you feel guilty?

3. How could it go on so long if you knew it was wrong?

4. Did you think about me at all?

5. What did you share about us?

6. Did you talk about love or about a future together?

7. What did you see in the affair partner?

8. What did you like about yourself in the affair? How were you different?

9. Were there previous infidelities or opportunities, and how was this time similar or different?

10. Did you have unprotected sex?

Edited October 29, 2009 by skylarblue

[turnstone]

All I needed to know was there was no excuse for betraying me. What I actually know is far too much.

 

Spark, does the question relate to your situation?

[Spark1111]

I have asked shirley Glass's questions from "Not Just Friends."

 

Still felt the answers were, ahem, "minimized."

 

She also advocates the importance of giving the spouse a window into the affair, because the affair partner had a big window into the marriage, albeit through the perceptions of the unhappy spouse at the time.

 

Initially, I did not want to know the sexual details because i was not ready for them. He would never touch me again.

 

But when I was ready for them....they were not forthcoming and I have learned, in my case, my imagination is greater than any truths he could have told me.

 

He has told me that her attention and flattery is what turned him on, but the sex was...less than. Based on a few texts I intercepted, pretty sure I don't believe this either.

 

Now, I still have resentment of his handling of the aftermath, almost more so than the affair.

 

And I wonder how he could have continued to let me be in pain. I was so ready to forgive him, had he bared it all when I begged for it.

 

Now, yes, I do feel stuck in a place in a bad place in the reconciliation. And as more time goes on, he remembers....less.

 

We are heading back to MC. I need to know if I can trust him again.

 

What if it is never enough information?

[turnstone]

What if it is never enough information?

 

When you decide you can no longer live with not having enough information and when you realise he's never going to give it to you, then its time to walk away. But only you can decide when those facts have come together and that time has come.

 

I hope the MC works out one way or another.

[Devil Inside]

I did not want to know all the gory details. A part of me thought I needed to know it all...but I am glad I didn't ask...it would have created a mental picture I couldn't erase. I needed to know how long it was going, if it was over, how it ended, and if they used protection, oh and if she wanted this marriage.

[eeyore1981]

My H's ability to be honest is quite underwhelming.

 

I, too, have recently passed the 2-year mark, and am less than impressed with my 'window into the affair'. I need MC, too. H had agreed to go, with the understanding between us he would have to be out of town for 2-3 weeks. We got intake out of the way, and now the 2-3 weeks have turned into 6. We fought about this last night.

 

That's okay, though. The more I get treated this way, the more I disengage.

 

What do I need to know? WTF happened, that's what I need to know. The lying, trickle-truths, minimizing, defensiveness, manipulation, playing dumb, etc. etc. is destroying our marriage.

[allhopelost]

What Did You Need To Know About The Affair?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal?

• Although I am a long way from completely healing, if even possible, I believe that if I hadn't had full disclosure that my imagination would have destroyed me.
  Anything short of FULL DISCLOSURE would have only fed the monster inside me more distrust, adding insult to injury and open the door for D. I would not accept any excuses for her behaviour, and had she tried making them, R would have been made impossible.
  

Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal?

• All of it. There was no detail too small or insignificant that hasn't aided me in learning how to accept what happened and try to move forward.
  

What did you NOT want to know. if anything?

• There is/was nothing I DIDN'T want to know. I NEEDED to know EVERYTHING.
  

Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details?

• No - I had to pry them out of her until she was broken down enough by listening to her own words trying to explain what she did and realized how ugly what she had done actually sounded coming from her own mouth. I truely believed that she needed to hear how ridiculous and selfish her behaviour was and how hurtful and inconsiderate she had been not from me, but from herself. At that moment, the weight of the whole situation came down on her and she collapsed onto the floor, crying uncontrollably. It was then that I knew she had finally accepted what she had done and was completely destroyed and horrified at what she had become.
  

What did they hide, if anything, from you?

• 1. That they didn't use protection.
  2. That he came inside her
  3. That she blew him three times
  4. That they had sex in MY CAR.
  

In what timeline were your questions answered?

• D-Day - a macro view of what had transpired and confession to PA.
  
• 1 Week - Timeline of events, my personal investigation turned up several clues, i.e. visiting the motel and talkking to the manager, coming trough the trash, searching every possible hiding place in and around our house, visiting the places they met and searching for condom wrappers, etc. Some of the sex details, i.e. positions, quality of the sex, details about AP, state of her mind, coorlating things we did together during her A and a lot of monday morning quarterbacking.
  
• 2 weeks out - full disclosure about items that she was hiding. Oddly enough, I knew all along that she was lying to me, especially about #1-3, but I didn't pry. I made known that I was RELIEVED that they had used protection, that there was no oral, and stressed HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR ME TO KNOW THAT. I knew she was lying, and made it so that in order for her to confess, she risked destroying me and our marraige. I wanted her to make the decision on her own to fess up and risk everything by doing so. It was imortant to me that she make the right decision (the truth) and she bring it to me on her own. I had made up my mind that if she didn't come completely clean, proving her remorse and accepting FULL RESPONSIBILITY by day 14, she would have to leave. I didn't communicate this to her, however.
  

And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce?

• When she came to me at her lowest point, laid bare with emotion and regret, humiliated and scared, and yet brave enough to fully disclose that which she had kept hidden.
  

I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of.

 

 

 

How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair?

• This remains to be seen...I will say that i encourage her to talk about it every day, feeling eventually there will be some comfort level achieved and will lessen the chance of abeing blindsided by some unforseen trigger down the road. This is for my benefit as well.
  

Good post.

[Spark1111]

Yes, mine too.

 

Here's one thing he won't/can't clarify: Who was the dominant personality in the relationship? (I suspect she called the shots).The reason I ask is that often, his behavior was so out of character, even for him!!!!

 

Despite our marital problems, he has usually been a wonderful devoted father to his children.

 

There was a parent's weekend at college for one of our children. He hemmed and hawed about attending, may have to go out of town on business, etc.

 

He was shacked up in hotels with her. I went alone, with another child.

 

I asked: "I know you were unhappy with us, but why would you miss an opportunity to see a child you adored?" His anger (at the question? At himself?) was way off the charts.

 

So unsatisfying. I am looking for introspection, an answer to his thinking at the time....anything that gives me clarity and and proves he has begun to examine and UNDERSTAND his past behavior. That would help restore my trust.

 

He doesn't really remember why he made that choice. He got angry and...shut down. One year later in reconciliation, we BOTH attend a campus event, and with complete honesty he was shocked that I had been there before. As if there is no memory of us, our family life, during the time of his affair.

 

I asked him....were you pu$$y-whipped in this relationship?

 

He replied, no I don't think so.

 

So with these answers, I can't seem to STILL make sense of the total picture. It does, on days, make me crazy.

 

Will it ever be enough??

 

The most honest thing he has said to me, (HA!) is that he lied to me because he did not want to lose me.

 

Would you accept that response?

[aeh]

My H had a 10 month long A. He has insisted repeatedly it was "just sex". Says she didn't talk about feelings much, if at all, and neither did he. She did tell him she loved him 3X during sex in which he felt obligated to say it back. But he said otherwise, they just didn't talk about feelings or emotions. She was married also. She did say a couple times during or after sex, "We should just run away together" to which he told her "You know that will never happen". She didn't have kids and we do. I have struggled with the fact that H says no emotions (love, extreme infatuation ,etc) were involved. He said it was just not that kind of A. I feel like he is minimizing it to re-enter the M. We have talked about this ad nauseum. He spoke with the therapist about this and she said women often project more "meaning" and feelings onto the A than men. He also says that he wasn't giving her compliments other than "you look nice today" or "that feels good" (during sex). I just don't get that--I would think that the ego-stroking is why she is there (and for him,too). Does this ring true for anyone else?

[Snowflower]

 

So unsatisfying. I am looking for introspection, an answer to his thinking at the time....anything that gives me clarity and and proves he has begun to examine and UNDERSTAND his past behavior. That would help restore my trust.

 

He doesn't really remember why he made that choice. He got angry and...shut down. One year later in reconciliation, we BOTH attend a campus event, and with complete honesty he was shocked that I had been there before. As if there is no memory of us, our family life, during the time of his affair.

 

The most honest thing he has said to me, (HA!) is that he lied to me because he did not want to lose me.

 

Would you accept that response?

 

Hi spark, I cut some of your post above to these relevant points...

 

Spark, your H may NEVER be able to tell you why he did what he did. He might not be able to understand it himself, at least not completely.

 

Sometimes, everyone makes choices in life that they don't understand later why they did what they did. To take a non-A example in my own life of a bad choice I have made...my husband and I currently own a house that we pretty much both detest. I pretty much was all gung-ho about this house when we found it and really kind of forced my H to go along with it. He reluctantly agreed.

 

Now I look back on my decision (because it was pretty much my decision) and I can't believe we bought this house. It is quite a process to buy a house, there are inspections, surveys, mortgage requirements, etc. It isn't like buying a pair of shoes. Now, I look at this house and think, 'what the h*ll was I thinking?' The location is inconvenient, it needs exterior work, it's rather expensive for our budget...I had severe buyers remorse! Now we can't sell it in the lousy housing market...so I'm still stuck with it!

 

My point is making a bad decision to buy the wrong house is done in a series of steps, like the decision to have an affair...it's a big decision that usually takes a lot of little steps to complete. They can both be bad decisions despite the fact that there are numerous opportunities to turn back or make other decisions along the way.

 

So, spark, your H may never fully understand or be able to explain to you why he did what he did. My H did some severely out of character things when in his A, as well. But, when he told me that he could never fully explain his decisions to do what he did, although he has tried and has answered to my satisfaction, I was able to accept his explanations.

 

However, does your H own his bad choices, even if he doesn't understand them? Has/is he doing the work necessary on himself to prevent similar behavior in the future?

 

Are your H explanations not enough for you?

[Spark1111]

It does for me.....Reality or fantasy has yet to be unequivocally explained to me.

 

Intercepted phone text, and the start of the next three months worth of DDAY drama:

 

Him: "You are the one that I want! I need to reach my goals and take care of you and your son, forever."

 

Her: "Come back and hold me. Hold me forever."

 

We were on a weekend away with couples, then met up with our children at his family's lake house.

 

I contained myself, even scoring a 7-letter scrabble word while playing with his sisters as I went into shock.

 

He had real feeling for her, at that time.

 

Now, nah....it was the attention he loved.

 

How do I fill in the blanks? His feelings HAVE changed towards her. Does that make him re-write the history of it....to me?

 

I am so upset to be stuck here after two years...Just one more unfair act perpetrated on the same old victim....me.

[Spark1111]

Snowflower, yes they are....I thought two years of IC would help him gain introspection and understanding. His responses always lack enough depth for me.

 

He really does not want to talk about it anymore, wants to be judged by his actions from DDAy forward. I get that, I really do. And he is back/back to the wonderful man he has always been.

 

So why is it not enough for me? I agree with the posters here who say the omissions...keep it protected and secret for the WS!

 

It still hurts.

 

And he has never, not once, willingly disclosed details to me.

 

What does that say about him? Me?

[2sure]

My H has never told me anything beyond admitting to what I have put in front of him as black and white. He uses the blanket statement: "I have cheated on and betrayed you in every way possible" as his tool for communcation/admission/ etc.

 

I refuse to ask any questions. He is incapable of telling the truth. Its a shame too because as a person...I can forgive him what he has done to me, I can wrap my head around the fact that this is his problem, painful and embarrassing to him as well as me. I have love and still have empathy for him. If he were capable of telling me the truth I would be able to move on from this nightmare feeling as though he and the last 4 years were not a complete and utter tragic part of my own and my daughter's life.

 

But he is incapable so far in giving me even that. He remains a piece of ****. Standing still with his blanket statements and promises seems to be acceptable to him. But I deal with reality, I dont operate that way, I dont stand still , I move forward.

[Snowflower]

Snowflower, yes they are....I thought two years of IC would help him gain introspection and understanding. His responses always lack enough depth for me.

 

He really does not want to talk about it anymore, wants to be judged by his actions from DDAy forward. I get that, I really do. And he is back/back to the wonderful man he has always been.

 

So why is it not enough for me? I agree with the posters here who say the omissions...keep it protected and secret for the WS!

 

It still hurts.

 

And he has never, not once, willingly disclosed details to me.

 

What does that say about him? Me?

 

spark sweetie, it doesn't say anything about you...other than that you are a hurting person who isn't getting the answers they need.

 

Unfortunately though, your 'window of opportunity' to get the answers you need might have passed. Your H may simply not remember everything that happened now, 2 years later, especially if he is trying to forget it ever happened. Men seem to be good at compartmentalizing and allowing themselves to forget that which they don't care to remember.

 

As for the omissions and the secrets...yes, I get that it keeps some part of the affair 'alive' and protected. And I'm so sorry that you still feel on the outside of it.

 

These are all reasons why it is SO DIFFICULT to recover a marriage after an affair.

 

I'm glad to hear you and your H are going back to MC--there are clearly some unresolved issues for you, which is understandable.

[Snowflower]

My H has never told me anything beyond admitting to what I have put in front of him as black and white. He uses the blanket statement: "I have cheated on and betrayed you in every way possible" as his tool for communcation/admission/ etc.

 

 

How condescending of your husband to reply to you in that way, 2sure.

 

It's like he doesn't feel that you deserve the truth or that it would be too much effort for him to impart the information that would be helpful to you. I'm sorry for your pain.

[Dexter Morgan]

What did I need to know about the affair? Well, this is coming from someone who did not stay with the adulteress.

 

What did I need to know?..........that it happened. details didn't matter to me.

[bentnotbroken]

I’ve never been the BS or WS, but I’ve been the OW and I’ve always thought knowing specific sexual details would destroy any chance of reconciliation. I think BS become too obsessed with knowing every single detail to which they would rarely get the truth. Could knowing what positions or what was done really help you heal? Wouldn’t you replay things over and over in your mind? If you think your W/H having an A in crushing, reliving every detail and description through them would be a whole lot worse.

QUOTE]

 

 

Yep, knowing each and every one of those answers helped me heal. The answers helped me to know that the people in my situation had no morals, no conscious, no respect, no dignity, no honor, no core set of values. It's funny your assumption of being an AP is you have no responsibility to the BS, yet you don't believe they should take responsibility for themselves to be informed. IN general, they should shut the hell up and take what is dished to them. The outside people get to have all the pieces to the puzzle and the person already in the dark should never have them all. Cool.

[silktricks]

How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal?

every single solitary d*mn thing.

 

Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal?

when he finally admitted that in the beginning he liked her and was attracted to her. Until he said that - which I knew was the truth - I felt he was still attempting to snow me.

 

What did you NOT want to know. if anything?

wanted to know everything

 

Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details?

:lmao:

 

What did they hide, if anything, from you?

eventually I believe most everything was laid bare.

 

In what timeline were your questions answered?

It only took a few months to get almost everything answered, but the admission that he was actually attracted to her emotionally took a long time. He thought it would hurt me too much to tell me that, but actually it was driving me crazy that he wasn't admitting it. When he finally said it he thought for sure I'd leave him. I think he was astounded when I basically relaxed and said OK, NOW, I can go on....

 

And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce?

 

I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of.

 

How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair?

 

The attempt to hide how he felt about her was the most traumatizing for me. I'm sure that most WS do want to hide the complete truth - probably usually out of shame. They don't get the fact that people like me - who require full disclosure simply get "stuck" then and cannot move either forward or backward until they feel "unstuck".. The only thing that will unstick people like me is the whole truth.

[Spark1111]

I am so the same way as you Silk.

 

We had come from marriage counseling, a good session, 6 months post DDay, which was somehow too soon for us, and I asked him pointblank where he had taken her? He named a place he travelled to for business reasons and mentioned it was "convenient."

No where else?

 

No.

 

I am looking at the cell phone bills and discover another weekend at a lovely resort-town. I go absolutely crazy.

 

Given a calm trusting environment to tell me the truth....why lie again?

 

The trust and the recovery clock set squarely back to zero.

[Spark1111]

What did I need to know about the affair? Well, this is coming from someone who did not stay with the adulteress.

 

What did I need to know?..........that it happened. details didn't matter to me.

 

Dexter, your honesty is always refreshing.

 

And in the schizoid midst of reconciliation, your comments represent the voices on one shoulder in my head, so to speak.

 

And you are living proof that often, walking away from the whole mess might be the saner approach!

 

Same to you Bent!

[Spark1111]

I’ve never been the BS or WS, but I’ve been the OW and I’ve always thought knowing specific sexual details would destroy any chance of reconciliation. I think BS become too obsessed with knowing every single detail to which they would rarely get the truth. Could knowing what positions or what was done really help you heal? Wouldn’t you replay things over and over in your mind? If you think your W/H having an A in crushing, reliving every detail and description through them would be a whole lot worse.

How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal?

Ten questions to ask your unfaithful spouse…book “Not Just Friends”

1. What did you say to yourself that gave you permission to get involved?

2. After the first time you had sex, did you feel guilty?

3. How could it go on so long if you knew it was wrong?

4. Did you think about me at all?

5. What did you share about us?

6. Did you talk about love or about a future together?

7. What did you see in the affair partner?

8. What did you like about yourself in the affair? How were you different?

9. Were there previous infidelities or opportunities, and how was this time similar or different?

10. Did you have unprotected sex?

 

Skylar, I guess it depends on the person.

 

With the exception of these few abherrent years, we told each other everything!

 

Look at the male respondents....they seem most traumatized by the imagination of the sex act....and need EVERY SINGLE DETAIL to heal.

 

IMHO, i think the keeping of any secrets hurts trust in an intimate relationship, certainly one where one of the partners steps outside the marriage.

 

As much as it hurts initially, not knowing their (WS/AP) degree of intimacy is absolutely.....brutal!

[jennie-jennie]

I wanted to know everything, every single little detail. My SO was very forthright and provided me with all the information I asked for. I did feel that this helped me to heal.