DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 This woman has said on five different occasions that she would give me the engagement ring back along with the rest of my stuff. I have tried to keep contact with her to a minimum but the fact is that she decided that she didn't want to pursue things. I didn't want that but then her actions since that moment have made me understand that it really is the best thing (see old posts). She told me a week ago that she was sending everything the next day from Israel to America. I have yet to receive anything, I asked for a tracking number...she told me to leave her alone because she already told me she was sending everything. Now if she's sending EVERYTHING back including a $5000 engagement ring don't you think she would have let me know where it was an when to expect it? I mean this isn't a pair of sneakers. She dips in and out of contact, I have no idea what is going on anymore. Now I am really getting upset and although most of my friends are saying to take it as a loss, with the way she's been going about things it makes me really want to get it back. It's been 3 months now since this occured. I have my good days and bad days but in this situation I really just don't know what to do anymore. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks
logitech Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Damn that is crap. I got mine back the other day. It upset me seeing it, and also knowing it isn't worth selling since it will be worth nowhere near what I paid for it. Erm, one would assume that someone would use tracking for something like that. Perhaps she hasn't sent it?? Strange she would tell you to leave her alone...
silic0ntoad Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Hm. Well, honestly, law dictates that the ring must be returned upon breaking of an engagement. It's a contract and if it breaks up, the owner of the ring has to have the property returned. So, you could take her to small claims court. Honestly, Dusty, I would do the following: Call her. Say "Look, we aren't together anymore, and I want the ring back so we can be finished with things. Please send it right away, I don't want to drag this along any longer than it needs too, so we can both move on." If you're hell bent on getting the ring back (I would be) you can threaten with small claims if all else fails.
logitech Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 It's likely the whole international factor might inhibit that...
2sure Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 She is Isreal, you are in America...small claims isnt going to work. Unless you are planning to visit that country anytime soon and knock on her door to pick up your stuff....its a loss. There is nothing you can "make" her do regarding the ring. She sounds terrible. Is there anyone else close to her that can help you persuade her to do the right thing? Only other thing I can think of is to arrange an isured UPS (or similar) PICK UP. They will notify her of the date they are coming, all she has to do is put everything in a box.
Lishy Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 so when you get an engagement ring it still belongs to the man who gives you it? Who decided that? If I was given a ring it would be mine. I would personally give it back if we broke up but could he take me to court if I didnt? That is like me giving my guy a 42" TV for xmas and then asking for it back if we broke up! Bizarre!
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 She is Isreal, you are in America...small claims isnt going to work. Unless you are planning to visit that country anytime soon and knock on her door to pick up your stuff....its a loss. There is nothing you can "make" her do regarding the ring. She sounds terrible. Is there anyone else close to her that can help you persuade her to do the right thing? Only other thing I can think of is to arrange an isured UPS (or similar) PICK UP. They will notify her of the date they are coming, all she has to do is put everything in a box. A couple of things to consider: 1. I actually became a citizen over there (you believe that) so I can technically go over there and really fight this thing out if I wanted to. The thing is a plane ticket will cost $2000 and with expenses, hiring lawyers (she's a lawyer by the way, to add to everything) and all related costs I might just break even. 2. My friend actually took a loss on the ring that he gave me, not only is it worth what i paid (verified through an independent source) it's worth $7000. 3. All connects are cut once I have it back. We have NOTHING to talk about. 4. Whenever I have sent her an email regarding the ring, it's never answered right away. Everything else, right away. Why is she doing this?
2sure Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Yes Lishy - in the US the engagement ring is not considered a gift but a promise like a contract. It is given in expectation of a marriage, if the marriage doesnt happen - the buyer can get it back. This is why an engagement ring should not be given on a birthday or holiday - so that it can not be otherwise construed as a "gift".
bayouboi Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 so when you get an engagement ring it still belongs to the man who gives you it? Who decided that? If I was given a ring it would be mine. I would personally give it back if we broke up but could he take me to court if I didnt? That is like me giving my guy a 42" TV for xmas and then asking for it back if we broke up! Bizarre! Your analogy would apply if televisions were considered to be a contract between a man and a woman. They're not. Engagement rings are. The other mistake I think you have made is the conception that the ring was a gift to you. It wasn't.
Lishy Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I just looked it up and it differs from state to state in the USA. You have to prove it was an engagement ring and not a gift, it is all very messy and I believe an engagement ring should be given and not taken back. I think it should be down to the man buying it to choose a ring that is not so expensive that he will lose sleep over not getting it back All you would have to do is say it was a gift and not an engagement ring and how could anyone prove otherwise?
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 so when you get an engagement ring it still belongs to the man who gives you it? Who decided that? If I was given a ring it would be mine. I would personally give it back if we broke up but could he take me to court if I didnt? That is like me giving my guy a 42" TV for xmas and then asking for it back if we broke up! Bizarre! An engagement is a promise to marry. Marriage is a contract between two people. She broke the contract not me. She also tried to get me fired not from one job but TWO jobs....one that I didn't even have yet. You don't give someone a TV when you marry them. And if I gave her the engagement ring on her birthday or during another holiday it can be seen as a gift. Now if I broke it off with her that's a different story. But I busted my A** to try and make things work. Now it's just a matter of principle.
Lishy Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Oh Dusty I agree with what you are saying, I was genuinely shocked that it is LAW that you have to give it back. I didnt know that! When you are really badly hurt by someone then them having your 7k ring is adding salt to the wounds! The thing is that you are now eating yourself up with her all over again, just be pleased you got rid of her she sounds awful!
silic0ntoad Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 so when you get an engagement ring it still belongs to the man who gives you it? Who decided that? If I was given a ring it would be mine. I would personally give it back if we broke up but could he take me to court if I didnt? That is like me giving my guy a 42" TV for xmas and then asking for it back if we broke up! Bizarre! Yeah, it's a little known fact that an engagement is a legal contract, basically. If you are given an engagement ring it is with intent to marry. If the engagement is called off, you have to give the ring back. Thus why you never propose on a birthday or holiday, or it can be claimed a gift.
bayouboi Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I believe an engagement ring should be given and not taken back. Well of course you have that point of view because you never lose out if that were the case since you are a woman.
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 I just want what's fair. This is completely ridiculous already. She's not a money grubber by any means, but she is extremely vindictive. Who knows maybe she'll switch the stones indiana jones style..
Lishy Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Well of course you have that point of view because you never lose out if that were the case since you are a woman. ..... true!
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Another thing: I have friends over there that came to visit here on numerous occasions since the break up. I told her they would come by and pick it up. I got one of two responses: Why do you want the ring back now?? (uh, because it's over maybe) OR *crickets*
Ronni_W Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Dusty, Is the law regarding engagement rings the same in her jurisdiction? If so, and since she IS a lawyer, perhaps a letter from a lawyer would be sufficient for her to get her ass moving and return it to you -- and properly packaged and insured, too! If the law is the same, and since she is a lawyer, perhaps she will not want to risk being sued? If your US attorney lets her know that you are prepared to travel and exercise your rights as a citizen of Israel...perhaps it will help move the situation along. If you're not up to going that route, the only other thing (that I can see) that is completely within your own power and control is to let go: of the ring, your other stuff, and all your beliefs, thoughts and feelings about all of it. She is acting like a bitch, unfortunately for you. It does crap out. Hugs.
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Dusty, Is the law regarding engagement rings the same in her jurisdiction? If so, and since she IS a lawyer, perhaps a letter from a lawyer would be sufficient for her to get her ass moving and return it to you -- and properly packaged and insured, too! If the law is the same, and since she is a lawyer, perhaps she will not want to risk being sued? If your US attorney lets her know that you are prepared to travel and exercise your rights as a citizen of Israel...perhaps it will help move the situation along. If you're not up to going that route, the only other thing (that I can see) that is completely within your own power and control is to let go: of the ring, your other stuff, and all your beliefs, thoughts and feelings about all of it. She is acting like a bitch, unfortunately for you. It does crap out. Hugs. You know I've thought about things on both sides of the spectrum. I can just let go and for $5000 have her out of my life forever OR I can go there and really fight this thing. I mean I have emails, receipts, plane tickets...a million things to back me up, that's not even an issue. What I've been seriously considering is what you were saying Ronni. Maybe I can have my attorney draft a letter over to her saying we will pursue this. But on the other hand, I know she would then draw her line in the sand and fight it out. If I just showed up, she may call the police. There are so many things that could go wrong but if I leave a paper trail for everything, it makes me look that much more rational. What a disaster but thanks for your input.
QueenVictoria Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Dusty, I do not think you were man enough for her. Suck it up and let it go. You are making an axx of yourself.
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Dusty, I do not think you were man enough for her. Suck it up and let it go. You are making an axx of yourself. Exactly, that's why she said yes and continued to go through all my personal stuff and try and get me fired, because I was not enough of a man for her. I just want what's mine and I think that's a reasonable request. I moved to her country, left my job to teach english for $4 an hour, yeah that's pretty weak right?
silic0ntoad Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Dusty, I do not think you were man enough for her. Suck it up and let it go. You are making an axx of yourself. That's slightly rude.
Author DustySaltus Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 That's slightly rude. I don't put any weight on it at all. This person doesn't seem to ever make a contribution on this board at all. Just some hit and run postings to try and get a reaction out of people.
silic0ntoad Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I don't put any weight on it at all. This person doesn't seem to ever make a contribution on this board at all. Just some hit and run postings to try and get a reaction out of people. Eh, I feel you. You're in Brooklyn huh? I'll be in the city tomorrow night. Friends want to go to some lounge. lol.
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