foreal Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Okay, so you're a MM/MW and you've developed this secret EA with the OW/OM. It is now at that very point when you make the decision to cross that line, The Kiss...(i.e. physical contact, maybe it was a first grope, whatever) it seems more difficult (?) -maybe more time consuming- to go from the EA to the kiss, than from the kiss to the Sex... it takes awhile to get to the kiss (not all EAs but it took about 3 months of EA to get to the kissing/groping in my H's case.) After that they had sex w/i 2 weeks. So what do you they tell themselves when they go THERE? I think my H thought, "I need this to feel better, and BW will never find out."
2sure Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 You say to yourself: Live in the moment Its harmless I deserve this I know its wrong but it feels so good What she doesnt know wont hurt her This has nothing to do with my real life This doesnt mean anything I want something "just for me"
confusedinkansas Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 So what do you they tell themselves when they go THERE? I think my H thought, "I need this to feel better, and BW will never find out." We think things like this: Our H or W will never find out! So, what's the harm. I deserve to be happy!......THIS makes me happy! I really enjoy MY time with this person! This is time for ME! My H or W gets to do _____(fill in the blank) - therefore I deserve this! My H or W did ______(fill in the blank) TO me...Therefore I deserve this! For me our EA part was 4+ months online. Therefore it didn't take but a few meetings to take it to the next level. Our timing was perfect, both in the same place in our marriages. It was easy. There are a plethura of things that we think when we are in the heat of the moment - (so to speak) Selfish - for the most part (hind site) reasons. But we have our reasons.
NOTSURE7 Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 in my case i convinced myself that it was the way to get through my marriage and that if she never knew it wouldnt hurt her, to me i justified it as an outlet from the real world.. so i started talking and we developed a sort of ea and then when we met it was already a given that we would take it to the next level and it happened wuite seemlessly.. looking back, it was selfish and the hurt i have caused my w is unimaginable, but in the moment i thought of nothing else but me me me...
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I don't recall thinking at all when it got to that moment.
Spark1111 Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 People claim "It just happened. I never meant it to. We were just friends." But in hindsite (i.e., counseling), they realize the thousand little steps they took down the slippery little slope to get to that point; the subtle justifications and excuses; their weak boundaries and their unmet needs, usually uncommunicated to their spouse. They start to keep secrets from you, the AP, but mostly themselves. They compartmentalize: "What he, she doesn't know can't hurt them." Love this line from Dr. Phil: "Don't know if it's wrong? If you wouldn't do it with your spouse standing right beside you, it's wrong." Pretty simple, huh? I also read that it is perfectly NORMAL to develop attractions, crushes, etc to other people while married. In the healthiest marriages, guess what they do? The talk about it together. Imagine that? NO SECRETS!
Devil Inside Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 We met online...lived in neighboring states. We talked about meeting up, and what would happen. Once we planned to meet...we both knew we would cross the line...we did, first meeting....about a month into the EA. After it happened I thought. I think I love her. This feels so right. This is the best I've ever had. I will divorce my wife in time. Man, I feel guilty. She is so beautiful...we are sharing such a moment. This is fate, she is my soulmate, this was meant to be. The things we tell ourselves are amazing...denial and justification are strong.
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 We met online...lived in neighboring states. We talked about meeting up, and what would happen. Once we planned to meet...we both knew we would cross the line...we did, first meeting....about a month into the EA. After it happened I thought. I think I love her. This feels so right. This is the best I've ever had. I will divorce my wife in time. Man, I feel guilty. She is so beautiful...we are sharing such a moment. This is fate, she is my soulmate, this was meant to be. The things we tell ourselves are amazing...denial and justification are strong. Ditto to the above except for the feeling guilty part. To this day, neither of us feels guilty or regrets what happened. Remorse is different. I very much feel it now that BS exists. See, before when we were exploring our physical connection, which became emotional very quickly, the BS didn't exist to me. After D-Day (I still struggle with that term) she very much does exist for me, and I will not do one thing more to cause her any more pain. MM on the other hand.... well let's just say I have changed my feelings as of today.
taylor Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Okay, so you're a MM/MW and you've developed this secret EA with the OW/OM. It is now at that very point when you make the decision to cross that line, The Kiss...(i.e. physical contact, maybe it was a first grope, whatever) it seems more difficult (?) -maybe more time consuming- to go from the EA to the kiss, than from the kiss to the Sex... it takes awhile to get to the kiss (not all EAs but it took about 3 months of EA to get to the kissing/groping in my H's case.) After that they had sex w/i 2 weeks. So what do you they tell themselves when they go THERE? I think my H thought, "I need this to feel better, and BW will never find out." Never got THERE...wanted to..but didn't. I wanted that KISS so bad it hurt, literally, physically hurt. The OM wanted it, too. Told me he needed "the opposite of Viagra" to get thru the day with me. I could see the fire in his eyes, every day, all day long. But we held back and pulled back for MONTHS..a good 6 months..fighting the feelings every single day at work. The kiss never happened. My affair was a 12 month long emotional affair. I got lost in his eyes the day I met him. It was an instant connection. The bond was strong. As time went on it was quite obvious there was a sexual attraction but neither one of us made any advances for 6 months. And then it became a battle between pushing forward emotionally/physically and pulling back hard/distancing. By the 10th month it was obvious the fight to hold back was weakening and the desire to be together was growing stronger. But the kiss never happened. We talked about it during our closure talk...how many times we both wanted to cross that line...how hard it was to pull back. What was going thru our heads at the time? My OM had FEAR going thru his head. He was the one constantly worried about my husband finding out...wanting to know if he would have a jealous husband at his door. He was terrified of leaving a paper trail. He was also terrified of losing his job due to his entanglements with me. He was in bankruptcy with two little ones to take care of on his own. Neither one of us wanted anything to jeopardize that. We both worried about that. I think he was also waiting for me to make the first move. Perhaps because he wouldn't look like the bad guy then? Perhaps because he was not confident enough in how I would respond if he tried to kiss me. I gave him alot of mixed signals due to the internal conflicts I was having about moving the relationship forward. I wish I could say I had my marriage/my husband going thru my head at the time. But I didn't. I felt I had fallen in love with this man and I had waited nearly a year for him to take me in his arms and kiss me..and I knew he wanted to as well. My therapist said, "Taylor, something must have stopped you..something must have been holding you back..or that kiss would have happened well before 12 months." It took me a long time to figure out why I kept the kiss at bay even though I wanted it so badly. The kiss didn't happen because I knew the minute I crossed that line I would have lost ALL respect for myself and I believed he (the OM) would have lost all respect for me as well. The beautiful friendship..the bond..the connection we had together would have instantly turned into something ugly, dirty, sordid. I did not want it to go there. As illogical as it sounds, I also questioned the OM...his true feelings..his true motivations. There were times when I thought, "He wants to have sex with me..a married woman. What kind of a girl does he think I am? He must not think much of me if he thinks I would go there with him." Yet, I thought alot of him and did want to go there with him. It was all very confusing. But in the end, I guess it was the thought of how I would feel about myself and how the OM would feel about me and how we would each feel about having a sordid little affair that kept me from crossing that line. There are still times even today when I wonder what that kiss would have been like..but the thought of how that kiss would have changed everything in such a negative way always gives me a reality check.
HappyAgain Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Mine was complaining about only ever having had one sexual partner. Before the looks were gone they wanted to know what else was out there but they didn't want to lose what they had (reason for cheating) in case there wasn't anything better/different out there. Now, they're free to have as many partners as they'd like. Although, I hear that now they've only had three and are desperately trying to keep the third.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I don't recall thinking at all when it got to that moment. Bingo. It would be nice to find "the reason" but life doesn't always work that way. What was the drunk thinking when he got behind the wheel? Like LB said, sometimes the answer is nothing. I think, as a BS, we tend to give our WS's too much credit... Mr. Lucky
2.50 a gallon Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Foreal How about "I want to try someone new"? of "I want to try something new" As Happy Again posted, sometimes WS has only had sex with the BS and want to experience sex with another before life passes them by. Read the posts In the Separation & Divorce board and notice how often they will say that their only sexual experience as been with the BS. They get trapped in the same ole / same ole. When they want to try something new, like oral, the BS refuses to be adventuresome. There is no way that I could have stayed in a marriage w/o oral, giving and receiving Also sometimes the WS has tried and tried / talked and talked / heard promise after promise of the other making changes, with no results. And have sex outside of their marriege, just to push the others buttons and finally get them to listen. And sometimes, it is just a way to cut the cord. They know if they try talking again, they will hear the same old promises and fall for the same old lines and try again. It is an act of desperation. Then once the act is committed the feelings of love begin
everydaymatters Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 The kiss didn't happen because I knew the minute I crossed that line I would have lost ALL respect for myself and I believed he (the OM) would have lost all respect for me as well. The beautiful friendship..the bond..the connection we had together would have instantly turned into something ugly, dirty, sordid. I did not want it to go there. I have been involved in an EA for about 5 months now, and so far, we have not crossed the line... probably for the same reason as Taylor listed above. I am unhappily married and have been trying to work up the courage to leave for 3 years... long before I met the OM. The OM has never been married, but was in a long-term committed relationship with a women who developed debilitating medical problems about a year and a half ago. She will never recover to the point of being a companion to him again. I have dreamed about what it would be like to be kissed my him... to be with him, but I know that his respect for me would be lost. So, for now, that line will remain uncrossed... regardless of how bad I want it.
norajane Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 First time I crossed the line, we'd been sitting in the park for hours, just talking, laughing, not flirting but it was all flirtation. And I remember wondering if he would kiss me. I thought I would let him, but I wasn't sure. He didn't right then, but he walked me home, holding my hand. And when we reached my corner, we stopped and he looked at me and I knew that's when he would do it, right then under the trees in the moonlight. I crossed the street and walked over to my place and sat on the porch for a little while before going inside to the man waiting for me at home. I thought about how his kisses felt, and how I felt, and I knew there would be more kissing and I wanted that. And then I went inside. So, I hadn't thought much about the man waiting for me until I got in the house. It wasn't the beginning of the end for us - that had started a few months before. And it didn't signal a quick end for us, either. It took me a while to realize there was no going back home.
taylor Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I have been involved in an EA for about 5 months now, and so far, we have not crossed the line... probably for the same reason as Taylor listed above. I am unhappily married and have been trying to work up the courage to leave for 3 years... long before I met the OM. The OM has never been married, but was in a long-term committed relationship with a women who developed debilitating medical problems about a year and a half ago. She will never recover to the point of being a companion to him again. I have dreamed about what it would be like to be kissed my him... to be with him, but I know that his respect for me would be lost. So, for now, that line will remain uncrossed... regardless of how bad I want it. Glad to hear you are holding the line, everydaymatters. But let me tell you, holding that line will get harder to do with every passing day. As the EA progesses, and it will, the urge to cross that line will become so unbearable..not just mentally...but your whole body will ache for it...scream for it. An EA is sweet torture. I came on LS at this point..ready to cross that line of no return. Posters shouted, "Don't do it. Don't go there." Of course their main reason was for me to not betray my husband. But let me add this. If you cross that line, you not only betray your husband, you betray yourself...your values, your morals, your sense of self. AND... Your OM will lose respect for you. He will see you in a different light. He sees you as a love interest now. But once you cross that line, he will see you as a cheater. Unbelievable how a single kiss, wrapped in love, can turn something so seemingly beautiful into something so ugly. In normal relationships this doesn't happen. A kiss is just a progression into something more beautiful. But in an emotional affair, a kiss is a giant leap into sexual infidelity. It uncovers a very ugly side of you and your affair partner. All of a sudden you look at each other, not as love interests, but as CHEATERS. Yes, your affair partner will lose respect. I think that is what held me back more than anything. I cared about him and I wanted him to respect me. He wanted to cross the line, so did I, but I knew if we did, he would only see me as a cheater then. There was no way to separate the kiss from the cheating aspect of it. More importantly than him losing respect for you is you losing respect for YOU. It is so very hard to get that back. My affair ended a year ago without a single kiss. I am still struggling to gain my sense of self-respect, dignity, and integrity that the EA stole from me. You might want to consider starting your own thread so that other posters can give input into your situation..if you are up for that. Just a suggestion.
DNU1 Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Love this line from Dr. Phil: "Don't know if it's wrong? If you wouldn't do it with your spouse standing right beside you, it's wrong." GREAT quote! Pretty simple, huh? I also read that it is perfectly NORMAL to develop attractions, crushes, etc to other people while married. In the healthiest marriages, guess what they do? The talk about it together. Imagine that? NO SECRETS! Openness and Honesty. No Secrets. Transperency. Great ways to start a marriage and keep it strong!
mmk1 Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 It was the result of an attraction and spark that had been building through several years of friendship and it felt like a magical moment that build over the following months as we took it further. No, my W and her H were not on our minds.
taylor Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 It was the result of an attraction and spark that had been building through several years of friendship and it felt like a magical moment that build over the following months as we took it further. No, my W and her H were not on our minds. So, where does that magical moment stand right now?
Author foreal Posted August 15, 2009 Author Posted August 15, 2009 wow...from the responses, I think I may need to rethink what I thought my H was thinking- It seems as though the BH/BW is not in the picture AT ALL...at least BEFORE that line is crossed...the WS seems very wrapped up in these feelings of euphoria...almost like a teen crush where the AP is just 'dreamy' (enter butterflies and the music please). AFTER the line is crossed it seems the WS is then hit with the 'uh-ohs' but by then, the dye is cast, as the saying goes...and they are hooked on the 'high'... THEN they think of BS in between their fixes....like a yellow DO NOT CROSS police tape goes up and around the affair and their minds just keep out until it is safe to duck under the tape again... I wish I could just work my brain like that...it would be most helpful to put up that yellow tape around my thoughts of my H's unfaithfulness ...and yea, I'd like a side of that high sh** too...
taylor Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 It seems as though the BH/BW is not in the picture AT ALL...at least BEFORE that line is crossed...the WS seems very wrapped up in these feelings of euphoria...almost like a teen crush where the AP is just 'dreamy' (enter butterflies and the music please). Think of it this way, foreal: An affair is like a freight train moving at full steam, not about to slow down for pedestrians crossing the track. When in the throes of an affair, affair partners are mezmerised with each other. All focus is on each other. EVERYTHING and EVERYONE else is blocked out. Even time stands still. And you are right..it's after the deed is done that affair partners start to realize what they did. Doesn't stop them, tho. Not always. But the thinking changes. Their choice to be with the affair partner is weighed against the risk of being found out..of facing some consequences. Usually the affair partner wins out because the euphoric feelings are just too good to let go off. And they do get hooked on the high. I wish I could just work my brain like that The thing is the brain is not the driving force in affairs. It's pure, intensified emotion.
Author foreal Posted August 15, 2009 Author Posted August 15, 2009 Think of it this way, foreal: An affair is like a freight train moving at full steam, not about to slow down for pedestrians crossing the track. When in the throes of an affair, affair partners are mezmerised with each other. All focus is on each other. EVERYTHING and EVERYONE else is blocked out. Even time stands still. And you are right..it's after the deed is done that affair partners start to realize what they did. Doesn't stop them, tho. Not always. But the thinking changes. Their choice to be with the affair partner is weighed against the risk of being found out..of facing some consequences. Usually the affair partner wins out because the euphoric feelings are just too good to let go off. And they do get hooked on the high. The thing is the brain is not the driving force in affairs. It's pure, intensified emotion. The thing is the brain is not the driving force in affairs. It's pure, intensified emotion. Ahhh! OMG! Too true! But that makes me feel horrible as that means my H had these intense emotions for someone else...or geez, i like to kid myself it was the FEELING he had the emotion for,not HER, but how can it be just the feeling? Some posters say it could have been anyone the WS betrays with...I think it had to be HER (she was my friend, ya, nice friend I know) It hurts so much.
taylor Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 The thing is the brain is not the driving force in affairs. It's pure, intensified emotion. Ahhh! OMG! Too true! But that makes me feel horrible as that means my H had these intense emotions for someone else...or geez, i like to kid myself it was the FEELING he had the emotion for,not HER, but how can it be just the feeling? Some posters say it could have been anyone the WS betrays with...I think it had to be HER (she was my friend, ya, nice friend I know) It hurts so much. I don't like that statement, it could have been anyone the WS betrays with. Sounds like the WS just grabbed the first living, breathing human that passed his way. I don't think it can be just ANYBODY. It has to be someone you have a connection with and an attraction to..unless it's a one-night stand in which case the connection amounts to only, "Ya wanna?" But it doesn't necessarily mean the affair partner would be life choice..as in committed, long-term relationship with a future. The affair partner serves a purpose..to make the WS FEEL GOOD in some way..emotionally, physically or both. It isn't so much how he feels about HER, it's all about how she makes him feel about himself. Any person who can make another person feel good about themselves will do as an affair partner, and if there is also a sexual attraction, well, you've got a winner. But that isn't just anybody. I worked at a place crawling with men. The only one I connected with and had a sexual attraction to was the OM. He was the one. Not just anybody.
Author foreal Posted August 15, 2009 Author Posted August 15, 2009 It has to be someone you have a connection with and an attraction to..unless it's a one-night stand in which case the connection amounts to only, "Ya wanna?" But it doesn't necessarily mean the affair partner would be life choice..as in committed, long-term relationship with a future. The affair partner serves a purpose..to make the WS FEEL GOOD in some way..emotionally, physically or both. Taylor I cannot express how grateful I am to you for your feedback. I am getting it. It still hurts, but I am getting it. Thank you, Taylor.
everydaymatters Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 Thank you Taylor! I very much appreciate your sharing your experience and insight with us. I have no plans to cross the line for the very reason that you listed, and I don't think that the OM does either. You are right when you said that it gets more difficult to hold the line with each passing day, and that my body will ache for it, because it does. I know that he can see it in my eyes. I was planning to divorce my H before I ever met the OM, and I will have to wait until that takes place before anything physical can happen. Not only is it important to respect myself, his respect for me means even more. I also think that he would damage his own self respect if he crossed that line with a married woman. I don't think that he's even thought about our friendship being an emotional affair. Sorry for the rambling post...
Spark1111 Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 It has to be someone you have a connection with and an attraction to..unless it's a one-night stand in which case the connection amounts to only, "Ya wanna?" But it doesn't necessarily mean the affair partner would be life choice..as in committed, long-term relationship with a future. The affair partner serves a purpose..to make the WS FEEL GOOD in some way..emotionally, physically or both. Taylor I cannot express how grateful I am to you for your feedback. I am getting it. It still hurts, but I am getting it. Thank you, Taylor. Foreal, I too get it and I too still hurt. Here's why: We never got the opportunity to make our spouses feel good about themselves like the OW did. She saw him with new eyes that reflected admiration and validation for all he was or pretended to be while with her. We were home taking care of the kids, the house, the bills, waiting for someone, (HIM) to validate and admire us, too. I think we both grew complacent about the relationship, but we both so needed or wanted the same things from each other: respect, affection and appreciation. Had he TURNED TOWARDS ME, and not away from me for those needs, I would have been SO THERE for him! That's what still so hurts. But he CHOSE to have those needs met elsewhere, having lumped me and the kids and his stressors into one big pile of "what is not making me happy anymore." He never gave me, us, the chance. The underlying emotion to this sentiment is: Resentment.
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