Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I originally dated my ex when I was 23 for 2.5yrs. I am now 32/he 34. I broke up with him b/c I felt he was immature and we had first worked together but then went long distance for a while (LA-NY). I'm longest realationship he has had and since then he has dated max 3-4 months. We have kept in touch over the years maybe meetin 1-2x per year - his pursuit. I was even going to Paris for a reunion with friends end of 2005 where he timed his trip (lived in London then) that weekend and paid $600 to travel there for 24hrs. He asked if we could share a room b/c of the cost and I said only with two beds. We ended up both in NY and the pattern of him asking to meet up was there. But he has also helped me with my job searches each time and even was a reference for my recent job (when i got it in 2006). I always acted a bit distant/cold in person. We had long dinner in Jan and we started to meeting casually while he was in midst of quitting job. I didn't know he was dating someone which is why it was casual but He broke up with someone he was dating for 3 months to date me in mid-March before he moved 1.5hrs away to Philly (10 days later). He had quit his job to start a new company (which is really ramping up now and has 90% of his life savings in). He was really all in - came with me to Paris/London and planned a nice weekend in London - invited me in advance to 2 weddings. Anyway, I was still cold and quite disagreeable. I can see now it was some passive aggressive b/c I didn't know if this was real and he was really now mature. I was also this way with sex which seems to have really hurt him. I wanted to be slow honestly and he wanted a full blown relationship all at once and felt unwanted. He finally told me he was upset (first time, 2wks after Paris) in Mid-May and he asked for a 1mth break to think it over - said things like I didn't compliment him, do little things for him like he did for me. he said this was first time he put himself in 100% but he fell off cliff (emotions) after my coldness continued in Paris. he said we would need to restart. I gave him my fully unguarded self and explained. We had a lot of intense talks and saw each other 3x that week even with the distance (had great sex during wk). During the break, I did nice things (sent him cookies I baked, mixed cd, cards being very open and real). The brk ended last wk and he told me he felt we didn't work and so it means we shouldn't be together. He said we didnt get along and I told him it's b/c I was guarded. He didn't give me a chance to restart. I did tell him I wanted to make it work and proposed some of things I could do. I'm NC now because over the month I gave him the real showing of my efforts and told him. He doesn't seem open to trying to work it out. He said if we get together, he sees us being ok - not great like what he aims for. I didn't argue during the breakup talk (was all day). He emphasized that I'm self-centered many times - he's almost angry when he says it. He even talked to a passenger on a bus who told him that my behavior was enough for him to break up by text. so whatever version is in his head is quite grand. I'm saddened b/c i've now known him for 9 yrs and he had high expectations. My therapist said he is angry and sounds vulnerable b/c he has made overtures over the years and didn't feel it was reciprocated esp. this time and I should contact him soon to show what I think and he has impacted me. But I think NC is the way. Thoughts?
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Sorry it's a bit long, but would love your thoughts. I have done NC since the break-up so last talked June 21st.
westrock Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Here's what stood out to me from your post: I always acted a bit distant/cold in person. Anyway, I was still cold and quite disagreeable. He emphasized that I'm self-centered many times My therapist said he is angry and sounds vulnerable b/c he has made overtures over the years and didn't feel it was reciprocated esp. this time and I should contact him soon to show what I think and he has impacted me. But I think NC is the way. Thoughts? What do you want to happen? If you want to move on then stick with NC. But if you want to reconcile, NC is not the way to go. NC will just reinforce to him that you are distant/cold and self-centered. I say follow the advice of your therapist and contact him as long as you understand that your efforts may be too little too late.
loveshy Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I guess you like the attention he gives you.. but when he backs off you start missing him.. And when he gets back.. you again start pushing him.. Be resolute and make things work out. Contact him and tell him that you love him and want to be with him!!! What your waiting for !! Tell him that you want to take things slow!!!! It might take some time before everything in the relationship gets healed!!
asuman Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 He's fed up with running face-first into your wall again and again over the course of 9 years. Going NC with him will simply prove that he made the right decision, in this instance. It may be too late, but if you have a chance, you need to reach out to him. That's what my gut says.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 He's fed up with running face-first into your wall again and again over the course of 9 years. Going NC with him will simply prove that he made the right decision, in this instance. It may be too late, but if you have a chance, you need to reach out to him. That's what my gut says. Thanks for your thoughts. The 2.5yrs of dating I didn't have a wall. It was after the break-up that it developed. I felt hurt when I broke up with him the first time - I was putting more into it than he was that first time. But I think you are right that he got fed up and thought about the last 6 yrs. I wanted to give it a couple of weeks of thoughts first because often when you respond very quickly - it can just seem like a quick response versus after deeper reflection (like now). I'm conscious that he is at a critical stage to start his new company too and wanted to think properly before making the contact.
loveshy Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Whatever you do.. dont break it up again.. Both parties get hurt again and again..
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Whatever you do.. dont break it up again.. Both parties get hurt again and again.. I do wish it was my choice. He broke up with me. I have really thought about everything and I brought the dynamic from the last 6 yrs (not from our dating) into it until he told me but I didn't get a chance to try our relationship again with this knowledge and me unguarded which is what I am now. I wish he gave me another chance. Before the 1mth break, he told me I was worth fighting for but he would need to flush out the thoughts from his head. But when the break ended, it seemed he hasn't been able to. I didn't know it would be a breakup talk and so I didn't prepare myself as well for that talk. I let him critique me for the most part, but even that he said we were only talking about me (pointing to my being self-centered). I didn't want to critique him b/c I came to reconcile.
asuman Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Thanks for your thoughts. The 2.5yrs of dating I didn't have a wall. It was after the break-up that it developed. I felt hurt when I broke up with him the first time - I was putting more into it than he was that first time. But I think you are right that he got fed up and thought about the last 6 yrs. I wanted to give it a couple of weeks of thoughts first because often when you respond very quickly - it can just seem like a quick response versus after deeper reflection (like now). I'm conscious that he is at a critical stage to start his new company too and wanted to think properly before making the contact. Sounds like a good and sensible plan to me.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 I think it would not be wise to ask for him back either? I will approach this as catching up but one thing I want to do is allow him to feel validated as far as talking about anything that upset him. He only mentioned I have been mean in last 6yrs and I didn't ask further. I think if he has anger, the best is for him to air it out and me to show understanding if there is any chance of diffusing it. So I will not outright ask for him back and will let him explain his upset over last 6yrs so I have fair understanding of what I think I know. My main problem here is he is remembering me in a negative light and the only way to change that is not really talk but positive experiences but this is best way I can start. Does that sound right?
asuman Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I think it would not be wise to ask for him back either? I will approach this as catching up but one thing I want to do is allow him to feel validated as far as talking about anything that upset him. He only mentioned I have been mean in last 6yrs and I didn't ask further. I think if he has anger, the best is for him to air it out and me to show understanding if there is any chance of diffusing it. So I will not outright ask for him back and will let him explain his upset over last 6yrs so I have fair understanding of what I think I know. My main problem here is he is remembering me in a negative light and the only way to change that is not really talk but positive experiences but this is best way I can start. Does that sound right? I would say that not being pushy is always a superior strategy to being pushy. You two have a long and complicated history together. If I were in his shoes (I'm a 30something guy), I would prefer that at some point you be direct and honest with me. I would prefer that you come to me and say, "I know how things have been in the past and I think I understand the reasons why we've gotten to where we are now. We can talk about that more. But for now, I want you to know that I really love you, I want to be with you, and I want to start a fresh, new relationship with you. Are you willing to give this a chance?" If you were to say that to me and I told you, "No," you can rest assured that there is nothing in the world you could have done or said differently to get a different answer. And if he does say no, at that point, you really should consider going into NC for a long time and moving on with your life. Given your long history together, who knows what would happen in the future, but I wouldn't suggest waiting around for it.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Thanks this is great advice and it's especially helpful that you are in your 30s too. I think the first conversation will be more along the lines I wrote above - catch-up and at least see what he meant by last 6yrs so he can have his disappointment validated. I mean he may still be angry - not sure. I think you are right that I can be direct though to be fair he did come to me with a decision. I didn't respond as resolutely as you proposed though so there is still room from that front. Time is still better for that though right? Esp. if he may have some anger? What's an appropriate time? I will do the catch-up earlier - like next 1-2 weeks and get feelers on mood then first. Something which wasn't a positive factor - during this break one of his best friends who is now a biz partner (and old roommate when we first date) is in his apt was they start business. When I was there he was there about 1 month and apparently is on a break with his wife of 2years! Anyway i didn't realize till i got there to have discussion - bad influence. I can only imagine. . .. I would say that not being pushy is always a superior strategy to being pushy. You two have a long and complicated history together. If I were in his shoes (I'm a 30something guy), I would prefer that at some point you be direct and honest with me. I would prefer that you come to me and say, "I know how things have been in the past and I think I understand the reasons why we've gotten to where we are now. We can talk about that more. But for now, I want you to know that I really love you, I want to be with you, and I want to start a fresh, new relationship with you. Are you willing to give this a chance?" If you were to say that to me and I told you, "No," you can rest assured that there is nothing in the world you could have done or said differently to get a different answer. And if he does say no, at that point, you really should consider going into NC for a long time and moving on with your life. Given your long history together, who knows what would happen in the future, but I wouldn't suggest waiting around for it.
asuman Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Thanks this is great advice and it's especially helpful that you are in your 30s too. I think the first conversation will be more along the lines I wrote above - catch-up and at least see what he meant by last 6yrs so he can have his disappointment validated. I mean he may still be angry - not sure. I think you are right that I can be direct though to be fair he did come to me with a decision. I didn't respond as resolutely as you proposed though so there is still room from that front. Time is still better for that though right? Esp. if he may have some anger? What's an appropriate time? I will do the catch-up earlier - like next 1-2 weeks and get feelers on mood then first. Something which wasn't a positive factor - during this break one of his best friends who is now a biz partner (and old roommate when we first date) is in his apt was they start business. When I was there he was there about 1 month and apparently is on a break with his wife of 2years! Anyway i didn't realize till i got there to have discussion - bad influence. I can only imagine. . .. Yes, I'd say the more patient you can be for now, the better. (Don't be overly patient later though, if he says no. There is a time to move on.) A catch-up talk a few weeks from now, followed by your direct proposition to him to get back together, sounds reasonable to me. I wouldn't over-analyze his "influences". People are typically prone to listen to the advice of others that they choose to listen to, and disregard the advice of those they disagree with. I'm not going to desert a girlfriend who I really want to be with just because my best friend thinks I should, no matter how strongly he feels about it. What you're engaging in is the same thing that all of us, me included, do when we really want someone who may have left us: strategizing our campaign and mission tactics to get them back. Most of the time, we make things too complicated for our own good. The simple truth is that if he still has feelings for you and is willing to give things another shot, it will work out. And if he doesn't, it won't.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 I've done almost 2wks of NC now and so i'm not at the stage of any desperation. I just thought I would mention about his surroundings. I know this may be a full zero. I can accept that now and the NC has helped with that. I know I can last longer doing it and that has helped put things in perspective. Definitely when i started I went through the pain that is normal (feeling bad, spontaneous random tears etc.). I am doing much better now. I can wait and that's b/c I'm at ease knowing it may not work out at this point. That is also a reason I am not rushing to make contact etc. I don't want it to be on hold indefinitely though and I am looking for distractions in meantime;) Thanks again - I also agree that if it is meant to be, it will be and so that's why I don't believe in being pushy - not that I have ever been particularly pushy with men. Yes, I'd say the more patient you can be for now, the better. (Don't be overly patient later though, if he says no. There is a time to move on.) A catch-up talk a few weeks from now, followed by your direct proposition to him to get back together, sounds reasonable to me. I wouldn't over-analyze his "influences". People are typically prone to listen to the advice of others that they choose to listen to, and disregard the advice of those they disagree with. I'm not going to desert a girlfriend who I really want to be with just because my best friend thinks I should, no matter how strongly he feels about it. What you're engaging in is the same thing that all of us, me included, do when we really want someone who may have left us: strategizing our campaign and mission tactics to get them back. Most of the time, we make things too complicated for our own good. The simple truth is that if he still has feelings for you and is willing to give things another shot, it will work out. And if he doesn't, it won't.
asuman Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I've done almost 2wks of NC now and so i'm not at the stage of any desperation. I just thought I would mention about his surroundings. I know this may be a full zero. I can accept that now and the NC has helped with that. I know I can last longer doing it and that has helped put things in perspective. Definitely when i started I went through the pain that is normal (feeling bad, spontaneous random tears etc.). I am doing much better now. I can wait and that's b/c I'm at ease knowing it may not work out at this point. That is also a reason I am not rushing to make contact etc. I don't want it to be on hold indefinitely though and I am looking for distractions in meantime;) Thanks again - I also agree that if it is meant to be, it will be and so that's why I don't believe in being pushy - not that I have ever been particularly pushy with men. I feel for you. I was in a similar state of anguish just days ago. I got my answer recently about whether I should keep hoping or not (she's with someone, so the answer was no), and I'm beginning to return to my normal cheerful self now that I've accepted the outcome. You will get there too.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 I'm in a pretty good state now. I was speaking about my sadness which occurred more at the beginning of NC. The truth is I had decided to move on already. I mean if it is meant to be, it will be no? Since my behavior is a factor I wasn't sure if it applies. I met with my therapist this week and she mentioned that his anger is really due to him being vulnerable etc. I went to her for 6months and ended January and so I only went to her now after a long absence to "wrap this up in my head" and she gave me different advice. She told me to contact him. This is why I'm considering that now. I otherwise was doing the move-on already. Given all these factors, this is why I'm reconsidering not doing 100% NC now. She said to contact him soon and I'm going with a more patient approach. Does that make sense? I feel for you. I was in a similar state of anguish just days ago. I got my answer recently about whether I should keep hoping or not (she's with someone, so the answer was no), and I'm beginning to return to my normal cheerful self now that I've accepted the outcome. You will get there too.
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 My ex called me today to wish my a happy 4th of July. We ended up catching up and then also he apologized about some of the strong language he used during the breakup. I also told him that I had not given him any feedback but if he wanted - and i gave it to him. Since I have know him for 9 years, i was able to talk to him about how he has changed and may not changed as far as relationships etc. It was an interesting discussion. I know that we have all learned a lot in this ordeal. It was almost 2 hours. the call was important as it lifted a weight from my shoulders - that anger I didn't feel was fully justified. I really didn't like it and it seems he is past that. I gave him feedback as well. we shared some kind words for each other (always love each other, have a special place in our hearts etc.) and there is no change of status. I wouldn't ask for him back anyway esp. as he has issues that have come to light. I gave him some feedback. He said he will be in NY in next couple of weeks and we should get something to eat. He also finally admitted that we had really bad circumstances before us while we tried to start dating (lots of volatility in his life). He is working now to launch the business and is working quite a bit round the clock. Anyway, it just helps to lighten my load of that anger.
asuman Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Sounds like things are going in a positive direction (positive in the sense of your healing and being at peace, that is).
Author Girlygirl1977 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 Sounds like things are going in a positive direction (positive in the sense of your healing and being at peace, that is). I think the longer/previous history helps because there is at least a lot more honesty between us. I also discussed how it was difficult for him to have viewed me as perfect then the opposite. Anyway - it is good when someone is open to feedback. He gave me some time. So it is healthy in that way. Given I can see the error of my behavior too, I did let him know that I am sorry for the attitude I brought over the last 6 years. I told him as well that if anything every happens - illness, financial, death in family etc., he should know he can always contact me. I was not showing this over last 6yrs I have to admit. He also needs to focus on his business for next 6 months - seems more pressure there than he initially admitted. I am doing well but I cannot ask for him back. Our dialogue is open enough that, if he wants to he can. Otherwise, I've been going out a lot and making new friends. I have an important interview Monday and so that is now my focus. It is helpful to have the anger weight gone because I didn't feel good having it.
asuman Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 I think the longer/previous history helps because there is at least a lot more honesty between us. I also discussed how it was difficult for him to have viewed me as perfect then the opposite. Anyway - it is good when someone is open to feedback. He gave me some time. So it is healthy in that way. Given I can see the error of my behavior too, I did let him know that I am sorry for the attitude I brought over the last 6 years. I told him as well that if anything every happens - illness, financial, death in family etc., he should know he can always contact me. I was not showing this over last 6yrs I have to admit. He also needs to focus on his business for next 6 months - seems more pressure there than he initially admitted. I am doing well but I cannot ask for him back. Our dialogue is open enough that, if he wants to he can. Otherwise, I've been going out a lot and making new friends. I have an important interview Monday and so that is now my focus. It is helpful to have the anger weight gone because I didn't feel good having it. I think I know what you mean regarding the anger weight. It's a common (and useful) tool to get over someone by being pissed at them. I tried it for a time with my current "ex" but quickly gave up because it was too artificial. As much as my friends wanted to make up reasons to hate her guts, nothing negative actually happened between us. We dated for a few months, it was lovely, and then we went our separate ways in an amicable manner. What's the hatred going to be based on given those facts? I've managed to start letting her go without any anger being involved. The result is the same. Even in your situation, where you're not necessarily giving up on the situation, you will still be able to approach it better by calming your emotions and letting him calm his as well, before broaching the topic of getting back together. Time and space are always a good thing.
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