SoulSearch_CO Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 I'm just curious to hear everybody's take on this. I've been married once before. It was for 4 1/2 years nearly to the day. We lived together for almost a year before getting married, had been dating each other for a year and 3 months. Had I not been married to my XH when he cheated on me, I really do think it would have been easier on my conscience to leave. It had been drilled into my brain from very early, though, that marriage is something you just don't give up on. So quite honestly, I feel like I wasted 4 years of my life (he first cheated on me 2 months after we got hitched). I wouldn't have kept delaying the inevitable had we not been married. So...moving on into a new relationship, naturally the thought of, "Would I marry this person" comes to my brain. Well, first of all I know it's going to take awhile before I'm ready to be married again. I'm just not ready for that step. So I had to wonder if I'll ever want to get married again. I went through all this trouble to get my maiden name back after the divorce on all my accounts/documents/etc. I like my maiden name. I don't know if I'd ever take on a married name again even if I did get married. Well, I have sat and wondered - what IS the purpose of marriage? Is it maybe an outdated concept? If I'm fully committed to my partner and I know he is committed, too - why do I need a piece of paper to prove anything? If we speak loving words about one another to each of our families/friends - doesn't that "show how much we love each other?" If we both make our own money and pay our own bills - I have no need of financial protection via a piece of paper. I guess all my romantic ideas about marriage went into the trash chute when my XH cheated on me - waiting until AFTER we were married to do so and he had plenty of opportunity before that. The only reason I can really see to get married is for cheaper taxes. Well, shoot - let me add real quick because I did think of a couple others - being able to visit your SO in the hospital, being their automatic next of kin (unless otherwise designated - obviously). So not to sound too cynical - but what is the practical purpose of getting married in this day and age?
Trialbyfire Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Soulsearch, I was where you're standing now, so I can relate. For the longest of time, the thought of marriage was the last thing I wanted to do. Now almost 2.5 years after D-day of his infidelity, guess what? I pulled a 180 degree turn. It's about finding the right person who will bring back all the reasons why you wanted to get married in the first place. It's to be with someone who you want to have and to hold, love, honour and cherish, for the rest of your lives. As for practical reasons, that's the last thing on our minds now, although we've taken care of practical details by both of us getting prenups drafted up.
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted March 10, 2009 Author Posted March 10, 2009 It's about finding the right person who will bring back all the reasons why you wanted to get married in the first place. So if I don't feel THAT right now in my less than 2-month old relationship...am I with the wrong person? (Kind of more of a rhetorical question, I guess - I feel blessed to have him and feel happy every day waking up knowing he's in my life - so it feels "right" to me.) It's to be with someone who you want to have and to hold, love, honour and cherish, for the rest of your lives. But isn't that something you could have even without the piece of paper? Somebody could go out with their loved one and profess vows of love without being legally bound to them - how is it different except in the eyes of the law? I'm not picking apart what you said - these are just some of the thoughts that I have had IRT marriage. Your answer touched my heart and I was happy to hear it. Thanks for your response.
Trimmer Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 So not to sound too cynical - but what is the practical purpose of getting married in this day and age? Well, I'm pretty much with you. My story is much like yours, although we were married for longer (~13 years, depending on whether you count to D-day or the finalized divorce) and have two kids. And I was dedicated and committed right to the last. But now I kind of look at it like: eh..... I'm not bitter, not even cynical particularly, just kind of ambivalent and maybe a little mystified, like you: What's the point? Can I actually imagine doing that again? I really don't see it, but on the other hand, I didn't "see myself" getting married before I met my ex-wife, either, so that does lend some credence to TBF's point that it's about the right person coming along. I take solace in the fact that I'm not bitter, not cynical, and that I feel complete as an individual without feeling like I have to hunt someone down to complete me. That way, I hope that when I do stumble across someone who is important to me, I'll be ready to share my life with her, but not depend on her to complete something that's missing, or fill some empty part of my life. But will I get married? Hard to say. I'm pretty ambivalent.
fral945 Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Well, I have sat and wondered - what IS the purpose of marriage? Is it maybe an outdated concept? It’s varied quite a bit throughout history, but the only two purposes consistent to nearly every society (from what I have read) were to have children and create family ties. The new purpose of marriage doesn’t require either of those but has a lot more expectations. I'm not exactly sure what the new purpose is, but I know it includes all kinds of romantic ideals, which by and large are not practical. Like the expectation of sexual and emotional monogamy, loving only one person, etc. I don’t think it is outdated in it’s original context, because the original purpose was quite practical. Personally, I think what killed marriage were the chivalry and courtship ideals and notions from the romantic era. It wasn't much about emotional fulfillment before that. Now it is based heavily on feelings and emotions, which are by their very nature transient and volatile. I actually like the fact that it is more based on meeting emotional needs, but people just need to acknowledge that that makes it less stable. If I'm fully committed to my partner and I know he is committed, too - why do I need a piece of paper to prove anything? If we speak loving words about one another to each of our families/friends - doesn't that "show how much we love each other?" If we both make our own money and pay our own bills - I have no need of financial protection via a piece of paper. You don’t. You’ll just have to deal with societal stigma and pressure from people that believe it is the right way. The only reason I can really see to get married is for cheaper taxes. :confused:Well, shoot - let me add real quick because I did think of a couple others - being able to visit your SO in the hospital, being their automatic next of kin (unless otherwise designated - obviously). So not to sound too cynical - but what is the practical purpose of getting married in this day and age? Beyond what you said, not many other practical purposes I can think of. I don't think you're being too cynical, just acknowledging the reality you've experienced and what you see around you. I call that realistic.
serial muse Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 So if I don't feel THAT right now in my less than 2-month old relationship...am I with the wrong person? (Kind of more of a rhetorical question, I guess - I feel blessed to have him and feel happy every day waking up knowing he's in my life - so it feels "right" to me.) But isn't that something you could have even without the piece of paper? Somebody could go out with their loved one and profess vows of love without being legally bound to them - how is it different except in the eyes of the law? I'm not picking apart what you said - these are just some of the thoughts that I have had IRT marriage. Your answer touched my heart and I was happy to hear it. Thanks for your response. I, too, have been in that exact same position - sometimes I still am unsure what I think about marriage. I've been in a relationship now for about 2.5 years - not the first one since my divorce (my exH also cheated). It's been about five years since I split up with my ex, and I was a bit all over the map about my feelings about relationships, marriage, etc., for a while. I feel much more stable now, but it took me a while to be willing to trust again and to think of marriage as anything more than a farce. The right person is definitely a factor, but I think there's also an opening up and a willingness to feel vulnerable again that occurs in a different timeframe for each person. TBF found a great guy, but I suspect she's also at the right place in her life to try again. For me, it's taken a bit longer to feel willing to think idealistically and to be trusting. I think of marriage differently than I once did, and I think I always will - there's a more muted, "well but" quality to the romantic ideal. But to be honest, I do know now that I can see it in a romantic light, and that's an improvement for me. Whether or not I remarry, I feel joy for those of my friends who've found their partners and formed that bond. I still think there's something beautiful about it as an expression of deep, hopefully lifelong commitment. I know that I have hesitation about trusting myself to such a bond right now - but I sense glacial progress in me about it. I've considered the practical aspects of the matter - in today's society, to be honest, I think there are ways around them for the most part, so I'm not sure they would be a defining consideration for me. In a way, perhaps, I feel more idealistic about marriage than I used to - if I ever do it again, I really don't want it to be for largely practical reasons. Not worth the trouble. Either way - I just wanted to say that while your relationship matters, I don't think that's necessarily the most important factor. I think there's something inside you that tells you if you're ready, or if you just see marriage as simply not right for you anymore.
Trialbyfire Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 So if I don't feel THAT right now in my less than 2-month old relationship...am I with the wrong person? (Kind of more of a rhetorical question, I guess - I feel blessed to have him and feel happy every day waking up knowing he's in my life - so it feels "right" to me.)I think serial muse hit it on the nose, in that it's not just your partner but also if and when you get in the right mindset. I had to go through some personal evolution, of which included the ejection of negative influences in my life, then reground to something within me. Previous to that, there was a portion of me that was dependent, since I wasn't certain I could trust my own judgement for people pickers. Now I have full confidence in that portion, albeit not a perfect process, so I was able to open up again with the consistent love of a wonderful man. That negative emotion of distrust, did nothing but erode on me. On the otherhand, I found that the distrust of particular individuals, was my gut instinct reacting, which turned out to be accurate. In the end, there were reasons for double vision. But isn't that something you could have even without the piece of paper? Somebody could go out with their loved one and profess vows of love without being legally bound to them - how is it different except in the eyes of the law?Marriage isn't necessary but it was his language of love, how he chose to tell me in actions that he loved me. Sure, his words were said previous but his actions resonated deeper. Once again, there's zero practicality in getting married. It's the love as you make it, idealism at its worst! I'm not picking apart what you said - these are just some of the thoughts that I have had IRT marriage. Your answer touched my heart and I was happy to hear it. Thanks for your response.No worries. I didn't take it that way at all. This is a discussion, batting around similar or differing opinions. Thanks.
Kasan Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Well, after thinking about this for awhile now, I can honestly say, without reservation, I have no idea what the purpose of marriage is, other than to give any progeny that results, a name. Now, I want you to know that I'm not bitter and have been married for 30+ years. The years have been good, the kids are successful, we still enjoy each other's company, but I believe that I could have had the same relationship with him, with or without a marriage license. This piece of paper didn't/couldn't define our relationship, nor would it have been enough to keep us together, should one of us have decided to call it quits. Perhaps more examination should be done on why getting married is the logical choice to further a relationship. I am also very encouraged to see that marriages seem to be happening (statistically) later, then they did when I got married back in prehistoric times.:D I'm not really sure that if I had to do it over, I would marry at all. We aren't the same people that we were 30+ years ago. The whole concept of your mate being the "one" just doesn't sit right with me. There are many "ones" out there for us, as evidenced by how many times we all fall in and out of love. I often wonder what our society would look like without the institution of marriage.
Mr. Lucky Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 This piece of paper didn't/couldn't define our relationship, nor would it have been enough to keep us together, should one of us have decided to call it quits. Kasan, I disagree with this simply because I think that the piece of paper is one more line of defense against all the challenges you face as a couple. It's like tying yourself to mast during stormy seas - sometimes your status as legally wed is the only thing that keeps one of you from being swept away. Certainly doesn't work in all cases, but many times it helps... Mr. Lucky
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted March 11, 2009 Author Posted March 11, 2009 Kasan, I disagree with this simply because I think that the piece of paper is one more line of defense against all the challenges you face as a couple. It's like tying yourself to mast during stormy seas - sometimes your status as legally wed is the only thing that keeps one of you from being swept away. Certainly doesn't work in all cases, but many times it helps... Mr. Lucky But isn't it sometimes an excuse to cling to the mast of a sinking ship? In my case, I could have lived more life in those 4 years on my own had I felt more free to leave. BUT...and a big BUT...I do know that I did a ton of growing in that 4 years of marriage and I have learned to be a better partner. So I can't say the entire 4 years was a waste. I would just say that sometimes that piece of paper can feel more like a prison than a lifeline. I appreciate everybody's views on this - I find it quite fascinating. My definition of marriage is still evolving. I was raised with those idealistic romantic visions of marriage. I NEVER thought I would get divorced. In fact, it's really hard to think of myself as having one failed marriage under my belt - it just doesn't seem to fit. Looking forward to marriage, quite honestly I think the only way I'd really consider doing it again is if I could see that it would benefit both of us. As I was telling my BF, for a lot of people, getting that piece of paper just gives the two people an excuse to let go and not really put forth as much effort anymore. So I guess I see it as a way to lower your standards in the relationship because the other person is "stuck" now and can't leave as easily. I'm not saying this is the case for everybody - I know that good marriages exist out there (heck - my BF's parents are adorable together - 35 years of marriage). But I guess because of my experience with marriage, it really bit me hard and I have to evaluate if it's something I'd ever do again. I'd have to be really, really, really sure. And I thought I WAS sure with my last relationship. It may just take time.
clv0116 Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 So not to sound too cynical - but what is the practical purpose of getting married in this day and age? To provide the best known and most socially acceptable structure for raising a family within.
OWoman Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I'm a newlywed, having just returned from the most perfect wedding, the most glorious honeymoon and the most welcoming inclusion into my new family. I can state without a trace of cynicism that, were it not for the practicalities (my getting right to remain in H's country; he getting right to remain in mine) we wouldn't have done it. Not that we don't love each other or want to commit to being together - we do. But M is a contract between two people and the State, and I don't believe the State has any business in our bedroom (or kitchen, or lounge, or bathroom). It also brings with it a whole pile of societal expectations, and a whole host of one's own preconceptions and prejudices - all of which I fell we could happily do without.
fral945 Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I was raised with those idealistic romantic visions of marriage. Just out of curiosity (and maybe this is another thread altogether) but where did you get your idealistic views on marriage from?
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted March 11, 2009 Author Posted March 11, 2009 I was raised LDS (Mormon). Girls are heavily taught/trained up for a temple marriage - a forever marriage. We were constantly inundated with pictures of married couples outside the temple, stories of people married in the temple, and promises that such a thing would bring us forever happiness. Divorce is a major black mark in the church - ESPECIALLY if you were married to that person in the temple.
Woggle Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Marriage is what a couple makes it. The rituals of the wedding do hold some meaning to me but if you ask me the state would be better staying out of it. I do value the vows but keep the lawyers and judges out of it especially if a divorce happens.
taylor Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 To provide the best known and most socially acceptable structure for raising a family within. But there are plenty of family units with unmarried couples living together raising children.
clv0116 Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 But there are plenty of family units with unmarried couples living together raising children. Start a thread, I'll play.
Lizzie60 Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I see absolutely no reason (except for a financial (pension) point of view).. other than that.. no reason at all..
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