Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 ...when they have their first child. I had been seeing a woman, in her late 20's....I'm in my mid 30's. She said she is looking for a guy that can support her when she has a child for at least 2 years (so she can take time off of work). It makes sense, because if you send a child to day care, appaerntly that time in a childs life is really impressionable...and that using a daycare to care of a child is not healthy. And it's good to have the mother stay home and take care of the kid But she's wanting to find a man that is able to support her and her child DURING that time she's taking care of her kid. Now, this is not a "gold digging" attitude,but it does sound logical...but I'm not sure If I am able to do that at MY income level. Is it too m uch for her to ask...or is she being reasonable? Part of me thinks it's not too much to ask, but I don't know if I'd be up to the job at my income.
2sure Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 She isnt looking for a man to support and her and her child, she is looking for a man who has the same ideas on child rearing as she has - before they have a child together. I would say that when planning for the future and considering a spouse or mate it is a GREAT idea to find a person who has the same family values , priorities, and plans as yourself.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 She isnt looking for a man to support and her and her child, she is looking for a man who has the same ideas on child rearing as she has - before they have a child together. I would say that when planning for the future and considering a spouse or mate it is a GREAT idea to find a person who has the same family values , priorities, and plans as yourself. True...however, there's alot of men out there who have meager incomes. Also....is she willing to live like a pauper for 2 years. Because I am the kind of person that can find bargains Shop at the Goodwill for children clothes and such. Thrift shops as well
2sure Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 If being able to stay home with her child and be financially well off are priorities to her, she is not wrong to pursue that. If she finds a guy that doesnt mind "doing without" when the kids are young, and doesnt mind herself...then there is no problem. Difficulties arise, life changes and sometimes things dont work out like we plan. Money , sadly, DOES make everything easier. But a spouse who liked to find a BARGAIN - priceless! Most people would like to stay home with their small children and most people cant. Its a problem all over the country.
berrieh Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I don't think that's a wholly uncommon viewpoint for people to have. Personally, I adore working, but I think even I might want to take 1-2 years off of traditional work in the early years (or have my husband do so), depending on my workload, my husband's family, etc. I would probably still have a means of income, but not a full salary, and thus would need someone who was willing to save for that period and/or could support the family in the meantime. I agree that the first few years is a terrible time to stick kids in daycare. I don't think that's a bad value to have. Personally, I don't have extended family to help out with the kids; some people do, some don't. Nor do I even think women who want a man to support them are bad, provided they plan to provide something to the partnership (keep the house, rear the kids, etc), if that's how they view things. It's not my path -- I'd have to go back to work after a year or so. But there are a myriad of ways to raise a family, and, as 2sure notes, it's important that both partners be on the same page. The fact of the matter is that income matters when you're talking about having kids. I really don't care what a man makes, but if I were to have children with someone, I would want our total incomes to be 100K+ or for us to have that potential. Since my income will most likely not be even half of that until I'm 30, if someone wanted to have children with me, I'd want his salary to be in the 60K+ range, probably. It has nothing to do with wanting someone to support me (I do that just fine on far less than half of that right now), but just what I think is best for raising a child. If you're not up to the job at your income level, don't see that changing, etc, then perhaps a woman with her values wouldn't work out with you. That does happen.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 I don't think that's a wholly uncommon viewpoint for people to have. Personally, I adore working, but I think even I might want to take 1-2 years off of traditional work in the early years (or have my husband do so), depending on my workload, my husband's family, etc. I would probably still have a means of income, but not a full salary, and thus would need someone who was willing to save for that period and/or could support the family in the meantime. I agree that the first few years is a terrible time to stick kids in daycare. I don't think that's a bad value to have. Personally, I don't have extended family to help out with the kids; some people do, some don't. Nor do I even think women who want a man to support them are bad, provided they plan to provide something to the partnership (keep the house, rear the kids, etc), if that's how they view things. It's not my path -- I'd have to go back to work after a year or so. But there are a myriad of ways to raise a family, and, as 2sure notes, it's important that both partners be on the same page. The fact of the matter is that income matters when you're talking about having kids. I really don't care what a man makes, but if I were to have children with someone, I would want our total incomes to be 100K+ or for us to have that potential. Since my income will most likely not be even half of that until I'm 30, if someone wanted to have children with me, I'd want his salary to be in the 60K+ range, probably. It has nothing to do with wanting someone to support me (I do that just fine on far less than half of that right now), but just what I think is best for raising a child. If you're not up to the job at your income level, don't see that changing, etc, then perhaps a woman with her values wouldn't work out with you. That does happen. Yeah..but the thing is...she has old-fashioned values..and I like that...and I think she likes the fact I have old fashioned values as well...but I don't think it's possible to live back in the days where fathers could support entire families one their income alone. We're old fashioned, but can't LIVE old-fashioned-like. Know what I mean...today's society isn't conducive to that...esp with our current state of affairs.
me4u2 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Nope, not gold digging, proper planning is what it is. She doesn't want to get into a situation where she has a baby and assumes you are on the same wave length about what should happen and then poof here come all the arguments about who will be working, how much time off, what's best for child, etc.
2sure Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 It isnt. Many many people have kids thinking everything will work itself out. The financial responsibility is HUGE. It is a struggle for everyone, and usually both parents end up having to work. Listening to someone who has no children and is not financially very stable say they are going to stay home with their babies because thats what good moms do...is irritating because....of course its best! Who wouldn't? But for many many families, that isnt realistic, its a dream. Dont have the kids and hope it works out. Have a realistic plan .
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Nope, not gold digging, proper planning is what it is. She doesn't want to get into a situation where she has a baby and assumes you are on the same wave length about what should happen and then poof here come all the arguments about who will be working, how much time off, what's best for child, etc. Guess it's a catch 22 situation then. My job isn't all that lucrative enough to support a family. Perhaps its good to "save up" prior to having children. That's another option.
Gremio Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Yeah..but the thing is...she has old-fashioned values..and I like that...and I think she likes the fact I have old fashioned values as well...but I don't think it's possible to live back in the days where fathers could support entire families one their income alone. We're old fashioned, but can't LIVE old-fashioned-like. Know what I mean...today's society isn't conducive to that...esp with our current state of affairs. I am old-fashioned per se. I believe in holding the door, being a gentlemen, paying on the first date, etc. BUT I also believe in equal rights in todays world. I was in a relationship where the woman had parents where the father was a high ranking official in a hospital. Mother was a housewife. They had multiple homes, cars etc. The problem with this? This woman had a degree and a high salary as well, and actually made more than I did. Where I didn't see eye to eye is that she expected for me to pay for everything every time. She wanted to work, but she wanted the old fashioned housewife routine also.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 I am old-fashioned per se. I believe in holding the door, being a gentlemen, paying on the first date, etc. BUT I also believe in equal rights in todays world. I was in a relationship where the woman had parents where the father was a high ranking official in a hospital. Mother was a housewife. They had multiple homes, cars etc. The problem with this? This woman had a degree and a high salary as well, and actually made more than I did. Where I didn't see eye to eye is that she expected for me to pay for everything every time. She wanted to work, but she wanted the old fashioned housewife routine also. Yeah, typically, if a woman comes from an upbringing like that....she will mostly follow suit, if her mother did it, so will she. I personally think she's asking too much with the way society is today to expect a man to support her and her child. Unless you can come up with some kind of savings plan.
D-Jam Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I think it's perfectly ok for a woman to want to find someone who could support her and a child for 2 years or so...as a maternal leave. However, in today's climate, she might find that difficult to achieve...especially as she gets older. Times changed, and most men even with college degrees and careers can't really afford to be the sole provider. It's not their fault, but more that it's a big expense now. I have a Masters and a career, but even I couldn't afford to be a sole provider. On top of that, the financial burden, as well as fears of being "used", or comfort in a childless life, make many men reluctant to become parents. When I hear guys in the "locker room" talk...the attitude comes out that kids are wonderful, but a major financial burden, and even some guys are more on the logic of "I want to stay single and free"...in a sense "buying" hot girls for flings with their good incomes. Others are just distrustful if said women are really in love with them, or are looking for just a wallet and a sperm bank. I'm not saying women who want to take a maternal leave are SOL, but I will say that this girl trying to find a man whom she finds attractive AND he finds her attractive AND he wants a family AND is willing to be a sole provider for a while AND he treats women right AND he makes the kind of income she wants in a man...it's not going to be an easy task, especially with loads of competition out there amongst women for those men. MY FEELINGS? I think she should not worry hardcore about income and if he can be a sole provider for a while and instead look for a man who she finds attractive, will treat her well, wants a family, and has a stable career. Find a guy who will be a solid and loving partner for you for life. If he can't afford to be a sole provider, then the solution is both man and woman marry and MAKE A PLAN. Maybe both work for a few years and save up enough money so that one can take off for 2 years to have a baby. Also decide what they can or can't live without. So maybe they can't have cable TV, or a house in the expensive neighborhood, or they only own one car, and shop at Aldi as opposed to Whole Foods. They live frugally, and make it work. Sounds more like a better plan than "find a provider".
stefspets Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I find it interesting the salaries that you (generally speaking in this thread) would like to have prior to having children. I know cost of living has increased since I was born (I am 24 now), but I know my parents were not well off at the time. My mom didn't work and my dad made around $30k; they had two kids. We didn't get everything we wanted, but we turned out fine. I guess my viewpoint is that it's a matter of sacrifice for the things that you want most. It may be difficult but it's not impossible. Maybe I am too optimistic?
fral945 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 That sounds reasonable, assuming she is reasonable about her material expectations and spending. I actually hope I find a woman one day with that attitude. It sounds like you may not be living with all the comfortable material possessions if you do decide to go that route, but you both may be comfortable with that. I find that most modern women have high expectations with respect to material possessions that almost require both people to work. Granted, it's tougher nowadays, but expectations of what we should have are higher as well. Your GF may be different, only you can say for sure. Find out how much she is willing to sacrifice. Say, for example, if you have to cut back on cable TV or cell phone, get rid of TV, cut back on eating out, etc. See how she reacts when you bring up those possibilities. Maybe even do a cost-analysis of what you're spending will be like and show her how much discretionary spending you will have per month. That should give you a better gauge. She may not be willing to sacrifice a certain comfort level. If that's the case, I'd bring up the possibility of her working part-time somewhere.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 That sounds reasonable, assuming she is reasonable about her material expectations and spending. I actually hope I find a woman one day with that attitude. It sounds like you may not be living with all the comfortable material possessions if you do decide to go that route, but you both may be comfortable with that. I find that most modern women have high expectations with respect to material possessions that almost require both people to work. Granted, it's tougher nowadays, but expectations of what we should have are higher as well. Your GF may be different, only you can say for sure. Find out how much she is willing to sacrifice. Say, for example, if you have to cut back on cable TV or cell phone, get rid of TV, cut back on eating out, etc. See how she reacts when you bring up those possibilities. Maybe even do a cost-analysis of what you're spending will be like and show her how much discretionary spending you will have per month. That should give you a better gauge. She may not be willing to sacrifice a certain comfort level. If that's the case, I'd bring up the possibility of her working part-time somewhere. She comes from the Philippines, just to give you n idea.
corazoncito Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 It's actually a good idea to run the numbers. Daycare can be very expensive. I know moms who would be ok with working part-time to help out with household expenses but still be able to dedicate a good chunk of time to their young child. But unless they have family willing to provide the daycare for free, it often doesn't make financial sense. The mom's part-time salary would pretty much just cover the daycare. So she would need to work full-time to have any real "take home" pay. Some parents feel that in that case, it's better to make some financial sacrifices until the child can start pre-school. It depends on the family and their specific financial circumstances.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 It's actually a good idea to run the numbers. Daycare can be very expensive. I know moms who would be ok with working part-time to help out with household expenses but still be able to dedicate a good chunk of time to their young child. But unless they have family willing to provide the daycare for free, it often doesn't make financial sense. The mom's part-time salary would pretty much just cover the daycare. So she would need to work full-time to have any real "take home" pay. Some parents feel that in that case, it's better to make some financial sacrifices until the child can start pre-school. It depends on the family and their specific financial circumstances. Well, they say (the experts) if not the mother, then have some family member help out while the mother works.
corazoncito Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Not everyone lives near their family. It's not always an option.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Bells, It would be their child would it not??? Its also IMO not a great idea to have children straight away. The couple should have time to establish the marriage first, idealy. So, say if during the first two years she were to continue working and the couple saved her income and learned to manage on that, that extra money would be around to subsidize the next two years. Honestly, while we don't have the money woes we did initially, the best years of our lives were those first 5 when we were dirt poor, but so proud of making it all work together. Seriously, our only treat for quite a few years was to order pizza in on Friday night and play scrabble and watch movies. I've got to warn you though, putting a 2 year old in day care (all day) after you've been home with them, is going to be TOUGH!!! One option though would be to hire someone to come in to take care of them during the day and help out with the housekeeping and errands. They need to be socialized also, and while I stayed home with mine, I used a mom's day out or montesory for a half a day 2 days a week to get them used to that type of environment before pre-K. Also, it's not unheard of these days to work from home, or to take a parttime weekend job.
Author Bells Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Not everyone lives near their family. It's not always an option. True....she's the only one in this country..her family is back home.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 It's actually a good idea to run the numbers. Daycare can be very expensive. I know moms who would be ok with working part-time to help out with household expenses but still be able to dedicate a good chunk of time to their young child. A good daycare around here cost as much or more than the private schools.
Trialbyfire Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 If you can't afford to have children, don't do it. Save up, no matter what. This will ensure that you have a nest egg, that can bridge you over rough times, regardless of children or not.
corazoncito Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Its also IMO not a great idea to have children straight away. The couple should have time to establish the marriage first, idealy. So, say if during the first two years she were to continue working and the couple saved her income and learned to manage on that, that extra money would be around to subsidize the next two years. I think this is a good strategy. You have a chance to "test drive" your finances before you have a small child depending on you. And I think it's important to be flexible and have a contingency plan or two in place. Kids have a way of throwing illogical logistics into the most carefully thought through planning.
D-Jam Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Lots of great ideas...but it also stands to show that having children is something both sides are a part of. Everything from expenses to changing diapers. A plan will go way further than just seeking out a provider.
norajane Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 It isnt. Many many people have kids thinking everything will work itself out. The financial responsibility is HUGE. It is a struggle for everyone, and usually both parents end up having to work. Listening to someone who has no children and is not financially very stable say they are going to stay home with their babies because thats what good moms do...is irritating because....of course its best! Who wouldn't? But for many many families, that isnt realistic, its a dream. Dont have the kids and hope it works out. Have a realistic plan . People who put raising children as a top priority absolutely have to have a plan AND sacrifice. One parent needs to have a stable, decent paying job with good health insurance for the family, at a minimum. After that, there are options and they all involve sacrifices. My parents were poor immigrants and BOTH worked throughout my sister's and my childhoods. They managed it by working split shifts at full time jobs - there was no other way for them to manage no nannies or babysitters, and be able to pay bills for a modest lifestyle, plus put us both through college. Not everyone can manage such a schedule and keep their marriages alive since the couple hardly gets to see each other during the week. Other options will require saving up a lot so that one spouse doesn't work at all. Or having one spouse work part-time evenings when the other spouse is able to be with the kids in the evening after work. This is also hard on the couple in terms of time together. The last and most desirable option, which is not available to many, is the working spouse get paid a lot, enough to cover everything. So, if the lady in question can't accept or discuss the sacrifices that may be required, unappealing schedules, no vacations, smaller house, fewer cars, no manolo blahniks, no private schools for the kids, etc., in order to focus on child raising while her husband brings in the only income, then you have a big problem.
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