Career Women......

[fral945]

Do any of you men find career women attractive or appealing? There was another thread on here about house husbands that made me think of this.

 

IMO, a women who is very career driven is unattractive. I don't have a problem with a woman who has a job or career, I just prefer a woman who puts more importance on having a good family over having a good career. I find most career women to be type A personalities (highly competitive, assertive, aggressive, etc.). These are generally traits in a woman that are turn-offs to me. Maybe I'm old-fashioned or set in my ways, IDK. Just wanted to get some different opinions.

[Stockalone]

No, career women are not that attractive to me. Especially if she is a woman who highly values her independence and emphasises that she doesn't need a man. Then it is a turn-off for me.

 

I am not as ambitious as they are and I want/need to be needed in a relationship, that usually makes me unattractive as a partner for them too. It's just incompatible personalities, some people are simply not a good match.

[lovestruck818]

I don't think it's fair or correct to say that a career woman is aggressive or highly competitive, in fact if I were a guy I would try & seek out a career woman for myself. I am 26-year-old career woman. I do well for my age financially, own a house, and at the same time, am very well-respected at my job and in my field of work. I am not highly-competitive or aggressive. I am very down to earth and fun and have an immensely good work ethic...but at the same time, I would not consider myself to be a "workaholic." I want the family life, I want to get married...and I believe it IS possible to be both a wife and mother AND a career woman. Ambition should not be a turn-off. Nothing wrong with a woman who can make a good respectable living.

[Trialbyfire]

I do agree that there would be serious compatibility issues between a husband that believes the little woman should be at home and a woman who believes in keeping her options open between family and career.

 

Men and women need to look at beliefs, values and goals in life, and be honest to each other about them. If the two don't mesh, don't bother proceeding to second base, if you're looking for long-term potential.

 

Myself, I'm a "career" woman and will always be. The way that my ex-H and I balanced our needs was for me to wind down my career a bit, work from home to set up our future for a family. We would hire full time domestic help for both kids and housework, so no one lacks care or takes on an unfair burden. I could still spend a lot of time with the kids during the day, while also being able to maintain my career and interests. I would go insane being strictly in a vegetative state.

 

As it currently stands, being unmarried, I still might have one child on my own. For balance, my parents have enthusiastically suggested that they would be more than happy to be caregivers. It's a def. consideration, not because I can't "find" a mate but that I'm not certain I want to give up my personal freedom for another run at the altar. The last time wasn't worth the experience.

[JamesM]

If the definition of "career woman" is one that puts her career before her family or husband, then no I would not want.

 

BUT...in fairness then, the definition of a "career man" is a man who puts his career before his family or wife. I do not want to be one of those.

 

However, if you define a career woman as one who has a job and raises a family, then I see no problem as long as the family does not suffer. So it should be that the husband does not spend his time with his career and slips a few minutes in every day for his family. Both the mother and the father should be a part of the household.

 

And if you are not even thinking that far ahead, then it comes down to the man and woman putting the marriage before their careers.

 

Does a career for a woman hurt the family? It all depends on how the career is prioritized. This applies to the man as well.

 

Personally, I have a wife who has a career. It definitely helps her overall, and she does not put her children after her career for the most part. When she needs to do so, then she has a husband who is there to fill in.

[fral945]

Myself, I'm a "career" woman and will always be.

 

Are the men you have been involved with generally "career" oriented as well? Or do you go for less career oriented men to balance you out?

 

Myself, I'm a "career" woman and will always be. The way that my ex-H and I balanced our needs was for me to wind down my career a bit, work from home to set up our future for a family. We would hire full time domestic help for both kids and housework, so no one lacks care or takes on an unfair burden. I could still spend a lot of time with the kids during the day, while also being able to maintain my career and interests. I would go insane being strictly in a vegetative state

 

I'm a little confused by your wording. Is that the situation you want or the situation you had with your ex?

[Trialbyfire]

Are the men you have been involved with generally "career" oriented as well? Or do you go for less career oriented men to balance you out?

Most were intensely career oriented as well. My ex-H made Executive VP before he hit 30, so you can imagine how driven he was and still is. This appears to be the type of man I mesh well with. Highly confident and intensely focused.

 

I'm a little confused by your wording. Is that the situation you want or the situation you had with your ex?

We headed down that path when I gave up my external career to become self-employed, working from home. Thank goodness we never got to the point of actually breeding since I was still getting started when it hit the fan! Our plan was to bring in full-time domestic help when we had children. We already had part-time domestic help.

[audrey_1]

I'm not really sure what the alternative is in the beginning. If you're a single woman, say, in her 30s, you have to be somewhat focused on career, as you're responsible for your own survival. I don't think having a desire to succeed or to be good at what you do is a bad thing. Why should I hide the fact I worked two jobs my senior year of college to make ends meet? Have earned accolades by senior executives in past positions? All due to my hard work and dedication?

 

I do have a drive to be professionally accomplished, but I don't think that makes me less feminine. And I think that hiding this, or giving it up to make a man feel more secure is unwise. This same man who is threatened by the successful woman, is the one who will see her whittle away her self-worth, cheat on her with a younger woman, and then walk away.

 

I say women should keep their values and careers. I'm not saying I would put them before my children or a spouse that treats me well, and that I reciprocate this to. Just that allowing men to assume full responsibility for a family given all we've seen posted on these boards, I believe, would be too much a risk for me to take.

[fral945]

We headed down that path when I gave up my external career to become self-employed, working from home. Thank goodness we never got to the point of actually breeding since I was still getting started when it hit the fan! Our plan was to bring in full-time domestic help when we had children. We already had part-time domestic help.

 

So what was it that "hit the fan"? (if you want to share)

 

Was it a difference in beliefs, values, or goals in life that you discovered?

[Trialbyfire]

So what was it that "hit the fan"? (if you want to share)

 

Was it a difference in beliefs, values, or goals in life that you discovered?

He cheated on me!

 

The difference was his open zipper policy.

 

I can laugh about it now since I'm completely indifferent and glad to be free but it most definitely wasn't an experience I'm eager to repeat.

[fral945]

He cheated on me!

 

The difference was his open zipper policy.

 

I can laugh about it now since I'm completely indifferent and glad to be free but it most definitely wasn't an experience I'm eager to repeat.

 

Ironic how relationships so often come down to the basics.

[Jilly Bean]

Fral, I have been a career power woman.

 

For a few reasons:

 

1 - its circumstantial. I am not a trust-fund baby, so I HAVE to work to support myself. I just happened to end up being really good at what I do. lol

 

2 - I honestly DID enjoy all of the perks of hard work.

 

That being said, I feel like I've done it. In a lot of ways, I have hit the apex of my field. Ive proven to myself that I am successful by my own metrics. This part of my life is very much actualized...

 

Now? I would LOVE to be a housewife. I truly would.

 

I grew up in a very traditional household. Dad worked, Mom was home with the kids until the youngest was a teen. It was NICE. And it WORKED. My Dad was free to pursue his career while my Mom took care of everything home-related. My Dad NEVER devalued her contribution, and it was an excellent partnership. That is my value system, and if I found the right guy, and the right situation, I would give up my career in a second to devote myself to homelife.

 

[fral945]

I want the family life, I want to get married...and I believe it IS possible to be both a wife and mother AND a career woman.

 

I guess that's where I differ with you and other career women. I believe it's possible to do both, but not do both with a great amount of success. One or the other has to suffer.

[fral945]

That is my value system, and if I found the right guy, and the right situation, I would give up my career in a second to devote myself to homelife.

 

 

Jilly,

 

Do the career women you know besides yourself (assuming you know a few) feel the same way? My impression from the ones I've met or dated is that is not the case. IMO there seems to be an unrealistic expectation that they can have it all without any negative consequences.

[Jilly Bean]

Jilly,

 

Do the career women you know besides yourself (assuming you know a few) feel the same way? My impression from the ones I've met or dated is that is not the case. IMO there seems to be an unrealistic expectation that they can have it all without any negative consequences.

 

Not at all.

 

I think I stand VERY much alone in this beliefs.

 

A lot of my friends have tried to do both, and I totally agree with you - I don't think women are superhuman, and I dont think they can be 100% a great Mom, wife AND career woman. Something has to suffer in that equation...

 

Generally, it is the kids, as they are put in day care.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh and fral, I'm type A to the max and am totally unrepentant about it!

[fral945]

Not at all.

 

I think I stand VERY much alone in this beliefs.

 

A lot of my friends have tried to do both, and I totally agree with you - I don't think women are superhuman, and I dont think they can be 100% a great Mom, wife AND career woman. Something has to suffer in that equation...

 

Generally, it is the kids, as they are put in day care.

 

I can't speak for all men, but I don't know any men that put the kind of expectations on themselves that women do in that regard. I know I would have trouble raising a child and having a successful career alone or being highly successful at both. Why do so many women believe they can be superhuman?

 

Oh and fral, I'm type A to the max and am totally unrepentant about it!

 

Considering you've outposted me by 20,000+ posts in a similar time frame, there's no question about that.

[Jilly Bean]

I can't speak for all men, but I don't know any men that put the kind of expectations on themselves that women do in that regard. I know I would have trouble raising a child and having a successful career alone or being highly successful at both. Why do so many women believe they can be superhuman?

 

Because I think this is where feminism did women a gross disservice. They swung the pendulum TOO far, and sold women a bill of goods that they can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let him forget he's a man. Moreso, that they should WANT this, and that the notion of being a homemaker is somehow a sellout.

 

And of course men don't trot around life with such lofty and unrealistic expectations. Why women succumb is beyond me. If she wants a career, then cool. Kick ass at it. If you want kids, then kick ass at that. But IMO, there is no way a woman can be an exemplary employee AND Mom of the year at the same time.

[fral945]

Because I think this is where feminism did women a gross disservice. They swung the pendulum TOO far, and sold women a bill of goods that they can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let him forget he's a man. Moreso, that they should WANT this, and that the notion of being a homemaker is somehow a sellout.

 

And of course men don't trot around life with such lofty and unrealistic expectations. Why women succumb is beyond me. If she wants a career, then cool. Kick ass at it. If you want kids, then kick ass at that. But IMO, there is no way a woman can be an exemplary employee AND Mom of the year at the same time.

 

Will you marry me?

[Kamille]

Couldn't both partners make compromises for the sake of their family and each of their careers?

 

What I've had a problem with in the past is my partners expecting me to give up my career for the sake of theirs - this before children were involved.

[Stockalone]

I'm not really sure what the alternative is in the beginning. If you're a single woman, say, in her 30s, you have to be somewhat focused on career, as you're responsible for your own survival. I don't think having a desire to succeed or to be good at what you do is a bad thing. Why should I hide the fact I worked two jobs my senior year of college to make ends meet? Have earned accolades by senior executives in past positions? All due to my hard work and dedication?

 

For the purpose of this thread and in regards to the house husband thread, when I read "career woman", I assumed that fral meant the following type:

 

A woman who emphasisis how strong and independent she is, how (highly) successful in her field of work she is. How she doesn't need a man in her life.

 

Whenever I hear that, I think of a woman who is overbearing and is going to tell men what exactly it takes to be a "real man". It makes me think that such a woman also first and foremost sees a man in her life as a convenience.

 

I do think of it in a negative way. Much like the the threads where some women assume that a "nice guy" is automatically a doormat.

 

Am I intimidated by those career women? No.

 

Obviously, not every woman who works is such a "career woman". It is great that women find jobs they like and if they are also good at a job they like, that is even better. But when I think of reasons why I want to date a woman, her professional achievements or her income are not really on the list.

 

 

I do have a drive to be professionally accomplished, but I don't think that makes me less feminine. And I think that hiding this, or giving it up to make a man feel more secure is unwise. This same man who is threatened by the successful woman, is the one who will see her whittle away her self-worth, cheat on her with a younger woman, and then walk away.

 

How does it make a man insecure if he wants his wife to stay at home for a couple of years when they have kids?

 

If a man wants his wife to be a SAHM, he is insecure. If he wants to become a SAHD (while his wife works) because he believes that it will benefit the kids, he is a wussy.

 

You can easily turn your argument around:

 

I do have a drive to provide my children with the best possible care they can get, and that can in my opinion only be provided by a parent. But I don't think that makes the man less masculine. And I think that hiding this, or giving it up to make a woman feel more secure in her view of what a "real man" should be like, is unwise. This same woman who is threatened by the caring, sensitive man, is the one who will see him whittle away his self-worth (meaning, she will emasculate him by questioning his status as a man because - gasp - he wants to take care of his own children), cheat on him with a more daring man at work, and then walk away to trade him in for a more ambitious man as soon as the kids are grown.

 

 

I say women should keep their values and careers. I'm not saying I would put them before my children or a spouse that treats me well, and that I reciprocate this to. Just that allowing men to assume full responsibility for a family given all we've seen posted on these boards, I believe, would be too much a risk for me to take.

 

You make it sound like we men want to chain you to the stove for the rest of your life.

 

In my case I would be asking for a couple of years, and I would be willing to invest a few years myself, along with acknowledging your "sacrifice" for putting your career on the back burner.

[Jilly Bean]

Will you marry me?

 

lol. So long as you bring home the bacon.

 

Then Ill fry it up in a pan and never let you forget you're a man!

 

But really, a lot of men don't seem to be too into a traditional arrangement anymore. Scratch that - the guys I know back east are, but the west coast boys don't dig the option.

[fral945]

lol. So long as you bring home the bacon.

 

Then Ill fry it up in a pan and never let you forget you're a man!

 

I like mine extra crispy.

 

But really, a lot of men don't seem to be too into a traditional arrangement anymore. Scratch that - the guys I know back east are, but the west coast boys don't dig the option.

 

I'm practical and for what works in life. That's why I posted in the other forum that I wouldn't be against being a house husband. I could honestly be the breadwinner or the house husband, whichever one makes more practical sense in the situation. However, my personal preference is the traditional arrangement, with me working outside the home.

[Jilly Bean]

I like mine extra crispy.

 

 

 

I'm practical and for what works in life. That's why I posted in the other forum that I wouldn't be against being a house husband. I could honestly be the breadwinner or the house husband, whichever one makes more practical sense in the situation. However, my personal preference is the traditional arrangement, with me working outside the home.

 

OK, let's set a date!

 

FWIW, I think a lot of it has to do with how people were raised. Many people in their 20's and 30's are the product of broken homes, and were raised by single Moms, so I think they have a different perspective on marriage and lifestyles. My folks are still married, and even when my Mom went back to school and then to work by her OWN choice, my Dad never expected her to still make dinner for him every night. He then kicked in and helped her out more. Then again, she wasn't taking care of kids anymore, so she needed to find fulfillment elsewhere (outside the home).

[audrey_1]

For the purpose of this thread and in regards to the house husband thread, when I read "career woman", I assumed that fral meant the following type:

 

A woman who emphasisis how strong and independent she is, how (highly) successful in her field of work she is. How she doesn't need a man in her life.

 

Whenever I hear that, I think of a woman who is overbearing and is going to tell men what exactly it takes to be a "real man". It makes me think that such a woman also first and foremost sees a man in her life as a convenience.

 

I would never tell a man exactly what it takes for him to be a "real man." Men, like women, are so varied in their temperaments, desires, that this would be impossible, and I lack the insight to be able to declare this for any man. Truly.

 

I am still working on the type of woman I wish to be.

I do think of it in a negative way. Much like the the threads where some women assume that a "nice guy" is automatically a doormat.

 

Understood. I am very much enamored with the "nice guy." With me, they don't finish last, but I have found that my independence has been misconstrued where men *think* I see them as convenience. I am still working on how to reconcile this when dating, so men aren't turned away by feeling I'm somehow emasculating them. It's me making an honest attempt at not seeming too needy, but perhaps I make them feel like they're not needed at all. I'm working on this balance, but it's a difficult line to draw. What JB said is true about feminism being a disservice toward this situation.

Am I intimidated by those career women? No.

 

Obviously, not every woman who works is such a "career woman". It is great that women find jobs they like and if they are also good at a job they like, that is even better. But when I think of reasons why I want to date a woman, her professional achievements or her income are not really on the list.

 

Good point. The crux of my relationship that just ended hinged on this point. He said what he'd never found was a woman with a certain independence, and when he got it, I think he realized it's not what he wanted after all. He lost his job, and was struggling with his self-worth as a result. I assured him my interest was in *him* not what he could or couldn't provide me. It didn't matter. All of the women he dated before me needed him, and he felt like their caretaker. In his case, this is the dynamic he prefers and is now dating someone more along these lines.

 

How does it make a man insecure if he wants his wife to stay at home for a couple of years when they have kids?

 

If a man wants his wife to be a SAHM, he is insecure. If he wants to become a SAHD (while his wife works) because he believes that it will benefit the kids, he is a wussy.

 

You can easily turn your argument around:

 

I do have a drive to provide my children with the best possible care they can get, and that can in my opinion only be provided by a parent. But I don't think that makes the man less masculine. And I think that hiding this, or giving it up to make a woman feel more secure in her view of what a "real man" should be like, is unwise. This same woman who is threatened by the caring, sensitive man, is the one who will see him whittle away his self-worth (meaning, she will emasculate him by questioning his status as a man because - gasp - he wants to take care of his own children), cheat on him with a more daring man at work, and then walk away to trade him in for a more ambitious man as soon as the kids are grown.

 

This is true. It can always go both ways. I would be conflicted about the man staying home, because I would be missing those tender early moments with the children. By me staying home, I would be a bit stir crazy not working in the fast-paced profession I've become accustomed to. Either way would be a compromise.

 

 

You make it sound like we men want to chain you to the stove for the rest of your life.

 

In my case I would be asking for a couple of years, and I would be willing to invest a few years myself, along with acknowledging your "sacrifice" for putting your career on the back burner.

 

I also said in my post I would have no problems staying home with children during their formative years, to ensure proper development. I would prefer it, but I probably would go back to work at some point, because it is something I am compelled to do. I'm not sure I could completely trade in my career. I've worked too hard and have a lot to offer. The decision would require communication and compromise, and I hope that one day I'm lucky enough to have a spouse who could be my partner in this.

 

But for now, I'm just the career woman.