Problems now out in the open

[Alvy Singer]

Hi,

 

This is my first post. A little background:

 

I'm male, 26, and I've been married to my wife (27) for almost four years. We were best friends for a few years before that and remained so until recently when we've started to drift apart.

 

In January 2008 she moved to London (two hours away by train) for work. It was a fantastic career opportunity for her and I was never going to stand in her way. It meant we'd be living apart, which wasn't ideal, but we told ourselves it wasn't going to be forever. Besides, we'd still see each other most weekends.

 

Oh, I should mention that I also have a fantastic job and despite me suggesting I move to London so we can stay together, she keeps saying that she couldn't ever live with herself if she made me give up my dream job.

 

Anyway, since she moved to London she's become much more independent and has made some great friends. She's told me a few times how much happier she is now and how much fun she has in her new life.

 

Things between us, however, haven't really been the same since she moved. We hardly have anything to say to each other on the phone and when we do see each other in person it all seems a little forced.

 

Last weekend I suggested I move to London because "this isn't really working, is it?". That was the catalyst for a really honest and open conversation between us. It was all very rational and mature - we admitted things aren't the same and she told me she didn't know how she felt about me anymore. She said she was no longer the same person she was when we lived together.

 

I know where I stand. My ideal scenario is that we rediscover what we've lost, even if that means me giving up my dream job and moving to London to be with her. She doesn't seem so certain that she wants to get back what we lost.

 

Because of this indecision, we've suggested that for the month of September we don't see or speak to each other (not that difficult since we already live in different cities, remember). Hopefully that time will help us/her figure out our true feelings.

 

The thing is, we've never had a single fight. There's absolutely no bitterness between us - I'm sad that she doesn't feel the same way about me anymore but I can't be angry at her for that. I will fight as hard as I can to keep us together, but only if that's what we BOTH want. I won't try and make her stay if she doesn't want to. That's not healthy for either of us.

 

Am I right to be thinking like this? I can't help but feel I should be fighting a lot harder to save this marriage. But I feel like the ball's now in her court.

 

Have we rushed too quickly to this stage? Should we be seeking counselling before we seriously consider life without each other?

 

Thanks for listening. Advice or questions most appreciated.

 

Alvy

[TrustInYourself]

It's fairly natural to feel this way after a major life change. I'm not sure if a month apart is going to fix the relationship. The long distance is just going to reinforce the fact that you are different people, living different lives.

 

Does she want to work on your marriage? If not? Why?

 

Also, I'm concerned about you. This has to be hard. How are you coping?

[imagine]

You seem to be pretty ambivalent about your marriage. You were willing to risk your marriage by letting it go long distance for the sake of a career. You accept the BS about people changing. Sure... circumstances, contacts, frame of reference and even behavior patterns may change. People don't change.

 

Are you going to fight for your marriage?

 

Right now, she sounds as though she is in an emotional affair (EA) or possibly even a Passionate Affair (PA).

 

Take some time off and do some quiet investigation.

 

Check out the marriage builder website and do some serious reading.

 

Don't wimp out!

[Billy Bob]

Right now, she sounds as though she is in an emotional affair (EA) or possibly even a Passionate Affair (PA).

 

That's what it sounds like to me as well... Idle hands are a devil's playground. She's no longer the same person because she's met someone else.

[Trimmer]

Because of this indecision, we've suggested that for the month of September we don't see or speak to each other (not that difficult since we already live in different cities, remember). Hopefully that time will help us/her figure out our true feelings.

Somehow that always sounds like code for "I'm pretty sure I don't want to be with you any more, and I want to try it out to be sure, while keeping you on the hook, just in case I change my mind."

 

I think an important part of such a trial separation is to agree what your boundaries will be about "seeing" other people. If you did not discuss this, if you are just "assuming" that you both feel the same way, be very careful. Don't assume it's obvious what the other person's boundaries are if you haven't discussed it.

[Gunny376]

Most people don't have the mental self control and self discipline of handling a situation such as you've described. Being in a committed long term relationship and then suddenly going from the security and comfort of that to essentially being "single" its only a matter of time before time, opportunity, and temptation can and will creep it.

 

Things get foggy from there, and once you've danced with the Devil, you don't change him, he changes you!

 

And whle none of us can say with absolute certainty that's she's having an affair of any kind on any level, it would be in your best interest to conduct your affairs from that assumption.

 

People don't value what they have for sure and certain, but what they don't have or can never have. People that have a million dollars in the bank don't value it, (unless there's the threat of losing it all) but place more and a higher value upon having ten million.

 

A lot of people are like this ~ I'm not. I'm perfectlly content with the concept of "having less is having more"

 

My point? The DW will only begin to value you IF she preceives the very real reality of losing you forever. The old "I'm a man, I've got my pride! I don't need some woman 'hurtin' me inside!" type mindset.

 

Its not a game, its an all or nothing gambit ~ you've got to be perfectly willing to "walk" and for good!

 

Its really the only gambit you've got in the S&D situation. Its placing a higher value upon yourself than what you've got with her. Your saying, "You may not value me, but I know what I'm worth, and whatever you've got to offer me, whatever you've got to bring to the table? I can find just as good as if not better, just as much of, if not more! I know what and who I'm about!

 

What one woman will abuse? Another can certainly use! And if they can't see that? I don't want nor need them.

 

In short? Your de-valuing what they've got to offer and what they're bringing to the table. When it comes to relationships the one that cares the least ~ wins.

 

Me, myself and I? I've been through the mud, the blood, beer, and horse manure of divorce? What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. My divorce made me stronger. There's not a woman on the planet I can't and won't walk away from.

 

That's the way you've got to be. Go cold, hard NC for three months and you'll find yourself a more co-operative wife.

 

Its like Apollo 13, you've got 1000 things you've got do to fix this, your thinking about No.# 667, and we're still working on No.# 8

 

In short? "Man-Up" and make her respect you. And while it is indeed true you can't make someone respect you! You sure as Hell can not stand there and not disrespect you.

[imagine]

Oh and that idea of not seeing each other for the month of September... Brrrrp!!

 

So the career thing of partial abandonment wasn't enough.... Let's go the whole hog! Ha!

 

I must have funny ideas because I believe that one finds a job to sustain a marriage. Each of you has found a place that sustains a job but guaranteed to break the marriage.

 

WTF.

 

Hmm!!! If I had such a tactical mistake of implementing a long distance marriage, I would apologize for being a sh*t in neglecting the responsibility of holding it together. I most certainly would quit that post and begin looking for a job (any job initially) that keeps me near my wife.

 

You have implemented a plan that absolutely prevents either of you from meeting each others emotional needs. She clearly has been able to replace you with other stimuli that fulfills those needs. I hope for your sake that is not another guy.

 

Sweep her off her feet. Remove that stimulus and replace it with you her husband. But, proceed with caution. Do some reconnaissance first. Snoop around her digs, follow where she goes. Even if she is not cheating, you will be better armed to understand her lifestyle.

 

Husband - Save your marriage!

[imagine]

Oh yeah,

 

I just thunk... If there is an EA at her workplace then SHE needs to quit. Keep us posted if this so.

 

In the meantime do not be whiny and needy. Focus on the marriage! Take her on holiday where there are hot spa baths...

[Alvy Singer]

Original poster here..

 

Thanks for all the replies. Lots to think about...

 

She's told me she definitely isn't seeing anyone else and assures me she'd never do that to me. She just doesn't feel the spark between us anymore.

 

I agree with the people who said that a month apart isn't going to help bring us closer together. In fact, the more I think about it, the more we will only drift apart further.

 

We need to spend MORE time together and communicate more if we're going to save this marriage. Living apart and working in different cities isn't helping. I've told her I'm willing to leave my job and move to London so we can be together again... now it's up to her to tell me she definitely wants to work on this marriage. If she does (I hope she does) then that's what I'll do - then we can spend more time together and hopefully see a marriage counsellor (a suggestion she's already made, in fact) to work things out.

 

She fell in love with me once, so there's no reason she can't again. Right?

 

Thanks everyone.

[imagine]

Matey

 

Don't let the flipping grass grow. Send her flowers at work. Damn it - Show passion.

 

Just supposing that she is actually true (and waywards almost always lie - I think its a rule or something), she has already explained to you that she is settled in her life. What is the motivation to choose you anyway? Pal, you need to be pro-active.

 

The problem with having your little discussion with missus is that she may view your future approaches with suspicion. One method to disarm this is to apologize for your negligence as a husband and that you hope to woo her back forever.

 

Do please note that behaviour consistency is key to gaining a womans confidence.

 

I would not push the matter of going to an MC with her. If you do get one then make sure that they are pro marriage. Find a good one and have their name at hand.

[TrustInYourself]

Integrate yourself into her new lifestyle. Be cautious. Be smooth. Prove your love to her.

 

If there is another man or obstacles, simply destroy them with your own charm and inside track to your own wife.

 

There is no fear unless you create fear. There is no problem, unless you create problems.

 

Be a zen master. Be ready to be surprised by her lifestyle. Take everything in stride and absorb/learn/adapt/overcome.

 

Take it easy.

[imagine]

I like it.

[Billy Bob]

She's told me she definitely isn't seeing anyone else and assures me she'd never do that to me. She just doesn't feel the spark between us anymore.

 

They always say that!

[TrustInYourself]

She's seeing someone. Who cares. You're her husband. If the love is real, it overcomes all odds. If it isn't, then kiss your ass goodbye.

[Owl]

Wrong.

 

If she's seeing someone, then steps have to be taken to deal with that issue directly.

 

Relying on "If the love is real, it overcomes all odds" isn't going to do diddly squat.

 

People can fall "out of love" with someone and "in love" with someone else. Taking direct action to end the affair and preventing it from progressing can save a marriage...and that marriage can recover into something wonderful.

 

Don't rely on cliches to solve your problems.

 

Decide what you want, develop a gameplan to achieve your goals, and work your plan.

 

But the first thing you'll need to decide anything is good intel.

[TrustInYourself]

Wrong.

 

If she's seeing someone, then steps have to be taken to deal with that issue directly.

 

Relying on "If the love is real, it overcomes all odds" isn't going to do diddly squat.

 

People can fall "out of love" with someone and "in love" with someone else. Taking direct action to end the affair and preventing it from progressing can save a marriage...and that marriage can recover into something wonderful.

 

Don't rely on cliches to solve your problems.

 

Decide what you want, develop a gameplan to achieve your goals, and work your plan.

 

But the first thing you'll need to decide anything is good intel.

 

A plan is worthless if she's not willing to work on it. Your steps, plans, goals, and direct action are not going to work if you focus on the other man.

 

These are all remedies for the symptom. The greater issue and more immediate issue is the distance and seperate lifestyle. Jealousy serves no purpose.

[Alvy Singer]

Here's an update on my situation.

 

My wife and I had an honest and open talk tonight on the telephone. A few points:

 

* She says she needs time to work out how she feels about me. She says her life has changed dramatically since she moved to London - she now has good friends (she hardly knew anybody here where I live) and she socialises a lot. She also has a great job that she enjoys (previously, she was miserable in her job).

 

In short, a lot of good things have happened to her in the last six months (since we've been living apart) and now she's not sure "if or how you fit into my new life". She keeps saying she's not the same person and that we don't have fun when we're together like we used to (these days we see each other two or three weekends a month).

 

* We agreed that NC for the month of September won't help anything. We already live in different cities, so not speaking won't help either of us work out how we truly feel about each other.

 

Instead, I suggested I actually come and live with her for two weeks. We need more contact and more communication, so me living with her for two weeks while she goes about her new life will help us see how we can share in each other's lives. It will be a much better way to assess how we can (or can't) make this new phase in our lives work.

 

She thinks this is a good idea and tomorrow I will let my boss know that I want to work from London for two weeks in September.

 

* She insists this isn't about anyone else or wanting to have the opportunity to see other people. She says it's purely about her as a person and her feeling like we don't connect as well as we used to. Our interests are no longer similar, we like doing different things etc..

 

I do believe her on this. She's not the flirty type or even particularly affectionate. She's never enjoyed sex (even before me) and is quite happy going for long periods without it. There's no evidence in emails or phone records of any communication with people I don't know.

 

* In summary, she said she needs more time to work out whether or not she sees her future involving me. I reiterated my desire to make this relationship work and my willingness to quit my job and move down to London to be with her again. I've told her that I'm happy she's a different person now (a more confident, happier person), but that I also want to share in that.

 

I'm seeing her this weekend (my parents are in town, which means we'll be acting as if nothing's wrong) and staying with her for a few days, so hopefully we'll be able to chat further and spend some quality time with each other.

[Owl]

A plan is worthless if she's not willing to work on it. Your steps, plans, goals, and direct action are not going to work if you focus on the other man.

 

These are all remedies for the symptom. The greater issue and more immediate issue is the distance and seperate lifestyle. Jealousy serves no purpose.

 

That's assuming a plan that requires her willing participation. That WOULD be foolish.

 

Nor is it what I'm suggesting at all.

 

Have you read any of the information Ladyjane posted on rebuilding a marriage from infidelity?

[Billy Bob]

I do believe her on this. She's not the flirty type or even particularly affectionate. She's never enjoyed sex (even before me) and is quite happy going for long periods without it.

 

Wow! I'd fight to keep this relationship alive.... Not! A partner who doesn't enjoy sex with you and is not affectionate? Maybe you should re-think your approach to your relationship problems and maybe find someone who does enjoy sex and is affectionate???? It makes life a lot more fun when your partner is into you!

 

I mean step back and really examine your relationship... you have no kids right? She's not that into you right now.. She's not affectionate? She doesn't like sex.. Could be an escape route for you!

[Alvy Singer]

Sorry, "not affectionate" doesn't paint a true picture. Let's just say our relationship's never been all that much about sex or physical attraction. We care about each other an awful lot and we'll hug and cuddle etc, but we don't tear off each other's clothes.

[sfsassy]

Sorry, "not affectionate" doesn't paint a true picture. Let's just say our relationship's never been all that much about sex or physical attraction. We care about each other an awful lot and we'll hug and cuddle etc, but we don't tear off each other's clothes.

Are you two somewhat sexually attracted to each other? I agree that sexual attraction isn't everything, but it is something. I really think you need to address this in counseling. She doesn't seem like she is cheating, or wanting to cheat, but she may see other guys, and feel a certain something, which makes her wonder if you are "right" for her.

[imagine]

Sorry, "not affectionate" doesn't paint a true picture. Let's just say our relationship's never been all that much about sex or physical attraction. We care about each other an awful lot and we'll hug and cuddle etc, but we don't tear off each other's clothes.

 

Zen warrior needs to study science of sex and seduction. No seriously...

[TrustInYourself]

She could be into girls. That might explain the whole tearing the clothes off thing or lack of.