NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Alright... I'm a little frustrated with the whole single mom thing. I'm 31 and it seems that there are no quality women in the area who don't already have a kid or two. So that's who I've ended up getting the most first dates with. Two of these girls pushed for marriage within 3 and 4 months, so I bailed on both after essentially receiving ultimatums and seeing other red flags (the last one told me in bed one night that sex wasn't important after you get married)... Anyways, fast forward and I've had maybe 10-20 other first dates - no fireworks and then this girl e-mails me out of the blue. She's really cute, has her own house, cars, etc., and seemed like a lot of fun. She has a daughter who is 13 (she's 33). So we have three dates and on the fourth (I posted about this in another thread) I cooked her dinner and we watched a movie. We kissed for about 2 minutes and then she bolted (8:20 on a Saturday night). The next day I took her and her daughter out to eat. So, we keep talking this week and decide to go out for, I guess what will be our 6th date. She's bringing her daughter. I guess we're going to go bowling or to the movies. Am I wrong in being a little more than frustrated by the fact that she didn't want to spend much time kissing or being physical after the fourth date but she wants the sixth "date" to include her daughter? I mean, there's absolutely no chance that we'll make out, hold hands or anything tonight. None whatsoever. This doesn't exactly have me excited about the date. I'm pretty disappointed by this (ok, that's an understatement). I still think she's really cool and don't want to upset her or make her mad, either. But.... eventually, dating once or twice a week and having no "alone time" will cause me to bail, there is absolutely no doubt, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to say/do. Suggestions?
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Sorry to say, but a single mom is a package deal. She wants to make sure that you are on board with that. Now, that said I'm a single mom and I wouldn't take my kid out on a date like that but I can sort of understand why she is doing it. She wants to see how you will react - if you react in such a way that lets her know that you see her kid as a hindrance, then you may not be going out with her much longer. Its a tricky thing trying to balance oneself as a woman and oneself as a mother - on one hand you want to be wanted as a woman, but not rejected as a mother. On the other, it is a constant battle to be a "good mom" while balancing the 'non-mom' things in your life such as sex, passion, romance, etc. You don't want your kid to think you are writing him/her off in lieu of a man and you don't want your man to think you are writing him off in lieu of the kids. So, you try to incorporate as much as both as possible. It certainly helps to figure out where a man stands by how he reacts to your kids, and the fact that they are going to be around a good deal of the time - even inconvenient ones.
AussieJack Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Buy a cat and take it along for the kid to play with.
carhill Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 OP, just a wild guess....she bolted because she was turned on and didn't want to "go there" just yet. Ask her when you have some time alone with her. This is a great opportunity to gauge her communications skills and emotional mindset. Ask her about her history and how she and her daughter have interacted with her dates in the past. Listen to her. There's absolutely no reason the two of you can't show normal affection around her daughter. She's the child and you're the adults. She's old enough to know about sexual attraction and adult affection. The adults lead here. Show her your confidence in the relationship (even if you're a bit unsure) and she'll pick up on it. My problem in the past was the kids always gravitated towards me (I love children) and I had to make sure mom got appropriate attention IMO, stop analyzing and start communicating. It sounds like you're dating an attractive, independent, solvent single mom. That's not a bad thing
Author NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the replies. I can't really imagine how hard it is to date as a single parent because I'm not one. Just to clarify, we have had the sex talk. I let her know that I was not out to get her into bed as soon as possible and that I have enough control that I could wait until marriage (maybe saying that was a mistake?).... She said she "probably couldn't wait that long"... That said, I'm not dead, and do like to kiss and do those sorts of things, even if all the clothes stay on. I get the whole "package deal" sentiment. I really do. I wouldn't date single mothers if I hated kids. I enjoy being around kids and doing those sorts of things. Madagascar's one of my favorite movies. It's just that this seems a little "off" already. Only six dates after today and two of them will have been with the daughter there. She really is a cool girl. And I have been around her daughter already. Her daughter is cool, too. Very smart for a typical 13 year old. I'm down with being involved with the daughter, just not sure that I can take every date from now on being the three of us. I just talked to her and we're going bowling right now... so I guess we're not even doing anything tonight... still frustrated. I definitely don't want to say anything to her about it and sound like an ass, which maybe my posts have come across that way. It's just that if we've skipped the "dating" part of this and have already jumped into the whole family thing where the daughter is involved all the time, I don't think I will be able to take it. Basically, I'm looking for ideas on how to broach the subject, if I need to, without hurting her feelings or sounding like an idiot, since I get tongue tied around her as it is! I'm not going to bring it up today at all, and see how it goes. But if we get to next weekend and we plan the third date in a row that includes the daughter, I think I'm going to have to say something. Oh, and I have offered to pay for a sitter. Her sister lives in town, and the daughter stays there whenever she needs to, so it's not the lack of a sitter or money that is the issue here. Edited March 8, 2008 by NuTuDating
Lishy Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 I am more concerned that she is willing to introduce her daughter to a man she does not even know yet!
carhill Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Oh, my, great opportunity for communication. Firstly, be clear that you are a sexual man and you love intimacy (I presume that you do from your post) but want to proceed gradually, as you consider this relationship to be important to you (I presume). Ask her how she feels. Listen. Look into her eyes while you do. Secondly, let her know that you enjoy the "family time" but also want alone adult time to really get to know her as partner. Tonight, after bowling, when you take her and daughter home and daughter goes to bed, it would be a perfect time for a quiet talk. Even a quiet "walk", if weather permits. Focus on "family" fun during the date and don't pull your fun punches because you're wanting alone time. The trick with this communication stuff is making sure you're each being heard and understood. That means you do have to open your mouth Anything else?
carhill Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 I am more concerned that she is willing to introduce her daughter to a man she does not even know yet! Yeah, I noted that concern by earlier recommending asking how things have gone in that regard in the past. IOW, is this usual behavior or "different". The answers may signal the woman's perspective on the relationship and her values in general about her parenting style. IMO, such is individual and I wouldn't pass judgement, as long as everyone is on the same page and the daughter feels safe and respected. IMO, as a teenager, she's more likely to understand the issues, but still can be vulnerable emotionally, so that bears scrutiny. I think the OP and his intended appear thoughtful, so hopefully they'll work it out.
Author NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 Well, we're done bowling - I didn't really have a moment alone. Had a great time bowling and all... but...
Author NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 I'm going to give it another week. But I don't really see how you can even have the discussion about something like this without sounding like an idiot. Really at a loss because she is a cool girl and I have developed some feelings for her. On top of that, her daughter is cute and smart and well behaved, so I definitely wouldn't have any issues whatsoever getting really involved with her, too. I just can't end up in another relationship where I'm just the guy that pays the bills. And yeah, I would stick to dating women without children if the ratio of decent moms to decent women without children wasn't 100:1 in this area.
Legend Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 What area? try plenty of fish dot com Why go for one more date, are you that desperate to spend money? Please buy RAM for my computer. I promise it'll go to a much better cause
Author NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 P.S. - Thanks for everyone's input, esp. Carhill - any more specific suggestions on what I should/could say without screwing this up?
Author NuTuDating Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 Ha, plentyoffish.com is a waste for this town. I did try that site. There's about three women who actually wrote literate introductions. I don't e-mail girls whose introductions are basically a list of can't stands. How much ram do you need and what type? I have extra laying around.
Legend Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Tell her you want alone dates and alone time, if she can't give you what you need, and you keep feeding into the relationship, you're just setting your self up for failure.
amaysngrace Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I think she is playing it safe. She wants to make sure you are worth sleeping with before you actually do. She sounds as if she could pull off time alone with you if she wanted to seeing how she is handling everything else. But maybe she just wants to make sure. Bringing a man around a 13 year old girl is different than bringing a man around a 5 year old child. The older child has a better understanding of what mom is telling her and by not sleeping with you and pawning the child off after six dates is setting a good example. If I were you I'd be glad that she thought enough of you to introduce you to her child. Try not to read too much into it. She's cool. Don't blow it by being uncool.
carhill Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 P.S. - Thanks for everyone's input, esp. Carhill - any more specific suggestions on what I should/could say without screwing this up? I think the other guys here are a lot smarter about dating. I've been married too long Oh, yes, you can talk about this without sounding like an idiot. Firstly, you need an alone moment. It's as simple as "can you walk me to my car?", then, before saying goodnight, swallow your pride and all those things which you think make you cool and tell her how you feel about her and what you want. Take her hands, look into her eyes; trust that she wants to please you. I know, novel concept Remember, don't look for the right moment; make it. And, like amaysngrace mentioned, she may just wish to test how you handle the "family" situation. Ask her about that, using open-ended questions. Her answers should provide some insight as to where things are going. While I wouldn't dwell on it, I think, by bringing up the subject and discussing it, you're helping to set the communications tone and style should the relationship continue. IMO, this is a good thing. Good luck!
witabix Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Good replies from carhill and LB. Its the package man, you can't cherry pick in this situation.
Green Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Does she want you to be a father to her teenage daughter? You probably just have to show her your not a creep and you'll be nice to her daughter, I doubt she expects you to get to involved. Look you made some bad moves, I can't believe you said you wouldn't mind waiting till mariage for sex. I can't believe you havn't atleast tested the waters and tried to have sex. I say go ahead and kiss her when her daughters around, what are you going to do if this thing progress's and you move in togher??? I say go have sex with her at her place, then you'll feel alot better.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 From your posts it sounds like your really not overly interested in dating a single mom but more that your settling out of a lack of better choices for you is that right? No wonder your not happy in the situation then by settling your not doing yourself or her any favors. Your a single young guy and you want to do what unattached single young people do on dates thats normal. Shes not in the same situation as you like others said its a package deal when they come with kids already. And as long as she thinks your ok with dating a mom shes going to be just that a mom I don't know allot of women who are willing to put their kids 2ed to a man. Look be honest with yourself and her and tell her your just not really into dating a partner with a child after all. Its not being shallow or a jerk if you get out now before things go to far and shes in to deep emotionally with you.
Green Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 From your posts it sounds like your really not overly interested in dating a single mom but more that your settling out of a lack of better choices for you is that right? No wonder your not happy in the situation then by settling your not doing yourself or her any favors. Your a single young guy and you want to do what unattached single young people do on dates thats normal. Shes not in the same situation as you like others said its a package deal when they come with kids already. And as long as she thinks your ok with dating a mom shes going to be just that a mom I don't know allot of women who are willing to put their kids 2ed to a man. Look be honest with yourself and her and tell her your just not really into dating a partner with a child after all. Its not being shallow or a jerk if you get out now before things go to far and shes in to deep emotionally with you. He sounds interested in dating her to me.
Author NuTuDating Posted March 10, 2008 Author Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Thanks for everyone's input... just to clarify a few things: 1) I meant it when I said I would wait until I was remarried. As someone pointed out, this might have been a mistake to tell her that. Maybe not. But I firmly believe you can make out without taking your clothes off. I'm not in a hurry to sleep with her or get her naked. I would like to kiss her quite a bit more though, and I won't do this in front of the daughter. Just me. I try to behave myself around kids and I'm not comfortable kissing her in front of the daughter at this point. 2) I do feel like she is or was testing me to see how I would react around her daughter, and how her daughter would react around me. So far, so good. Her daughter is very smart and seems to be pretty happy and content. Like I said, we did have a good time bowling and her daughter and I got along just fine, laughed and cut up, etc. She mentioned that her last boyfriend was not happy with her having a daughter and tried to get her to send the daughter to live with the father. I don't feel that way at all, and I think that is absolutely horrible. So maybe she is just testing me. 3) I don't mind dating single mothers, it's just that the last two I've dated have wanted to get married seemingly just to have someone to pay the bills. This became red-flag-evident during the course of both of the relationships, therefore I am not seeing either of them anymore. One moved in with another guy about a month after we quit dating. The other girl lived with her mother and two boys. She also just wanted someone to provide for her. That said, I'm not opposed to dating single mothers, it's just that it can be difficult to truly know what they're after sometimes, based on MY experience. However, I'm not worried about this with this girl because she owns her own home and her cars are paid off and the biological father provides the support he is supposed to provide. I get the package deal concept. I also understand that children are a first priority for a single parent. My fear is that with the last two dates including the child, that I may be TOO far below the daughter on the priority list. And of course, being single with no children of my own, it's easy for me to put both of them high on my list, and I don't mind doing so. I really am interested in her. I really do not feel whatsoever like I would be settling for this girl in any department. I can honestly see myself with her and her daughter. I just do not want to continue to have all dates include the three of us. So far, two dates (or meetings) in a row, this has been the case. I definitely would not mind doing half and half? Taking them both to basketball games (the daughter likes basketball) or to movies, or out to eat is perfectly fine with me, but not for every single date after just dating for a month. I can tell she's a good mother. I'd like to know if she will be a good girlfriend, even if I accept the #2 place on her priority list. Long run? The girl is 13 (almost 14) and will not be home forever (and please don't think I mean this in a bad way, the daughter is smart and I assume she will go to college). I know how to behave myself around her, so I don't go overboard on the affection in front of the daughter. It's just hard having a "girlfriend" (we've stopped having dates with other people after the first few we had together) and having to go several weeks without giving her a big kiss on the lips! It's kind of driving me nuts. We haven't really moved into doing things on weeknights yet, so we're basically still dating weekends only. Again, I'm not sure that this will be an issue yet - I need to talk to her and see what she'd like to do this weekend. I may not need to even say anything if I "passed her test" - assuming that's what this was about - and we go back to having a date or two alone. She called yesterday and said that her daughter likes me and had a great time bowling, so that was nice. I didn't feel like bringing up the issue yesterday on the phone, because I'm still not wanting to sound like an idiot and run her off, and maybe that's not an appropriate phone conversation. carhill (and others?) - you're saying I wouldn't sound like an ass if I ask her if she was judging how I got along with her daughter? Alright - I was long winded again! Thanks again for the replies. Edited March 10, 2008 by NuTuDating
KidEternity Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said... I would think it is a good thing that she brings her daughter on dates as she obviously wants her daughter to get to know you, and therefore she wants to get to know you... ...but anyway, if you are settling on her, don't! It will only cause yourself and her a bunch of heartache that isn't really worth it. Single Moms are package deals (that sounds horrible!) but you know they just can't go out and party and have fun with you, they are responsible and hopefully mature and want a steady, good relationship...do you want that? I suppose you could bring it up with her that you want to see her alone, but you don't want to make it seem like you want to push her daughter out of the equation. Anyway I reckon just have a talk with her about going out for dinner or something....
Balthazar Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Gotta agree with Legend, NU. It is so much better to find a woman minus the kids. After all, you are starting life off with a clean slate, as all people should. She has already made some crucial decisions in her life and must now deal with the pros and the cons of her decisions. I don't understand why you should though. I could comprehend if you had kids too, but as a single guy,unmarried with no kids you have options that she does not. Furthermore,(and I say this respectfully as one dude to another) you are 31, why would you be contemplating a relationship with a 33 year old mom? Where are all the 20 something, single ladies? Still, you do say you are in a difficult area, and I haven't seen the lady; She may be one hot 33-year old mom;). Good luck whatever you decide, Edited March 10, 2008 by Balthazar
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