some perspective .. feeling really bad

[cookiecat]

hello,

 

i posted earlier about not knowing what my ex is thinking, but perhaps i should tell the story first This is the abridged version...

 

i feel silly even writing this, because i know what i should do, right (move on, not focus on him, etc). But I've just been feeling really emotional again and could use some support and advice nonetheless.

 

My boyfriend and i dated for four years. As with most people on this board, i was (am) totally in love with him, even though he was most most difficult at times. Well, things started to super go downhill a couple years ago. I wanted to move to new york for graduate school (we were living in san francisco). that was in 2005. When we got here, it started to go downhill, quickly. He became super depressed and withdrawn. I was out making friends and getting ready for school, and he completely withdrew. We fought constantly. I ended up breaking up with him for a month because I didn't know what to do with him. I just couldn't get through. I eventually went back though, because I missed him so much.

 

Well, in that month, he had bought a ticket back to San Francisco, where we had come from. We agreed to stay together though. He told me how much he loved me and needed me, but he wasn't making it in new york. It makes sense I guess. He really needs to be in a 'comfort zone' to function normally. So for the next year and a half, we were long-distance. To be honest, it wasn't that bad. We saw each other like every other month, and he would always stay for a month at least. But the fighting never ended... it was like we were stuck in the rut and kept bringing things up from the past and it just never ever ended. Naturally, we grew apart more and more, and had sex less and less, till it got to a pretty sad place. And eventually, he started to feel really insecure about me meeting other guys, which surprised me a lot. I'm *so* not the kind of girl to flirt around, and he knew i loved him madly.. i thought.. He sent me this email just two months before breaking up with me that he was insecure about me leaving him, and that when things got bad between us, he'd just want to 'take it out on me and walk away'. Then say that he was so sorry, and he hopes i can forgive him.

 

Anyways, this last summer, my worst fear happened. He met some girl, and within a week of meeting her, dumped me. Well, the breakup was kind of mutual at first, because we were fighting so much, I agreed that we needed a *break*, just to at least see wtf was going on with us, and was it worth saving. Also, I felt that we needed to be apart just to get distance from all the fighting and to break the cycle. Once I found out about the girl though, it became more of a 'he dumped me' situation.

 

For the next two months, he was incredibly nasty to me. He HATED to see me cry and tell him that I still loved him and wanted to take a 'break', not 'break up'. Eventually, we just couldn't talk to each other anymore. I took a trip to germany, and he, out of the blue, said he was going to Japan to 'find what makes him happy'. He just bought a ticket on the spot and took off. He and this girl didn't last more than a week, btw (they kissed once, i guess).

 

Well two months after that, and four months after the break up, he sends me some money for this helmet he owed me for. I write back saying, hey how are you.. miss talking to you. And from there we emailed a little, till he called me to talk. We talked for almost two hours, and it was great. I told him I still cared about him, and he kind of back-pedaled, saying that of course he cared about me, but that we have to be rational, not emotional, and how it had become unhealthy. To which i said, okay fine, i get it. To which he said 'well i never said i didn't want to talk about it'. Anyways, he then said 'that was another long discussion', but that it was late and that we should go (it was 5am by then, my time).

 

So for the last week, we've been emailing and chatting over aim, just about light stuff. I started to notice that he was becoming more aloof though, and I started to feel awkward. So now i'm pulling back again. I started to feel REALLY hurt again, and I dont want to go down that road again quite yet (or ever, of course).

 

Anyways, ! I still love him so much, but explained to him during our phone conversation that it wasn't like i wanted to just get back together. I'm not so much wanting us to just 'be together again' right now, as i am wanting us to have a serious conversation about what happened between us, and if he saw any way that we could work it out. He'd have to be willing to make some compromises too, and he'd have to truly want to be with me again. He's just so hard to read. He always has been that way, to me and everyone else who knows him. He's also a master at hiding his feelings, although, if he really wanted to be with me, I'm sure he'd make it clear. He used to always tell me though 's, i'll never be an open person' (referring to the fact that it is so hard for him to express himself).

 

I'm just so confused. I know the best thing is to go back to NC. Just, is there any hope in this kind of situation? I guess only time can tell, and I should just move on. I just thought maybe someone out there would have something to say about it. I'm feeling really really bad. And guilty... like I could have done something better (well of course I could have been better in many ways).. anyways..

 

Thanks guys

[cookiecat]

hey guys, anyone have any insight or thoughts about my post? am i leaving something out that's making it hard to reply? it seems i'm not very good at posting things that get responses here, heh.

 

i could really use some advice on how to proceed. the situation is starting to really get me down...

[cookiecat]

the other thing too is that he never told me he didn't love me anymore. he said his 'heart wasn't entirely there'. i asked him if there was anything other than the fighting that made him want to break up with me, and he said 'no'. he did start pursuing that girl right after we broke up, but he had only known her for a week (she started renting his garage), so i know she wasn't a substantial reason for why he broke up with me. perhaps an easy way out, yes, but not a real reason.

 

i asked him what he needed in someone, and he said 'i need someone less emotional. you're too emotional.'

 

basically, when i get hurt, i do get really really hurt. in other words, when we'd have a bad fight, he'd go and hide out for days, and i'd constantly try to get a hold of him to see what was going on. he'd always tell me that if i just chilled out and didn't try to reach him during those times, that he'd be able to come back around sooner to smooth things over.

 

that's why when we broke up, i totally left him alone. it was SO HARD. then he came around in two weeks to talk to me (after he kissed that girl and it went south, go figure). but of course it was too hard for me then to *not* be emotional in front of him, and it just didn't work out for us to be seeing each other. which is when things got nasty when i'd break down and tell him i still loved him, and could we work it out.

 

anyways, i have always been aware of the fact that i get really emotional when i get hurt. i cry and ask and ask and ask. i know it might sound horrible, but i've improved *alot* over my lifetime, in terms of learning how to control my emotions. and i'm trying to continue that improvement, obviously.

 

the biggest incompatibility with us is that he can be extremely closed off and sort of 'too' in control of his emotions (i.e., emotionless!), while i am very open and can be too emotional.

 

i know you can't change a person, but the fact that i get so emotional is something that i've been constantly striving to work on anyway... i am always trying to be calmer and less clingy when things start to get bad.

 

i guess my question is, is there anyone out there who was able to really improve themselves in a way that made their broken up relationship work again? we've been apart for four months now, and when we talked on the phone and the break up was brought up, he said that we are very different in the ways we handle problems, and one of us would have to change in order to make it work.

 

i know it sounds like he has made up his mind. just, can a person really shut out their feelings for someone they were with, so quickly after four years?

 

guess i'm looking for hope

[Newtotheblogthing]

I know exactly how you feel and have similiar things that have happened in my situation. I am dealing with the wanting to hang out, see what happens kind of thing but he is not on the same page right now.

 

I just see that as much as we would like the opportunity he might not be willing to give it right now. I am in the position where I am getting pretty close to moving on. If they aren't there yet we can do nothing to make them want to be.. even if some part of them does want it, they aren't acting on it and that puts us in a bind. Do we wait for them to decide they do want to be with us?

 

My advice which I am trying to apply to myself as well is to just lay off. I can't do ANYTHING to make him change his mind and more I try with contact and pushing the more my ex feels pressured. Everyone keeps telling me to leave it alone and let it happen the way it's supposed to and that of course goes against my nature of trying to make things happen.

 

Everyone says that have to WANT to be with us.. I often think my ex doesn't know what he wants but who am I to try to figure it out for him.

 

Ok, so with that said, I would try your best to let it go.. maybe it will happen down the road. I am still probably going to be in LC with mine.. but I am making a concerted effort to view it as it's just not happening.

 

P.S I know the emotionless guy thing, I also understand the rebound girl, my ex did it too. Oh and we were together for 3 years.

[cookiecat]

thanks for your reply...

 

yeah my ex also says the same thing to me that yours does. 'i'm in a single state of mind right now', i.e. he doesn't want to be in a relationship. well it's that he doesn't want to be in one with *me*, is how i'm taking it.

 

but yes, he won't just TELL me it's over and to move on. he said that he couldn't just tell me and that it was a whole other conversation. he says to just see what happens, and not put any expectations on anything.

 

wtf.. it's torture for me.

 

anyways, yeah, i'm just going to laaaay low now. i was actually supposed to go to sf tomorrow for the weekend, but decided against it when i realised i wasn't ready to see him with a clear mind. i just know i'd be emotional. so forget that.

 

i told him so, and he said 'ah'. (over aim). then he started talking about a track he recorded last night and we chit-chatted about music.

 

it was both awesome and frustrating on one hand, it's really positive that we are talking again. only my mind set is, okay, we can slowly get in touch with each other again and maybe if we can get along and there isn't any drama, and i don't bring up 'us' or get emotional, maybe he'll come around.

 

but yeah i know where this usually goes.. nowhere

 

AUGH. i hate this.

[cookiecat]

oh, let me clarify.

 

i didn't tell him the real reason why i canceled. i just said some school stuff came up.

 

 

i don't want him knowing anything too emotional about me right now. i just don't feel safe enough yet. i'm trying to be strong..

[Surfer Girl]

I understand what you are going thru Cookie... My ex also does not know how to express his emotions... Instead of telling him how much I love him want him and him not being able to handle the pressure.... I have come to realize that if he wants me he needs to respect me... I now use the "I Feel" some people can not open up and runaway.... Last night I told him I am not ready and today... I am feeling different and asked him if he wanted to surf tomorro.... I walked to his car... Gave him a hug.... And he said I will e-mail you tonight.... This is a rollercoaster ride... But I also realize I need to not put so much pressure on one that can't handle it.... Baby steps....

[Newtotheblogthing]

when they are emotionally unavailable like this I think we just have to back off.. Single mode or not, I can only try to do something for myself. And sometimes that's tough!! But at a certain point I don't want to keep being a yo-yo. My ex and I were sleeping together while he had this rebound and I thought once he broke up with her he would realize he wanted to be with me but it has yet to happen. And frankly with the way he has been acting it's not like I would be winning any great prize. So.. I just go about my business and hope that maybe it will change but I am not holding my breathe.. but that's just my particular situation.. I will answer if he calls or texts but I am not going to be super available.

 

hang in there!

 

P.S and I do feel bad about what I did while he was with this other female... Not something I thought I would do.

[Princess112]

Men seem to love to leave that open-endedness in the relationship. But cookie you really should stop trying to read between the lines and making things out of nothing. Look at the big picture:

 

1. You're in different states

2. He shows no effort in trying to mend the relationship

3. He has looked for other girls.

 

I think having a rebound girl is bullsh*t, and us trying to make excuses for them is bullsh*t too. Why do we make excuses for them? The last 4 years spent together meant absolutely nothing and was forgotten about within a week. A week! For 4 years? My god, not even a month. If a person loves the other, no matter how bad the relationship seems, they will try to work it out. The fact that he doesn't tell you he doesn't love you though just means that he's leaving you out there in case his new relationships don't work out. Don't let yourself become back-up plan.

 

I know it's hard because you love him, you've attached yourself to him after being together for so long, but he's not helping you. He is only making you feel worse about yourself. It isn't fair. Cookie you need to avoid any communication other than chat. Don't do abrupt NC because then he'll know what you're trying to do and that just gives him an ego boost. Instead, chat with him. Online, you can easily hide what you're really feeling. And don't talk about your relationship. If you absolutely need to talk to him, talk about how the day went, upcoming projects, light-hearted things. And then talk about friends. Talk about meeting some new people and how you're going out with them tonight. (Even if you haven't met anyone, just log off for a couple of hours, read a book, study, watch a movie, do something that'll keep you off the computer). And if you need to continue talking to him, log on at like 3 or 4 am and talk about how amazing your time was. Don't put too much emphasis on it because then he might know you're lying about it, just talk about it lightheartedly. And don't mention if there were men. It doesn't come from YOUR mouth. If he asks, then mention a few girls and 2 guys. Nothing important.

 

Soon enough you'll be making up a lot of encounters and pretending to feel so great about them, that you'll actually FEEL great about yourself. And if you can make these encounters realistic, then go for it. Try to get your mind off this guy. Go to school activities, art galleries, night clubs, museums, anything. Walk in the park. He'll start to notice your distancing and will either A. realize he loves you and can't afford to lose you, in which case you DO NOT come running after him, you say you'll think about it, even though you're dying inside. And give it 2 weeks thought. If you feel you still care for him, then say you want to TRY things, but keep your relationship light. Bringing up the past brings forth a lot of bad feelings, and if you cannot start your relationship anew, then don't start it. If you can say no by the time he comes around, then GREAT!.

or B. he will show that he truly doesn't care and you will be able to move on for good.

 

Don't let yourself become a back-up plan. You can't sit around and wait for him. Go out. Have fun. And let him know that if he doesn't change, that you're GONE.

 

Be strong cookie.

[cookiecat]

hey guys,

 

thanks so much for the support. it really helps!! this is a long post, but read on to the last half for a bit of wisdom that i learned (and is espoused emphatically all over this website).

 

so yeah, we're in dif states.. hah that's a problem. when we were together, we flew back n forth all the time to stay with each other for a month or more, so that was okay. also, i'm only here for school, which is over in april. i could easily go back to san francisco then (which is where all my dear friends and sister are. hell, my life is still mostly in sf). so it's not like there isn't any 'end date' to us being in seperate states (although, obviously, if we stay apart, i would do well to stay in my state for a bit longer )

 

HOWEVER

 

yeah, everything you're saying is true. i mean he's not making an effort. oh and him meeting other girls is kind of funny. i mean i'm sure he's trying (even though he volunteered that he wasn't out trying to meet girls... he's just trying to focus on his music and art. but yeah yeah, i'm not naive.) it's funny though cuz he is SO AWKWARD when it comes to meeting girls. let me put it this way: he's 28 and i'm only the second girl he's ever kissed. he just doesn't really have a way with girls. and he's by no means ugly or dumb or uninteresting. he's very much the opposite in all those ways. he's just kinda very, uh, quirky, you might say.

 

anyways anyways anyways, yes yes, but he's still not making an effort to be with me. sigh

 

i (think i) understand why though, and that's what's so frustrating for me. we were never able to stop the fighting while we were together... he probably feels like he's just given up, which is so sad to me that there is no way that we could resolve the fighting. i know i can't do anything about how he feels, and you know what, i have been doing my own things. i even dated a guy in germany last august who is, uh, flying out here to see me next week (oh this could be a whole other thread).... he KNOWS i'm messed up over my ex though so, it's not like i've been keeping him in the dark. and my ex does not know this guy is coming out to see me. he knows i dated him (i never really told him, but he guessed) and he totally asked about him when we talked last. i just said, oh yeah, this dude is in love with me i guess, but i'm not so into it. which is true (well i don't think he's really in love with me. i think he's being dramatic. but i feel bad about it... ugh).

 

i've only fallen back in the rut last week, when my ex called me. so i'm trying to get back up to the surface now by posting to the forums and of course, crying in my bed eight hours a day

 

anyways, one thing i wanted to say is, the reason why i also am clinging to hope, i guess, is because i keep flashing back to what i did to my ex before this one. and yeah, maybe this is karmic payback (what a b****)...

 

the guy before my current ex was the love of my life.. let's call him paul. we date for three years, and man, it was my first real love and we were SO in love. however, we evetually fell into the same rut. basically, non-stop fighting. it was miserable. after we graduated college, i was living with him at his parents' house, while we job hunted.

 

well, there was this old ex of mine who knew i was having probs with paul, and basically put the charm back on, big time. i eventually gave in! WHAT i was thinking, i don't know. i was young and stupid.. that's what i tell myself anyway i was 21 when i did this. so i ditched my boyfriend.. left him crying in the driveway... and went with this other guy for six months. just like that. after three years. thinking back i can't BELIEVE i did that to someone. it was so stupid. i was obviously just running away from my current problems.

 

wellllll.. so i went back to the other guy for six months. paul begged and pleaded with me to come back, and i was like, nope, not happenin... i even told him 'you should date other people... of course i still care about you, but you should date others'. OMFG... this is EXACTLY what i've heard from my current ex. i felt like i was in a nightmare when i heard the same things out of his mouth, that came out of mine to my ex when i was 21.

 

but what happened after six months??? well i ran into paul at a show... and started sorta talking to him again. then thinking about him. then next thing i knew, i was in the shower crying, wondering wtf i did... what a mistake i made. i still loved paul. madly. i then spent the next year desperately trying to get him back. it worked for a little while, but then ended in disastor when he was like, you know what, i'm over it... get lost. it took me years to recover from the loss. till i met my current ex. but even THEN it took me another year and a half to be COMPLETELY over paul. not that i would have gone back to him. but to, ya know, know that it wouldn't bother me one bit if i saw him kissing some other girl (and ironically, years later, paul and i are now friends again. he lives in nyc too now. i'm even buds with his very serious girlfriend).

 

okay, so yeah, there you go. it SUCKED and i learned my lesson the hard way. but i also keep thinking (which is bad news, i know).. well maybe the same thing will happen with my current ex and i? maybe he will realise, even though he's telling me to move on.

 

lesson to be learned though also: why did i want my ex back? cuz i saw he had moved on without me and FREAKED OUT... so moving on and showing you're strong to the ex really does work, haha. i'm proof. now if i can just follow my own wisdom (and of course, do it for me, not for him).