lino Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 Hi all, I'm new here. I just found this old topic and wanted to reply to it but couldn't so I started a new one. This is the one I mean http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t94689/ Reading about these 'bad boys' and 'nice guys' made me realise that I'm definitely guilty of being too much of a nice guy. The thing is that I look like an agressive bad boy and I have a muscular build with tattoos which gets me the hot girls, but in the end character-wise I'm just a nice guy which I think leads to all those girls dumping me. When I say 'nice guy' I mean someone who is too available and maybe even clingy. I'm not a total pussy that bends over backwards for a girl and does anything she wants but I do think I am guilty of being too nice and in the end thinking the 'nice guys finish last' sob story when I get dumped. I also don't go for only the hot girls with attitude but these seem to be the only girls attracted to me, which would be ok if I just wanted to screw around, but I'd love to have a long term relationship for once and I can't seem to get it going out with only these women. The nicer girls seem uninterested in me and I don't know what to do. Any advice?
Hugh_950 Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 Wear long sleeves Seriously, there is a book called "The Pussification of America" that tells about a generation of nice guys, raised by single moms who taught their sons to be gentlemen. Essentially they teach thier boys how mom wishes she had been treated, meaning well. But a generation of pussies are getting in to some kind of groundswell of guys who aren't going to be wussies anymore. You already know ... Doing all "right" things in dating just does not get the expected results. Being a little edgy, independant, and not overly concerned if she likes you, (bad boy) doesn't get the results that most girls say it would get from them. Instead it surprisingly gets desired results. Many girls say it doesn't work with them. But I think it will for most. The hot ones, the nice ones too. There's always an exception. But there is the general rule. Guys who say they don'y like the bad boy thing ??? I personally think their just patronizing the girls ... their wussies. If nice guy works for them, I say good for them, but it doesn't happen in my experience. But experiment for yourself - it takes a little practice. Doesn't work at first - but it does in time. Like an applied science. The girls that you do attract? What's wrong with that? Do you want June Cleaver? Well, I think she secretly wanted to get naughty too. You CAN get a long term thing with the hot ones that you're already doing well with. Sounds to me though like you're doing OK except a little on the clingy side. Just rough that up a little When you sense her cooling down (thinking you've been clingy) then STOP! Draw away youself! She'll notice, and you'll see it too. Best advice, in my opinion ... lose that thing about hunting for that one special girl. Date and have fun ... she'll pop up unexpextedly. But if she sees you HUNTING for her in a needy way ... she'll shy away.
Author lino Posted June 24, 2007 Author Posted June 24, 2007 Wear long sleeves Seriously, there is a book called "The Pussification of America" that tells about a generation of nice guys, raised by single moms who taught their sons to be gentlemen. Essentially they teach thier boys how mom wishes she had been treated, meaning well. But a generation of pussies are getting in to some kind of groundswell of guys who aren't going to be wussies anymore. You already know ... Doing all "right" things in dating just does not get the expected results. Being a little edgy, independant, and not overly concerned if she likes you, (bad boy) doesn't get the results that most girls say it would get from them. Instead it surprisingly gets desired results. Many girls say it doesn't work with them. But I think it will for most. The hot ones, the nice ones too. There's always an exception. But there is the general rule. Guys who say they don'y like the bad boy thing ??? I personally think their just patronizing the girls ... their wussies. If nice guy works for them, I say good for them, but it doesn't happen in my experience. But experiment for yourself - it takes a little practice. Doesn't work at first - but it does in time. Like an applied science. The girls that you do attract? What's wrong with that? Do you want June Cleaver? Well, I think she secretly wanted to get naughty too. You CAN get a long term thing with the hot ones that you're already doing well with. Sounds to me though like you're doing OK except a little on the clingy side. Just rough that up a little When you sense her cooling down (thinking you've been clingy) then STOP! Draw away youself! She'll notice, and you'll see it too. Best advice, in my opinion ... lose that thing about hunting for that one special girl. Date and have fun ... she'll pop up unexpextedly. But if she sees you HUNTING for her in a needy way ... she'll shy away. Appreciate the advice Hugh Well I'm not raised by a single mother, I'd consider my family to be fairly normal and yes I've learned the hard way that doing the 'right' things in dating gets you nowgere, especially with the girls that are attracted to me. I just can't seem to stop doing it though I wouldn't say I like prefer either the nice guy or bad boy thing but I just can't help being a nice guy and I really need to change this if I can. I've always followed the 'be yourself' thing and it's really gotten me nowhere. I'm 25 and I've never had a relationship more than 3 months long. I've never been loved or even respected by a woman the same as I did her and I've never even been given the chance to fall in love with one because they don't stick with me for long enough. I know it has alot to do with my low self esteem and low confidence but how do I help this? Like I said virtually all the women who I've been with are pretty hot girls with attitude who do like bad guys and I think they're initially attracted to me because I look like one but I'm really not, even though on some occasions I may act like one. In the past I've tried to put on the act but I can't keep it up for more than 2 weeks or so & the end up seeing through it and dump me There's nothing wrong with the girls I attract, infact it was great when I just wanted to screw around but I'm not looking for that now(though I won't turn down an opportunity) and I'd like to have a serious long term relationship for once with either a hot girl with attitude or a cute nice girl. I'm not that fussy about that and I don't give a **** about playing games like the 'chase' and acting too cool/uninterested, etc to keep them keen. I just want a good looking girl who is honest and nice to me, like I am with her and is as into me as I am her. But like I said I've learned the hard way that it doesn't work this way. Especially my last relationship(of 3 months) in which I felt closer to this girl than any other before. She was really hot but didn't have attitude(or maybe was good at acting like she didn't???) and I was really into her and I'm pretty sure she was really into me, then in the period of a week she dumped me and I know it was because I wasn't 'bad' enough. You're correct though I am abit on the clingy side and can come across being needy but like I said before I'm not a total doormat but I don't really know how to 'rough' it up as you say.
Touche Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Hugh, no joke on the "wear long sleeves." Ha! That was essentially my answer to him. I think guys with tattoes attract certain kinds of women..not the kind he's obviously looking for. No offense to anyone with tattoes...just my opnion. I think you need to change your image. If you look like a "bad boy" you're just going to keep attracting the wrong kind of girl for you. It's just like girls who dress slutty who complain they keep attracting guys who just want to sleep with them and don't want anything else. Same thing.
Lizzie60 Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 When I say 'nice guy' I mean someone who is too available and maybe even clingy I think your 'confusing' nice guy with being clingy... this is 2 very different qualitificative. you can be a nice guy without being clingy... Clingy = desperate in my book... so maybe they are seeing you as desperate. who knows? First of all, the 'hot girls' who are running after the 'bad boy' tattoos, big muscles guys, (no offense) are often women that are themselves very insecure.... and seem to only get those bad boys who abuse them... but when they find out that you're not what you're 'advertizing'...what they're looking for... they dump you. Don't worry about them... The nice girls looking for nice guys... are not IMO looking for the 'bad boy' look... So it's like you're a 'contradiction' in the way you present yourself and the way you really are... Sorry I am not sure if I make sense here... if my thoughts came across OK..
pink smartie Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 There's nothing wrong with the girls I attract, infact it was great when I just wanted to screw around but I'm not looking for that now(though I won't turn down an opportunity) and I'd like to have a serious long term relationship for once with either a hot girl with attitude or a cute nice girl. I'm not that fussy about that and I don't give a **** about playing games like the 'chase' and acting too cool/uninterested, etc to keep them keen. I just want a good looking girl who is honest and nice to me, like I am with her and is as into me as I am her. Hmm actually this gives me hope. I am also at a point where I am hoping for something meaningful. I won't turn down dating opportunities and I am learning to see the flings for what they are. Toughening up when it comes to dating is making dating more fun for me. And actually teaching me to be more independant. but I wonder if the term 'nice guy' isn't often code for 'needy guy'. I've dated nice guys. I've dated needy guys. My relationships were with the first group. The second ones I was out the door as fast as I could. As, I should say, I have dropped guys who played games. And when you think of it, men do the same thing with women no? You probably want a relationship with a nice girl, not someone clingy.
Hugh_950 Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Oh man ....you've got it but don't know it ... yet. OK - how about this. I have very little interest in going to the games with my buddies. I honestly would rather be with a gf. It's my honest preference. But I've noticed that girls appreciate that "only so much" and it does NOT really go very far like you'd think. So, once or twice a month, I take off! With my buddies. I've seen it piss her off, she pouts, and whatever. Nearly breaks my heart to do it ... I used to give in though and say "oh alright, I'd rather be with you anyway", which again, only wins just so much appreciation. But if I "get tough" and say, "I'm going to the game" and she pouts and when I get back, she'll bitch for a while, but then gets real clingy. It's a hell of a thing to have to do ... but I don't want to get hurt so I do. Anyway, THEN when I do things that show her how much I really dig her, THEN it makes her happy. BTW - I'm in my 50's ... In the past 10 years I've learned so many things. I really love my life now, more than ever, because I spent so much time feeling exactly as you described. Now all of a sudden things are working better. My point is ... you're way ahead of me when I was 25. If I knew what you know when I was 25 ??? You get my point. Here's another better and more practical thing I can suggest. Figure out a couple of things, that REALLY fascinates you. Things NOT related to dating. Like art, jazz, history, science, cooking, skiiing, surfing - whatever. Do them, get into them. Things that are for YOU - nothing to do with pleasing anyone else. Find a side to yourself that makes you feel cool. And here's the best thing of all that I could suggest ... At the same time, practice that old thing .... "I like myself!" Say it out loud, by youself, over and over each day for a while. Sounds like psyco babble, I know, but it works man. It takes time ... like an applied science ... but soon enough ... you'll believe youself! In time, you'll be thinking, "You know what? I'm cool! ... I'm damn f*cking cool!" And nobody will be able to tell you different. I didn't know how cool I am until 10 years ago. I wish I figured it out sooner, but I know it now. Now ... I am one cool dude! There's no sence in feigning humility! I've read what you write. And I personally think you probably ARE pretty freaking cool too ... but you don't really know it yet. When you finally learn this about yourself, then you'll meet a girl who will see it too ... and there's no way she's letting go of you! For now, girls only see it in you skin deep. They've got to see that it's manly and good - clear to the bone! But try not to abuse the power
Hugh_950 Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Hmm actually this gives me hope. I am also at a point where I am hoping for something meaningful. I won't turn down dating opportunities and I am learning to see the flings for what they are. Toughening up when it comes to dating is making dating more fun for me. And actually teaching me to be more independant. but I wonder if the term 'nice guy' isn't often code for 'needy guy'. I've dated nice guys. I've dated needy guys. My relationships were with the first group. The second ones I was out the door as fast as I could. As, I should say, I have dropped guys who played games. And when you think of it, men do the same thing with women no? You probably want a relationship with a nice girl, not someone clingy. I get good nuggets of truth from comments like this. And then sort of re-word them for myself. Nice Guy vs. Needy Guy - big difference. Right, most needy guys probably think they're just being nice. And there ARE nice guys who are not needy. And Pink said something about being independent ... So what about independant guy vs arrogance. I like it when women are independent. I think it's so cool when I meet a girl who frequently wants to do her thing without anyone's buy in. Read a book, build a piece of art ... whatever. I think some men need to learn to be independent. Really OK with things in life regardless of the love life, and not dependent on a GF's approval (or anyones approval) But not arrogant. Sort of ... be independent but not an a**hole.
Author lino Posted June 25, 2007 Author Posted June 25, 2007 Thanks for the input everyone, very appreciated I'll try to respond to each of you. Sorry if this becomes quite long. Hugh, no joke on the "wear long sleeves." Ha! That was essentially my answer to him. I think guys with tattoes attract certain kinds of women..not the kind he's obviously looking for. No offense to anyone with tattoes...just my opnion. I think you need to change your image. If you look like a "bad boy" you're just going to keep attracting the wrong kind of girl for you. It's just like girls who dress slutty who complain they keep attracting guys who just want to sleep with them and don't want anything else. Same thing. I understand what you're saying completely. However I must say I'm not completely covered in tats or look like a criminal. I have 2 tats, 1 on my right shoulder of a tribal pattern and 1 of an eagle on the upper left side of my back. Both are about the size of one of my hands. Even without the tats visible I still seem to only attract the same women. I admit I do possibly look a little agressive in the face but nothing I can do about this. I dress pretty smart-casual most of the time so I doubt it's the clothes I wear either. It confuses me, even more so when I see 'bad' looking guys who are with women who I consider to be 'nice' When I say 'nice guy' I mean someone who is too available and maybe even clingy I think your 'confusing' nice guy with being clingy... this is 2 very different qualitificative. you can be a nice guy without being clingy... Clingy = desperate in my book... so maybe they are seeing you as desperate. who knows? First of all, the 'hot girls' who are running after the 'bad boy' tattoos, big muscles guys, (no offense) are often women that are themselves very insecure.... and seem to only get those bad boys who abuse them... but when they find out that you're not what you're 'advertizing'...what they're looking for... they dump you. Don't worry about them... The nice girls looking for nice guys... are not IMO looking for the 'bad boy' look... So it's like you're a 'contradiction' in the way you present yourself and the way you really are... Sorry I am not sure if I make sense here... if my thoughts came across OK.. Well I can agree with the 1st point you make. I think I am both a nice guy and clingy. I wouldn't consider myself desperate or that my actions give out that vibe but who knows? Everytime I've been dumped they never said it was for those reasons it was always the usual fake excuses 'I'm not ready for a serious relationship', 'You're a real catch but I don't feel I can love you', etc or sometimes no explanation at all! I understand the other stuff you said and I'm not offended. I'm not really 'advertising' a certain image, I'm just being myself. I like the tats I have and I enjoy doing weights & staying fit. I think with the hot girls it comes down to me being too soft but I wish the nice ones would take the chance to get to know me. Just like I would with a woman even if her looks didn't totally impress me at 1st. Hmm actually this gives me hope. I am also at a point where I am hoping for something meaningful. I won't turn down dating opportunities and I am learning to see the flings for what they are. Toughening up when it comes to dating is making dating more fun for me. And actually teaching me to be more independant. but I wonder if the term 'nice guy' isn't often code for 'needy guy'. I've dated nice guys. I've dated needy guys. My relationships were with the first group. The second ones I was out the door as fast as I could. As, I should say, I have dropped guys who played games. And when you think of it, men do the same thing with women no? You probably want a relationship with a nice girl, not someone clingy. I respect your view and I think it's where I'm going wrong. I'm just not very good at putting the advice I receive into practice. And I agree men do the same thing with women, not me however. I've never had a woman be clingy with me so I've no idea what it's like, but maybe I wouldn't mind it, I can't really say. I, like you, want something meaningful for once, whether it be with a 'nice' or 'bad' girl so long as she respects me like I do her. One thing I don't like is these stupid 'games' of wanting to chase/be chased, act too cool, play hard to get, etc. If I like a woman I'm upfront about it, likewise if I don't like her. I'm realising I probably need to become good at these games though. Oh man ....you've got it but don't know it ... yet. OK - how about this. I have very little interest in going to the games with my buddies. I honestly would rather be with a gf. It's my honest preference. But I've noticed that girls appreciate that "only so much" and it does NOT really go very far like you'd think. So, once or twice a month, I take off! With my buddies. I've seen it piss her off, she pouts, and whatever. Nearly breaks my heart to do it ... I used to give in though and say "oh alright, I'd rather be with you anyway", which again, only wins just so much appreciation. But if I "get tough" and say, "I'm going to the game" and she pouts and when I get back, she'll bitch for a while, but then gets real clingy. It's a hell of a thing to have to do ... but I don't want to get hurt so I do. Anyway, THEN when I do things that show her how much I really dig her, THEN it makes her happy. BTW - I'm in my 50's ... In the past 10 years I've learned so many things. I really love my life now, more than ever, because I spent so much time feeling exactly as you described. Now all of a sudden things are working better. My point is ... you're way ahead of me when I was 25. If I knew what you know when I was 25 ??? You get my point. Here's another better and more practical thing I can suggest. Figure out a couple of things, that REALLY fascinates you. Things NOT related to dating. Like art, jazz, history, science, cooking, skiiing, surfing - whatever. Do them, get into them. Things that are for YOU - nothing to do with pleasing anyone else. Find a side to yourself that makes you feel cool. And here's the best thing of all that I could suggest ... At the same time, practice that old thing .... "I like myself!" Say it out loud, by youself, over and over each day for a while. Sounds like psyco babble, I know, but it works man. It takes time ... like an applied science ... but soon enough ... you'll believe youself! In time, you'll be thinking, "You know what? I'm cool! ... I'm damn f*cking cool!" And nobody will be able to tell you different. I didn't know how cool I am until 10 years ago. I wish I figured it out sooner, but I know it now. Now ... I am one cool dude! There's no sence in feigning humility! I've read what you write. And I personally think you probably ARE pretty freaking cool too ... but you don't really know it yet. When you finally learn this about yourself, then you'll meet a girl who will see it too ... and there's no way she's letting go of you! For now, girls only see it in you skin deep. They've got to see that it's manly and good - clear to the bone! But try not to abuse the power I understand your point about getting tough and I need to try this more. I do have alot of hobbies to keep myself busy, I've never had a problem with that and I've never ceased/altered any of my interests for a girl. But still at the end of the day I'm alone and it gets me down sometimes because I'd like to have a long term companion for once like I see so many other people have. The rest I agree with too, which I think goes back to self esteem issues. I've gotta say I never thought of myself as 'uncool' but each time I get dumped I think more & more 'somethings gotta be wrong!' I'll give what you say a go though. Thanks I get good nuggets of truth from comments like this. And then sort of re-word them for myself. Nice Guy vs. Needy Guy - big difference. Right, most needy guys probably think they're just being nice. And there ARE nice guys who are not needy. And Pink said something about being independent ... So what about independant guy vs arrogance. I like it when women are independent. I think it's so cool when I meet a girl who frequently wants to do her thing without anyone's buy in. Read a book, build a piece of art ... whatever. I think some men need to learn to be independent. Really OK with things in life regardless of the love life, and not dependent on a GF's approval (or anyones approval) But not arrogant. Sort of ... be independent but not an a**hole. As I said before I think I'm probably both 'nice' and 'needy' and I need to change this. I've never had a problem being independent though nor ever come across as arrogant or an *******, in my view anyway.
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