This might be a long read.

[corey.the.star]

I am a 28 year old woman, and I've been involved for about 9 weeks with a 36 year old man who told me when we met that he is separated. Fair enough, I'm not the judgemental type. As we got to know one another, he told me just how miserable life with his wife had been, and I provided a caring and supportive ear, all the while trying to maintain an objective perspective.

 

Things progressd very quickly with this man. It was only a few weeks before we professed our love for one another, and things have been going really well. He has told me that he wants to be with me, but has a lot of complicated issues to go through as far as actually divorcing his wife.

 

For the record:

• They have 2 children - one of whom is not his biologically but he has been involved in her life for 3 of the 5 years she's been on the planet
  
• His wife is pregnant - by another man
  
• They still live in the same house, though he lives in an apartment upstairs with a separate entrance, and he maintains that they are not conjugal partners
  
• He advised me that after she got pregnant, she wanted to move the boyfriend (babydaddy) into the house, and while he was not happy about this, agreed that it would be all right provided the boyfriend paid some sort of room and board

For a while, he didn't want his wife to know that he was seeing someone else. When I told him that I felt like his 'dirty little secret', that changed, and when she found out that he was moving on with his life, she decided that she wanted to try to make things work with him. As far as I can tell, he did not outright tell her that he did not want that to happen.

 

Things for him in his domestic situation are now abusive. From what I understand, she is abusing him financially, emotionally and physically. She is also destructive to his belongings. She punches him, throws things at him, and has done damage to his car. He told me that during one argument she spit in his face. She has stolen his savings (about 2 months worth or salary) from his bank account. She gets money from the government (she is not working) and then demands more money from him for food and diapers, even though he is working about 75 hours a week and pays all the household bills (mortgage included!) He is very open about these things, but has made no plan for himself or for his children to get out of this situation.

 

I am perplexed by this situation. He is a smart man, and very responsible. He doesn't want to run out on his family, and has even considered claiming paternity over the unborn child that is not his (I can be sure it is not his because he has had a vasectomy). I have offered to be supportive as far as helping him to ensure that his children are cared for - going as far as offering not to take a part time job that I was offered so I would be more available for this. His response was to ask if we could discuss things later.

 

Recently, things have changed between us. I went away for a week, and had a lot of time to think about things. It seems now like he's not being honest with me. Short of giving him an ultimatum (because they seldom produce desired results), I told him that if even a small part of him wants to be with his wife, I can't see him any more, since I don't want to be party to infidelity. I also said that I think he and I have different priorities, and in order for me to preserve my own sense of wellness, perhaps we should stop seeing each other until he has his affairs well in order. I told him that I feel like I make things more difficult for him, since the precipitating factor in the fights that he and his wife have is usually his expressed desire to see me, but also that I feel like I make things easier for him, because no matter how hard things are for him at home, he can always come to me and I'm his safety net, or, as he calls me, his oasis in the desert.

 

His wife has been asking him to commit to 6 more months of trying to work things out with him. His fear is that they'll go through a 'honeymoon phase' and then things will return to the way they used to be. And he'll lose me in the process.

 

Before I went on vacation, he was spending as much time as he could with me: before and after work, provided he didn't feel obliged to be at home with his kids. I could respect that. Since I've come back, he has spent less time with me than I was accustomed to, which makes me think that maybe he has agreed to try to work things out with his wife and is now seeing me on the sly again.

 

When we are together, we have a lot of fun. I really enjoy and value our time. When I ask him questions, it seems like he is very open and very genuine in his replies. But he doesn't offer extraneous information. And I haven't been seeing him as much lately - most recently it's been a full two days since I've seen or heard from him - and he typically was calling me or seeing me every day.

 

I'm concerned about the change in his behaviour, but what is more on my mind is how long do I wait for him to get his act together? I know I can't live with this uncertainty for much longer, but can I ask him for a time frame? I understand that divorces don't happen overnight, and I don't want him to feel like I'm trying to railroad him into a relationship, but I would like to know where I stand, and where he stands, and where we stand as a relationship. And what I can expect.

 

Again, the relationship is still relatively new. But when we met and when we were getting to know each other, we clicked right away, and meshed really well. And we still do, with a few exceptions (as outlined above). I'm hoping that someone, anyone, can offer me some words of wisdom. I feel like I've gotten myself into a really complicated situation, and granted it's his situation and not mine, but I feel like if we worked together we could progress. How do I get him to work with me without him feeling like I'm pushing?

[Seen_It_All]

I can tell you're extremely intelligent - simply by your sentence structure and grammar. But extremely intelligent women don't always make the smartest choices.

 

I honestly don't believe a WORD of your MM's story and that's what he is - married. You can't even imagine HOW MANY TIMES I've read stories just like yours, where the guy claims to be 'separated' but living under the same roof. I could actually gag at how many times I've heard that utter bullcr*ap.

 

She's pregnant - by SOMEONE ELSE? She's pregnant alright, and it ain't by someone else. But it's a great way to introduce the pregnancy into his story since it's probably something he can't hide from you forever. I'm kind of curious - WHY would a guy want to reconcile with someone whose carrying another man's child? Why would a man want to reconcile with someone who abuses him in every possible way - physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, etc. etc. etc.? It doesn't make sense.

 

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

 

I think he got carried away, however, with his outrageous story when he threw in the colorful bit about saying it was OK to let the baby's FATHER move in with them to get help on the rent. Does this guy do drugs? It sounds like a bad halucination after too much LSD.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that vasectomy story either, to be quite honest.

 

Look, you've been with this guy for only 9 weeks. That's just over 2 months. In the scheme of things, that's NOTHING.

 

Let's say this guy is TELLING the truth for the sake of argument. Do you HONESTLY want to buy into this constant DRAMA? Kids all over the place with different fathers (supposedly), an abusive and angry pregnant-by-someone-else woman that is constantly out for blood? A guy that is so freakin' spineless and so freakin' afraid of his own shadow that he's willing to accept his wife's supposed affair partner's kid and claim it as his OWN?

 

Does this guy write soap operas for a living? He'd make a fortune.

 

I feel like I've gotten myself into a really complicated situation, and granted it's his situation and not mine...

Oh no, that's where you're wrong. If you buy a ticket to THIS dungeon of horrors ride, you're going to go for the nastiest, ugliest ride of your LIFE - right along with him.

 

And when it's all said and done and you eventually find out the truth, that he was NEVER separating and most of the garbage he told you was out and out lies, you're going to be VERY angry that you allowed yourself to be used and conned. You're going to feel used, resentful, humiliated, angry as He*ll, and it's going to suck your soul right out of you.

 

The last thing I'd do is force MORE lies out of this guy by giving him a timeline. This guy doesn't even KNOW the truth anymore and you can't expect it from him.

 

Didn't you ever wonder WHY she's pregnant with ANOTHER man's child, yet HE'S afraid to tell her about YOU? That's not a humongous RED FLAG?

 

You know what I would do? I'd call his wife and tell her you're Romeo's new girlfriend. Get her side of the story. I'll bet the real story will blow your socks right off.

 

Come on, you're an intelligent girl. Cut this toxic burden from your life before he takes you down with him.

[whichwayisup]

Let him try to work on his marriage. Stay out of his life completely. He owes it to himself, to his children and to his wife to give his best. If it doesn't work out, then date him, but once he's legally separated and completely out of the house - Or even better, divorced.

 

If you stay in his life as things are now, you WILL be enabling him to cheat on his wife, share his focus that should be on JUST his wife.

 

Like it or not, all you know is what he's told you. He's lied to her, so don't think he wouldn't lie to you, or at best, sugar coat what HE thinks is wrong in their marriage. You're only hearing ONE side of things, his...And I highly doubt he's admitted to his faults in the marriage. It takes two to make a marriage not work and have problems, but one to ruin it completely by cheating.

 

I have offered to be supportive as far as helping him to ensure that his children are cared for - going as far as offering not to take a part time job that I was offered so I would be more available for this.

 

That isn't your place, to help with his children. That is unfair to his wife, mother of his kids. Put yourself in her shoes...I doubt very much you would like some other woman whom you've not met, around your children. It's his marriage, his children, his problem. If he needs help, he should ask his mom, dad or other members of his family, not you.

 

His wife has been asking him to commit to 6 more months of trying to work things out with him. His fear is that they'll go through a 'honeymoon phase' and then things will return to the way they used to be. And he'll lose me in the process

 

As it should be. You love him? Then let him go. He cannot work on his marriage with you still in the picture. And yes, if things go well and he's happy again with his wife, you WILL be out of the picture, rightfully so.

 

He isn't yours, he's hers. They're still married and my guess is, much more together than he's led you to believe.

 

You deserve a single man, no kids and with no big baggage. Not a MM who already has children, and alot of baggage...You stay with him, his ex will ALWAYS be a part of your life. Keep that in mind.

 

This man is full of drama!! Are you sure you want that craziness in your life???

 

Things for him in his domestic situation are now abusive. From what I understand, she is abusing him financially, emotionally and physically. She is also destructive to his belongings. She punches him, throws things at him, and has done damage to his car. He told me that during one argument she spit in his face. She has stolen his savings (about 2 months worth or salary) from his bank account. She gets money from the government (she is not working) and then demands more money from him for food and diapers, even though he is working about 75 hours a week and pays all the household bills (mortgage included!) He is very open about these things, but has made no plan for himself or for his children to get out of this situation.

 

If this is true, he'd be seeing an attorny NOW, finding out ways to protect his children and get a divorce. Remember, actions speak louder than words.... And again, you've only heard ONE side of this story. There are three sides. His, hers and the actual truth.

 

Don't you find it odd that he isn't talking to a lawyer about this stuff? Have you been to his house and seen how he lives? Something just isn't right about this situation........

 

And I haven't been seeing him as much lately - most recently it's been a full two days since I've seen or heard from him - and he typically was calling me or seeing me every day.

 

Again, actions speak louder than words.

[whichwayisup]

I just read Seen_It_All's post reply to you - Very eerie that her post reply is quite similar to mine. Please, think long and hard about what it is you want. Think long term, not short term.

 

2 months IS NOT a long time, yes you may care for him, or even think you 'love' him...At the same time, you can get over him just as quickly and move on, find a single guy who is worth the love you have to offer and get it returned to you 100%.

[woe_is_me]

This guy hasn't had a vasectomy he is only telling you that so that he can deny it's his baby if you fall pregnant.

 

My xmm told me the same thing early on, then did a backflip a couple of weeks later and admitted to lying about this!

Back then though i was so busy in other areas of my life (he was only a minor annoyance at that early stage) I barely remembered him telling me he'd had a vasectomy until he had to turn around and admit that it wasn't the truth.

He started to get scared and worried about what everyone would think should the unthinkable happen and started to harass me about contraceptives... (i knew how to look after myself tyvm)

 

Many months later after a couple of arguments i remember him saying to me "i've never lied to you - only that once about the snip (vasectomy)"

 

Why? I mean why do they say that? It's not like there isn't DNA to prove otherwise should the unthinkable happen.

 

Married Men are weirdos. Oh and he slept in a separate bedroom too. Don't buy a word of it.

[norajane]

I can tell you're extremely intelligent - simply by your sentence structure and grammar. But extremely intelligent women don't always make the smartest choices.

 

I honestly don't believe a WORD of your MM's story and that's what he is - married. You can't even imagine HOW MANY TIMES I've read stories just like yours, where the guy claims to be 'separated' but living under the same roof. I could actually gag at how many times I've heard that utter bullcr*ap.

 

She's pregnant - by SOMEONE ELSE? She's pregnant alright, and it ain't by someone else. But it's a great way to introduce the pregnancy into his story since it's probably something he can't hide from you forever. I'm kind of curious - WHY would a guy want to reconcile with someone whose carrying another man's child? Why would a man want to reconcile with someone who abuses him in every possible way - physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, etc. etc. etc.? It doesn't make sense.

 

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

 

I think he got carried away, however, with his outrageous story when he threw in the colorful bit about saying it was OK to let the baby's FATHER move in with them to get help on the rent. Does this guy do drugs? It sounds like a bad halucination after too much LSD.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that vasectomy story either, to be quite honest.

 

Look, you've been with this guy for only 9 weeks. That's just over 2 months. In the scheme of things, that's NOTHING.

 

Let's say this guy is TELLING the truth for the sake of argument. Do you HONESTLY want to buy into this constant DRAMA? Kids all over the place with different fathers (supposedly), an abusive and angry pregnant-by-someone-else woman that is constantly out for blood? A guy that is so freakin' spineless and so freakin' afraid of his own shadow that he's willing to accept his wife's supposed affair partner's kid and claim it as his OWN?

 

Does this guy write soap operas for a living? He'd make a fortune.

 

 

Oh no, that's where you're wrong. If you buy a ticket to THIS dungeon of horrors ride, you're going to go for the nastiest, ugliest ride of your LIFE - right along with him.

 

And when it's all said and done and you eventually find out the truth, that he was NEVER separating and most of the garbage he told you was out and out lies, you're going to be VERY angry that you allowed yourself to be used and conned. You're going to feel used, resentful, humiliated, angry as He*ll, and it's going to suck your soul right out of you.

 

The last thing I'd do is force MORE lies out of this guy by giving him a timeline. This guy doesn't even KNOW the truth anymore and you can't expect it from him.

 

Didn't you ever wonder WHY she's pregnant with ANOTHER man's child, yet HE'S afraid to tell her about YOU? That's not a humongous RED FLAG?

 

You know what I would do? I'd call his wife and tell her you're Romeo's new girlfriend. Get her side of the story. I'll bet the real story will blow your socks right off.

 

Come on, you're an intelligent girl. Cut this toxic burden from your life before he takes you down with him.

 

I totally agree.

 

However, for the sake of argument, even IF (big IF) any part of his story is true, he is clearly nowhere near ready for a real relationship with you. And he won't be for a long, long time. Even IF (big IF) there really is a divorce in the offing, he's seriously messed up and will be for a long, long time.

 

You don't have that kind of time to wait around for him...no one does.

[Trialbyfire]

I can be sure it is not his because he has had a vasectomy.

There's an easy way to prove that. Btw, don't go all the way with this, unless you're certain he's tested and clean and you're on birthcontrol of some form.

 

Push him to have unprotected sex, letting him believe that you aren't on any form of birthcontrol. If he keeps avoiding it, you know he's full of it...

[corey.the.star]

Well, thanks for the words of wisdom, everyone. I didn't get as much 'support' as I was hoping for, but a healthy dose of reality can never be a bad thing.

 

When he finally called me the other day, I confronted him. He agreed to meet me to talk, and we met that night. He had a very difficult time coming out and saying that he was going to try to work things out with his wife, but he finally did tell me that this is what has been going on for him. For the past 2 weeks or so he's been struggling with that decision.

 

I still believe that what he's told me is true. I like to believe that I have a good sense of reading people (I'm in the social services field - I pay attention!) and I think that he feels like he owes it to his wife to give it another shot, and owes it to himself to be sure that things are really over when he finally does leave.

 

We had a very one-sided conversation that night - that is, he told me what the score is, and I said just about whatever came into my head. I told him that his wife will not change, because people typically don't, and that abusive people follow patterned behaviour, so I fully believe that things will end between them. I told him I resepected his being honest with me, and while I disagree that he's making the right decision, that I respect the fact that he has to know for sure, for his own peace of mind.

 

I realized that I didn't paint a complete picture of him in my initial post, and so it makes sense that everyone thinks he's a lying cheating piece of garbage. That couldn't be further from the truth. I also realize that I've only heard one side of the story, but I believe that it's true - he's also told me about the way that he reacts to things.

 

I truly believe that he is a wonderful man. A little confused, yes. Unsure of where to go or what to do, yes. But I respect that he's finally made a decision about how to proceed with his life, and he's following through with it.

 

Am I happy about the decision? No. It means that he and I can't be together. I was very open about that with him before he announced his decision: I told him that if there was even a tiny doubt in the back of his mind that he was not ready to end his marriage, I couldn't interfere with that. We have communicated very openly and very honestly since the get-go.

 

For this reason, I do believe that, should things with his wife not work out, he and I stand a chance to be together again. He confessed that he does still love me, and that I couldn't have done anything differently to produce a different decision. He needs this for his own peace of mind. He stressed that point. I asked him if he was sure he wasn't doing it for his wife, and he said he was doing it for himself.

 

I am not willing to put my life on hold until he works out his crap, but I will entertain the idea of being with him at some time in the future, if the stars align. I felt that our meeting in the first place was fated, and I still believe that he is meant to be a big part of my life.

 

Does it sound like I'm in denial? I don't think I am. He's the most wonderful man I've been with in the past 2 years.

 

I will, however, set out some guidelines for him. I will not be with him in the future until he is a) not living with his wife (not even under the same roof!) b) legally separated at bare minimun and c) psychologically ready to move on with his life. I sincerely hope that he gets there.

 

As far as <i>thinking</i> that I'm in love with him, I realize that 2 months is a short time, but I am totally and completely fully in love with him. The day after he told me he's going to try to work things out with his wife, I cried all day (when I wasn't sleeping, since I didn't sleep the night before), and couldn't eat. When I smelled food, it made me want to vomit. I felt so empty and hurt and broken that I didn't know what to do with myself. And alone. And sad. And angry. And let me tell you, I am typically a well-balanced person, and logical to boot. I have never reacted to anything in this way before. I have never been so wrecked at the end of a relationship before. I believe that this is a direct result of the way I feel for him. We connected on so many levels, and we were so easy with one another, and everything felt right and good and fun and perfect, and that's a rarity. I trusted him immediately, and I still trust him.

 

So thanks again for the feedback. I just wanted to update everyone and let you all know that the things that you told me were things that I was already thinking about.

 

By the way, I saw this coming from a mile away. I don't know why I even posted here - a group of people on the internet can't get a full sense of what a relationship is about!! Not said to offend, merely factual.

 

I'm hoping that I don't sound like I'm young and naive. I'm really not. I'm a smart and strong woman - and I think he was counting on my strength when he made his decision. I hold out hope for the future.

 

If you'd like to give more feedback, that would be great. As for right now, I'm NOT the other woman, and I never will be.

[whichwayisup]

You're gonna get all sorts of advice, tough love sinks in more than hand holding, sugar coating advice. It makes you stop and think about the big picture, not just in the heat of the moment.

 

Good luck and I'm glad that you're strong enough NOT to allow yourself to be the OW in his life. If and when that time comes he leaves his wife for good, THEN start dating him, but until then, respect his choice to work on his marriage and stay away. Don't be friends at all, you must go into NC (no contact) with him so his focus is completely on his wife and not split between two women.

[woe_is_me]

but I am totally and completely fully in love with him. The day after he told me he's going to try to work things out with his wife, I cried all day (when I wasn't sleeping, since I didn't sleep the night before), and couldn't eat. When I smelled food, it made me want to vomit. I felt so empty and hurt and broken that I didn't know what to do with myself. And alone. And sad. And angry..

 

Ty for update Corey and i apologise if my reply wasn't very heartfelt. Apparently my replies come across as 'bitter'. 'Guarded' would be more more my description.

 

Anyway, these aren't feelings of love i've quoted above.. they're symptoms of an illness. They're a normal reaction to an abnormal situation but they should be enough to tell you that its a path not worth going down.

 

There is a lot of good advice in here and some very helpful posters.

 

You should forget this guy. He will only bring you heartache.

Affairs defy logic. So it won't matter how logical you are or were.

 

One of my good friends said to me "for a smart girl you're really surprising me with your reaction to this guy".

[corey.the.star]

We've agreed to be friends. And I feel better about that, knowing that I can be friends with him, than I did when I thought I would never see him again.

 

We've set up some pretty stringent parameters: we are not going to be physically intimate, we will not even consider a relationship until he has divorce papers, and if it gets too tough for either of us then we will go into NC. He doesn't feel like being friends with me will feel like cheating on his wife. He doesn't feel like being friends with me will distract him from his focus on fixing his marriage, but to be honest, it seems like he is waiting for the honeymoon phase to be over and for her to fall back into her old behaviours.

 

For my part, I will not close any doors for myself should opportunity knock. And if he and I end up together at the end then we'll live happily ever after. And if we find ourselves not together, then I'll still live happily ever after, having learned something from the experience.

[Ladyjane14]

...I like to believe that I have a good sense of reading people (I'm in the social services field - I pay attention!)

 

...I don't know why I even posted here...

 

You probably do have a "good sense of reading people". In the social services field, you know that sometimes there are non-verbal communications in play. You were likely picking up on something that you'd normally not have trouble interpreting save for your emotional investment.

 

Sure enough, once you put his feet to the fire... you uncovered more information.

 

Now that you've agreed to keep him as a friend though, you might want to give some thought as to if you REALLY want to continue feeding his ENs (emotional needs). When a person can get their needs met by two people, there isn't much impetus for them to rely on only one.

 

You've not really ended the affair. You've ended the physical affair and begun an emotional one. The same dynamics are still in play to a great extent. He's still got TWO women in his life seeing to his needs, building his self-esteem. This allows what we often call around here.. "cake eating". He's not required to 'make it or break it' with either of you. He's still hedging his bets.

 

On a side note... this guy has ENORMOUS baggage. If his story is to be believed, his coping skills pretty much suck and he seems to lack assertiveness. For you, having only one side of the story, is going to further compromise your ability to assess his character correctly. My best advice to you would be to try not to rely on your training, but rather to deal only in hard, cold FACTS. You don't want to be like the doctor who treats himself.

[whichwayisup]

He doesn't feel like being friends with me will distract him from his focus on fixing his marriage, but to be honest, it seems like he is waiting for the honeymoon phase to be over and for her to fall back into her old behaviours.

 

Sure, he says that now. AND - He's going into fixing his marriage, waiting for it to fail. How does he know without trying and going to marriage counselling that she'll slip into her old ways? His focus will STILL be on you, even if you two have stopped the physical part of your affair, the emotional side of it will STILL be going on. Don't fool yourselves. And that emotional stuff WILL get in the way of him focussing 100% on his wife.

 

LJ is right, so please, listen to her advice.

[corey.the.star]

I hear where you both are coming from, and I respect your insights.

 

History is the best predictor of the future. His wife is an abusive person. She wishes to exercise control over him. It stands to reason that she will continue to be an abusive person in the future.

 

Even before he met me, she was exercising these power mechanisms in their relationship. He has finally owned up to his own responsibility in this situation, in terms of allowing her to get away with things that he shouldn't have. Now he is holding her accountable as well. If she steps up and takes the challenge and runs with it, more power to her. She deserves to be happy. If not, he will no longer tolerate things that were tolerable before, and he leaves.

 

When it comes to me taking his focus off fixing things with his wife, I don't believe that will be the case. They are going to go to counseling, and he is being open to her changing. While he has identified that he has a threshold as far as what will keep him there and what will precipitate an actual divorce, he has advised that he is not going into this waiting for her to fall back into her old behaviours, since that is not fair to her either.

 

As far as having his emotional needs met by me, one thing that has been underscored is that my emotional needs are being met in this arrangement as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with two people carrying on a friendship in order to mutually benefit from spending time in each others' company. Trust me when I say that I am in self-preservation mode, and I will be hyper-attentive to my own mental balance throughout this process.

 

I definitely appreciate the experience that everyone has brought to this situation, and the insights that have been uncovered for me. I'm going to post a note that I wrote on my Facebook about this situation that explains exactly where I am at. I am definitely going into this with caution.

[corey.the.star]

All right. Thursday night [he] and I talked and we decided that we would still be friends for the time being. I had been thinking about things, and decided that I would be able to do that, and it actually felt better to decide to be friends than it did when I thought I would never see him again.

 

So we put on our honesty hats, and we had a frank decision, and at the end of it, I had regained some perspective and some optimism both.

 

Perspective as far as realizing that, if he and I will ever be together, it will be better for him to know at that time that his relationship with his wife can never be reconciled, and so it's good for him to go through this process. Because, realistically, do I want to be with a man who can only give me part of himself because he's uncertain if he's made a right decision? And perspective in that his wife will not likely change: her behaviour follows a pattern and she will fall into that pattern again. It's not about having her needs met, it's about being in control of the situation. And he's told me that he won't put up with living like that again. And he won't tolerate another punch, that's for sure. He told me that he's not going to be looking for his wife to screw up, because that's not fair to her, but at the same time, I really don't think that he believes much that she will change.

 

The optimism I am feeling has to do with letting go of my own desire to control the situation, and realizing that if we truly do have a bond that is as strong and deep as it feels like we do, we will be together. If it is meant to be, it will. And if not, well hey, at least I learned some valuable lessons. IMPORTANT and valuable lessons. And now that I've felt the way that I've felt, I won't be settling for anything less than that with someone else. Which is why I told him that, even though I'm not planning on putting my life on hold, that is, even though I'll take opportunities to date people if they arise, I don't know that I'll meet someone like him anytime soon, and so, if and when he is ready to be with me, provided I'm available, I'll seriously consider it.

 

We set out a couple of important parameters:

 

1. No sex. At all. No physical intimacy whatsoever, aside from hugging, which is limited to when we say goodbye thus far.

2. He told me it will take a lot of groveling for him to be with me again, but I told him that legal separation papers will suffice. Hard proof that he really is ready to move on.

3. If it gets too hard for us to be friends, he's open to no contact for a period of time, and then checking in with one another in a few months.

 

A few more things to note: he hasn't asked for his stuff back. The stuff that is at my house consists of some clothing, a few CDs, a jar of shells that he gave me, the souvenirs I brought him from Cuba (understandable that he wouldn't want them in his home), and his collection of favorite things that he brought over one day when his wife was filled with rage and in destructo-mode. That's a sign of optimism for me. Also, lastnight he dropped in for a beer, and when he was leaving he gave me this sort of I'm-sitting-he's-standing-side-hug-kiss-on-the-top-of-the-head, as though to say, "Hey. I still care about you." Further, the fact that he's willing to be friends without sex means that he actually really does like me as a person, and not solely as a sexual object, which is something I was moderately concerned about. Also, in a situation where he was forced to choose between two people, I gave him the option of making his own decision, while his wife pushed for the decision to be her. Granted, that's her right as his wife, but at the same time, I think it will be my quiet influence on him that will win in the end. After all, realistically, who would settle for milk chocolate once they've had a taste of dark?! (I LOVE DARK CHOCOLATE... mmm... chocolate...)

 

All of that said, I realize that I'm treading on thin ice, and that the way I feel about him is lingering just below the surface. The chances of relapsing into a sexual relationship are high, and so I'll have to be constantly on guard for that. I have to admit that I'll be very disappointed if that happens... on his part, if he tries to initiate sex with me, it will make me question once again his true feelings for me. And if I try to initiate physical intimacy, it will undermine the high moral ethic I am trying to maintain by not interfering with his marriage. The potential for the relationship to be destroyed is there.

 

At the end of it all, I invited him to make this decision, and I told him I would be ok with things no matter how they turned out. Now, I keep my feelings to myself for a while and hope that I come out a winner. And if not, I'll be a winner anyway, for having been through this and come out on top.

[whichwayisup]

You can't see this without being objective, obviously as you're in the situation...But, how the heck can really really focus on his wife and making his marriage work if you two think you can be "just" friends? Sure, on paper you two have planned out, no kissing, no fooling around etc., but you even admitted it will be hard, especially if the circumstances were right, something could happen again...

 

If you really want him to be happy, leave him alone. He owes it to his wife to try to fix the marriage without you IN his life. Your intentions of keeping a friendship with him is in hopes of his marriage failing. Ofcourse, you won't admit that, but inside that is what you are hoping for. You don't realize that you could influence him, his attitude towards his wife...

 

You cannot be friends with him, it won't work.

[corey.the.star]

Of course I'm hoping that he and I will end up together.

 

Of course I realize that I'll have some sort of influence on his life.

 

Of course it will be hard to maintain a no physical contact relationship with him.

 

Of course, all of these things are true.

 

At the end of the day, of course I hope that he comes to his senses and decides that life with me is the right thing to do. That wouldn't be any different if I were friends with him or had no contact with him. This way, though, I can fulfill my own need to continue learning about him and spending time with him while he goes through his own process.

 

Do I think that I can really influence him that much that he would not be able to work things out or not work things out with his wife? No, not really. If that were the case, he would already be with me. And I would not have the certainty that I have now that, if we end up together, it's because he really wants to be with me.

 

As I said before, I realize that I'm treading on thin ice. Believe me, I know how many different directions this whole situation could go. But I honestly feel like what I'm doing is the right thing for right now. And if it stops feeling right, then I'll change what I'm doing until it does feel right again.

 

If you knew me and knew me well, you would know that my primary drive in life is to help to ensure the best interests of others are being met, often at my own expense. If things with his wife work out, I will wish him the best. If another opportunity presents, I will pursue it. There are a million and one things that could happen, and I will deal with them as they come up.

 

I also realize that I can't be impartial in this situation. But I'd like to think that, should he solicit advice from me (which I don't think he will do), I will tell him what I think is the best for him, even if that means that my needs go unmet. More than anything, I would like to see him satisfied with his life. I'd like to think that, but if it happens and I find myself being selfish, I will catch myself before I speak and tell him to seek advice elsewhere as my thought process is clouded by what I want and what I need.

 

I have to stress again that I know this is a tenuous situation, and I am monitoring it carefully. I have been learning over the past year to monitor my mental well-being and what to do in order to keep myself balanced, and if I feel like things need to change, trust me when I say they will. And if that means I never see him again, so be it.

 

He hurt me once. He won't be given a chance to hurt me again... that is, I won't open myself up to him until I am certain that he is opening himself up to me in the same way.

 

I really feel like I'm just trying to defend my position here. That wasn't really my intent when I initially posted. In fact, I posted here to get some insight from people who maybe had been through something similar, or knew someone who had, or were aware of how situations like this usually play out. In fact, I'm in psychotherapy right now. I see a psychologist twice a month for talk therapy because I identified that I have been having difficulty coping with different areas of my life (full-time student, full-time job, family issues, pervasive feelings of loneliness, financial strain), and she has been a fantastic help. She directs me to examine my thoughts and actions, which is something I'm learning to do on my own as well, and so... to all of the posters here who have offered me advice, if you're concerned about my mental well-being, or my ability to successfully make it through this situation, or whether I'm being naive or whatever... please don't be. I'm taking steps in my life to be ok with who I am and where I am at any given moment in time, if that makes sense, and I'm self-reflective enough to know how to identify when I've made mistakes, and to take measures to correct them.

 

Speaking of which, getting involved with him in the first place was a huge mistake for both of us. But since the past cannot be undone, now we deal with the situation which has been created.

 

As far as the posters who are concerned that my involvement with him doesn't make his domestic situation fair, that is, because he and I are friends he can't possibly be fair in his dealing with his wife... well, I can't take responsibility for that. That is his situation and his situation alone, and all I can do is what I've already done: pull back physically, be friends with him (as long as we can be friends), and let him make his own decisions. I am not responsible for how his wife acts, nor am I responsible for how he reacts. And vice versa (how he acts, how his wife reacts). And so on, and so forth. If I tried to take responsibility for that situation, I do believe I would go a little bit crazy. Of course I have my own design on the situation, but being friends with him doesn't mean that I will be railroading him into having a relationship with me, which is kind of what I felt like I was doing before. I do believe that he will respect me more for allowing him to make his own decision, and if he doesn't, that is, if he needs to have someone make his decisions for him, then he isn't the right person for me.

 

I suppose it will be sort of a waiting game for the pair of us.

 

Does that set anyone's mind at ease? Again, going back to my initial post... I'm not sure I know exactly why I posted it, except that the thoughts were there swirling around my head and it always helps to get them out and written down somewhere.

 

That which does not kill us makes us stronger, and que sera sera. I know that I might get hurt again. But if we live life as though it will never hurt is, how do we grow? Without being hurt, how can we ever recognize when we're not being hurt? Without struggle, how can we recognize success?

[norajane]

I really feel like I'm just trying to defend my position here. That wasn't really my intent when I initially posted. In fact, I posted here to get some insight from people who maybe had been through something similar, or knew someone who had, or were aware of how situations like this usually play out.

You are getting their insights - and they're telling you that this isn't a healthy situation FOR YOU. That's why it seems like you're defending yourself - we've been there done that, and are telling you it doesn't work to stick around waiting for a guy to deal with his issues.

 

You wish for there to be a way so you are trying to rationalize what you want - to have him in your life one way or another - and how you might be able to have that. We don't have any tips to give you because we've tried it all and nothing works - nothing that doesn't leave you hurt, and realizing that you've wasted a lot of time and energy on something doomed from the start because of the circumstances.

 

Friends is a tough road to walk because you want more than that, really. You think you'll be fine and you'll be open to other relationships and you won't let him hurt you, but those who have been through something similar, know 1) you won't be fine because there will always be a part of you that feels bad after you talk with him or see him as friends because deep down you want more, 2) when your heart is with a guy, you're unlikely to notice or fall for anyone else, and 3) you'll be hurt each week, month that you realize he's still with his wife and not getting any closer to working anything out with either her or you.

 

If you have a tendency to ensure the best interests of others, then you are exactly the kind of person who will get hurt in these kinds of situations. Because while you're looking out for everyone else, no one is looking out for you. Put yourself first, look out for you best interests.

 

That which does not kill us makes us stronger, and que sera sera. I know that I might get hurt again. But if we live life as though it will never hurt is, how do we grow? Without being hurt, how can we ever recognize when we're not being hurt? Without struggle, how can we recognize success?

 

Taking a risk on love is one thing. Taking that risk while all the odds are heavily stacked against you is just foolish.

[corey.the.star]

I really think that it is possible for a man and a woman to just be friends. And to rely on one another as friends would. With nothing else getting in the way. Even if one person has feelings for the other, and the other person doesn't feel the same way. And I've been there, trust me.

 

So, if I wouldn't withhold my friendship from this person had he and I not previously been physically intimate, why do so now?

 

And, for that matter, since historically I've had successful platonic relationships with people that I've been physically intimate with, what makes this any different?!

 

I really don't feel like anything in this world is a waste of time as long as it can be successfully looked upon retrospectively for learning purposes.

[whichwayisup]

I really think that it is possible for a man and a woman to just be friends.

 

Yes it is...But only after ALL the romantic and sexual feelings go away. You cannot 'look' at him without caring from your heart. You're emotionally attached to him too, inlove with him. If you stay friends with him, you're only hurting yourself, and, preventing yourself from opening your heart to someone else. If he chooses to stay with his wife, YOU lose out. In a year from now, will you still be waiting for him?

 

If you choose to stay his life as a friend, you cannot know and be part of what goes on between him and his wife. You can't influence him about his marriage, because of your feelings for him. You either gain or lose from what happens in his marriage.

[corey.the.star]

Yes it is...But only after ALL the romantic and sexual feelings go away. You cannot 'look' at him without caring from your heart. You're emotionally attached to him too, inlove with him. If you stay friends with him, you're only hurting yourself, and, preventing yourself from opening your heart to someone else. If he chooses to stay with his wife, YOU lose out. In a year from now, will you still be waiting for him?

 

But I can turn those feelings off. Or at least hide them. And I come from a place of love in EVERY friendship I have.

 

A year from now, I won't "still" be waiting for him, since I'm not technically waiting for him right now. If I met someone who was as awesome as he is and who treated me the same way he does, I'd pursue that opportunity (sure shot vs gamble and all that).

 

If you choose to stay his life as a friend, you cannot know and be part of what goes on between him and his wife. You can't influence him about his marriage, because of your feelings for him. You either gain or lose from what happens in his marriage.

 

I wrote in a previous post that I am not taking responsibility for what happens between he and his wife. I don't even ask him about things, other than the general, "How are things?" Don't ask, don't tell and all that.

 

Again, I have to say that I respect the feedback that I've gotten here. But I also have to stress that I feel like I am doing the right thing, the best thing for me. And if that feeling changes, well then I'll change what I'm doing until it feels right again. Y'all might be right about this specific situation. But for me, I feel like I'm more right at this particular point in time. And if it turns out that I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Heck, sometimes a gurl just has to learn things the hard way.

[woe_is_me]

You can't just turn feelings 'off' and you can't just have a platonic and successful relationship with this man because you've already crossed the platonic line.

 

You won't meet anyone who compares with him while you are in this mindset.

He is unattainable he is someone you want and can't have and you are stuck in the limerance phase. You could stay this way for years.

 

I was like you are and the only thing that changed it in FIVE years was his W finding out. And in my situation, his actions truly have spoken louder than his words. Dropped like a hot scone!

 

I'm not saying that what happened to me is what will happen with everyone ..MM just seem to all follow the same uncanny patterns though, and i only learnt that from reading and reading and more reading here.

 

A lot of the justifications you make in your posts are your own answers to the very questions you're asking in your original posts. You're going around in circles

 

I hope that things do work out for you ..with or without him.

 

And i remember reading somewhere that the kind of women that MM seek to have A's usually are really gentle, softly spoken, wouldn't hurt a fly kind of girl, intelligent too - usually the last girl you'd suspect to be an OW.

Easy prey.

[corey.the.star]

You can't just turn feelings 'off' and you can't just have a platonic and successful relationship with this man because you've already crossed the platonic line.

 

I agree that the feelings can't be turned off. But they can be there without being acted upon. Yes, they'll colour the way I think of him and make me biased in my dealings with him, but I'm aware of that (and there is bias in every relationship anyway.)

 

You won't meet anyone who compares with him while you are in this mindset.

He is unattainable he is someone you want and can't have and you are stuck in the limerance phase. You could stay this way for years.

For the record, I'm comfortable being in this place - where I'm attracted to men who are completely emotionally unavailable. Not that this is justification for anything, but it's a place I'm comfortable with.

 

Also, don't I read everywhere that you find the person you're looking for when you least expect it? Or when you're not looking for it? What a better way to 'not look for it'...

 

I was like you are and the only thing that changed it in FIVE years was his W finding out. And in my situation, his actions truly have spoken louder than his words. Dropped like a hot scone!

I probably didn't mention that his wife knew that he was seeing someone when we were together. So her finding out isn't an issue.

 

I hope that things do work out for you ..with or without him.

I hope so too! I'm taking measures to make sure I don't get hurt, trust me.

 

And i remember reading somewhere that the kind of women that MM seek to have A's usually are really gentle, softly spoken, wouldn't hurt a fly kind of girl, intelligent too - usually the last girl you'd suspect to be an OW.

Easy prey.

And I have to maintain that at no point was I an 'other woman'. When he and I were seeing each other, he was separated. Now that he no longer considers himself to be separated, I am not seeing him. Thus absolving me from the OW label.

 

And in the future, in order for things to work, he'll need to be divorced.

 

I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me, though! Relationships seem to be paradoxical, and I think they're also very individualized as well. While you have determined what your limitations are, I am still learning, and I feel like I'm making the best choices for me. Again, if I feel differently in the future, I'll change what I'm doing until it does feel right.

[woe_is_me]

I was comfortable during the A. TOO comfortable. I didn't know my limitations either it was he who decided to stop leading the double life.

 

I got over him (just) and already went through the long drawn out process of trying to forget him. I never came to look for the help i have here during his affair with me, or after it. I managed by myself (barely).

I even got to a stage where my sister mentioned him in December last year and i said "oh him..i couldn't care less about him" i realised i'd almost forgotten him..!

 

The reason i'm here is how baffled i am at his calling me four years later (in Feb)

I can't work out why he hasn't worked on his marriage in all that time. Nor do i want to.

I don't even know that i'm not going to hear from him again!

I've heard nothing from him since i accidentally got him busted. Not a word.

I guess everything happens for a reason and those reasons weren't going to allow me to remain a secret.

I can't ever be with him 'properly' unless his W knows about me can i?

And like yourself i will not see him unless he is divorced and living on his own.

In the meantime though i am going through the process of just forgetting about him, again!

I've dated single guys here and there. I find it difficult though because i can't get them to leave me alone! I'm better off not dating at all really.

I do know one pretty special single guy.. he is divorced .. he knows everything about me.. i've mentioned him before. We have seen one another a couple of times but im too shy with the full on intimacy part and i've known him a couple of years! talk about baby steps .. almost backwards.

I'm starting to see MM as a tad cowardly of late since he called in Feb ..he now wants to make out like im some psycho stalker i suppose (not going to happen) and im sure as hell not getting back with my exH (who cheated) so maybe there is hope. It isn't easy trusting guys though after this experience.