Emotional affair over, should marriage end??

[lawrence angel]

I was here about 9 mo ago describing my husbands EA. I received some great advise and since have read books on affairs, marriage builders etc.

 

In short, the EA started out as pure friendship/business relationship about 3 years ago only 6 weeks after our first child was born. He became distant, emotionally abusive, and verbally abusive. I found a cell phone trail in Oct of 2005 of about 100 calls per month between them. S!#% hit the fan and he became a star husband thereafter. We started having marathon sex, great times together, and everthing was looking up. He claimed all phone calls would be business only etc. He said they were never alone, and never talked about their relationships. I frequently questioned him to keep updated about their relationship and he would say it's business only and would hug me and say everything was okay.

 

I really wanted all contact to stop but he said it was necessary. This became an ongoing issue. I listened to a voice mail message from her to him and she was asking him how he was doing. I never told him of this but decided this had to completely stop. Then when we had too much wine one night, he told me they had continued to talk for a few months after I found out, and he felt really guilty about it. He said he wanted both relationships at the time. He said the relationship just slowly dwindled. That explains why I never noticed him being depressed after ending the relationship, cause it didn't!!

 

In Nov 06 she wanted him to do a job for her and I just looked at him with disappointment. He left and called her telling her that all contact had to stop because it was affecting his marriage. Even with this leap, I had had enough, I mean 3 years of this crap. For the first time ever I told him to leave and wanted our marriage to end. I was serious and started the paperwork. I did not believe in him anymore.

 

I had only seen this man cry 2 times in the 11 years of our relationship and all of the sudden he was crying every day in person and on the phone. He also, without my suggestion, was sending me books on creating a happy marriage. For the first time I felt he was truly remorseful for his infidelity. This went on for a couple of weeks until I took him back in our home.

 

I later found out when questioning him, that when the affair was going strong they had discussed relationship problems, which he earlier denied. What else am I going to find out now?? It seems that all those emotions one feels, depression, anxiety, insomnia, and so on are never going to go away, they are worse now!! WTF I mean I read threads here of people who say oh god it's been 6 weeks, 3 mo, but I have known now over a year and feels heart wrenching. I am seriously thinking about getting professional help for my depression. Being educated about mental illness, I know I have a flat affect, I cry myself to sleep sometimes. I can't take this anymore. I am obsessed with these negative thoughts of what happened.

 

For those who suggest MC, we tried that, hmmm, I found out that I was the one who needed help due to my negative thoughts. The MC thought my H was doing all he could do to mend the marriage, but the MC didn't know he was still contacting her either.

 

For those who want to know what emotional needs were not being met, well it all started because my H felt neglected after the baby came along. I took care of myself physically after the baby, I had a happy, clean home with healthy meals on the table, I worshiped his love stick, I tried to make alone time for us, etc. He admits to me he never communicated this problem to me, he just kept it in his head, and justified everything based on his feelings of neglect.

 

Now he says I did nothing wrong, I was just being a mom, and he couldn't accept that. He said I could not have done anything differently at the time, and that it was he who should have communicated his needs. We really did have a beautiful relationship for 8 years until this happened. I don't believe all affairs happen in bad marriages. We had a strong marriage, I think that is what makes this so hard. It seems easier to make a marriage strong if you can figure out what failed and work on it, but I don't know now what to do, I mean, what failed??

 

He believes this would not have happened if he had known that having a close friendship with the opposite sex was wrong. He thought it was okay because sex never took place, he was not sexually attracted to her, and they never talked about sex. Even though their relationship became a secret. He also said that if they had been working together say in an office and not just on the phone, that it could have easily became a physical relationship. I think it scares him because he never thought he could ever have an affair. Boundaries are where it's at, and he understands that now.

 

Any suggestions about what to do now?? I have tried exercising regularly, music, reading, healing books, and I feel worse than ever before. Every time I look at him, I see a dirty, abusive cheat. I am not as sexually attracted to him and I don't feel like trying anymore. Help

[Cinnesyn]

I know how you feel. Unfortunately, I doubt my response is going to help you here. I can't seem to shake the fact that my SO betrayed me in an EA, as much as I'd like to have things back to the way they were before. I thought we were happy together as a couple and found out that apparently he had needs that I wasn't meeting. Too bad he couldn't talk to me and tell me that instead of telling his online honey all his problems, hopes, dreams...

 

All I can think of when he cries that "all actions have consequences and this is the consequence when you chose to persue the friendship with a person of the opposite sex online, even when I begged you to break it off." I catch myself wanting to punish him every single day.

 

I've been thinking of talking to a professional to see if there is a way to forget about the betrayal and stay with him. I seriously doubt it but it's worth a try.

[Ladyjane14]

Any suggestions about what to do now?? I have tried exercising regularly, music, reading, healing books, and I feel worse than ever before. Every time I look at him, I see a dirty, abusive cheat. I am not as sexually attracted to him and I don't feel like trying anymore. Help

 

This is where you have to take the bull by the horns, ladies.

 

There comes a point during the reconcilliation phase at which the wayward has done all he can in order to rectify the situation. Sometimes he's done it all perfectly... and sometimes he hasn't. But that too is normal. People all have their own imperfections and when we choose to love them we have to love them 'warts and all'.

 

Backsliding is fairly typical WS behavior right there in the beginning of the process. It's kind of like busting a crackhead and then putting him on 'the honor system'. No matter how much he promises himself and his spouse that he's going to be good... he still wants some crack. So, it's liable to take him a couple of tries before he gets it right.

 

In your case LA, you brought the house down on him when he flubbed it up and got his attention. Atta-girl!

Because CRISIS is often the only tool a WS will respond to. At that point, you're not talking about some vague ultimatum or some flacid, unsupported boundary. Rock bottom has been reached when the WS realizes that he's not imminently going to lose his spouse, but rather.... he's already lost her.

 

That's a total 'tear-down' of a faulty foundation. But the good news is that there's an opportunity to be had in it in building something new and better.

 

You've handled this beautifully, LA. You've set boundaries. You've enforced them. And you've been VERY clear with your mate about what it's going to take to keep you engaged in the reconcilliation process. So, you've dealt very well with him. NOW... it's time for you to deal with yourself.

 

When something like this happens, you look at the guy you knew and see a stranger, somebody who's capable of ANYTHING. Your faith in him is broken, and you feel like a complete fool for not seeing through the lies. You doubt your own ability to assess other people's character while facing this apparent proof that your judgement is so faulty. It's not just your faith in him that's broken... it's also your faith in yourself.

 

And THIS is where you become proactive.

 

There's a stinking-thinker inside your head. The one who tells you that you're being played, and says you're going to get your feelings hurt again. The one who tells you that things are never going to get better, and that you're just setting yourself up to waste YEARS of your life. She's full of negativity and anger. She's still licking her wounds and keeping them bleeding, preventing them from healing.

 

SHE is the one you have to address now. SHE is the bull whose horns are prodding you in the backside.

 

I can't tell you how many times I caught myself arguing with her, anwering her questions, and sometimes telling her to STFU and not be such a damned coward. But in quiet moments like when you're falling asleep or taking a shower... she has access to you. But hey, you've also got access to her.

 

What I told my "stinking-thinker" was this....

I've already been hurt emotionally worse than I thought somebody could actually hurt me. And I survived it. I'm no longer gullible and the wool will not be pulled over my eyes again like it was before. If he ever took up the notion to cheat me again, I'd catch him in short order. I know what it looks like now. And having survived it once, I KNOW that I can do it again if need be.

 

I will NOT live my life in fear of what might be. I will live in the present. And I will love and accept love fearlessly as is MY choice.

 

I will love my partner in an active way. Because what good is it to love someone if they can't feel it? And I will open myself up to noticing the ways in which he returns my love. I will not place expectations upon him that dictate the kind of love I'm looking to accept, but rather I will give him the freedom to please me in his own way.

 

I will put away the leash and STOP checking. I already have the tools I need to identify problems. I will not be cast in the role of the authoritarian. I will not be his 'mommy'. I will add to my partner's life experience and not subtract from it. I will choose to TRUST in an active way, just as I choose to LOVE in an active way.

 

I will prioritize his needs as if they were my own, because that's the responsibility that I signed on for. And it doesn't matter what other people do, my personal responsibilities are MINE to tend.

 

And IF my efforts are thrown back in my face by betrayal, I am strong enough to deal with it. I have proven already that it is so. I need not fear the role of the fool. Because in the end, I'd rather be a fool than a coward.

 

 

 

I know it sounds kind of silly to recommend to people that they 'talk to themselves'... but sometimes the tough love doesn't stop with your partner. Sometimes you've got to be tough with yourself too. At least I know that's true in my case.

[Trialbyfire]

Wow Ladyjane, insight at it's finest. Much respect to you for being a strong lady with integrity. True strength is being able to admit to yourself the things that you need to correct within yourself, then going and doing it instead of allowing the flaws to take over.

 

Too many people justify their own divergence from integrity and principles by sugar-coating it with "acceptance due to maturity". Temptation is a serpent within the fertile garden of the mind.

[loggrad98]

This may be out of line, but I think emotional affairs can happen to fill an emotional void. Maybe instead of checking up, you need to talk about whether you are both emotionally fulfilled in your relationship and how you two working together can "right the ship" so to speak.

 

Not excusing his behavior...we all go through ups and downs in a relationship and are responsible for our own behavior. Just because the cake is available does not mean we should eat it. But if there are voids it is human nature to try to fill them. Open honest communication can help to keep those voids at a minimum, or fill them quickly with each other, and help both of you in building your relationship. Checking up and ultimatums are breaking you two apart, not pulling you together.

[lawrence angel]

Thanks to you all for your kind empathetic response to my issues. I know there are numerous threads here similar to mine or more dramatic and you could have just as easily said "get over it"

 

Cinnesyn, I read your past threads and wow I guess getting help wouldn't be a bad idea for either of us. You seem to have multiple areas to work on and maybe putting a hold on wedding plans wouldn't be a bad idea. It seems that you keep trying to fix things you find wrong, and he is just doing what he wants. Good luck

 

Ladyjane, you have alot of great powerful words of wisdom floating around in that noggin of yours. I will read your post regularly to keep myself sane. Yes I have a mini me inside my head too, I don't think that's weird, or maybe we are just a bit koo koo. I do have to tell it to STFU when I go to bed at night.

As far as checking up on him, initially when I found out about the calls in Oct 05, I checked for 1 month and they were virtually non existant, so I put 100% trust in him and stopped checking and rarely brought the subject up. I wanted to believe what he told me that it was really nothing but a friendship and he could find other friends. That was my first mistake. Now that I know how addictive affairs can be I should have continued to check instead of having blind trust in him. This whole thing may not have dragged on so long.

The next time I checked was May 06 and saw something I didn't like. He even had her call me then to give me advise on where to stay at this island where we were married. Apparently she has been there multiple times and knows alot of people there. I was nice on the phone with her but told him later that I planned it when we got married without difficulty and I could plan it on my own now. What was he thinking?? This was a woman who was with a man who left his wife for her and was having a secret EA with my husband at the same time. Did he think we would become buddies or something?? Then on our trip he took me to a bar and out of knowwhere he asks the bar tender if they knew the OW and apparently she had told him to go there to get a good deal on drinks. I was very upset at this and the rest of the trip was miserable.

He says now that he should never have involved her in our trip that he wanted to be our second honeymoon.

 

He wanted both of us, the close friendship with her and the intimacy with me. He thought he could have both. He knew how I felt about him talking to her. We had too much wine to drink a couple of months ago and he admitted that he started talking to her again alot a few months after I found out and he felt guilty about it.

 

He took it upon himself to end the relationship with her. I think he waited until the feelings dwindled away and it no longer mattered if he talked with her or not. That is what bothers me the most, it took a year to do that. I think I will continue to check without him knowing until I feel confident and safe. I has only been since Nov 06 that all contact stopped. I cannot have blind trust like I did initially, that is foolish.

 

Logg, I have never given him an ultimatum, I simply told him how it was affecting me and our relationship. I made it clear to him that I don't want him to feel like he is staying with me for the sake of marriage or anything else. That if he wanted to keep in contact with her he would see what is did to us and he finally did when I made him leave our home. He says he has some animosity towards her now because he thought she was a true best friend and now he sees that he knows she knew what she was doing was wrong.

 

As far as filling an emotional void, yes he was filling an emotional void. From his point of view, he saw his best friend and wife of 8 years disappear when the little creature arrived. Instead of joining in the baby fun, he neglected us and got involved in his business and friendships and the rest is written here. I was trying to get him to come around and he was making excuses to be gone. He had a hard time dealing with the baby and breast feeding, and never talked about it, just said he was getting busy with business and stopped coming around. He purposely distanced himself from us and what he was telling me was that he was making more money than ever and he was doing it for our future. I took all the name calling and stress from him with a smile because he convinced me it was due to the hassles of the business and we would have a better future.

[norajane]

In short, the EA started out as pure friendship/business relationship about 3 years ago only 6 weeks after our first child was born. He became distant, emotionally abusive, and verbally abusive.

 

6 weeks after having a child, he turned to some other woman for attention. I guess he didn't expect that the baby would need serious attention from both of you? Is he still verbally abusive?

 

He also, without my suggestion, was sending me books on creating a happy marriage. For the first time I felt he was truly remorseful for his infidelity. This went on for a couple of weeks until I took him back in our home.

 

Did he READ any of those books? Or did he expect you to do all the work?

 

It seems that all those emotions one feels, depression, anxiety, insomnia, and so on are never going to go away, they are worse now!! WTF I mean I read threads here of people who say oh god it's been 6 weeks, 3 mo, but I have known now over a year and feels heart wrenching. I am seriously thinking about getting professional help for my depression. Being educated about mental illness, I know I have a flat affect, I cry myself to sleep sometimes. I can't take this anymore. I am obsessed with these negative thoughts of what happened.

 

Yes, please go to a therapist on your own. There's nothing wrong in seeking help with that. You need to work through your feelings so you can be strong again.

 

For those who suggest MC, we tried that, hmmm, I found out that I was the one who needed help due to my negative thoughts. The MC thought my H was doing all he could do to mend the marriage, but the MC didn't know he was still contacting her either.

 

Go back to marriage counseling now that he can be honest about what was going on. MC doesn't do much good if people aren't being honest. Maybe you will both get more out of it this time. If you want to get past this point in your marriage and try to save it, try the MC again. It can't hurt.

 

For those who want to know what emotional needs were not being met, well it all started because my H felt neglected after the baby came along. I took care of myself physically after the baby, I had a happy, clean home with healthy meals on the table, I worshiped his love stick, I tried to make alone time for us, etc. He admits to me he never communicated this problem to me, he just kept it in his head, and justified everything based on his feelings of neglect.

 

It's common for men to feel neglected after a baby is born. It is not an excuse to have an affair, emotional or otherwise. He could have dealt with the issues directly with you rather than running to someone else. He could have gone to therapy to help him work through his feelings. He could have made an effort to get involved with the baby himself - it's his child too and had he taken some responsibility for its care, he might not have felt so neglected.

 

Is he an involved father now? Or are you still pretty much on your own with taking care of the baby?

 

Now he says I did nothing wrong, I was just being a mom, and he couldn't accept that. He said I could not have done anything differently at the time, and that it was he who should have communicated his needs. We really did have a beautiful relationship for 8 years until this happened. I don't believe all affairs happen in bad marriages. We had a strong marriage, I think that is what makes this so hard. It seems easier to make a marriage strong if you can figure out what failed and work on it, but I don't know now what to do, I mean, what failed??

 

HE failed. He prioritized himself over your child, and showed an appalling lack of understanding of what happens when a baby is added to a family. He also deserted you when you needed him most, when you were at your most vulnerable and probably most exhausted. Instead of reaching out to help you and to be a team, he decided to get off the field and find another game to play in. When the going got tough, his commitment wavered.

 

He believes this would not have happened if he had known that having a close friendship with the opposite sex was wrong. He thought it was okay because sex never took place, he was not sexually attracted to her, and they never talked about sex. Even though their relationship became a secret. He also said that if they had been working together say in an office and not just on the phone, that it could have easily became a physical relationship. I think it scares him because he never thought he could ever have an affair. Boundaries are where it's at, and he understands that now.

 

If he kept it a secret, he KNEW it was wrong.

 

Any suggestions about what to do now?? I have tried exercising regularly, music, reading, healing books, and I feel worse than ever before. Every time I look at him, I see a dirty, abusive cheat. I am not as sexually attracted to him and I don't feel like trying anymore. Help

 

Therapy for you and MC for the both of you. It may have been a whole year since you first found out, but since you are just now finding out more things, this issue is NOT in the past and you can't be expected to just lay it to rest. Obviously, it is creating problems. Your marriage will end sooner or later unless you get some help.

 

Good luck to you.

[JamesM]

LA, I cannot add alot that has been said (so why am I posting? ), but I want to add a different spin from your husband's angle. I do have to say that what has been said is great...ladyjane and norajane have great insights.

 

As a man...good or bad, I can guess that he never viewed the EA as more than a strong friendship. Yes, all men feel neglected when the wife has babies, and yes, I was there too...four times, but that does not make it any easier for the men when each has to go through it on his own. It is a time when men are put on the backburner. even if he becomes involved with the baby, he is still second fiddle. Many men do not have strong feelings for a baby immediately. I know it took a few months every time. The first baby I felt guilty. After that I realized that it was okay...the feelings would come. But when we are first time fathers, we have many emotions and feelings that we need to talk out with someone. Unfortunately, our wives have just as many if not more feelings and emotions. So we as the strong husband are there for her. But nobody is there for us. When the second baby comes, we know the routine, but with the first, it is all strange. That I am guessing is why he started confiding in this woman.

 

I am sure that you were busy with the baby and he felt that you never had time to listen to his emotions and stories, but that does not mean that he could not confide in a friend. I can say that I had a woman friend that was helpful and listened, but she was also a friend of my wife's. There was no need to keep secrets. Yes, she knew feelings that my wife never knew I told her, but that is different than keeping a friendship secret. So, your feelings certainly are valid.

 

Having said that (please don't feel mad at me), I think the part that bothers you most is not the friendship that went too far. I am guessing that it is the fact that he lied and seems to keep lying. I am guessing that the woman is not someone you feel you could trust to recognize you as the wife, but rather she seemed to be someone who wanted your husband for herself. I think if he had made a complete revealing of the whole affair and answered every question openly, you could have moved on. But instead you keep finding that he has kept little details...that mean nothing to him...but mean something to you. Each time you find out something new, the pain of everything else becomes fresh again. Then you wonder what else he kept from you and what new pain you will have to deal with in the future.

 

I believe that you can move on if you can really whack him on the side of the head...figuratively speaking ...and say, "Tell me every detail. Let me know every detail of your day...where you go, who you see and talk to, what you plan to do, etc." Then and only then do I think you can put this thing behind you. Then you can rebuild the trust you had in him.

 

I am sure that he never realized that it would be such a big deal. Most guys think that affair equals sex. Anything less than sex is simply a friendship. What he needs to realize that any friendship that needs to be kept secret from the wife becomes more than a friendship. The question becomes...why is it a secret? If it is no big deal, then why make it a big deal?

 

If he really wants this marriage, he will comply.

[GreenEyedLady]

He says he has some animosity towards her now because he thought she was a true best friend and now he sees that he knows she knew what she was doing was wrong.

 

Just curious, has he ever said that he was wrong? Seems like he's shifting blame here...

[norajane]

He also said that if they had been working together say in an office and not just on the phone, that it could have easily became a physical relationship

 

James, I disagree that it's just the lying that's a problem. He admits that he would have taken the opportunity to make it physical if she had been available. That's pretty crushing to a woman...to know your guy would have f*cked someone else, that he wouldn't have stopped himself for the sake of his family.

[lawrence angel]

6 weeks after having a child, he turned to some other woman for attention. I guess he didn't expect that the baby would need serious attention from both of you? Is he still verbally abusive?

 

Norajane, thanks for analyzing everything in such detail. When my H first met the OW I was out of state with our newborn son showing him off the all my family members. He was suppose to call me that night and never did. This was unusual and when I asked him why he said he was dispatched with this woman who was so cool and they had everything in common, when he was to call me he was eating dinner with her. I was a bit thrown by this because we never had issues of jealosy before like most couples do. He just kept talking about her and how they grew up doing the same work and they were exactly like each other. They liked the same hobbies, their fathers were in the same business etc. When I asked him if she was attractive he said oh no she is just an average girl, so I was a little less bothered by that.

 

A week or so later she and her boyfriend came to our town to go camping, which is a few hours from where she lives. My H invited his male friend up and they went to her campsite to visit her. When he came back he said her boyfriend was an a#%h! because he acted jealous that they were there. I said well no kidding, 2 guys show up at her campsite to see her he reacted quite normally. My husband said but we are just friends.

 

A week after that he and I drove a couple of hours to meet her and her boyfriend at a shooting range so my H could teach her how to shoot a gun. When we arrived we parked and he called her to see when she would be coming. She asked him if I was with him and then called back and said they could not make it because they were too busy with work. I thought that was kind of strange. I know at the time my husband wanted us to become friends with her and her boyfriend because he thought we could do things as couples together. He never mentioned much about her for quite a while after that.

 

I never met her until 2 years later right after I found the cell trail, another story, uncomfortable.

 

The EA did not happen over night, it was very gradual. Neither did the abuse. I know on our sons first birthday my H surprised me by saying we don't have anything in common anymore and I wasn't the woman who wants to do all the things he is interested in. I was crushed and said well did you think about this before we decided to have a baby? I think the first year or so he mainly neglected and rejected both of us, the abuse started about 9 months before I found out. He was calling me names, belittling me, calling his son names, treating me disrespectfully in front of his best male friend. It was so gradual that I can only see the big picture now, and I don't know how I tolerated it for so long.

 

The second I confronted him about the phone trail, the abuse stopped. He has not said one negative thing to me for over a year now. As far as our son, he also started to do more things with him and paying attention to him. He is divorced and has 2 older children, 14 and 17, and I saw nothing but love he gave to them when they were small, that is why I was so excited for him to father my child, so this one still throws me. This didn't happen is his first marriage.

 

Yes my H did actively read the books he recommended to me. I don't think he wants to attempt MC again but I am pondering the idea of help for myself. This is actually helping me immensely given the fact that I have only confided in 2 of my best friends about what happened and that was just a couple of conversations just to keep them abreast. I never talk about this with anyone because I don't know who should really get involved. I think that is why my head is exploding with emotions.

 

James, I do believe our relationship could have been quite fruitful if he had been actively a part of the care. We moved away from all my family and friends only 1 1/2 years prior, to a very small town 1400 miles away. So being completely alone during that time was hard for me, I only recently told him of how I use to hold our baby and cry wishing he was there with me. He had his best friend from our hometown who moved a couple hours from us and his mom and dad (divorced) who lived in different towns but were not actively a part of our sons life due the fact that his mom was grieving over the loss of the death of her special needs child and his dad has about 8 children mostly from different women who he never raised.

We really had knowone to watch our son so that we could have alone time together.

 

I feel like I left everything I knew to be with him and we started this great life together in a town we loved and purposely created a child to continue our happiness together and then I was abruptly thrown down in this dark hole completely alone with my son. In this hole I see a continuous projector with images of all the bad things that took place over the past 3 years. Meanwhile my H had 2 best friends the OW and the friend that moved from our hometown, and also spent countless hours on the phone with his father whom he worked with. I remember him telling me that life was better than ever before, he was just unhappy with his marriage. Whereas prior to all this, life was better than ever before, because of his marriage.

 

James, your right about him coming completely clean, I know that if he was to sit me down and tell me everything, then my mind would begin to ease. We have had many discussions about this. Your exactly right, it is the discovery of a new lie that brings all the emotional turmoil fresh in my mind. It is also the reliving of vacations when we were suppose to be a family and seeing the phone calls of times that he called her when I would be in the shower, or left the room for something, or early morning calls before I would wake up, that haunts me.

 

Greeneyedlady, yes he has said multiple times the very words that he knows his relationship with her was inappropriate and that he was wrong and if he could change the past it would have never happened. He knows now and states that this will never happen again. He just thought a simple friendship with a female was okay and now he says he will never have anything more than a business relationship with a female. He does not want to take a chance and put himself in that position again.

[Palakon]

My sympathies and thoughts go out to all those posting on this thread who have been hurt by their partners EA.

 

I recently discovered my GF's year long EA with only three months to go to our wedding. I have not posted my story on LS, however I just wanted to say that the earlier words of ladyjane meant a lot to me and I look forward to reaching that place she talks about.

 

Good luck all.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm overwhelmed by the kind words. Thanks y'all.

 

I still get real excited about the potential for recovery and forgiveness. Maybe that's why I'm still hanging around LS after all this time. It really is possible to take a relationship that was emotionally dead.. and REINVENT it. That is, provided both people are still highly motivated and willing to work.

 

In a case where we're reasonably certain that the EA has ended... I can't help it, I'm of the opinion that it's important to let go of our vigilance at some point and stop checking. LA has already been burnt on that once, so it's going to be a huge hurdle for her. But nevertheless, once we're pretty sure that we have compliance, checking becomes like some kind of weird security blanket.

 

Sure, there's a risk that our trust might be broken again. But that's an unavoidable risk with any relationship. You could start off fresh with someone new.. and still there's that possibility the new guy would let you down. Now given, we already have a track record here... but even so, there's something special to be had in 'cleaning the slate'. It's a kind of emotional trust that enriches BOTH partners because it puts them back on equal footing.

 

It seems unfair to me to qualify our forgiveness past a certain point. In the beginning, it's absolutely necessary, true. The fact is that forgiveness immediately after an infidelity is a conditional kind of forgiveness. We depend on our formerly wayward partner to prove himself over a period of time.

 

But when a reasonable amount of time has past, and he's shown the ability to step up and take responsibility for his half of the relationship.... it's time to stretch our wings again and offer trust with integrity.

 

We either forgive and move forward, or we don't. This isn't a thing we can offer and then withdraw. Imagine if you are the one who did something wrong, what it feels like to wonder if you are EVER going to be equal again in the partnership. This is the frustration of former waywards. And it's quite frankly pretty scary for them.

 

Only you will know when the time is right. But be prepared... it's still hard to put the 'woobie' down.

You'll have to be strict with yourself to get it done.

[lawrence angel]

Ladyjane, thanks again for your words of inspiration. Forgiveness has not been as hard as not being able to forget, learning to trust, worrying about whether or not his commitment could drift again, and the depression.

 

Seeing who I was 4 years ago seems like a different person all together. I was motivated, happy, smiling all the time and fun to be around. I was the one who brought my H out of his state of mild depression when we met 11 years ago. I haven't seen him down since. I am even having a hard time believing this is me typing this. It has been about 3 years since the slow drift into depression started. I was fine after my son was born, it started about 6 months after his birth when I really began noticing my H changes.

 

I briefly talked about this in an old thread and I don't want to freak anyone out here but I did have a time when I was contemplating suicide. No I am not in that state of mind anymore thank God. This was in Sept 05 about a month before I found the cell trail. I had surgery and was taking pain medication and muscle relaxors to the point that I couldn't even hold up the phone. I didn't realize I was taking so much and I didn't have anyone to monitor my intake. I just remember feeling good for the first time in a long time. When I abruptly stopped taking them after 2 weeks, I began to go through withdrawals. If anyone knows what that is like, wow it is no fun.

 

I also developed an infection at the same time. My H was suppose to pick up an antibiotic for me and he never came back. When I called he was at a restaurant with his dad getting drunk. He showed up 4 hours later with a designated driver and I had to go get the med myself. At the time I was having horrible physical pain along with withdrawals and a high fever from the infection.

 

The next day I could hardly walk, and I just lost my mind. I knew my H had no emotions for me anymore, he yelled at me to get my A off the couch and take care of myself. At that point I just started screaming at him and crying and beating his chest, telling him he didn't love me anymore and screaming why!! I ran to the bedroom and grabbed his gun and wrote a suicide note and then decided to take my son with me in the car and go to the place where we conceived our child and find the highest cliff and jump with my son in my arms. I drove for about 2 hours. My son was crying and I thought he was hungry but I didn't have any money with me so I some how ended up driving myself back home because I knew it would take another 3 hours to get there.

 

I am not proud of what I did on that drug induced out of mind day, and I hate myself everyday for even contemplating such a horrible idea. I do not think any of that would have happened if I had not had surgery. But my mind was finally open. I knew I couldn't tolerate another day of my H loss of emotions and abuse, so I had to find out why.

 

When I finally found the cell trail it was a gut wrenching moment of pain but also a moment of relief. I saw that the day he was getting drunk he was on the phone with her. I finally knew there was a reason for all of the grief and I wasn't just crazy after all like he told me I was.

 

When I look back and see that he completely changed after I found out. The flood of emotions I felt, the smiles, the great sex, and times when he looked in my eyes and lifted me up saying how much he was in love with me, and then finding out that he was regressing back into the EA at the same time, that is the hard part. It just never seemed to end even after countless times of him telling me it was strictly business. That is why I need to know if there was more to it than he has already confessed.

 

I do feel like he is attemping to prove himself now, he is even reading a book that I bought him called "Not Just Friends". This is about EA and PA and all the emotions all parties go through, even the OM/OW, before during and after, a must read. This book says that clinical depression is normal during the recovery period, I guess it has just been so long that I have been dealing with these negative emotions that I am having a hard time making myself get over it. I even tell myself that maybe I am not cut out for marriage if I can be so mentally unstable and unable to handle my emotions to the point of suicide. I think that is one reason I told him to leave and was ready to end my marriage.

[Ladyjane14]

Forgiveness has not been as hard as not being able to forget, learning to trust, worrying about whether or not his commitment could drift again, and the depression.

 

You have to forgive yourself too, LA. It's when the slate is clean that you can put all this behind you.

 

You did some things that you're not proud of. You're probably still feeling guilty about the changes in your personality that happened at the height of your depression. But... give yourself some credit, because where you were before is NOT where you are now. You know, some people never accomplish as much as you already have.

 

I'm an anxious person for the most part. In accepting that fact, I've become aware that oftentimes my energy is WASTED in worries about things that I have no control over. Recognizing this seldom stops me from worrying.. but it DOES make it possible for me to choose my actions based on intellect rather than emotion.

 

You already know that you're wasting energy in worrying about what might happen in the future. You already know that you can't make other people's choices for them. If this guy is of a mind to cheat you again... there's not a damn thing you can do that will stop him. All you can do in that case is KNOW that you're able to pick up the pieces and move on with your life.

 

But THAT's the important bit, isn't it? Knowing that you can always count on YOU.

 

This is where self-forgiveness comes into play. You need to bolster up your belief in yourself, and you can't do that with this big albatross hanging around your neck about what you did in the past when you were under the influence of a major depression. Forgive yourself and let it go. That way, the HEALTHY you can shine forth.

 

Mutual forgiveness can be a hugely powerful tool in reconciliation. When you and your partner forgive each and every trespass, you can 'clean the slate' and start new TODAY. The weight of the world lifts off of your shoulders and off of your partner's too.

 

For my husband and I, it was 20 years of a little of this and a little of that... all leading up to mutual resentment. But in moments, it was GONE.

 

It's the easiest thing in the world to do. The trick is staying with it. You have to remind yourselves on a DAILY basis for a long time that you made this choice to put the sins of the past behind you. That's the hard part. But after awhile, it gets easier and easier. Before you know it, you only need to remind yourself once a week... and then once a month.

 

This is a pact that you make with the one you love and with yourself. And you wouldn't believe what it does for the emotional intimacy of the relationship, or how it empowers you.

[JamesM]

Wow, LA, I am sorry for all the pain you have endured. Your husband sure acted like a jerk. And if he was in the middle of an EA, then that would explain why he could care less while you were in pain. I am glad that you never followed thru with the suicide plan. You would have missed so much of your son's life.

 

Men unfortunately do have the habit of not realizing that their wives are in pain and agony...especially if the wife has been the "caretaker" of the house and relationship. Since it sounds like you made sure everything ran properly, then I am guessing when you did have pain you hid it. If you brought him out of depression, he views you as the strong one...not that he will admit that too quickly.

 

LJ has some great advice. And if I had a chance to talk with your husband, I could give him some advice from experience. My wife is also the strong one in some areas. So, when she is sick and in pain while these things need to be done, I need to self motivate my butt into motion. If I don't fill in, then she also has the stress of knowing that messes will be waiting for her.

 

I am glad that you are better, and I hope that your husband catches on to the changes that need to be made.

[lawrence angel]

Ladyjane and James, thanks for the support. I know I have the tools and the knowledge to get my life back in order. Getting motivated is my goal. I am going to make a list of all the things I want to accomplish and try to reinvent myself. My goals for now are to go back to work a little more, (yes, I love my job) start doing something artistic, as I enjoy painting and such, get IC, boosting up my exercise routine, and of course investing more time in positive thoughts about my marriage. Gosh I hope I can stay motivated.

 

One of the most difficult parts is just watching my husband leave for work. I always wonder if he is going to run into the OW, or if she might call him, or if other workers are talking about her to him etc. It is also hard just being in our home. I sometimes feel alot of negative energy due to what has happened in our home. At times I feel like moving would help, but my husband tells me I would be running from my problems.

 

Now back to a more positive note, I have spent a couple to weeks out of state with family and I want to go back and tell my husband what my plans are. Wish me luck. If anyone has an further advise feel free to post. Thanks again