Another trial separation chapter 2

[PWSX3]

Today I finally got to go see our counsoler after all her bad luck in her family. The first time she cancelled her dad pasted away then when me & the W were to meet her mom passed away. I found out her mom had cancer and was getting better but after her husband passed away she told her 3 daughters it was time to go and she passed away in 3 days.

Anyway I feel this appointment was the start of me turning my life around. Sure I have been working on it with all the help from people here and reading books. She was impressed at what I have been doing and all the information that I have collected.

I am learning what I was doing wrong but I still need to figure out why and get to the root of why.

I feel I have opened the door and I'm inside but the light at the end of the tunnel is a LONG WAYS AWAY because it's still pretty damn dark!!!!!

The counsoler explained to me how things I did would effect the W and things the W would do would affect me and it's always been that way. I know there are things the W will need to do but the only thing I can hope is she will realize it because if not then there is nothing I will be able to do except to move on without her.

Anyway I hope I still can get the great support that I have so far and I will have questions to help me thru my journey.

Our counsoler did say something that made a lot of since and that was; the couple that plays together, stays together and I have to agree with that because when we were doing things such as our 4-wheeling we had a lot of fun.

The next time we both see the counsoler is set for Oct. 25th and that will be the first time we have seen each other.

[Gunny376]

The counsoler explained to me how things I did would effect the W and things the W would do would affect me and it's always been that way. I know there are things the W will need to do but the only thing I can hope is she will realize it because if not then there is nothing I will be able to do except to move on without her.

 

I call these's "Life Trap's" you're skipping along the merry little bunny trail, and everything is going fine, and then "Bam!" Right between the eyes. Then comes what I call "The Stroms Of Life" and like your counselor just went through they sometimes roll in one right after the other. Add in the day to day rat race, of trying to just keep a roof over your head, food in your mouth, your health, and all these things add up ~ before you know it you said ~ she said, she re-acts, your re-act, there's hurt feeling, you fall into a negative sprial, and you spin out of control like a Spitfire that just got its tail flamed by a Messerchimdt. And, then its down, down down you go. Some couples get so caught up in the downward, negative spirial they forget what the origianl arugment was about. This is where the NC separation does work and comes in handy ~ if you're caught up fighting just for the sake of fighting and forgot what the intial argument was about. It also allows both parties time and space to heal. Which is essential if there's any chance of getting back together.

 

 

Anyway I hope I still can get the great support that I have so far and I will have questions to help me thru my journey.

 

I'm on-board with the stipulation and qualification that the absolute best adivce I can give you or anyone else ~ is to not necessarly follow any advice I give you.

 

Our counsoler did say something that made a lot of since and that was; the couple that plays together, stays together and I have to agree with that because when we were doing things such as our 4-wheeling we had a lot of fun.

 

That's basic and fundamental to any relationship you have or may have with any woman. Or any woman with any man. Cydia Lapeir wasn't talking "smack" when she said "Girls Just Want To Have Fun!" You show me a gay that can make a woman, smile, laugh, and always have a good time and I'll show you a man who's a success with women.

 

To be honest most women's (and men's) lives are filled with the mudane, the mediorce, the day to day, the boring. One-third of our day is spent just sleeping, how much is consumed with the mudance and boring ~ (but necessary) chores of day to day living. Another third is committed to slaving away at a job many of us loathe. We all need some "ahhhh" moments, and peace and quiet, and just time to oursleves.

 

In one of your posts on another threads, you spoke of some of the things that you did for your wife ~ but you didn't mention little things, like, "I'm taking Patrick to the Mall (or somewhere) for eight hours, why don't you just take a long hot bath, do your nails, and get all girly.

 

Yea, you've got to keep it fun, and you've got to fight to keep it that way, because the outside world is trying so hard to steal so much away from us.

 

I'm finding out more and more as I get older, that the key to happiness is to just keep things simple. A simple lifestyle and a simple life. I get credit card offers in the mail. and I'm like ~ "Thanks, but no thanks ~ I prefer my freedom!" I see people busting their azz trying to live the "successful life" and keep up with the Jones', that's not the life for me. I see those tv shows about the lifestyles of the rich and famous, and I see the "Rich, stressed out, un-happy, addicted, and drunk." People that have money spend all thier time, effort, and energy worrying about losing what they've got.

[Lor]

One of the best pieces of advice I was given was this:

 

If you always put your work or your kids before your M, when the kids are grown, moved away and you're retired, what will you have?

[ilmw]

One of the best pieces of advice I was given was this:

 

If you always put your work or your kids before your M, when the kids are grown, moved away and you're retired, what will you have?

 

Good point....its something I have learned too.. in the past few months..

[PWSX3]

I have felt like I am making very good process on making myself a better person so I bought myself a Ipod and it showed up last night. I was going to just get the 4G but a friend talked me into the 30G so I can put all kinds of music on there and also put little videos of us 4-wheeling.

Since I've been walking and riding my bike it will be nice to have some music and I don't have to borrow my boys anymore.

 

Now I want to save up so I can join a health club because it's starting to get a little chili outside and I don't want to stop the exercise specially after how far I've come.

[flowerpot]

I call these's "Life Trap's" you're skipping along the merry little bunny trail, and everything is going fine, and then "Bam!" Right between the eyes. Then comes what I call "The Stroms Of Life" and like your counselor just went through they sometimes roll in one right after the other. Add in the day to day rat race, of trying to just keep a roof over your head, food in your mouth, your health, and all these things add up ~ before you know it you said ~ she said, she re-acts, your re-act, there's hurt feeling, you fall into a negative sprial, and you spin out of control like a Spitfire that just got its tail flamed by a Messerchimdt. And, then its down, down down you go. Some couples get so caught up in the downward, negative spirial they forget what the origianl arugment was about. This is where the NC separation does work and comes in handy ~ if you're caught up fighting just for the sake of fighting and forgot what the intial argument was about. It also allows both parties time and space to heal. Which is essential if there's any chance of getting back tog

 

 

 

I'm on-board with the stipulation and qualification that the absolute best adivce I can give you or anyone else ~ is to not necessarly follow any advice I give you.

 

 

 

That's basic and fundamental to any relationship you have or may have with any woman. Or any woman with any man. Cydia Lapeir wasn't talking "smack" when she said "Girls Just Want To Have Fun!" You show me a gay that can make a woman, smile, laugh, and always have a good time and I'll show you a man who's a success with women.

 

To be honest most women's (and men's) lives are filled with the mudane, the mediorce, the day to day, the boring. One-third of our day is spent just sleeping, how much is consumed with the mudance and boring ~ (but necessary) chores of day to day living. Another third is committed to slaving away at a job many of us loathe. We all need some "ahhhh" moments, and peace and quiet, and just time to oursleves.

 

In one of your posts on another threads, you spoke of some of the things that you did for your wife ~ but you didn't mention little things, like, "I'm taking Patrick to the Mall (or somewhere) for eight hours, why don't you just take a long hot bath, do your nails, and get all girly.

 

Yea, you've got to keep it fun, and you've got to fight to keep it that way, because the outside world is trying so hard to steal so much away from us.

 

I'm finding out more and more as I get older, that the key to happiness is to just keep things simple. A simple lifestyle and a simple life. I get credit card offers in the mail. and I'm like ~ "Thanks, but no thanks ~ I prefer my freedom!" I see people busting their azz trying to live the "successful life" and keep up with the Jones', that's not the life for me. I see those tv shows about the lifestyles of the rich and famous, and I see the "Rich, stressed out, un-happy, addicted, and drunk." People that have money spend all thier time, effort, and energy worrying about losing what they've got.

 

 

Gunny, I too was caught up in the spiral, I was too afraid of loosing what I had in the material sense. I lost tract in what I had in the spiritial things in life, I spent so much energy worring about loosing what I have.

I feel so vain!!!!!!!!! FP

[Gunny376]

As I said FP, "Lifetraps" and the "Storms of Life"

 

After years and years of struggling, and striving

 

I'm finally somewhere I'm "happy"

 

I'm not rich, wealthy, well to do. But I've got peace. I don't have everything I want, (who ever does?) but I've got everything that I need.

 

I like my job, the job that I have. I like the people that I work for, and the people that I work with. The job I've got, is easy, low stress, no stress. Half of my income is guaranteed.

 

I've been Blessed! God has laid before me many truly wonderful things! I've just been too blind to see them!

[PWSX3]

I know it's only been 6 weeks but the counselor said something that got me thinking. Yes I know I don't suppose to think about her because I can't change or control who she is or what she does.

The counselor called the W and asked how things were going and she said; she was doing fine and having fun.

Now I look at it as she is just doing whatever "she" wants to do and being responsible isn't one of them. She bought a fish tank instead of putting money towards getting her car fixed, she still isn't worrying about her weight or how she eats, or how clean the house is so this is how I am looking at it.

The counsoler also suggested to me that she might not be ready to work on the relationship right now that she still has some growing up to do and hasn't realized it. I have to remember she has never lived on her own and so this is all new to her and sometime the newness will wear off and reality might set in.

 

I know these are things that are not in my cotrol and I can't do anything about them, but what I can control is if these things do bother me then I need to decide if "I" want to still work on our relationship if they are important to me.

At this time I really don't have those "love" feelings for her like I used to have and I'm not sure if that is because I am trying to push her out of my life just in case it doesn't work out and it makes it easier for me or if I just don't have them anymore for her????

As I read books and learn more about myself and about what makes a good marriage I start getting thoughts of maybe we have drifted apart. I am getting older and looking more at the future and maybe she is just looking at day to day and doesn't care about what happens down the road.

Hopefully some of you will have a opinion to share so maybe I can see a different side or another aproach.

 

Gunny I have to agree with you, the older I get the more having money doesn't mean that much. If you make more money you spend more money. My dad always told me that it isn't how much you make but how much you can save and it's taken me all these years to see that.

I would much rather spend a day with the family and friends, or my folks then spend a day at the office/work in order to make more money.

Right now I have to work every other Saturday in the morning and I hate it because that is half a day of my time that I could be out doing something I want to do.

Once you retire you won't be able to maybe do some of the things that I can do now so why not enjoy them now while you have a chance.

[Lor]

Now I look at it as she is just doing whatever "she" wants to do and being responsible isn't one of them. She bought a fish tank instead of putting money towards getting her car fixed, she still isn't worrying about her weight or how she eats, or how clean the house is so this is how I am looking at it.

 

So, still trying to control her, huh? What business is it of yours how she spends her money? If her car breaks down on her, then that's her problem, not yours. Maybe the fish tank is something she always wanted but you figured it was a worthless toy that doesn't do anything for you....how's the iPod, hon? She wants to live in a dirty house? She wants to eat how she wants? Doesn't feel like worrying about her weight right now? So frickin' what??!!

 

Jeez, P, take a step back cuz you just lost points....She is living a life that she was always too timid to try at before. How many times have you said she needs to toughen up and take a stance for herself...this is what she is doing but all of a sudden it's wrong??

 

Have you ever watched the movie Sleeping with the Enemy? When Julia Roberts leaves her abusive H and gets her own place she catches herself still organizing the food in the pantry and straightening the towels in the bathroom....so she messes them up. Guess what--same thing your W is now doing--all that stuff she couldn't do before. Why is it okay for you to go out and blow money on an iPod and join a gym but its not okay for her to blow her money on a fishtank?....sounds like you have some growing up to do yet, too, hon.

[PWSX3]

Thanks Lor,

This is things I need to hear so I can see how my controlling has effected her and how much I do need to change.

The point with the fish tank isn't she bought something she wanted too but that she hasn't paid me or my dad for fixing her car. Everyone told me that I shouldn't have fixed it for her she could have just gotten it fixed herself.

 

It has been only a couple months for me so I'm still learning and I know I have a LONG WAYS to go. Sure would be nice if they just had a pill I could take....

I see getting a handle on this controlling behavior is going to be one of the biggest things I have ever done.

 

Thanks for keepig me on the reality trail.

NOTE TO SELF: Don't worry about the wife, just "FOCUS ON ME"

If I want to change make the changes for me and no one else.......

[IpAncA]

So, still trying to control her, huh? What business is it of yours how she spends her money? If her car breaks down on her, then that's her problem, not yours. Maybe the fish tank is something she always wanted but you figured it was a worthless toy that doesn't do anything for you....how's the iPod, hon? She wants to live in a dirty house? She wants to eat how she wants? Doesn't feel like worrying about her weight right now? So frickin' what??!!

 

Jeez, P, take a step back cuz you just lost points....She is living a life that she was always too timid to try at before. How many times have you said she needs to toughen up and take a stance for herself...this is what she is doing but all of a sudden it's wrong??

 

Have you ever watched the movie Sleeping with the Enemy? When Julia Roberts leaves her abusive H and gets her own place she catches herself still organizing the food in the pantry and straightening the towels in the bathroom....so she messes them up. Guess what--same thing your W is now doing--all that stuff she couldn't do before. Why is it okay for you to go out and blow money on an iPod and join a gym but its not okay for her to blow her money on a fishtank?....sounds like you have some growing up to do yet, too, hon.

 

Exactly. Sorry about this P but its hard to follow your posts here on this. Your all over on this site. Is your w seeking counsel too or does she still think this is all your fault? Just wondering because its been a month or so. Also I'm glad that you are trying to stop your controlling behavior. Its going to be hard but you can do it.

[PWSX3]

Exactly. Sorry about this P but its hard to follow your posts here on this. Your all over on this site. Is your w seeking counsel too or does she still think this is all your fault? Just wondering because its been a month or so. Also I'm glad that you are trying to stop your controlling behavior. Its going to be hard but you can do it.

We were suppose to see our counselor together last month but she had two deaths in the family so it was suppose to been the 19th this month but got pushed to the 25th so we haven't talked or seen each other since Aug. 31st.

Does the W blame me for all of this I have no idea because we haven't talked.

I'm starting to doubt myself about winning the battle over the controlling part because it seems like anything I have done is controlling and the scariest part is until people point it out I don't realize I am doing it....

Tonight me & my son went out with my folks for supper and I see a lot of me in my mom. My son wanted a lemonade and I just told him to ask the waitress for one when she came around if he wanted one and instead my mom saw her coming up behind him and told her my son wanted a lemonade before he had a chance.

Now I could see myself doing that and I might have even asked her myself but I thought about it and decided it was up to him to ask if he wanted a lemonade.

I guess I need more one on one with our counselor and stop worrying about what will happen to me and the W. I try and put it out of my head but evidently it still is there.

[IpAncA]

Yeah I see what your saying about the controlling behavior but it doesn't sound like it's that bad unless your not telling us the full blown parts which I understand if you don't. Since you and w are not talking, just be careful what you say about her in front of your son because he might go back and tell her and I know that from experience myself. To me this situation doesn't seem right. I can understand the no contact thing for a month but it doesn't sound like she is doing anything to help yours and hers relationship. I get that she is just having fun but come on. Sounds like shes acting like you locked her up or something and she's experiencing freedom for the first time. I don't know why but I'm interested as to what happends when you speak to her for the first time since you separated if you speak at all. IMO I would just focus on yourself because it will only help you later in life and try to not think about her and her having fun thing. But I'm sure that you know this, the only way to make a marriage work or to get back together again, it has to be from both sides, not one. I don't know here. Is anyone else getting this or something close?

[PWSX3]

Lor I know the truth hurts and I did get down on myself some this evening but I went on line and started reading again about controlling and it said with help you can overcome it but it takes lot of time and don't beat yourself up so I got myself back into a better mood, grabbed my Boundaries book and I'm going to read.

I just wished there was more information out there to help the controller, there is plenty of stuff out there for the controll-e. I do plan on asking the counsoler if there are support groups for this.

 

IpAncA I try and be as up front as I can on both sides and at first I did catch myself saying bad things about the W in front of my son but we sat down and talked about it and I am doing a lot better. We have sat down and talked about this many of times and I try to tell him the truth as much as I know it.

What Lor said does make since and someone else also told me the same thing. If I had someone telling me what to do all the time and I was able to do it for myself I would be doing all the things I wasn't able to do.

We have a new boss at my work that wants to know everything that is going on and the other day we had words so I told our counsoler about it and she said for me to journal how I feel when he askes me what I'm doing or asked who called, etc. She also said the reason I had words with him is I won't put up with it were the W wouldn't.

I don't plan on saying a lot when we see each other. I want to listen for a change and like Dgiirl said; don't expect anything just go in and see what happens, don't try and be in control.

[Lor]

Don't get down on yourself too much, P. Hopefully I wasn't too strong in what I'd wrote.....but you've been talking about the strides you've made, then you come back with being critical about her behavior again. Actions, hon....that's what it all comes down to. Words are very cheap.

 

Should she be paying you? Yep.....but hey, the "friend" I let use my old SUV shouldn't have blown the tranny and should have insisted on paying for the damages when the truck was hit in the parking lot (if that's what happened ). Point is--I'm not happy about it but that was the risk I took when letting them borrow it, so my bad for being nice. Its only a material thing and I wrote it off.

 

And don't get me wrong about you getting the iPod and joining the gym--that's great and do it!! You're focus should be on you and on what you want with your life. You want your M to work, and it seems like there isn't a whole lot you can do about it since only one of you is working on it--or so it seems. If you stop and think about it, in her own way she's working on herself, too, getting some self-esteem and building up her own confidence. Let her make mistakes, let her find out what it means to live her own life--she's never done that before, right? Take a step back and be an observer for a while.

 

Oh, and the lemonade thing....there's controlling and then there's being a parent. I wouldn't read too much into that kind of behavior as being controlling. I do the same thing for my kids at times, plus I still cut up their meat. There is a difference.

 

Hang in there and keep reading, keep doing the counselling.....although I don't agree with your counsellor telling you what your W said. Shouldn't that be between them alone? I wouldn't trust a counsellor that would call my H to tell him what I'd said....

[everlong]

congrats on tackling big issues that have deep roots - when someone 'sees' others as controling when in fact they are doing that..it is a hard thing to shake but now that u have become aware u are have way home

 

that;s what i did, next step is 'see' the triggers, and once u do that, its all down hill from there..

 

i will give u an example of how a 'controling person' views the other as controling and not themself

 

let's say i ask lori out for a baskin robbin ice cream cone...and lets say that i think she is pretty darn delicious and a great person, so it's my treat. so, we get there - and i know what flavour she likes because she always wears strawberry coloured undies...opppppppsy..i mean track suits...[she is confident in herself and doesn't need to get dolled up to impress me...because its the confidence that is sexy]..so i walk up order two...triple scoops and bring it over to her...

 

now...that;s just a nice thing to do

 

but

 

lets say lori has control issues [which she doesn't - this is just a made for tv reinactment] see would think 'the nerve of him, didn't even ask me what i wanted, and i don't like to be babied, and he is flaunting his big money around..."

 

see, the difference?

 

ok..that's for me everyone...i wish you all happiness and good health and lots of love

[PWSX3]

Don't get down on yourself too much, P. Hopefully I wasn't too strong in what I'd wrote.....but you've been talking about the strides you've made, then you come back with being critical about her behavior again. Actions, hon....that's what it all comes down to. Words are very cheap.

Yes you came down on me pretty hard but for some reason that is the best way for me to understand what I need to do and it helps me see things I still need to work on. Seems like I take two steps forward then one big step backwards but I'm hoping the more I learn the smaller that step backwards will get. Remember I've been like this probably for most of my life and to change it around it will take a few more hits over the head for me to see what I'm doing wrong but I appreciate peoples input because I know you are doing it to help me learn.

Should she be paying you? Yep.....but hey, the "friend" I let use my old SUV shouldn't have blown the tranny and should have insisted on paying for the damages when the truck was hit in the parking lot (if that's what happened ). Point is--I'm not happy about it but that was the risk I took when letting them borrow it, so my bad for being nice. Its only a material thing and I wrote it off.

I guess I need to look at it this way, it was my choice to fix her car and I should have thought it out a little better, at the time I was doing it just to be nice but deep down I was doing it to make browny points with the W, which didn't mean squat to her.

And don't get me wrong about you getting the iPod and joining the gym--that's great and do it!! You're focus should be on you and on what you want with your life. You want your M to work, and it seems like there isn't a whole lot you can do about it since only one of you is working on it--or so it seems. If you stop and think about it, in her own way she's working on herself, too, getting some self-esteem and building up her own confidence. Let her make mistakes, let her find out what it means to live her own life--she's never done that before, right? Take a step back and be an observer for a while.

This is something I keep forgetting, the reason she said she needed her space is to grow up. If we ever do get back together I'll need her to be strong to stand up to me. That will be the only way we won't fall back into the old ways. If we don't both learn to be strong we will just fall back into that same old routine.

Oh, and the lemonade thing....there's controlling and then there's being a parent. I wouldn't read too much into that kind of behavior as being controlling. I do the same thing for my kids at times, plus I still cut up their meat. There is a difference.

 

My son is 16 so I figure he is old enough to ask for himself.

Hang in there and keep reading, keep doing the counselling.....although I don't agree with your counsellor telling you what your W said. Shouldn't that be between them alone? I wouldn't trust a counsellor that would call my H to tell him what I'd said....

Lor please keep giving me help/advice when you feel moved to because I do appreciate it. I am taking this very serious and weather we get back together or not I'll still need to change my behavior.

How many woman on here after reading my story would want to date or live with me the way I am now???? Not to many I would think, plus believe it or not I am starting to feel better as a person. It comes slow but I have noticed I'm not as stressed and I don't get as mad as I used to (that might be because there isn't anyone around to yell at except for me because if something isn't done it's because I haven't done it) and I've even had people tell me that I seem happier when I don't feel happy.

[Lor]

My son is 16 and sometimes I'm still babying him... Now, if he'd said he wanted a Coke and I grabbed the waitress before he did to say that he wanted a lemonade.....that's controlling. If I tell her before he does, maybe he didn't know she was there or just my parenting instincts coming out...?? good question.

 

Who would want to date you right now? I think you'd be surprised. But, before you start tackling that mountain you need to finish strapping on the gear and climbing the hills. and I know, you aren't seriously thinking of it--just a thought that crossed your mind, right? For every step forward you take you're gonna get pushed back several times. don't get down on yourself for backtracking; its all in the learning. You're doin' fine.

 

Gotta love that 2x4, right? :lmao: I've been hit with it a few times myself! And you project that you're more relaxed, not so much happier. True happiness comes later when you are comfortable with yourself and where your life is then. Give it time; you'll be happier again, too.

[Lor]

I guess I need to look at it this way, it was my choice to fix her car and I should have thought it out a little better, at the time I was doing it just to be nice but deep down I was doing it to make browny points with the W, which didn't mean squat to her.

 

Oh and btw, yes it does mean squat......whether someone shows you appreciation, doesn't pay you, or acts like its their just due in life.

 

Best comic strip ever: For Better Or For Worse

Michael goes out, buys lumber and supplies to fix his landlady's front steps. While he's out there, the downstairs neighbor comes out, telling Michael he needs to take that off his rent and get reimbursed for his time. When the landlady comes out and he shows her what he's done, she throws her arms around him and has tears in her eyes.

Michael turns to the neighbor and simply says "Paid in full."

 

That is what doing things for people is all about....self satisfaction, not glory.

[ilmw]

Oh and btw, yes it does mean squat......whether someone shows you appreciation, doesn't pay you, or acts like its their just due in life.

 

Best comic strip ever: For Better Or For Worse

Michael goes out, buys lumber and supplies to fix his landlady's front steps. While he's out there, the downstairs neighbor comes out, telling Michael he needs to take that off his rent and get reimbursed for his time. When the landlady comes out and he shows her what he's done, she throws her arms around him and has tears in her eyes.

Michael turns to the neighbor and simply says "Paid in full."

 

That is what doing things for people is all about....self satisfaction, not glory.

 

Thanks Lor.. another great post that got me thinking. :)

 

I once thought of the .. I do this for you... so you will have to do this for me.. like bartering for love.. I see now.... after many years:o That the reward is in the giving... with no expectation of return... its not a business it is... plane old being a decent human being.. who wants to be kind and make another smile... Wow! Who is that guy in the reflection of my monitor..

 

ilmw:cool: .....

[dgiirl]

Wow! Who is that guy in the reflection of my monitor..

 

one cute stud muffin!!... oh wait, that's me lol jk

[Lor]

one cute stud muffin!!... oh wait, that's me lol jk

 

Stud muffin? D, have you been working out?

[PWSX3]

I once thought of the .. I do this for you... so you will have to do this for me.. like bartering for love.. I see now.... after many years:o That the reward is in the giving... with no expectation of return.

Been there, done that. So it takes years to figure this out? Hopefully I catch on quick because I'm already getting old and I want to enjoy these fun things everyone is enjoying!!!!

[dgiirl]

Stud muffin? D, have you been working out?

 

lol yah and it seems a good shave too lol

[PWSX3]

You girls are way to funny!:lmao: