Together for 7 years, engaged for 1, unhappy, need to make a life-changing decision

This could get lengthy, but if you guys can offer me 1/2 of the advice the big thread in this forum got, I would be thrilled.

I'll start from the beginning.

We started dating at 19, our first year in college. She was my first girlfriend of more than 6 months, and I was her first boyfriend of more than 1 year.

I had done my messing around with girls here and there, had sex with two people before her, etc. What pushed me toward her was not only her beauty, but the fact that she wasn't "like other girls." She was not a drinker, partier, etc. She was quiet, but funny. Cute, but not "hot." I liked her, I pursued her, and I landed her.

College was up and down. We had fights as normal couples do, but I soon changed my lifestyle of going out and partying to sitting in on weekends a lot of the time. I was pretty whipped over her because I thought she was amazing, so I went along with it. We didn't have sex until 6 months into the relationship. Since I really wasn't too experienced in sex (nor was she) missionary was satisfactory for me for the next year. Once I wanted to start changing positions and she said "no," that should've been my red flag. She also did NOT give oral. Again, another red flag I missed because I was "blinded" by love.

Over the next couple of years I had the same two major issues with her:

1) She never wanted to go out

2) She never wanted anything more than plain sex

In college and at the beginning of the relationship, it was fine. But as the relationship grew, it was not fine. I talked about her umteen times about it, but she gave me the "this is how I am, I'm not a party girl, and I'm not slutty and going to go down on you and let you bend me over like we're in a porno."

I considered ending it for those two reasons because she was never willing to meet me halfway. I curbed my going out life for her, but yet she would never EVER go out. I wanted to be more experimental in bed, she didn't.

After college was a problem because we were both in grad school AND working...AND we lived an hour away from each other...so we only saw each other on the weekends. We knew it would be like that until we could afford a place together. With that, we would have sex every other weekend, if that. I had a problem with that, but she said once we moved in together, it would be easier because we wouldn't be sneaking around (living under our parents roof).

Fast forward to 6 months ago. We bought a house together (big mistake, please take it easy on me because I REALIZE it was a mistake).

I took her word for it that once we moved in together the sex would improve. At first, it didn't. We fought a LOT in the first 3 months, to the point where we almost broke up 3 times.

There were also some very major issues involved, such as her father being VERY overbearing on work around MY house. He basically thought I was helpless (which I'm not), so he would push all of these home projects on my fiancee...and essentially, on me. He would start showing up at the house at random times. Finally I told her that it needed to stop, and that I wanted privacy: Unless her father called in advance, he was not welcome over at the house. Now BARE IN MIND I can, without exagerrating, say that he came to the house 30-40 times unannounced with a "hey let's work on this" with NO regard to what I was doing at that time (sleeping, eating, ready to go the gym, etc.). After that comment, she told me I had no respect for her father and that he was just trying to help. She ignored me for 3 days and didn't say a word.

Coincidentally I was going away that weekend for my friends bachelor party. I come home on Sunday (obviously hungover), only to find her and her father putting up blinds that I didn't pick out or have any say on. I looked at both of them, and went to bed for the next 5 hours.

I woke up, called her into the main room, and ended it. I told her that this is not going to work out anymore, that we've tried everything. I told her that she had no respect for me, sided with her parents on any issue involving me and them, brought up the sex issues, etc. Basically, I told her it was a list of things.

Shockingly, she broke down and cried, saying she'll change and that she's sorry for everything and how the first several months have been...and how she needs to mature....how I am her everything, how she will never be able to find someone like me...or anyone in general...at 26. I suggested counseling. She said okay. I took her back, but we never went since things got better.

Since that point, things have been much better. However, the two fundamental issues are still a problem: We never go out, and the sex is bad. When we have sex, it's because I have nagged for it. She does NOT enjoy it. She will NOT do any other position than missionary and girl on top.

I'm 26 years old with a bad sex life and bored out of my mind. I blame myself for 1/2 of this, I knew what I was getting into. However, her line of "the sex will improve and we will be able to do more" I blame her for...because she did lead me on. She refuses to go to a sex counselor also.

To complicate things even more, her father got me my job and we work at the same company. I know this shouldn't have an effect on my decision, but it does. With the way the economy is, they don't need a reason to fire me (or anyone). He HAS the muscle to get me fired, so don't anyone question it. It's not that I can't find another job, but the field I'm in right now is almost what you'd call a dying breed...and I would need to almost start my career over...more than likely going back to school. That's a bit scary.

So what now?

Am I being selfish by being so concerned with sex and going out? Or am I in the right? I don't know...I just can't see myself having average, boring sex for the rest of my life. I also can EASILY see the second she pops out one kid for the sex to go to virtually none.

How do I handle this situation? It's been killing me. Do I stay another 3 months? 6 months? Year. I know I'm going to get a ton of "you need to talk to her's," but we've talked about this thing before. She's NOT going to to start initiating/making an effort in bed, and she's NOT going to start going out on the weekends.

Thank you.

Funny - I got half that problem.

My wife does not like to go out. So mostly we don't go out to clubs/bars. But she will do adventurous stuff life.

But in bed - she is a total firecracker - and very full of ideas - mostly excellent ideas.

I would not stay with someone so boring in bed/so against going out.

After your first baby - sex will go to once a month at most.

This could get lengthy, but if you guys can offer me 1/2 of the advice the big thread in this forum got, I would be thrilled.

 

I'll start from the beginning.

 

We started dating at 19, our first year in college. She was my first girlfriend of more than 6 months, and I was her first boyfriend of more than 1 year.

 

I had done my messing around with girls here and there, had sex with two people before her, etc. What pushed me toward her was not only her beauty, but the fact that she wasn't "like other girls." She was not a drinker, partier, etc. She was quiet, but funny. Cute, but not "hot." I liked her, I pursued her, and I landed her.

 

College was up and down. We had fights as normal couples do, but I soon changed my lifestyle of going out and partying to sitting in on weekends a lot of the time. I was pretty whipped over her because I thought she was amazing, so I went along with it. We didn't have sex until 6 months into the relationship. Since I really wasn't too experienced in sex (nor was she) missionary was satisfactory for me for the next year. Once I wanted to start changing positions and she said "no," that should've been my red flag. She also did NOT give oral. Again, another red flag I missed because I was "blinded" by love.

 

Over the next couple of years I had the same two major issues with her:

 

1) She never wanted to go out

2) She never wanted anything more than plain sex

 

In college and at the beginning of the relationship, it was fine. But as the relationship grew, it was not fine. I talked about her umteen times about it, but she gave me the "this is how I am, I'm not a party girl, and I'm not slutty and going to go down on you and let you bend me over like we're in a porno."

 

I considered ending it for those two reasons because she was never willing to meet me halfway. I curbed my going out life for her, but yet she would never EVER go out. I wanted to be more experimental in bed, she didn't.

 

After college was a problem because we were both in grad school AND working...AND we lived an hour away from each other...so we only saw each other on the weekends. We knew it would be like that until we could afford a place together. With that, we would have sex every other weekend, if that. I had a problem with that, but she said once we moved in together, it would be easier because we wouldn't be sneaking around (living under our parents roof).

 

Fast forward to 6 months ago. We bought a house together (big mistake, please take it easy on me because I REALIZE it was a mistake).

 

I took her word for it that once we moved in together the sex would improve. At first, it didn't. We fought a LOT in the first 3 months, to the point where we almost broke up 3 times.

 

There were also some very major issues involved, such as her father being VERY overbearing on work around MY house. He basically thought I was helpless (which I'm not), so he would push all of these home projects on my fiancee...and essentially, on me. He would start showing up at the house at random times. Finally I told her that it needed to stop, and that I wanted privacy: Unless her father called in advance, he was not welcome over at the house. Now BARE IN MIND I can, without exagerrating, say that he came to the house 30-40 times unannounced with a "hey let's work on this" with NO regard to what I was doing at that time (sleeping, eating, ready to go the gym, etc.). After that comment, she told me I had no respect for her father and that he was just trying to help. She ignored me for 3 days and didn't say a word.

 

Coincidentally I was going away that weekend for my friends bachelor party. I come home on Sunday (obviously hungover), only to find her and her father putting up blinds that I didn't pick out or have any say on. I looked at both of them, and went to bed for the next 5 hours.

 

I woke up, called her into the main room, and ended it. I told her that this is not going to work out anymore, that we've tried everything. I told her that she had no respect for me, sided with her parents on any issue involving me and them, brought up the sex issues, etc. Basically, I told her it was a list of things.

 

Shockingly, she broke down and cried, saying she'll change and that she's sorry for everything and how the first several months have been...and how she needs to mature....how I am her everything, how she will never be able to find someone like me...or anyone in general...at 26. I suggested counseling. She said okay. I took her back, but we never went since things got better.

 

Since that point, things have been much better. However, the two fundamental issues are still a problem: We never go out, and the sex is bad. When we have sex, it's because I have nagged for it. She does NOT enjoy it. She will NOT do any other position than missionary and girl on top.

 

I'm 26 years old with a bad sex life and bored out of my mind. I blame myself for 1/2 of this, I knew what I was getting into. However, her line of "the sex will improve and we will be able to do more" I blame her for...because she did lead me on. She refuses to go to a sex counselor also.

 

To complicate things even more, her father got me my job and we work at the same company. I know this shouldn't have an effect on my decision, but it does. With the way the economy is, they don't need a reason to fire me (or anyone). He HAS the muscle to get me fired, so don't anyone question it. It's not that I can't find another job, but the field I'm in right now is almost what you'd call a dying breed...and I would need to almost start my career over...more than likely going back to school. That's a bit scary.

 

So what now?

 

Am I being selfish by being so concerned with sex and going out? Or am I in the right? I don't know...I just can't see myself having average, boring sex for the rest of my life. I also can EASILY see the second she pops out one kid for the sex to go to virtually none.

 

How do I handle this situation? It's been killing me. Do I stay another 3 months? 6 months? Year. I know I'm going to get a ton of "you need to talk to her's," but we've talked about this thing before. She's NOT going to to start initiating/making an effort in bed, and she's NOT going to start going out on the weekends.

 

Thank you.

I think marriage counselling here is in order... you owe your marriage and your wife one last shot before you go separate ways...

Here's the truth, if one of you isn't happy than in the long run neither of you will be. If she isn't interested in sex now than that's not going to change. It's going to get worse. Yes, you made some mistakes like staying this long. buying a house or getting engaged but it's not too late. You're not married yet and you shouldn't let it get to that point.

I'm in what amounts to a sexless marriage (we had sex this morning for the first time in 7 weeks). We get together on this maybe 6-10 times/yr. Not enough for me I can tell you. The difference is I generally feel respected by my wife it sounds like you don't even have that much.

I realize that the house/job situation make it scary but just be willing to walk away if you have to. Split the proceeds of the house or let her have it on her own if she's willing to have you written off the deed.

You're young, you don't have kids...you should be having some fun. If she isn't up for it maybe you need a different dance partner.

Funny - I got half that problem.

 

My wife does not like to go out. So mostly we don't go out to clubs/bars. But she will do adventurous stuff life.

 

But in bed - she is a total firecracker - and very full of ideas - mostly excellent ideas.

 

I would not stay with someone so boring in bed/so against going out.

 

After your first baby - sex will go to once a month at most.

I'm sure what the OP needed to know was that you have a great sex life (we others already know) and your wife is a real firecracker in bed......

OP.... She mentioned counseling, follow through and set up an appointment and do it now. Do you have an EAP through work to cover the cost?

Also you can talk to her, but it has gone nowhere...... Buy her a book or two or three about sexuality and being intimate.... Both of you read it.

Finally...... You're a man, don't make a scene about blinds!!!! A good 50% of my mistakes in marriage is making a big deal about my spouse wants to do about home furnishing or design..... It's your house (the two of you), but to be sexist, it is almost always the woman who has greater attachment to the furnishings, blinds, curtains and stuff then any male.... Unless it is truly hideous, take a deep breath, count to 3 and decide whether it is a deal breaker..... For the life of me I can't for a second understand how blinds could push someone over the edge.....

Oh and through counseling don't be surprised if some of her issues sexually are related to her relationship with her dad, which has been brought up throughout your post (surprisingly not the mother).

Skip the counseling...all you're going to do is find out what her sexual hang-ups are and then one of two things will happen:

1-The sex will not change.

2-It will change long enough for you to marry her and then it will disappear again.

Don't do it. Walk away.

Oh, one other thing will have happened, you'll hve spent a buttload of money on therapy and books.

Oh, one other thing will have happened, you'll hve spent a buttload of money on therapy and books.

Yes maybe too late, but give the guy some hope that it can be fixed.....

Why give him hope? He's been with the girl for 7 years...he's 26...she won't give head...can you imagine living your life between the age of 19-26 and not getting a BJ? You think any amount of therapy is going to change that? She has stolen some of the most sexually active years of your life, get out while it won't cost you alimony.

I think marriage counselling here is in order... you owe your marriage and your wife one last shot before you go separate ways...

Well we're not married, but I'm sure the same thing applies with a fiancee.

The problem is this: How is marriage counseling going to solve two fundamental problems: Sex and Social Life. I don't have any issues with the rest of the relationship. However, sex is a big one, as is having fun outside of the home.

I've long suspected (and suggested) that her not being open to sex has to do with her father being dominating her whole life. I don't think he (or anyone) has touched her inappropriately, but then again I can only go on what she tells me.

Her reluctance to ever keep serious female relationships I think has been a big problem. I won't lie, it has made me lose contact with a lot of my good friends over the years, because a "guys" night out was few and far between when my girl never had (or wanted) a girls night out. She simply has stated "Girls are bitches, I don't trust them." I also don't know how she thought being friends with guys was ever better. I'm a guy, and I know when I've ever been friends with a girl in the past (as in good friends), it's because I've had some type of sexual attraction to her. As mentioned before, all of these guy "friends" she had dropped off the face of the earth when they realize she was not going to leave me.

I just don't know how a relationship counselor is going to make her start initiaiting/enjoying not only regular sex...but to spice things up, AND to start going out.

Here's the truth, if one of you isn't happy than in the long run neither of you will be. If she isn't interested in sex now than that's not going to change. It's going to get worse. Yes, you made some mistakes like staying this long. buying a house or getting engaged but it's not too late. You're not married yet and you shouldn't let it get to that point.

 

I'm in what amounts to a sexless marriage (we had sex this morning for the first time in 7 weeks). We get together on this maybe 6-10 times/yr. Not enough for me I can tell you. The difference is I generally feel respected by my wife it sounds like you don't even have that much.

 

I realize that the house/job situation make it scary but just be willing to walk away if you have to. Split the proceeds of the house or let her have it on her own if she's willing to have you written off the deed.

 

You're young, you don't have kids...you should be having some fun. If she isn't up for it maybe you need a different dance partner.

Do you think I'm being selfish if I do leave?

Granted, she has known that I've been unhappy with our sex/social life, so she had the option of leaving herself at one point, but still.

No, I did not say 'til death do us part," but I did propose to her, and when that happens, you're accepting everything. I don't know, I just feel guilty that if I do end things, that I've screwed her out of 7 years of finding compatible mates. The older you get, the smaller the selection gets for women. It's easier for guys.

As for you though, why are you together still if the lack of sex bothers you?

I'm sure what the OP needed to know was that you have a great sex life (we others already know) and your wife is a real firecracker in bed......

 

OP.... She mentioned counseling, follow through and set up an appointment and do it now. Do you have an EAP through work to cover the cost?

 

Also you can talk to her, but it has gone nowhere...... Buy her a book or two or three about sexuality and being intimate.... Both of you read it.

 

Finally...... You're a man, don't make a scene about blinds!!!! A good 50% of my mistakes in marriage is making a big deal about my spouse wants to do about home furnishing or design..... It's your house (the two of you), but to be sexist, it is almost always the woman who has greater attachment to the furnishings, blinds, curtains and stuff then any male.... Unless it is truly hideous, take a deep breath, count to 3 and decide whether it is a deal breaker..... For the life of me I can't for a second understand how blinds could push someone over the edge.....

 

Oh and through counseling don't be surprised if some of her issues sexually are related to her relationship with her dad, which has been brought up throughout your post (surprisingly not the mother).

With the counseling, not sure how much my work covers, but if it meant making my relationship better, I can't really put a price on that (well, I'm sure if it's high enough I can).

And the point of the blinds wasn't the fact that she was putting them up, it was the tip of the iceberg that once again her father seemed to be the man of "my" house and making decisions on "my" house. My fiancee could've picked them out without my input, but I should've been the ones putting them up, not her father. He doesn't live here.

Skip the counseling...all you're going to do is find out what her sexual hang-ups are and then one of two things will happen:

 

1-The sex will not change.

 

2-It will change long enough for you to marry her and then it will disappear again.

 

Don't do it. Walk away.

I'm afraid of #2. Very afraid.

Oh, one other thing will have happened, you'll hve spent a buttload of money on therapy and books.

The money doesn't concern me if it means I knew I gave it my last try.

Why give him hope? He's been with the girl for 7 years...he's 26...she won't give head...can you imagine living your life between the age of 19-26 and not getting a BJ? You think any amount of therapy is going to change that? She has stolen some of the most sexually active years of your life, get out while it won't cost you alimony.

I'll admit, I resent her for the lack of sex during this time. I used to hear my friends talking about having sex with all of these women. I wasn't jealous of the fact of the number of women some of them slept with, it was the fact that I was in a committed relationship, and they were getting more sex than I was. That bothered me.

The blowjob thing somehow didn't bother me as much up until the last year or so. The more I think about it, I'm being robbed. I haven't gotten a blowjob since I've been 18 years old, and that's sad.

Boxdiver,

There are loosely two types of posters here.

Type 1: Those who are frustrated in their marriage and are looking to vent, commiserate with others, feel a sense of connection to people who have the same problem, and in some cases, try to find a solution

Type 2: Those who are closet therapists, like to help other people and think they understand this stuff pretty well because they are overall happy in their marriage.

One hazard of these boards is that because there are so many Type 1 contributors, it gives you a very low expectation for what you will get sexually in marriage. I am here to tell you that a good marriage is NOT like that. A good marriage is sexually solid.

There are way too many guys who post on here some joke about wedding cakes take a way a womans desire to give bjs. I only have my personal experience - so one data point - but there was no change from the high frequency before the wedding to the frequency after the wedding.

You have told your fiancee you are unhappy about some stuff. She is the only person you get to have sex with the rest of your life. She is a woman and will likely outlive you - just demographics. So this is it.

I have a simple message for you. This is a mantra you need to memorize and repeat to give you strength to do what you need. AS A MAN YOU CAN NOT BE HAPPILY MARRIED IF YOU FEEL SEXUALLY CHEATED YOUR WHOLE LIFE.

She is still young. She will find someone else. She has taken you for granted. You need to walk away because if not, she will likely gag down a few hummers until either after the wedding or after the first kid at which point she will starve you of sex to such a degree that you will pray for her to just allow you missionary sex.

I will tell you one thing. I have read many, many - hundreds of stories and not a single one that starts out like yours ever improves. They either remain steady state over time 10 percent - or they get somewhat to very much worse. A THERAPIST CANNOT MAKE YOUR WOMAN LIKE SEX.

Let her find a man with a low libido to go have a long mostly platonic, not angry/conflicted marriage with.

And you go find a hot blooded woman - yes like I did - thank God for that - who will f**k your brains out and who thinks giving a bj is a fun and normal part of foreplay - and doesn't mind if you want her to make it the endplay as well.

And as for your two comments - I replied to both very deliberately. My wife being not so social has placed some limitations on what I do. I have a once a month pizza night, I could probably go out twice a month without friction. Beyond that there would be some low intensity conflict. I am not going to a MC for that. An MC cannot help my wife be more social nor make her feel good about the fact her husband is more social. All the MC can do is point out she is being selfish acting that way. It won't change her feelings and I love her enough to not want to make her feel bad by going out weekly when I know it will make her feel bad.

But the point I guess I was trying to make is that you will make some compromises in your spouse. Just don't make them in the bedroom. Or you will end up on this board for the next 30 trying to solve and unsolvable problem. How to get a woman who does not like sex - to like sex.

Well we're not married, but I'm sure the same thing applies with a fiancee.

 

The problem is this: How is marriage counseling going to solve two fundamental problems: Sex and Social Life. I don't have any issues with the rest of the relationship. However, sex is a big one, as is having fun outside of the home.

 

I've long suspected (and suggested) that her not being open to sex has to do with her father being dominating her whole life. I don't think he (or anyone) has touched her inappropriately, but then again I can only go on what she tells me.

 

Her reluctance to ever keep serious female relationships I think has been a big problem. I won't lie, it has made me lose contact with a lot of my good friends over the years, because a "guys" night out was few and far between when my girl never had (or wanted) a girls night out. She simply has stated "Girls are bitches, I don't trust them." I also don't know how she thought being friends with guys was ever better. I'm a guy, and I know when I've ever been friends with a girl in the past (as in good friends), it's because I've had some type of sexual attraction to her. As mentioned before, all of these guy "friends" she had dropped off the face of the earth when they realize she was not going to leave me.

 

I just don't know how a relationship counselor is going to make her start initiaiting/enjoying not only regular sex...but to spice things up, AND to start going out.

 

 

 

Do you think I'm being selfish if I do leave?

 

Granted, she has known that I've been unhappy with our sex/social life, so she had the option of leaving herself at one point, but still.

 

No, I did not say 'til death do us part," but I did propose to her, and when that happens, you're accepting everything. I don't know, I just feel guilty that if I do end things, that I've screwed her out of 7 years of finding compatible mates. The older you get, the smaller the selection gets for women. It's easier for guys.

 

As for you though, why are you together still if the lack of sex bothers you?

 

 

 

With the counseling, not sure how much my work covers, but if it meant making my relationship better, I can't really put a price on that (well, I'm sure if it's high enough I can).

 

And the point of the blinds wasn't the fact that she was putting them up, it was the tip of the iceberg that once again her father seemed to be the man of "my" house and making decisions on "my" house. My fiancee could've picked them out without my input, but I should've been the ones putting them up, not her father. He doesn't live here.

 

 

 

I'm afraid of #2. Very afraid.

 

 

 

The money doesn't concern me if it means I knew I gave it my last try.

 

 

 

I'll admit, I resent her for the lack of sex during this time. I used to hear my friends talking about having sex with all of these women. I wasn't jealous of the fact of the number of women some of them slept with, it was the fact that I was in a committed relationship, and they were getting more sex than I was. That bothered me.

 

The blowjob thing somehow didn't bother me as much up until the last year or so. The more I think about it, I'm being robbed. I haven't gotten a blowjob since I've been 18 years old, and that's sad.

Boxdiver,

There are loosely two types of posters here.

 

Type 1: Those who are frustrated in their marriage and are looking to vent, commiserate with others, feel a sense of connection to people who have the same problem, and in some cases, try to find a solution

 

Type 2: Those who are closet therapists, like to help other people and think they understand this stuff pretty well because they are overall happy in their marriage.

 

One hazard of these boards is that because there are so many Type 1 contributors, it gives you a very low expectation for what you will get sexually in marriage. I am here to tell you that a good marriage is NOT like that. A good marriage is sexually solid.

 

There are way too many guys who post on here some joke about wedding cakes take a way a womans desire to give bjs. I only have my personal experience - so one data point - but there was no change from the high frequency before the wedding to the frequency after the wedding.

 

You have told your fiancee you are unhappy about some stuff. She is the only person you get to have sex with the rest of your life. She is a woman and will likely outlive you - just demographics. So this is it.

 

I have a simple message for you. This is a mantra you need to memorize and repeat to give you strength to do what you need. AS A MAN YOU CAN NOT BE HAPPILY MARRIED IF YOU FEEL SEXUALLY CHEATED YOUR WHOLE LIFE.

 

She is still young. She will find someone else. She has taken you for granted. You need to walk away because if not, she will likely gag down a few hummers until either after the wedding or after the first kid at which point she will starve you of sex to such a degree that you will pray for her to just allow you missionary sex.

 

I will tell you one thing. I have read many, many - hundreds of stories and not a single one that starts out like yours ever improves. They either remain steady state over time 10 percent - or they get somewhat to very much worse. A THERAPIST CANNOT MAKE YOUR WOMAN LIKE SEX.

 

Let her find a man with a low libido to go have a long mostly platonic, not angry/conflicted marriage with.

 

And you go find a hot blooded woman - yes like I did - thank God for that - who will f**k your brains out and who thinks giving a bj is a fun and normal part of foreplay - and doesn't mind if you want her to make it the endplay as well.

 

And as for your two comments - I replied to both very deliberately. My wife being not so social has placed some limitations on what I do. I have a once a month pizza night, I could probably go out twice a month without friction. Beyond that there would be some low intensity conflict. I am not going to a MC for that. An MC cannot help my wife be more social nor make her feel good about the fact her husband is more social. All the MC can do is point out she is being selfish acting that way. It won't change her feelings and I love her enough to not want to make her feel bad by going out weekly when I know it will make her feel bad.

 

But the point I guess I was trying to make is that you will make some compromises in your spouse. Just don't make them in the bedroom. Or you will end up on this board for the next 30 trying to solve and unsolvable problem. How to get a woman who does not like sex - to like sex.

Thanks for the kind words.

I think the biggest issue here is that I feel guilty and that I "owe" her more, and I'll explain why.

She made it clear to me years ago that she wasn't going to be a big partier and that she wasn't going to be a freak in bed. I guess the fact that I thought I could "change" the sex part in her was my mistake.

On the other hand, giving blow jobs, and having sex doggie style, in the kitchen, in the shower, etc. isn't freaky (in my opinion). I think there was a break in the communication somewhere when she said sex would be better and more frequent when we bought a house. I assumed that to be more positions/trying new things, she didn't.

I'm at the point that I truly know that if things continue this way (especially in the bedroom) that one day I'll have no option but to cheat. Many people out there haven't had this problem, but knowing that your partner does not desire you sexually/physically is a terrible feeling. And knowing they are going through the motions with sex and doing it for you doesn't help.

As for counseling, I've read that if sexual counseling reveals things of the past, then they can be solved. I'm not saying it's likely.

I just don't know why I feel like the guilty party here if I end things. I mean, yes, I have some friends to lean on that could take me out for some drinks...but it's not like I have 10 guys lined up. She, on the other hand, doesn't have anyone...literally.

Then I try to think of it this way: Let's say some accident tomorrow prevented her from being able to have sex with me for the rest of her life (hypothetically), would I stay with her? Yes, yes I would. I've believe that as her fiancee, and the fact that I love her, it's my responsibility (and also that I'd want to) be with her.

But with both of our reproductive parts working, I feel like I'm being cheated.

Why do I feel guilty, and why do I feel I would regret it if I ended this thing?

BD,

I have 2 daughters. If either of them were in her situation - with a guy who was reaching his breaking point for the reasons you are I would tell her to let him go and find someone she was more compatible with in the bedroom. This will be the identical advice I give my son in this situation and to all 3 of them if they are marrying someone who has financial expectations of them that are not realistic.

Of course you feel guilty. You love this woman and she sounds quite nice and clearly loves you though she is NOT in love with you. Very early in the relationship - like in the first year you should have said what your sexual line in the sand was. And then given her a little time to get there or end it. You really are not asking for very much. 90 percent of the women you will date will have zero problem with what you want.

The real issue is that she is not IN LOVE with you the way a man wants his wife to love him. The two huge giveaways are her allowing the father to walk all over you with the home improvement projects and the total lack of effort to please you sexually.

So you are guilty as hell for not demanding that she love you enough early on. And she is every bit as guilty for not loving you as much as you love her. That is the issue - to a large degree this is a choice. And it is driven by a core belief. She doesn't think sex is that big a deal. Hell it isn't that big a deal to her. She wishes you would just get over it. And the one thing true of all spouses who dislike sex. The MORE committed you get into the relationship, either the wedding vows, or kids, the more comfortable they are showing their true colors and just flat out denying you sex entirely. You are heading directly into a sexless marriage. There is no hell more bitterly cold then that.

I will take you on a quick stroll down memory lane. First time I went down on a girl I was in my late teens and I didn't like it. But I could tell she did like it. And I liked her a lot. So I did it a few more times and got used to it. Then I wanted to do it, and it just became one more really nice thing I could do for her. If I hadn't really liked her, I never would have gotten outside my comfort zone and done it the first time.

If you marry someone KNOWING that you will be unhappy and eventually cheat - then you are not being rational. You can remain her friend until she finds another guy - in the meantime her family will support the hell out of her. Based on your description of her, she will have a new man in her life shortly and be married in 2 years.

As for therapy - forcing someone to go to therapy under the threat of ending the relationship is a trainwreck waiting to happen. She will have strong incentive to lie/mislead etc. You have requested therapy to help in a core area that is important to you. She has refused. End of story.

And as for getting fired - if you do an extended financial settlement that is favorable to her - give her better then a 50/50 split - but make that settlement contingent on you keeping your job - maybe her father will not get you fired since it will be taking money directly out of her pockets.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

I think the biggest issue here is that I feel guilty and that I "owe" her more, and I'll explain why.

 

She made it clear to me years ago that she wasn't going to be a big partier and that she wasn't going to be a freak in bed. I guess the fact that I thought I could "change" the sex part in her was my mistake.

 

On the other hand, giving blow jobs, and having sex doggie style, in the kitchen, in the shower, etc. isn't freaky (in my opinion). I think there was a break in the communication somewhere when she said sex would be better and more frequent when we bought a house. I assumed that to be more positions/trying new things, she didn't.

 

I'm at the point that I truly know that if things continue this way (especially in the bedroom) that one day I'll have no option but to cheat. Many people out there haven't had this problem, but knowing that your partner does not desire you sexually/physically is a terrible feeling. And knowing they are going through the motions with sex and doing it for you doesn't help.

 

As for counseling, I've read that if sexual counseling reveals things of the past, then they can be solved. I'm not saying it's likely.

 

I just don't know why I feel like the guilty party here if I end things. I mean, yes, I have some friends to lean on that could take me out for some drinks...but it's not like I have 10 guys lined up. She, on the other hand, doesn't have anyone...literally.

 

Then I try to think of it this way: Let's say some accident tomorrow prevented her from being able to have sex with me for the rest of her life (hypothetically), would I stay with her? Yes, yes I would. I've believe that as her fiancee, and the fact that I love her, it's my responsibility (and also that I'd want to) be with her.

 

But with both of our reproductive parts working, I feel like I'm being cheated.

 

Why do I feel guilty, and why do I feel I would regret it if I ended this thing?

OP- you are not responsible for making sure she has friends. Not only is a sexless marriage bad for you, a life where you are her only friend is not good for her (or you).

can you tolerate it long enough to go back to school? cause it sounds like you're going to have to suck it up for awhile, it does sound like daddy will screw with you on this. i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't like you at all. but what ever you do for gods sake don't knock her up.

Get out now while you can. You're miserable now, and you're not even married. It' gets MUCH worse after that ring is in place.

Take a bite on the home and bail before it's too late.

BD,

 

I have 2 daughters. If either of them were in her situation - with a guy who was reaching his breaking point for the reasons you are I would tell her to let him go and find someone she was more compatible with in the bedroom. This will be the identical advice I give my son in this situation and to all 3 of them if they are marrying someone who has financial expectations of them that are not realistic.

 

Of course you feel guilty. You love this woman and she sounds quite nice and clearly loves you though she is NOT in love with you. Very early in the relationship - like in the first year you should have said what your sexual line in the sand was. And then given her a little time to get there or end it. You really are not asking for very much. 90 percent of the women you will date will have zero problem with what you want.

 

The real issue is that she is not IN LOVE with you the way a man wants his wife to love him. The two huge giveaways are her allowing the father to walk all over you with the home improvement projects and the total lack of effort to please you sexually.

 

So you are guilty as hell for not demanding that she love you enough early on. And she is every bit as guilty for not loving you as much as you love her. That is the issue - to a large degree this is a choice. And it is driven by a core belief. She doesn't think sex is that big a deal. Hell it isn't that big a deal to her. She wishes you would just get over it. And the one thing true of all spouses who dislike sex. The MORE committed you get into the relationship, either the wedding vows, or kids, the more comfortable they are showing their true colors and just flat out denying you sex entirely. You are heading directly into a sexless marriage. There is no hell more bitterly cold then that.

 

I will take you on a quick stroll down memory lane. First time I went down on a girl I was in my late teens and I didn't like it. But I could tell she did like it. And I liked her a lot. So I did it a few more times and got used to it. Then I wanted to do it, and it just became one more really nice thing I could do for her. If I hadn't really liked her, I never would have gotten outside my comfort zone and done it the first time.

 

If you marry someone KNOWING that you will be unhappy and eventually cheat - then you are not being rational. You can remain her friend until she finds another guy - in the meantime her family will support the hell out of her. Based on your description of her, she will have a new man in her life shortly and be married in 2 years.

 

As for therapy - forcing someone to go to therapy under the threat of ending the relationship is a trainwreck waiting to happen. She will have strong incentive to lie/mislead etc. You have requested therapy to help in a core area that is important to you. She has refused. End of story.

 

And as for getting fired - if you do an extended financial settlement that is favorable to her - give her better then a 50/50 split - but make that settlement contingent on you keeping your job - maybe her father will not get you fired since it will be taking money directly out of her pockets.

1) Do you believe there is any way, aside from a breakup, to get her to realize just how important sex is to me? (even though I've explained it to her, asked to go to counseling, etc.)

2) I agree with your therapy theory, and those are my thoughts on it. I also believe that she would resent me for it.

3) Since we're not married, there isn't going to be a settlement. It will simply be "we're selling the house, this is what you put down, this is what I put down, end of story." I know I'm making it sound easier than it is, but this whole thing isn't going to turn into an issue. If it somehow did, I would give her more just to speed things up.

4) I know her father. He would cut off his nose to spite his face. He would rather lose money and know I lost money in the process (since he has more) than to call it even. He'd have no problem getting me fired and wouldn't think twice about it.

OP- you are not responsible for making sure she has friends. Not only is a sexless marriage bad for you, a life where you are her only friend is not good for her (or you).

Agreed, I just don't know why I feel so responsible for it.

can you tolerate it long enough to go back to school? cause it sounds like you're going to have to suck it up for awhile, it does sound like daddy will screw with you on this. i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't like you at all. but what ever you do for gods sake don't knock her up.

Yeah, I can tolerate it for a little while longer...but the clock is ticking. I feel like if I'm going to end this I need to do it soon. I also don't think I can decide in 2-3 months what my new career is going to be. If I do, it would make things easier. I just don't want to be sitting around unemployed. Unemployment money is good, but still doesn't look good on the resume...AND...I still don't even know what field I'd get into after this. Let's just say the field I am in is specialized.

But you're right, daddy will screw me on this...and I'm pretty certain he'll do his best to make sure I don't get a severance package of any kind.

I guess I still don't know why I feel shallow for this. I guess the fact that everything else is going well right now in our lives aside from the sex and my yearning to go out once in a while makes me think I'd be making a mistake.

I mean what I really want to say to her is "listen, our sex life is terrible right now...and missionary sex does nothing for me anymore. Either I start receiving blow jobs, be able to do it doggie style/in the shower/etc., or this isn't going to work out. I mean....can I give an ultimatum like that? If not, how can I word it more nicely?

You're young and you love her..... Every person/situation is different. Where MC does not work in many cases it works in others.

You need to start doing some things for yourself to show independence and encourage the same for her.

I said and stand by getting books for the both of you (Sexuality section in the bookstore).

I you love her you will exhaust these options and put a time limit on it (i.e. 6 months-1 year).

Make sure you do not set a wedding day or get her pregnant.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Why do I feel guilty, and why do I feel I would regret it if I ended this thing?

you feel guilty because initially you accepted her as she was, and now you dont. its as if you're breaking a promise of sorts. almost like you were lying or leading her on, as she thought you could take how she was.

you feel you may regret it because its natural to. after years of being with a person, the one major reason people have for staying is the fear they will regret it. its totally normal to feel this way.

if you left of course you would hurt inside and miss her, but that would fade eventually.

its the lesser of two evils. stay and be unhappy forever, or bite the big one, do what you feel is right and accept you will hurt for a while AND feel guilt over the break up.

the fact that you feel guilty just means you are a caring person.

but ultimately, you are the person who matters, and you have to do what is right for you.

if you go, although you will feel bad, she will get over it, dont doubt that and allow it to cloud your judgement.

BD,

Consider the sequence of events:

- You threatened to end the relationship over family intrusiveness/bad sex

- In response she promised to do anything needed to fix things

- Her actual response has been to tell her Dad to stop being a pain in the neck - no change in sexual behavior

- She has also resisted counseling - really resisted it

You only have two choices - accept her or leave her.

Books and therapy work ok only when BOTH people actively want to change. She is currently betting your future that you won't walk over the sex thing. So forget about all the nice little things young lovers whisper in each others ears. The raw truth of this situation is - she dislikes sex more then she loves you. You can't change that and it will be cruel to her and intensely frustrating for you to try.

So the simple question for you to ask yourself is: Can I be happy in a marriage with a very limited, very infrequent sexual relationship and a minimal level of socializing? If the answer is yes proceed. If no, then immediately proceed to career plan B - either moving to another company in your niche - if that means a relocation so be it.

I agree with your assessment of the father in law. He is going to take his best shot. So if it were me, I would quietly find another job and once I accepted the job offer would break off the relationship. You do not want to be trying to explain that your father in law got you fired for the rest of your life.

1) Do you believe there is any way, aside from a breakup, to get her to realize just how important sex is to me? (even though I've explained it to her, asked to go to counseling, etc.)

 

2) I agree with your therapy theory, and those are my thoughts on it. I also believe that she would resent me for it.

 

3) Since we're not married, there isn't going to be a settlement. It will simply be "we're selling the house, this is what you put down, this is what I put down, end of story." I know I'm making it sound easier than it is, but this whole thing isn't going to turn into an issue. If it somehow did, I would give her more just to speed things up.

 

4) I know her father. He would cut off his nose to spite his face. He would rather lose money and know I lost money in the process (since he has more) than to call it even. He'd have no problem getting me fired and wouldn't think twice about it.

 

 

 

Agreed, I just don't know why I feel so responsible for it.

 

 

 

Yeah, I can tolerate it for a little while longer...but the clock is ticking. I feel like if I'm going to end this I need to do it soon. I also don't think I can decide in 2-3 months what my new career is going to be. If I do, it would make things easier. I just don't want to be sitting around unemployed. Unemployment money is good, but still doesn't look good on the resume...AND...I still don't even know what field I'd get into after this. Let's just say the field I am in is specialized.

 

But you're right, daddy will screw me on this...and I'm pretty certain he'll do his best to make sure I don't get a severance package of any kind.

 

 

I guess I still don't know why I feel shallow for this. I guess the fact that everything else is going well right now in our lives aside from the sex and my yearning to go out once in a while makes me think I'd be making a mistake.

 

I mean what I really want to say to her is "listen, our sex life is terrible right now...and missionary sex does nothing for me anymore. Either I start receiving blow jobs, be able to do it doggie style/in the shower/etc., or this isn't going to work out. I mean....can I give an ultimatum like that? If not, how can I word it more nicely?

Does she orgasm??? If so, I hope that means she likes it. The issue then is that she is scared of exploring sex (even vanilla sex) and has to break through those issues.

If she can't orgasm (or seldom) I imagine it is a tougher journey....

The two of you are unbearbly incompatible. If you don't end it now, you'll end it later with kids and a divorce involved. I can save you the suspense - things aren't going to get better. As a matter of fact, stop having sex with her because she is now in fear of losing you and she is very likely to get pregnant on purpose in order to trap you. Yes, women still do this - I've seen it. Just get out of this relationship, no matter what it takes.

You're young and you love her..... Every person/situation is different. Where MC does not work in many cases it works in others.

 

You need to start doing some things for yourself to show independence and encourage the same for her.

 

I said and stand by getting books for the both of you (Sexuality section in the bookstore).

 

I you love her you will exhaust these options and put a time limit on it (i.e. 6 months-1 year).

 

Make sure you do not set a wedding day or get her pregnant.

Let's say I get these books, and she refuses to read them. Is that pretty much my last option?

What's your opinion on MC in general? I know her, and if I bring it up again she'll say no...but if I say "well then this just isn't going to work then" then she is going to change her mind (which I'm assuming wouldn't be a good idea).

you feel guilty because initially you accepted her as she was, and now you dont. its as if you're breaking a promise of sorts. almost like you were lying or leading her on, as she thought you could take how she was.

 

you feel you may regret it because its natural to. after years of being with a person, the one major reason people have for staying is the fear they will regret it. its totally normal to feel this way.

if you left of course you would hurt inside and miss her, but that would fade eventually.

 

its the lesser of two evils. stay and be unhappy forever, or bite the big one, do what you feel is right and accept you will hurt for a while AND feel guilt over the break up.

the fact that you feel guilty just means you are a caring person.

 

but ultimately, you are the person who matters, and you have to do what is right for you.

if you go, although you will feel bad, she will get over it, dont doubt that and allow it to cloud your judgement.

Based on what you've read, is there any hope for this thing? I guess at the end of a 7 year relationship, I'd like to be able to tell myself everytime I hear some song that reminds me of her, watch a movie that reminds me of her, and the nights that I'll be alone in my apartment by myself that it was a good idea to end it.

BD,

Consider the sequence of events:

- You threatened to end the relationship over family intrusiveness/bad sex

- In response she promised to do anything needed to fix things

- Her actual response has been to tell her Dad to stop being a pain in the neck - no change in sexual behavior

- She has also resisted counseling - really resisted it

 

You only have two choices - accept her or leave her.

 

Books and therapy work ok only when BOTH people actively want to change. She is currently betting your future that you won't walk over the sex thing. So forget about all the nice little things young lovers whisper in each others ears. The raw truth of this situation is - she dislikes sex more then she loves you. You can't change that and it will be cruel to her and intensely frustrating for you to try.

 

So the simple question for you to ask yourself is: Can I be happy in a marriage with a very limited, very infrequent sexual relationship and a minimal level of socializing? If the answer is yes proceed. If no, then immediately proceed to career plan B - either moving to another company in your niche - if that means a relocation so be it.

 

I agree with your assessment of the father in law. He is going to take his best shot. So if it were me, I would quietly find another job and once I accepted the job offer would break off the relationship. You do not want to be trying to explain that your father in law got you fired for the rest of your life.

A couple of things:

1) What's your opinion on me buying the RC books and basically giving them to her. If she refuses to read them, then I immediately return them. Or is it not even worth it?

2) Do you think there is any hope for this?

3) Finding a new job could take 6+ months (or more). What if I can't find one in that time? Would you still stay with her? Or would you allow yourself to be fired and take unemployment...hoping in the next 12 months after you find a job before unemployment ends?

Does she orgasm??? If so, I hope that means she likes it. The issue then is that she is scared of exploring sex (even vanilla sex) and has to break through those issues.

 

If she can't orgasm (or seldom) I imagine it is a tougher journey....

She does NOT orgasm. She also doesn't let me perform oral, which doesn't help.

The two of you are unbearbly incompatible. If you don't end it now, you'll end it later with kids and a divorce involved. I can save you the suspense - things aren't going to get better. As a matter of fact, stop having sex with her because she is now in fear of losing you and she is very likely to get pregnant on purpose in order to trap you. Yes, women still do this - I've seen it. Just get out of this relationship, no matter what it takes.

As I've asked the others, do you think there is any hope? Is there anything that can be done to salvage this?

Also in general, sometimes I wonder if it's my relationship with her that bothers me, or just my entire situation in general. I do think a big part of it is that she is connected to every part of my life: My house (since we live together), my job (since I work with her father), and my free time.

The last thing I want to mention, but didn't really before because quite frankly if she ever checks LS she'll now know for sure that this is about her:

She had a tough childhood with her father. He is an alcoholic, no questions asked. I don't believe he was very physically a threat to her or her mother (or other family members), but he was definitely verbally abusive. I know he called them "sluts, whores, cocksuckers, *******s, etc.). He was also very mean about other things.

I'm not a psychologist, but I don't doubt the "dirty" names he called her led her to basically "not" be any of those things. I guess after all is said and done, I'd feel very low if I ended things over something that was not her fault in the first place.

However, in the end, I suppose everyone needs to look out for themslves. I guess after 7 years, I care about her so much that I don't want to see anything bad happen to her (or for her to be lonely). And on the flip side, I don't want to realize in 6 months that I simply wasn't patient enough.

The truth is, being with someone when you're miserable does not make things better - for you or the other person. People do not change. She is who she is and, believe it or not, there is someone out there who's perfect for her - but it's not you. And, there's someone out there who's perfect for you - but it's not her. What you see is what you get in this relationship. Why on earth would you think anything would change in 6 mos if it hasn't in 7 yrs? Because you think she's had a revelation now that you told her you thought it should end? It's not going to do anything but if it makes you feel better to stick around for 6 mos, then do it. But, again, I will tell you that when someone is emotionally off and feels threatened about being left, they will do things to entrap you - and I can almost guarantee you that she'll get pregnant because she's in fear. Do not put this past her. Just know that if you continue to stay with her, you're taking a risk. This is exactly what happened to someone I know. He was about to break up with a girl and lo and behold - it was a miracle! - she got pregnant. Now he's married to her and they have 3 kids. He's miserable.

Believe me when I tell you that you're not doing your gf any favors by staying in a relationship that doesn't work for you. It's not working for her, either, she just isn't brave enough to do anything about it. The two of you will continually struggle year after year about the same issues. Why do that to yourself, to her, and to any kids you would have? It's miserable. Just by not socializing in the way you like to, she has taken a great deal away from you already. She doesn't seem to care about this because she makes no effort to compromise. This is an extremely bad sign. It means that she's basically telling you in a very passive-agressive manner that, "it's my way or the highway." You're being asked to give up too much of yourself in this relationship and you will not be able to take the strain of it for years and years. Do you see how difficult it is to disentangle yourself now - and you're not even married. How hard do you think it will be years from now? It won't get any easier, and your lives won't get any less entangled.

I know it's hard to get past this hurdle of the 'break-up', and the tears and melodrama that she's no doubt going to dish out, and the job and house and all that crap. But it needs to be done. The best way to do that is to imagine your life 5 yrs from now without that person in it. What would it be like? What would it be like if you've met someone you truly click with, who loves to socialize the same as you, who has an adventurous and healthy attitude about sex? How would that feel?

Please, just get out and let the chips fall where they will. Believe in yourself and know that things will work out. And change your expectations about what you think you deserve in a woman. Because if you don't, you'll just get the same thing again in a different package.

BD,

I am not going to debate philosophy with you. She dislikes sex more then she loves you. Why that is - can be debated endlessly - just not by me.

Go to the experienceproject website. Go to the group on sexless marriages and read the forums and the stories. Then come back.

You keep asking an interesting question which is - can your wife change her behavior if you apply intense pressure - and anything you do now - pre wedding is by definition a lot of pressure. WHO CARES. The only thing that matters is how she will behave once you are locked in holy matrimony. And you already know the answer.

The fact is you have accepted her for this long because you are conflict avoidant. No guy who is comfortable with conflict would have gotten to where you are.

I wish you luck. You knew what to do before you posted. I think you were hoping we would post telling you that it could work. That way you could proceed down this path, avoid conflict, and somehow tell yourself that it is ok. But - sadly that is not what happened. So instead you are now trying - despite a mountain of feedback from highly experienced folks, to find some loophole to squeeze through - to avoid conflict.

You already should be looking for a job. Like right this second. It might take 6 months. Just get on it. Because you want to have some stuff lined up before she presses you for a date and it all gets ugly.

TDP is a very kind man. He is especially kind to women - he would have made a great knight in the middle ages. While I am also a romantic - I am a pragmatist. I dated women like your girl - no oral either way - no orgasms for them. Pretty and smart. Would have intercourse but would not talk about sex. Never wanted to marry them - no way.

If you proceed just be honest with yourself. You are doing it because you are avoiding conflict - continuing a 7 year pattern. Don't try to make it about being nice to her. It isn't about that. You are already thinking you will cheat on her because she is so bad in bed.

Let's say I get these books, and she refuses to read them. Is that pretty much my last option?

 

What's your opinion on MC in general? I know her, and if I bring it up again she'll say no...but if I say "well then this just isn't going to work then" then she is going to change her mind (which I'm assuming wouldn't be a good idea).

 

 

 

Based on what you've read, is there any hope for this thing? I guess at the end of a 7 year relationship, I'd like to be able to tell myself everytime I hear some song that reminds me of her, watch a movie that reminds me of her, and the nights that I'll be alone in my apartment by myself that it was a good idea to end it.

 

 

 

A couple of things:

 

1) What's your opinion on me buying the RC books and basically giving them to her. If she refuses to read them, then I immediately return them. Or is it not even worth it?

 

2) Do you think there is any hope for this?

 

3) Finding a new job could take 6+ months (or more). What if I can't find one in that time? Would you still stay with her? Or would you allow yourself to be fired and take unemployment...hoping in the next 12 months after you find a job before unemployment ends?

 

 

 

She does NOT orgasm. She also doesn't let me perform oral, which doesn't help.

 

 

 

As I've asked the others, do you think there is any hope? Is there anything that can be done to salvage this?

 

 

Also in general, sometimes I wonder if it's my relationship with her that bothers me, or just my entire situation in general. I do think a big part of it is that she is connected to every part of my life: My house (since we live together), my job (since I work with her father), and my free time.

 

The last thing I want to mention, but didn't really before because quite frankly if she ever checks LS she'll now know for sure that this is about her:

 

She had a tough childhood with her father. He is an alcoholic, no questions asked. I don't believe he was very physically a threat to her or her mother (or other family members), but he was definitely verbally abusive. I know he called them "sluts, whores, cocksuckers, *******s, etc.). He was also very mean about other things.

 

I'm not a psychologist, but I don't doubt the "dirty" names he called her led her to basically "not" be any of those things. I guess after all is said and done, I'd feel very low if I ended things over something that was not her fault in the first place.

 

However, in the end, I suppose everyone needs to look out for themslves. I guess after 7 years, I care about her so much that I don't want to see anything bad happen to her (or for her to be lonely). And on the flip side, I don't want to realize in 6 months that I simply wasn't patient enough.