Is he gaslighting, am I crazy, or option X?

I need some help making sense of this. I will try to be objective. Sorry it's long

A friend of my bf's is in town visiting. 2 months ago, when she bought her plane ticket, my bf sent me and some other people an email about getting dinner with her the first night she was in town. There was a date in the email, but literally not one other detail, and nothing concrete was planned. I never heard anything else about dinner, via email or otherwise. I will admit that I remembered this email all along, but never asked for a status update. I assumed that since it appeared I was invited, when actual plans were made, I would be informed.

A few weeks before the friend arrived, I discovered that my bf had plans to go on a day trip snowboarding with her and another friend the second day she was in town when I walked into our room and heard him on the phone, saying that he hadn't taken off work yet, but that it wouldn't be a problem. My point here is that he never told me he had these plans. The only time he ever directly mentioned this to me was the day before snowboarding he said he needed to get snowboarding clothes.

The morning of the dinner my bf and I were talking as we got ready for work, and he told me that he was going to XXX to run an errand after work, and had no other plans, so he would take care of the dogs. Since he said he would be home for the dogs, I made plans with a friend to go for a run after work and make dinner together.

As we're making dinner my bf calls me to ask about the dogs. I was surprised to learn that he was going out to dinner with his girl friend. The problem being that he tried to make it seem like that was his plan all along, and how could I not remember? He even forwarded me the email from 2 months ago that had no information in it except to say "Is anyone interested in getting dinner with XXX on XXXday?" He claimed that he had told me that very morning that he was going to dinner with her, and said I was crazy when I said "no, you said you were running the errand," claiming he never said that.

I'll keep the rest short: he insists that I was invited both to dinner, and to go snowboarding. I swear that the facts do not at all support his claim that I was invited, or even fully informed of any of these plans of his. He got angry at me, saying that I shouldn't be taking it out on him that I "forgot" these things.

I said that I felt excluded, and he responded with things like "I'm not being mean, but tough love. I'm not going to enable crazy. I'm not going to let you insult me and not going to pacify you when you come to me with just plain wrong information" "It's sad that you don't get how you act" "I'm done patronizing your ridiculousness" "It's getting difficult to patronize your random bipolar angry and negative energy" and "You're being crazy", etc. All of this, literally, because I said I felt excluded, and then, when he insisted that I was crazy because I simply "forgot" that I was invited to both things said that I don't see how he can say that I was invited to anything.

(There was also a third thing that hasn't happened yet where he did mention to me "I'm going out drinking with XXX and some other people Saturday night", and claims that this was an invitation.)

I know that I did not "forget" that I was "invited" to these things. He is making me really doubt my perception of these things though. And of course it goes without saying that I'm pretty angry about the things he said, which I perceive to be cruel and an overreaction.

http://lauriekendrick.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/the-sad-art-of-gaslighting/

Read this article.

It sounds to me like he is gaslighting you. He tells you one thing, then claims he said something else and you're the one who's crazy. It seems like he really didn't want you to come along and meet this girl. Does she even know he has a girlfriend? Is there any history between them?

Also it sounds like he got very defensive and overreacted when you said you felt excluded, which is typical behavior when someone is gaslighting you. I'm willing to bet that either something is going on with this girl, or he wants it to.

http://lauriekendrick.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/the-sad-art-of-gaslighting/

 

Read this article.

Interesting. Some of what she says rings true. The rest I'd have to reflect on.

It sounds to me like he is gaslighting you. He tells you one thing, then claims he said something else and you're the one who's crazy. It seems like he really didn't want you to come along and meet this girl. Does she even know he has a girlfriend? Is there any history between them?

 

Also it sounds like he got very defensive and overreacted when you said you felt excluded, which is typical behavior when someone is gaslighting you. I'm willing to bet that either something is going on with this girl, or he wants it to.

I have met her one or two times, and I think she's dated pretty much all his friends except him. She knows that we live together, and she came over to the house for a hot minute after snowboarding.

One reason I am questioning whether this is gaslighting or if he really doesn't think that he deliberately excluded me is because he is known for being flaky, and I am pretty organized and almost never forget anything. One time he told me that he had definite plans at a certain time/day/place, then the day of I asked why he was still home. He said because the other person never made an appointment. When I talked to the other person, they were surprised that he would say this, and showed me the text exchange where my bf was asked if he wanted to do something, and what was a good day/time, and my bf responded maybe, but he would have to let them know.

But, the fact that he is known for being forgetful, and I am not is really making all this worse for me. I am really upset about all this.

There is a much bigger issue here but I guess the gaslighting is the more acute one. Whatever the other more longstanding issues are, he is becoming increasingly annoyed at your obvious superior organizational skills and memory which is reflected in the gaslighting and, I am sure, is more of a defense mechanism.

So forget about the cough. Lets talk about the lung cancer that is causing the cough. Otherwise, are you driving him nuts? Be honest.

There is a much bigger issue here but I guess the gaslighting is the more acute one. Whatever the other more longstanding issues are, he is becoming increasingly annoyed at your obvious superior organizational skills and memory which is reflected in the gaslighting and, I am sure, is more of a defense mechanism.

 

So forget about the cough. Lets talk about the lung cancer that is causing the cough. Otherwise, are you driving him nuts? Be honest.

Could be. The only reason our schedules are an issue is because we have two dogs, and they are [supposed to be] our #1 priority. I think that he is resentful of the fact that he has this responsibility - that he brought upon himself - and can't just go out and do whatever he wants whenever he wants anymore. I am starting to become a real hardass about this, because more and more I am having to either not make plans or come home early because he does whatever he wants without considering the fact that we have 2 dogs that need to be fed, played with, exercised, etc.

Could be. The only reason our schedules are an issue is because we have two dogs, and they are [supposed to be] our #1 priority. I think that he is resentful of the fact that he has this responsibility - that he brought upon himself - and can't just go out and do whatever he wants whenever he wants anymore. I am starting to become a real hardass about this, because more and more I am having to either not make plans or come home early because he does whatever he wants without considering the fact that we have 2 dogs that need to be fed, played with, exercised, etc.

Okay, so you are being a hardass for the right reason and it is driving him crazy. What options do you guys have?

I have two dogs that have all of those needs as well and I like to have fun too. It used to bother me at times that I had to run home after a long day's work and turn down my friends pleas to join them for happy hour just so I could get to my boys some and give them the needed TLC.

Now, I have friends and dogwalkers to help me out a bit. Is this an option for you and your man? There has to be balance somewhere and you can only be a hardass for so long before things get really tense. Can you two come up with a schedule or are you just not into the dogs all that much?

I said that I felt excluded, and he responded with things like "I'm not being mean, but tough love. I'm not going to enable crazy. I'm not going to let you insult me and not going to pacify you when you come to me with just plain wrong information" "It's sad that you don't get how you act" "I'm done patronizing your ridiculousness" "It's getting difficult to patronize your random bipolar angry and negative energy" and "You're being crazy", etc. All of this, literally, because I said I felt excluded

I can't imagine treating someone like that because they told me they felt excluded, even if I thought I had informed them of my plans. I would think either they forgot and don't realize it, or I was misremembering and then chalk the whole thing up to a miscommunication. Going on about it, becoming defensive, getting angry and calling the person crazy just isn't the behavior of someone who is innocent.

The other thing about gaslighting that strikes me - is that it is questioning your reality. That I believe is what makes one (a) so confused and (b) furious at the same time.

"Their" reality trumps your reality is what they are saying.

Friends can do it too. A friend was recently rude to me and when I called her on it, instead of apologising properly, she said you're "too sensitive" (like your b/f : you're bi-polar, crazy, etc).

Ideally, one wants to surround oneself with people who respect one's own reality, rather than trample on it or smash it. Not always possible, but you have to assert it with other people. Wouldn't you say?

Okay, so you are being a hardass for the right reason and it is driving him crazy. What options do you guys have?

 

I have two dogs that have all of those needs as well and I like to have fun too. It used to bother me at times that I had to run home after a long day's work and turn down my friends pleas to join them for happy hour just so I could get to my boys some and give them the needed TLC.

 

Now, I have friends and dogwalkers to help me out a bit. Is this an option for you and your man? There has to be balance somewhere and you can only be a hardass for so long before things get really tense. Can you two come up with a schedule or are you just not into the dogs all that much?

We haven't had any problems with this until lately - we had things worked out pretty well, and in a way that I thought was fair to both of us and the dogs.

But suddenly it's becoming a problem (maybe because it's spring and getting nicer out so everyone feels like getting out more???). A couple examples: I have regular plans for one day a month. My bf is aware of these plans, and I always remind him as they are approaching. Last month was the same, and I verified that he would be able to take care of the dogs, leading up to and the day of. When I get to my event I texted him about something and he's like "no, I'm getting dinner with XXX tonight". I was never told of these plans, but he INSISTS that he told me several times. I know for a fact that he didn't, because if he had I would have said, "What about the dogs?" Instead, I needed to leave early.

The dinner with the girl that was in town: I NEVER would have made plans if I had known that he was going out to dinner, because I would have stayed home or postponed my plans to take care of the dogs.

And things like this keep happening lately! I KNOW that he didn't tell me, because a little bell would've gone off saying, OK, what are we going to do about the dogs? The reason we discuss our plans with each other (such as the morning of the dinner) is to make sure that the dogs will be taken care of.

When I tried to talk to him about this, he got mad, and went off about how insulting it was that I would assume he doesn't care about the dogs.

It's frustrating, because he undermines my ability to rely on him to follow whatever plan we have to make sure the dogs are cared for.

Unfortunately we don't have any friends who are close enough that it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience for them to come do us a favor once in awhile.

Alma Mobley and jane100, your posts make a lot of sense to me.

And things like this keep happening lately! I KNOW that he didn't tell me, because a little bell would've gone off saying, OK, what are we going to do about the dogs? The reason we discuss our plans with each other (such as the morning of the dinner) is to make sure that the dogs will be taken care of.

 

When I tried to talk to him about this, he got mad, and went off about how insulting it was that I would assume he doesn't care about the dogs.

 

It's frustrating, because he undermines my ability to rely on him to follow whatever plan we have to make sure the dogs are cared for.

Well, you are going to have to take away this guy's power from him that he is wielding in the form of gaslighting. It is power because it is making you very frustrated now.

Generally, it is always a good idea to avoid arguments in relationships that deal with memory and who remembers what. It is a slippery slope that culminates into serious arguments where folks lash out when their backs are against the wall. Your boyfriend's back is against the wall so he gaslights in retaliation.

When it first comes to a point where the argument is about to proceed into who remembers what or gaslighting just say "look, people remember things differently. I don't want to stoop to bashing each others' ability to recall events." Then move on to solving the problem.

You may want to suggest designing a calendar which would be visible to you both. On this calendar, important dates are marked and who is supposed to take care of the dogs on certain days are penciled in. This way, he can't slip out of his turns so easily. I would be vigilante about penciling in the calendar if this is what you two can agree upon.

If things become an issue afterward, his availability to adequately care for the dogs will need to be addressed. Dogs are a lot like kids. You have to be there for them to thrive.

If you really know that you didn't forget 2 invitations, I'm sorry to say but yes I do strongly believe he is gaslighting you. If it were a simple defense mechanism he wouldn't have had to punch hard to say that you are crazy. He's trying to throw you off guard so he can get away with something. I don't know what, but his reaction is pretty severe and in my opinion abnormal.

All I know is that I have dated a gaslighter, and it will make you crazy. I would not recommend staying with one. It will erode your confidence away and it's extremely unhealthy, whatever his motivation.

If you really know that you didn't forget 2 invitations, I'm sorry to say but yes I do strongly believe he is gaslighting you. If it were a simple defense mechanism he wouldn't have had to punch hard to say that you are crazy. He's trying to throw you off guard so he can get away with something. I don't know what, but his reaction is pretty severe and in my opinion abnormal.

 

Do you have any reason to suspect there's something he has to hide with this girl? I didn't read every post but i didn't get that impression. So it doesn't make sense to me why he would gaslight.

 

All I know is that I have dated a gaslighter, and it will make you crazy. I would not recommend staying with one. It will erode your confidence away and it's extremely unhealthy, whatever his motivation.

There is definitely something underlying all of this. Is it the dogs? We will see by taking away the common denominator in which he uses gaslighting and see what happens afterward. People who often uses this tactic feel inferior to the person that they use it on for some reason or another. I suspect that the OP is highly functional and her boyfriend is not so much.

Well, you are going to have to take away this guy's power from him that he is wielding in the form of gaslighting. It is power because it is making you very frustrated now.

 

Generally, it is always a good idea to avoid arguments in relationships that deal with memory and who remembers what. It is a slippery slope that culminates into serious arguments where folks lash out when their backs are against the wall. Your boyfriend's back is against the wall so he gaslights in retaliation.

 

When it first comes to a point where the argument is about to proceed into who remembers what or gaslighting just say "look, people remember things differently. I don't want to stoop to bashing each others' ability to recall events." Then move on to solving the problem.

 

You may want to suggest designing a calendar which would be visible to you both. On this calendar, important dates are marked and who is supposed to take care of the dogs on certain days are penciled in. This way, he can't slip out of his turns so easily. I would be vigilante about penciling in the calendar if this is what you two can agree upon.

 

If things become an issue afterward, his availability to adequately care for the dogs will need to be addressed. Dogs are a lot like kids. You have to be there for them to thrive.

Ha, I have been getting caught in the wanting to be right trap lately! I also have been feeling resentful lately, that he has so many plans that don't include me, thus leading me to be the one responsible for the dogs, because I am home with them all day long, several days a week. They are like little kids who need to be entertained, chased around the house, etc. They never sleep (not during the day, and not at night!), which I'm hoping is because one is still a puppy. And instead of either getting out of the house at night myself, or at least having him come home after work to give me a little relief, I'm also the caretaker every night of the week.

A calendar is a really good idea, and I think he'd up for trying that.

Sounds to me like you need to start playing his game so he can see what its like.

You go out and leave him with the dogs a few times. If they crap on the fllor, he gets to clean it up... and you gaslight him. Give him a taste of his own medicine. He obviously wants more freedom and he's taking it whether you like it or not.

I dont know why you would deliberately tie yourselves down with TWO dogs when you have each other, but thats another matter entirely.

Ha, I have been getting caught in the wanting to be right trap lately!

Yes, one of the main inducers of gaslighting. It doesn't justify its use though. He knows you are right on many accounts and he is using the gaslighting as a desperate defense. It is a big hit below the belt though and it takes a special person to resort to this defense.

I suspect that now that this girl is leaving it will be less of an issue.

I suspect that now that this girl is leaving it will be less of an issue.

You think so, huh? You think all of this has become a big issue because a girl came into town?

Get that calendar setup so you can start working your way to the root of the issue. Keep self-assessment in mind. If it doesn't work out in the end, just know that my dogs are well taken care of and that I have a well-functioning pelvis.

People who often uses this tactic feel inferior to the person that they use it on for some reason or another. I suspect that the OP is highly functional and her boyfriend is not so much.

I never thought about it that way, but there may be some validity to it. In my case, he was cheating so he wanted to be able to continue getting away with it. But honestly, yes he was insecure with me because he knew I had good values and he did not. Despite his behavior, that was actually one of the things he liked most about me. Regardless, it's crazy stuff and I would run at the first sight of it myself.

You think so, huh? You think all of this has become a big issue because a girl came into town?

I think that if he's gotten away with this once, he'll do it again. I think you don't want to admit that this is a problem so you're willing to write it off as a one time thing. However, I think you may just be seeing the beginning. If it worked once, a manipulative person will do it again.

I never thought about it that way, but there may be some validity to it. In my case, he was cheating so he wanted to be able to continue getting away with it. But honestly, yes he was insecure with me because he knew I had good values and he did not. Despite his behavior, that was actually one of the things he liked most about me. Regardless, it's crazy stuff and I would run at the first sight of it myself.

I agree, Daphne. As I said earlier, it takes a "special person" to resort to these tactics. I suspect that Kinsey's man is using it for similar reasons as your ex. He feels that he doesn't quite measure up to her for some reason or another.

Whenever possible, I try to avoid advising someone to leave their relationship unless it an obviously damaging one. I only do this because, as time goes on, I see it is harder for folks to stay together in this world. If you are of the long term relationship type, it is good to learn how to stay together when you can.

Do I think she should stay in this relationship with this form of mental abuse? I won't say. I won't say because she has not come completely forward with her vices. I am not sure exactly what is the chicken or the egg so I will leave it at that.

An honest mix up doesn't cause the kind of reaction that your boyfriend displayed.

There's no indication that your boyfriend ever notified you about going out to dinner at that specific time (especially in light of the fact that he had the foresight to mention that he would be able to take care of the dogs that evening). No mention of going out to eat the day he did so? I call BS. Even if it were spur of the moment plans, he could have called you from the the restaurant to invite you to come hang out with them, but he didn't.

I'd defintely have a discussion about this, and decide if his behavior crosses your boundaries or not. His friend should be a friend of the relationship, and should be socializing with both of you, so I'd question why your boyfriend hasn't provided an opportunity for you to get acquainted with her.

I agree, Daphne. As I said earlier, it takes a "special person" to resort to these tactics. I suspect that Kinsey's man is using it for similar reasons as your ex. He feels that he doesn't quite measure up to her for some reason or another.

 

Whenever possible, I try to avoid advising someone to leave their relationship unless it an obviously damaging one. I only do this because, as time goes on, I see it is harder for folks to stay together in this world. If you are of the long term relationship type, it is good to learn how to stay together when you can.

 

Do I think she should stay in this relationship with this form of mental abuse? I won't say. I won't say because she has not come completely forward with her vices. I am not sure exactly what is the chicken or the egg so I will leave it at that.

I like your thoughtful and balanced approach to advice. I understand it. There are a lot of trigger happy people in relationships, myself included.

I will say, however, that I do not regret pulling the trigger on abusive relationships. I'm a much happier, and more whole human being alone than with someone who displays abusive behavior. I lose myself and my integrity and I become a shell of myself. I'd much rather be alone.

I will say, however, that I do not regret pulling the trigger on abusive relationships. I'm a much happier, and more whole human being alone than with someone who displays abusive behavior. I lose myself and my integrity and I become a shell of myself. I'd much rather be alone.

No one can argue against this.

You think so, huh? You think all of this has become a big issue because a girl came into town?

 

Get that calendar setup so you can start working your way to the root of the issue. Keep self-assessment in mind. If it doesn't work out in the end, just know that my dogs are well taken care of and that I have a well-functioning pelvis.

I never thought about it that way, but there may be some validity to it. In my case, he was cheating so he wanted to be able to continue getting away with it. But honestly, yes he was insecure with me because he knew I had good values and he did not. Despite his behavior, that was actually one of the things he liked most about me. Regardless, it's crazy stuff and I would run at the first sight of it myself.

 

 

 

I think that if he's gotten away with this once, he'll do it again. I think you don't want to admit that this is a problem so you're willing to write it off as a one time thing. However, I think you may just be seeing the beginning. If it worked once, a manipulative person will do it again.

It's hard to know if I should be waiting for the other shoe to drop or not. Our relationship isn't perfect, but I can't think of another time that I was aware of this kind of bs going on, and we've been dating for awhile. I really just don't know what to make of this situation.

I agree, Daphne. As I said earlier, it takes a "special person" to resort to these tactics. I suspect that Kinsey's man is using it for similar reasons as your ex. He feels that he doesn't quite measure up to her for some reason or another.

 

Whenever possible, I try to avoid advising someone to leave their relationship unless it an obviously damaging one. I only do this because, as time goes on, I see it is harder for folks to stay together in this world. If you are of the long term relationship type, it is good to learn how to stay together when you can.

 

Do I think she should stay in this relationship with this form of mental abuse? I won't say. I won't say because she has not come completely forward with her vices. I am not sure exactly what is the chicken or the egg so I will leave it at that.

I have plenty of them, but I'm not entirely sure myself exactly how any of them played into this.

An honest mix up doesn't cause the kind of reaction that your boyfriend displayed.

 

There's no indication that your boyfriend ever notified you about going out to dinner at that specific time (especially in light of the fact that he had the foresight to mention that he would be able to take care of the dogs that evening). No mention of going out to eat the day he did so? I call BS. Even if it were spur of the moment plans, he could have called you from the the restaurant to invite you to come hang out with them, but he didn't.

 

I'd defintely have a discussion about this, and decide if his behavior crosses your boundaries or not. His friend should be a friend of the relationship, and should be socializing with both of you, so I'd question why your boyfriend hasn't provided an opportunity for you to get acquainted with her.

I have met her once, possibly twice, and she's not anyone that I'm eager to spend time with. She's an attention-seeking drama queen, and for some reason, all the men in her life, such as my bf, who "hate" drama don't seem to get it. They all think she's the coolest girl they've ever met. She just makes bad, messy life decisions though, like in the people she chooses to date, stealing $$ from her company, etc.

Just two small examples from her recent trip to our town:

When they went snowboarding she took a lesson, and was making a huge deal about an obviously cruel girl who hated her for no reason offered to give her the lesson just to cock-block her from all the hot guys who could've given her a lesson instead. Then, supposedly, the mean ski instructor made her do ridiculous things like crawl around in the snow just to make her look dumb and embarrass her, and the instructor was terribly rude and condescending during the entire lesson. I suspect that none of this is true, and I further suspect that if I had made similar accusations to my bf about said ski instructor he would've told me I was ridiculous, too sensitive, etc., and he wouldn't have listened to me.

One night when she was here she went out with a bunch of her girl friends from college. She had the option of going home when everyone else did, or going to another bar, but instead she went with 2 other girls to some strange guy's house, where all his strange friends were doing drugs. She knew the guy was strange, because she had met him, and she knew what was going on at his house. But she chose to go anyways. Then, she chose to snort coke, and who knows what else. The next night she's hanging out with my bf and some other guys, and she bitches and moans about how she really wasn't a fan of everything that happened the night before and complains about all her friends.

Most of the girls who know her don't like her and aren't thrilled that all their husbands and bfs are so blinded to how she really is, and disgusted that they think she's so freaking fantastic. If any of us acted/talked the way she did they wouldn't put up with it.