Is the ball back in my court or not?

Hi all, I am female and 44....I am new here so I don't know what all the abbreviations are in this forum so probably won't be using a lot of them...but I am looking for advice. I am pretty strong...so you don't have to be too gentle with me Please be straightforward.

Okay...so quick background....My husband is 41 and we have been together 16 years. We have two teen daughters together, and another older daughter from a previous marriage which he raised with me since she was 4, and her son (a grandson)..In early 2009....my husband was fired from a 300K a year job where he was considered to be one of the "top dogs"...we didn't live extravagant but we had nice things, nice cars, and didn't worry about money. During the good money years, he bought me a hair salon that I was working in. Owner wanted out, I was asked to purchase it and my husband bought it for me. 3 years later, it's a pretty great investment for me. I have been doing hair 25 years and I know how to treat people and run this type of business.

When he was fired, it opened up his dreams of starting his own business doing the same type of work he did prior. He figuredt that it would be "their" competition and started putting it together. He asked several friends to invest in him and the business and even borrowed money from close family members. He also took out several loans and lines of credit. This is a man who has an A+ credit rating and pays back every loan he has ever taken out and doesn't like to owe anyone money....so he gave it a couple of years and it just wasn't working out. People who worked for him were not doing what they were supposed to do, he wasn't getting paid from jobs he did because in construction you always wait...at least 30 days if not more. After struggling to keep it afloat...he knew it wasn't going to hang on and he let it go. He felt like a failure. He had hit rock bottom and owed all those people and banks money back..to the tune of close to a million and had no way to re-pay them. He couldn't find work because of the job market crisis and has been really dealing with a lot although he wouldn't really talk to me about it, I would just over hear it in conversations he had with his buddies. This was probably March 2009.

So here I am with a great business, making good money...not getting rich...but doing good....and I was happy and I thought my relationship was happy...we have had our ups and downs over things in the past. I never thought it was major stuff. I would sometimes give him a hard time about paying more attention to his women friends at work or the old highschool friend who was going through a divorce and needed someone to text and talk to all day. Well maybe more than a hard time I gave him. I told him it wasn't right and that he was disrespecting me by doing that. He kept it up and thought I was being stupid about it.

In June of 2009, he went on a summer trip with one of my girls...He went back to his hometown where he usually goes every summer because it's a lot cooler than where we live. I used to go to, until I acquired the business and I also had gotten to the point where I was tired of visiting and staying with his family all the time..and wanted to do something different...so I stopped going.

During one of those nights of his summer trip...he met a much older woman in a bar/restaurant while he was out with his friend. She is 21 years older than he. They had casual conversation and they somehow got onto the politics talk and it just took off. Intellectually she could keep up with him and had her own viewpoints that he agreed with. After talking to her for quite awhile that evening, she apparently needed a ride back to where she was staying. I am just repeating what I have heard about the first meeting so it may be kind of sketchy, but from what he told me...they exchanged phone numbers that night. Within a couple of days she started texting him and he back to her....and their little texting affair started. Also I found out that they had a one night stand somewhere in the time that he was staying in his hometown.

Because of the prior texting thing with his old highschool friend whom he says was pure platonic texting, I was already checking emails and cell phone records. It was just coincidence I guess that I saw this new number pop up and saw that it was a different area code than where we live and also different from where he was at at the time....so I called the number. I heard a womans voice mail. So the wheels started turning in my head..something is up. Plus a couple of the emails were a little friendly. Saying "I'd love to see you again", "I can't wait to hear from you etc" (that was her saying those things). Ironically it turns out that this woman was so filthy rich, she has a home where we live...how special...and a home in a couple other states including the hometown where he went to vacation.

So to make this long story a little shorter...I finally did ask him about who this person was. I had to confess my hacking into emails and cell records but he insisted they were just friends. The just friends talk went on for months, until I knew it wasn't just friends, and I knew he was lying to me. I was able to get back into emails and cell records and saw it before my very eyes. At that point, I didn't tell him how I knew...I manipulated the truth out of him. It would take me awhile to do it, but he would confess some things. I was like a prosecuting attorney, I didn't back down until I got it out of him. He did finally confess that he had slept with her a couple of times... He tried to explain to me...and this is where I got lost on what this was really about....he explained that he feels like a failure....because of the job loss...the business loss...that he needs to financially get back on his feet....that this other woman is just someone to talk to, she's like one of the guys, we talk sports, politics, and he told me flat out...he gets bored sitting at home all day while I'm at my great job and he has no one to talk to so he calls and texts her and that mistakenly he had slept with her. At first I was okay with it, but I knew he was bouncing over to her house when I was at work and they would end up in bed.

I remember him blowing her off for holidays and stuff and I could imagine her sitting at her home as the OW and wishing that she had him. She was getting bits and pieces of him, but she hung in there....Well I was not okay with the lying. He was still telling me "just friends" but I could see the pattern of cell calls and texts and emails that I couldn't just ignore. Everything I have read says that there must be "no contact" with affair partner if you are done with them. Not friends, not anything...we fought over that all the time. The more I pushed about his not talking to her, I think the more it pushed him to want to see her. After I gave him an ultimatum...I told him I was leaving him...because giving the ultimatum didn't work...it just left me feeling confused and him insisting on their friendship. When I tried to leave, he grabbed his suitcase and started packing and said "no I will leave" and he did. He went to stay with a friend of his.

During the time he was gone from our home....their relationship picked up a bit more. She felt like now she could text him and call him instead of waiting for him to always call her...she was getting what she wanted. However....he was miserable....he would call me or text me all the time...not that he wanted to really talk about the situation or her, but he would tell me he misses me, misses the house, the kids, the dogs, everything. So I felt sorry for him and asked him to come back, and so he did...for just a little while. Once he came back here, he had nothing to do with me...he would ignore me in bed, he would face the wall, we had nothing to talk about..I was trying to be more loving, more attentive, wanting to talk it out, telling him I would always love him...but he would still face the wall every night. He wouldn't even tell me goodnight. It was like he resented me at this point. 45 days later, I came home from work to find out he had left again and this time he went to go stay with the OW at her home. I felt numb...didn't freak out too much, just went absolutely numb. He only stayed with her 2 nights before he went to go stay with a guy friend...we had a couple of talks during that time and he told me that he just felt uncomfortable being with her all the time like that....and that he didn't want to "live" with her. But I knew they were still seeing each other and then I started to see pictures pop up of them together on facebook. I got angry and I told myself I was done....I started working on myself...going to the gym, going out with friends, talking to other men etc.

Well within a few days of his knowing I was going out and talking to other guys, he started texting me and calling me all the time. Wanted to know if I was dating anyone, kissed anyone etc. All of a sudden he asked if he could date me...take me out....and I stupidly said okay and ended up sleeping with him again after not being together in months. It actually turned out to be a great weekend for us, the kids enjoyed having him here with us and we seemed like a happy family again. But after he left, I found out he was back seeing her again....he kept flip flopping between us, so I told him I wasn't going to ride this rollercoaster and that I was done. He cried, and cried...he was so upset that he called one of my girls in the middle of the night to talk to her cause he couldn't sleep. I asked him to give me at least 3 months and to leave me alone....He also told me that he would take that 3 months to figure out what he wanted...that was July 6th that we agreed to that. On July 11, I saw a picture of the two of them together that upset me really bad. In the picture, he was holding her...in such an endearing manner...Like a bear hug from behind her...and he had this HUGE smile on his face...I was in tears...I had NEVER seen a smile on his face like that with me...in 16years..I haven't...I talked to my older daughter about it and we both decied that it was fake....that man in that picture, is now how he is....that smile even though it made him look really happy....just didn't look like the person we know. As if he put it on his face for the camera. As far as the hug and holding, I don't know.

So after seeing the picture, I drunk dialed him. I had been out with friends and got a little tipsy and couldn't wait to drill him about how "in love" he looks with her..even though he insisted he wasn't in love. He said "it's just a picture"...and then he cried again when I said I couldn't take it anymore that this is killing me, it's killing the kids, he looks happy....let's just forget the 3 mos of trying to figure out what's what and be done.

I got a letter this morning from him via email, that said he is (and I quote) in "emotional hell". He said that the reason he looks so happy in the pictures is because he is escaping reality of his real life and each time he escapes to that reality, it puts him deeper into emotional hell. He said he is obsessed with what I am doing, and worries about me all the time. He says he loves me and he misses his old life. He talks so much about where he is at financially and how he is JEALOUS of me!!! Yes he said that, several times, he said he is jealous of how successful I am, jealous of how much I have to offer...and even said that he was embarrassed by the loss of the job, embarrassed by the hurt and pain he has caused, embarrassed about owing so many people money. Yet he is still with her....and now I see more pictures of them together, this time he is kissing her...this is a man who HATES PDA!! (public displays of affection) yet here he is in a bar, kissing her and mugging for the camera. I don't get it!! Well apparently the pictures were taken BEFORE he wrote the email to me...I got the email this morning at 9 am....oh and in the letter he also said he had been crying all morning prior to writing the email.

So he took it upon himself to write out this letter..it was very long and it also said that he loves me very much and that he could write out 2 pages of how he feels about me...but would save it to his heart or something like that. He told me that I didn't need to respond and that was that.

Okay so now my question....Am I being played here???

Does he really love me, want me or does he want to have his cake and eat it too??

Or is this a man who is having a midlife crisis, emotional breakdown??

Is he really into the OW, or using her to make him feel better about himself?

DO I want him back, yes...I want my family back together.

What if anything, should I do now??? I want to make all the right moves.

Suggestions welcome,,,,I am so emotionally screwed up too. I don't want to make any ultimatums cause I know they don't work with him...there has to be something I can do that will make him make this decision on his own to stop seeing her, to come back home and let us be a family and work on his midlife crisis.

There are many affair busting sites. They suggest a plan B when the DH is with another woman. Plan A includes exposing to everyone. This includes family, friends and OW family and friends. Then giving the Wandering spouse a letter of conditions of what he can do to get back with you. Setting the bar high. number 1 is complete transparency to all forms of communications, cell, computer etc. Then a letter of no contact to the other woman. Perhaps check out marriagebuilders.

I think I tried Plan A a long time ago and it backfired in my face. It only made him angrier with me. He felt like it should be noones business but ours. I told my friends, my family, his family, his kids, my oldest daughter, her fiance, his family....The only people I did not tell was the OW's family. Only because I felt like he would just get mad at me and it would make me look like a trouble maker to all her family. She could just say something like, "Ya it's his ex and she's just jealous and trying to win him back"...but I tell you...he says some really negative things about her and her family that I am DYING to tell her, but don't for fear it will only push them closer together.

thanks for the advice on affair busting...I didn't even think to google that. He hasn't said the words, "I want you back" yet...they may not ever come...but he sure does put on a good act if that isn't what he is aiming toward.

The pictures of the two of them make me barf though....she is 62 and he is 41.

Of course he was mad. He was exposed. That is the point, affairs live in secrecy. Personally I would check out marriagebuilders. Do a dark plan B.

Give him a letter saying you want to save the marriage and give him a list of steps for that to happen. Then I would tell only contact through a intermedairy. Then NO Contact, work on your recovery.

Number one step no contact letter with the other woman given to you and mailed by you.

Number two total transparency, he gets a new phone number and you get access.

This is war if you want your marriage. Check out how to survive an affair.

Forget the suggestions about marriagebuilders, and R.

You know darn well, what needs to happen----that is plain out and out DIVORCE

This guy is just doing what he wants----and you are enabling it!!!!! He has no accountability, and he will just continue to do as he pleases.

Time for you to stop all this BS---divorce him, and ignore him----he is like a bad dream, make him go away!!!!!!!!HE IS A LOSER---stop defending, helping, enabling, and supporting him.

He will end up taking you into the gutter, if you don't stand up for yourself---He is toxic----nothing more needs to be said----rest is up to you, and whether you have the guts to stand up for yourself.

JNJ,

Thank you...this is what I mean when I said be straightforward. You nailed it and are soooooo right about leaving him for good. I can say that I am in that frame of mind now...I think seeing the pictures of them together on facebook, kissing each other and him all over her is like some sort of mental closure for me. He has hit the final nail on the head.

It does hurt a lot though...I know it's gonna hurt for a long time. I need to just stick to my guns and not let him back into my heart like I did a few weeks ago with his texting and boo-hooing to me.

I didn't reveal this in my first post, but here it goes....so you know we have been together 16 years...well he cheated on me the first 3 years with a different woman too. I had met him one night out...and we ended up going to dinner on a date about a week after that. I remember after the date, I asked him if he was seeing anyone else and he told me he wasn't...so we started seeing a lot of each other and it turned into more serious. Within 2 months of that, I found out about the "girlfriend" in another state. He flip flopped between the two of us for about 3 years and I would always believe him when he would say..."I'm done with her", "She's psycho and won't leave me alone", "She just wanted one more night with me and then she said she would go away so I gave in"...all kinds of excuses. He cheated on me with her the whole time I was pregnant with our daughter and clear up until I was pregnant with the 2nd daughter...so this leopard never changed his spots....he's just older now.

Sometimes I think I am sooooo stupid for hanging around for 16 years and letting my life go to waste...not knowing what he was ever really up to. I guess it's time now to start all over...but this time I'm stronger. But for some reason I just want him to feel the pain he has caused in me, and I don't think he ever will...Is it wrong to wish the hurt on him like he hurt me?

Hey JLB---good for you---now stick to your guns-----1st kick your H. out of the house, immediately go to the bank, and put all finances in an acct. with your name only on the acct.-This protects you financially.--Cut off his credit cards--Cahange your CC accts so he can't cancel them on you.--File your Divorce papers

You wanna hurt your scumbag H. take everything you can from him in the Divorce settlement----Do not allow him to see your kids---he is an unfit father (not really but he seems to stupid to know the differance)

Just let him know you are deadly serious, and he will not be allowed back into your life----Go NC with him, and stay strong.

Oh man, JLB, I couldn't read your entire post and tried to skim through it because it was just too long and my eyes began to cross. But I'm hoping I got the jist of what you were trying to convey.

My very first thought was how passive you seemed to be with regard to your husband and his "relationship" with the OW when he was still living at home. A couple of times, you'd said, "and that was ok..." or, "I wasn't really bothered by that..." when you were referring to knowing he was with her or some other element of their relationship. The impression I clearly got was that you were more upset that he wouldn't ADMIT to his affair than you were by the fact that he was HAVING an affair.

If you're not going to set any boundaries, why would he?

Is he "playing" you? Only he knows the answer to that. But his ACTIONS mean far more than his WORDS. Always remember that.

In truth, I can almost guarantee that if you offered him BOTH of you - he could have you and continue seeing the OW - he'd take that in a New York minute. One minute he's crying all over you that he wants you back, and the next minute he's grinning like an asshat in yet another Kodak moment with his "girlfriend."

And since you haven't laid out any clear boundaries (yeah, yeah, yeah..you gave him 3 months to continue living with his girlfriend while he 'makes up his mind' as to whether he wants to come home - how's that working for ya?) he's going to continue happily riding BOTH sides of the fence.

Time to get tough, JB.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I didn't reveal this in my first post, but here it goes....so you know we have been together 16 years...well he cheated on me the first 3 years with a different woman too. I had met him one night out...and we ended up going to dinner on a date about a week after that. I remember after the date, I asked him if he was seeing anyone else and he told me he wasn't...so we started seeing a lot of each other and it turned into more serious. Within 2 months of that, I found out about the "girlfriend" in another state. He flip flopped between the two of us for about 3 years and I would always believe him when he would say..."I'm done with her", "She's psycho and won't leave me alone", "She just wanted one more night with me and then she said she would go away so I gave in"...all kinds of excuses. He cheated on me with her the whole time I was pregnant with our daughter and clear up until I was pregnant with the 2nd daughter...so this leopard never changed his spots....he's just older now.

Oh jeez...no WONDER he had no problem walking all over you AGAIN. Because you've allowed it in the past, over and over and over and over and over and over.

JLB, exactly when WAS it that you lost your self respect?

Oh jeez...no WONDER he had no problem walking all over you AGAIN. Because you've allowed it in the past, over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

JLB, exactly when WAS it that you lost your self respect?

I agree that I have lost my self respect...it's been gone for a very long time. I can't really say why though. I have people and men tell me how beautiful I am all the time. I'm 112 lbs. slim, 5'3, blonde, blue eyes, great teeth and smile..I used to be told that I looked like Maureen McCormick (Marsha from Brady Bunch) all the time. But I think I look like Fiona from Shrek....

For some reason I want this man. Maybe it's always been a challenge to see if I could hold onto him. There is something about him that makes him such a challenge to women. If there wasn't, there wouldn't be a 62 year old Cougar with all the money in the world, who wants a man who is dirt poor right now. Why else would she want him? It's a game to her, she knows she can't get him the way she wants him either.

I am going to start a new thread, but wanted to update here first. H chose OW tonight over me. Long story, but look for He Chose OW for an update on this situation. I thought it was kind of daring on my part, because I started the ball rolling this evening and I just let it keep on rolling until I got my answer. And I did. I am hurt..yes...but it's a decision on his part..so I will live with it.

Your husband's self descriptions of himself appear to be accurate and right-on.. He Knows where he is and where he is coming from..

He feels like a failure because of the business and finances, he has time on his hands, and is using her as an escape .. And the fact that she has money - makes her all the more an escape and ingratiating..

When he discribes the relationship as 'friends' he is probably telling the truth - or at least for the way the R has been starting out .. How can a 41 yr old man be attracted to a 62 yr old woman ... excepting for the money, escape and attention factor at this time...

He has been a cheater from his first marriage on ..

Though I'm sure he loves you as his wife, and is attracted to you - the fact that you are successful is ingratiating to him as well - thus his Spiritual battle..

Please JLB - NO revenge dating while married...

He is of course, a cake eater - and you have the choice to let him know what it will take to remain in the marriage - or leave it ..

I don't recommend any continued constant nagging (if that is what is going down) .. But to let him know what he must do..

Maybe he should have put all of this energy in his business, I don't know..

You probably know, that should you divorce, you may have to buy him out of your share of realestate and your business or pay him support ... Sounds Dismal ..

I wish you the best ..

Your husband's self descriptions of himself appear to be accurate and right-on.. He Knows where he is and where he is coming from..

 

He feels like a failure because of the business and finances, he has time on his hands, and is using her as an escape .. And the fact that she has money - makes her all the more an escape and ingratiating..

 

When he discribes the relationship as 'friends' he is probably telling the truth - or at least for the way the R has been starting out .. How can a 41 yr old man be attracted to a 62 yr old woman ... excepting for the money, escape and attention factor at this time...

 

He has been a cheater from his first marriage on ..

 

Though I'm sure he loves you as his wife, and is attracted to you - the fact that you are successful is ingratiating to him as well - thus his Spiritual battle..

 

Please JLB - NO revenge dating while married...

 

He is of course, a cake eater - and you have the choice to let him know what it will take to remain in the marriage - or leave it ..

 

I don't recommend any continued constant nagging (if that is what is going down) .. But to let him know what he must do..

 

Maybe he should have put all of this energy in his business, I don't know..

 

You probably know, that should you divorce, you may have to buy him out of your share of realestate and your business or pay him support ... Sounds Dismal ..

 

I wish you the best ..

Thank you Califnan...you've nailed it pretty good.