Living in Sin

I am an OW. My situation is very different from most of the ones posted on this board. I am in fact living with a MM, we've been living together for almost a year. How did this come to be? The W lives in another state, and they considered themselves to be seperated when he and I met. After dating for a few months he told me that he was going to divorce her, and unlike most married men he actually followed through on his promises. My MM found an attorney, had the paperwork drawn, and right now we're awaiting the final court date that will end his marriage.

Recently, I've started to feel sorry for her. I feel bad that my happiness had to come at her expense, but I don't think it was my fault. Their relationship was broken before I ever came along. He said he never loved her, and that the only reason he married her was because he wanted to know that she and her daughter were taken care of. They're dirt poor without his financial support. He makes a nice salary, over 100K. She was the one who proposed to him (3 times before he ever accepted), he refused her twice and gave in because he figured that he might as well make sure she was taken care of. After they were married, he used the fact that he never really loved her as an excuse to cheat on her more times than I'd care to mention. Hence, the reason they were legally seperated and hadn't been together for over a year when I walked in. As a matter of fact one of his ex girlfriends (on-again off agaian while he was married for 2 years), from before me, is currently harrassing the poor W because she thinks he ended it with her to reconcile with his wife. She's calling the W, leaving messages on her voicemail, and emailing her, because she has no idea that he dumped all of his gf's when he found out I was interested in him.

The W begged him not to go through with the divorce, begged him to work on their marriage. She was also demanding all sorts of money in exchange for signing the divorce agreement, she actually thought she was going to be able to file for alimony (they were only married 5 years, and she works), and childsupport (she has a daughter from a previous relationship). It was all rather sad, and desperate.

He was a lying cheater with his soon to be ex-W. Used to have numerous girlfriends before he married her, and was at it again soon after they married. Now he's a completely different person. He's changed his cheating ways because now he's the one who wants to settle down and have kids with me. I know for a fact that he bought a 3 ct Marquise engagement ring worth $10,000, I found it hidden in the closet behind some old clothes we were gving to charity. I think he's waiting until the divorce is final to ask me, and I don't know what I'm going to say. He's a great guy now. He's warm, considerate, honest, but I don't know if it's such a good idea to rush into another marriage as soon as the ink is dry from the 1st. I keep thinking how I would feel if I were the ex, and my husband remarried a few months, or even 6 months later. Every time he hints at marriage, I tell him to enjoy being single while he still can, and he says that there's no point in being in a relationship with someone you want to marry if you can't marry them. This is a complete 360 from how he was before. He's always there when I need him, and he always makes sure that I understand he has no intention of cheating on me. I didn't have to chase him. I never said he had to leave her for me, he just knew I wouldn't stay if he didn't. When I got involved with him I had no idea that we'd fall in love, or that he'd ask me to move in. I thought it was going to be a fling, but it turned into something more. My question is this:

Should I be more considerate of the ex?

Would it be completely inapproriate to communicate with her, to set up flight plans for when her daughter visits us? He loves the little girl as if she were his own.

I'm feeling a few pangs of guilt over the fact that she seems so fragile, but should I feel guilty when the situation was bad before I got involved?

If I decide to accept his proposal should I set the date 6 months to 1year after the divorce date in order to appear more considerate for his ex, and her daughter? Whenver we marry it's going to be very hard for her.

Some of you may be wondering why I'm trying to make things easier on his W, the reason I'm trying is because we're still going to be in contact with her. Just because he doesn't love her the way he loves me doesn't mean that he wants her and her daughter to suffer. He's putting her daughter through private school right now, and he's not going to stop paying the tuition, or supporting her child just because their marriage didn't work out. We're still going to be helping them out financially, when they need it. And if her daughter ever wants to spend time with him, then I'm part of the package. My guy has made it clear to the ex that if her daughter comes over she's going to have to get to know me because he's not going to ask me to leave just because it makes the W uncomfortable to have me around her child.

Honest, open-minded and respectful commenters are encouraged to post replies.

Thanks

I am an OW. My situation is very different from most of the ones posted on this board. I am in fact living with a MM, we've been living together for almost a year. How did this come to be? The W lives in another state, and they considered themselves to be seperated when he and I met. After dating for a few months he told me that he was going to divorce her, and unlike most married men he actually followed through on his promises. My MM found an attorney, had the paperwork drawn, and right now we're awaiting the final court date that will end his marriage.

Recently, I've started to feel sorry for her. I feel bad that my happiness had to come at her expense, but I don't think it was my fault. Their relationship was broken before I ever came along. He said he never loved her, and that the only reason he married her was because he wanted to know that she and her daughter were taken care of. They're dirt poor without his financial support. He makes a nice salary, over 100K. She was the one who proposed to him (3 times before he ever accepted), he refused her twice and gave in because he figured that he might as well make sure she was taken care of. After they were married, he used the fact that he never really loved her as an excuse to cheat on her more times than I'd care to mention. Hence, the reason they were legally seperated and hadn't been together for over a year when I walked in. As a matter of fact one of his ex girlfriends (on-again off agaian while he was married for 2 years), from before me, is currently harrassing the poor W because she thinks he ended it with her to reconcile with his wife. She's calling the W, leaving messages on her voicemail, and emailing her, because she has no idea that he dumped all of his gf's when he found out I was interested in him.

The W begged him not to go through with the divorce, begged him to work on their marriage. She was also demanding all sorts of money in exchange for signing the divorce agreement, she actually thought she was going to be able to file for alimony (they were only married 5 years, and she works), and childsupport (she has a daughter from a previous relationship). It was all rather sad, and desperate.

He was a lying cheater with his soon to be ex-W. Used to have numerous girlfriends before he married her, and was at it again soon after they married. Now he's a completely different person. He's changed his cheating ways because now he's the one who wants to settle down and have kids with me. I know for a fact that he bought a 3 ct Marquise engagement ring worth $10,000, I found it hidden in the closet behind some old clothes we were gving to charity. I think he's waiting until the divorce is final to ask me, and I don't know what I'm going to say. He's a great guy now. He's warm, considerate, honest, but I don't know if it's such a good idea to rush into another marriage as soon as the ink is dry from the 1st. I keep thinking how I would feel if I were the ex, and my husband remarried a few months, or even 6 months later. Every time he hints at marriage, I tell him to enjoy being single while he still can, and he says that there's no point in being in a relationship with someone you want to marry if you can't marry them. This is a complete 360 from how he was before. He's always there when I need him, and he always makes sure that I understand he has no intention of cheating on me. I didn't have to chase him. I never said he had to leave her for me, he just knew I wouldn't stay if he didn't. When I got involved with him I had no idea that we'd fall in love, or that he'd ask me to move in. I thought it was going to be a fling, but it turned into something more. My question is this:

Should I be more considerate of the ex?

Would it be completely inapproriate to communicate with her, to set up flight plans for when her daughter visits us? He loves the little girl as if she were his own.

I'm feeling a few pangs of guilt over the fact that she seems so fragile, but should I feel guilty when the situation was bad before I got involved?

If I decide to accept his proposal should I set the date 6 months to 1year after the divorce date in order to appear more considerate for his ex, and her daughter? Whenver we marry it's going to be very hard for her.

Some of you may be wondering why I'm trying to make things easier on his W, the reason I'm trying is because we're still going to be in contact with her. Just because he doesn't love her the way he loves me doesn't mean that he wants her and her daughter to suffer. He's putting her daughter through private school right now, and he's not going to stop paying the tuition, or supporting her child just because their marriage didn't work out. We're still going to be helping them out financially, when they need it. And if her daughter ever wants to spend time with him, then I'm part of the package. My guy has made it clear to the ex that if her daughter comes over she's going to have to get to know me because he's not going to ask me to leave just because it makes the W uncomfortable to have me around her child.

Honest, open-minded and respectful commenters are encouraged to post replies.

Thanks

respectfully, honestly...what makes you so sure that everything he is telling YOU is the truth? You don't know HER side of the story...What makes you so sure that he has/will change his cheating ways to settle down with you. If you are insistant on marrying him, then I think it would be very considerate to give it a little time, but I don't think it will make a difference one way or the other regarding how things are between you and his EW on down the road...

Everyone deserves a second chance, but the questions that you are asking are things that you should be discussing with MM.

10,000 ring it sounds like he is trying to buy you. I don't know why are material things so damm important anyway. Don't get me wrong I like nice things... You mentioned the ring obviously you are excited about it, You mean to tell me if he asks you with that ring in hand you will say no...

If he does not love her and you believe him, then that is great, he gave up all those other girls for you, I hope that you can believe him. The way you describe the situation sounds fishy to me. The guilt is getting to you for a reason.

I say talk to her, but without the condescension present in your post. You may be surprised at what you hear. You might not be. If you plan to be in contact with her daughter because of him, then you should at least be formally introduced to the mother.

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies, which were exremely helpful.

respectfully, honestly...what makes you so sure that everything he is telling YOU is the truth? You don't know HER side of the story...What makes you so sure that he has/will change his cheating ways to settle down with you. If you are insistant on marrying him, then I think it would be very considerate to give it a little time, but I don't think it will make a difference one way or the other regarding how things are between you and his EW on down the road

I do believe that he is being honest with me, he's even asked if I thought less of him because of his actions in the past. My MM has admitted to lying, cheating, hell even ignoring his ex wife. I have even been allowed to have the password to his email address and look and the emails she sends him, emails which corroborate his story. There were also quite a few emails from the ex girlfriend wanting to hook back up for sex.

I know who he was, and I accept that he has been trying to be a better person for the past year and a half. We've talked about marriage, and I know he wants it; especially now that he's been offered the opportunity to move overseas for work. He has already asked me to move to Europe with him, but has not yet popped the question because the divorce isn't final.

26th September 2006, 7:32 PM #3 pricillia vbmenu_register("postmenu_930197", true);

Established Member

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 592

Everyone deserves a second chance, but the questions that you are asking are things that you should be discussing with MM.

10,000 ring it sounds like he is trying to buy you. I don't know why are material things so damm important anyway. Don't get me wrong I like nice things... You mentioned the ring obviously you are excited about it, You mean to tell me if he asks you with that ring in hand you will say no...

If he does not love her and you believe him, then that is great, he gave up all those other girls for you, I hope that you can believe him. The way you describe the situation sounds fishy to me. The guilt is getting to you for a reason.

I admit that I do have some guilt over the fact that others had to be hurt so that I could find happiness, but it is what it is. I know that it does indeed sound fishy,yet, I know he's mine. I never did the chasing, I never made demands. I'm normally considered somewhat of a free spirit, and if he'd have wished him well if he had wanted to get back together with his wife. I genuinely want him to be happy, so if he decided that now that he is a better person he wanted to give it another shot I would let him go. Yes, I might be sad, hurt, but I wouldn't hold malice in my heart, and I certainly wouldn't harass eiher of them. I'm young enough to recover, and old enough to know better, however, he's not going anywhere. He's stated in no uncertain terms that he doesn't want her back. She's begged in emails, over the phone, and in person, and it's just not happenning. He actually doesn't want to be with someone who'll put up with his sh**. My MM needs to feel like he's with his equal to be happy, and not with someone whose so desperate to be with him that she'll take whatever she can get. He chose me not only because he loved me, nut also because he knew I'd be willing to walk away if the relationship became dysfunctional. That being said, I won't accept the ring until I'm ready. I'm not even 25 yet, and I don't want to rush into it. If it's meant to be, it'll be. And if it's not meant to be, well at least I helped him straighten himself out and get out of a dreadfully unhealthy marriage.

26th September 2006, 11:24 PM #4 NoIDidn't vbmenu_register("postmenu_930402", true);

Established Member

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 92

I say talk to her, but without the condescension present in your post. You may be surprised at what you hear. You might not be. If you plan to be in contact with her daughter because of him, then you should at least be formally introduced to the mother.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, but I think that I wil talk to her once the divorce is final.

Thanks again

sorry to burst your bubble, but I think you are very naive. If he cheated on her HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU. Don't think you are any different than anyone else. Once the newness fades and you are hooked up together, other women will start to look very tempting to him once again. Once a cheat, always a cheat. Why are you kidding yourself in thinking that it will be different with you. Yes, for a time.... Wake up and ditch this loser, or you will be in a lot of pain in the future. You will be the betrayed wife.

living in sin

sorry to burst your bubble, but I think you are very naive. If he cheated on her HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU. Don't think you are any different than anyone else. Once the newness fades and you are hooked up together, other women will start to look very tempting to him once again.

The newness? We've been together for over a year, been living together for a year. If he didn't want to be with me, then he'd be cheating already. I didn't say that I was different from anyone else, but what I do say, and believe is that he is serious about me now. He has been nothing but honest with me about everything in his past. His ex couldn't even keep him to herself while they were dating, she married him knowing that he was still seeing other women. My MM was a liar, but I don't think he's ever been very good at it, and he really doesn't attempt to hide what he's doing when he is doing something he shouldn't. I've met his friends and family. He has turned into a brutally honest person, although, I'm not certain whether this newfound honesty is a good thing, or not. What I do know is that if he does ever decide to cheat the affair won't be difficult to uncover. I'm going into this with my eyes wide open, and I won't let the past stand in the way of my futre.

Once a cheat, always a cheat. Why are you kidding yourself in thinking that it will be different with you. Yes, for a time.... Wake up and ditch this loser, or you will be in a lot of pain in the future. You will be the betrayed wife.

Maybe you're right, but I owe it to myself to find out on my own. I've decided not to judge him based on past behavior, otherwise we'd have never gotten this far. I can only judge him based on the way he is with me, and he's not like that with me. Besides, I'm not the one to cast stones at another. I want to give him the opportunity to prove to himself that he can be the type of man he wants to be...and, maybe one day I will take him as a husband and give him a bit more self-affirmation.

We'll see...

sorry to burst your bubble, but I think you are very naive. If he cheated on her HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU. Don't think you are any different than anyone else. Once the newness fades and you are hooked up together, other women will start to look very tempting to him once again. Once a cheat, always a cheat. Why are you kidding yourself in thinking that it will be different with you. Yes, for a time.... Wake up and ditch this loser, or you will be in a lot of pain in the future. You will be the betrayed wife.

I have always went by this philosophy too...once a cheater, always a cheater. They just work harder to not get caught the next time around.

Problem is, it seems he wasn't "on his own" very long. Him and his wife separated and then you moved in (or however it worked). Usually people need time before relationships begin, so they can heal, find themselves and sort stuff out. Your MM hasn't really done that.

Also, if you are planning on marrying this guy, you and his ex better get along well enough for his daughter. ALL of you have to get along and make it work. Put ego's, hurt feelings aside and think of the child. Keep any bad feelings out of it. And, respect that his exwife will always be part of yours and his life forever in some sort of way.

My suggestion too, you and him go to couples therapy and him go to counselling on his own. He's a known cheater and a liar, people don't change over night, they must want to change...Give him the benefit of the doubt, but never say that he'll never cheat on you. I'm sure his first wife thought the same thing.

I highly recommend joint counseling between you and your MM. See it as pre-marital counseling (and, pre-marital counseling dramatically increases the chances of a marriage staying together).

It has made a world of difference for my MM and I.

His W's daughter is from a previous relationship, so she's his step-child. He never adopted her. I just felt the need to clarify that.

Furthermore, he and his wife have been legally seperated and living in different states for the last 3 years, and they've only beeen married for 5 years. So, while they probably could have gotten a divorce much sooner, they were both dragging their heels. He believes that his W was waiting it out hoping that she cold make it to 10 years even though they were estranged. Where we live there's a 10 year minimum to qualify for alimony.

Also, thanks for the advice about couple's counseling. I have mentioned that to him before, but we both decided that it would be better to wait until the divorce is final before going to see a counselor, that way we can make a fresh start and work on putting the past behind us.

Yes, I do want him to go to counseling to work on our relationship, but I also want him to be able to enjoy being a single man. It's been so long since he has been able to feel free to be with someone and not have to consider it cheating. If he were to decide that he wanted to be on his own, and work on himself, after working through some things with a counselor, then I'd move out in a minute. I am willing to give him the space he needs to grow, and I really do want him to be happy even if it's not with me.

I know that in order for either of us to be happy once the divorce is all over and done with he is going to have to work on himself. I'm not blind, deaf, or dumb I know his past could pop back up and intrude upon our future.

In the past, he was always attracted to very needy, and mentally unstable women. He was always playing the white knight to damsels in distress, and this is an accurate representation of his relationship with the W and past affairs as well. The W came from a bad background of abuse, rape, things of that nature; and she wasn't financially secure on her own. His W moved in while they were dating, and after that she was as good as in. He has confessed to me that he never had the heart to put her out, not even when they broke up, because he knew that she had no place else to go. Once they had been married for a while, and she was financially secure she was the one to move out. She used to live in the same city as him, and they would get together occasionally, but 3 years ago she moved out of the state. Before he filed for divorce, he hadn't seen her or her daughter in over 6 months. So in all actuality these 2 have been seperated for most of their marriage. That's why I didn't understand her begging him to call off the divorce when he initiated the process. I mean it's not as if they've even been together in years, perhaps she just feared the loss of the financial support he gived to herself and her child.

About the other women...Well, he used to choose girlfriends that were psychos as well. 2 examples:

One of the MW he dated lied and told him that she was going through a divorce herslef, when really she didn't put her husband out until after my MM asked her out. So, she put her husband out, dated my MM for a few months, and then stalked him for a while after he figured out what had happened and dumped her.

Another MW he dated, is the one who is harrassing his W right now. This MW has a job, a husband, and 3 kids, yet she still found time to leave at least 5 nasty messages on his W's voicemail every day during the affair, and to send her emails about the way she'd ****ed her husband. She faked a pregnancy, and a miscarriage. She's broken into his office before to get contact information on his W, and any other women he's been seeing. Unfortunately, she has continued to harass the W even though he dumped he,r almost 2 years ago, before we got together. This latter MW thinks that my MM dumped her to reconcile with his W, so she keeps harassing her, probably just trying to get rid of the competition.

And, those are just examples of some of the women he's been with. Truth be told, he either used to attract mentally unstable women, or being with him was enough to drive a sane woman over the edge. And, what is worse is the fact that he'd only ever dump them when they crossed the line. I know it sounds crazy, but women love this guy, he's smart, articulate, good looking, and whenever he's there I feel like I'm no-one else exists and I'm safe. I can only imagine the way he has made these other women feel was enough to inspire such acts of lunacy. For those of you wondering, I have seen proof, and talked to his friends who have been able to corroborate most of his stories. As a matter of fact all of his friends are suprised he picked someone so sane to be with this time. I didn't have a great time growing up, but I have worked through my issues. I'm not clingy,not obsessive, intellegent, well educated, and men tell me that I'm quite fetching. I have a full life. If I didn't love this man, and want the best for him, then I wouldn't be with him. My family, and friends want me to leave him, but I'm steadfast in my resolve. I love him. I want to help him be a better person, even if he doesn't end up with me.