JUST the facts...

Just because I am intrigued (for lack of a better word) with everyone's take on my situation (the tid bits that I have given anyways) I am going to lay out JUST the facts (i.e removing MY feelings) and I want your opinion...what would you do, what did you do, what is your take on it essentially.

Facts:

* Married to H Oct 2, 1999

* First Daughter Born Dec. 24, 2002

* July 2003, close to divorce saught counseling, counselor was an ass and said you don't need a counselor

* Second Daughter Born Sept. 26, 2005

* Jan 2006 I say I am really happy right now, I don't think our marriage has ever been better. H says Yeah actually things are great.

* March 26, 2006: husband sits me down for a talk and tells me he is unhappy, then proceeds to ask/tell me he wants to get a girlfriend so he can be a better H to me at home. we also have a VERY extensive conversation about what an EA is, he just can't seem to understand, no reason it came up though, it just did and we talked about it.

* March/April: several more conversations happen, girlfriend thing comes up several more times. We had sex once at some point to during this time frame, he had been out previously, was pretty ready to go when he got home, the sex was great! he starts a myspace blog. someone is paying him alot of attn. girl he works with we'll call her HER

* April 22, 2006: H and I have a conversation in the morning about how I am starting to feel like maybe I don't trust him (first time ever in the course of our lives together), H goes out that night drinking with some "friends". H is not home at 3am (bars close at 2am) I call him twice on cell phone no answer. H calls back at nearly 4am, says he was too drunk to drive so he was sleeping it off in his car.

* April 29, 2006: after a long conversation about where things are between us, and me telling H I really feel like their is something he is not telling me, H tells me originally when I called he was in HER car, she was dropping people off before heading back to take him to HIS car, but it was a group of people and they are all just friends. including them and nothing is going on between them, they are just friends.

* May 1: I leave our home with my two girls to stay with my brother for what I thought would be a week.

* MAY 2006: lots of conversing, lots of talk about counseling, he refuses to go, lots of waffling from him, hes IN this marriage, hes confused, back and forth back and forth. Mind you now EVERYONE is involved, my family, his family.

* May 17, 2006: first counselor session, where he proceeds to tell a very pretty version of the story. he says he doesn't know if he wants to be married.

* May 19, 2006: I am back in my home with the girls, he is staying on a friends couch.

* May 25, 2006: 2nd counselor visit I proceed to tell the therapist the not so pretty version of the story, and lay him out for lots of things, the house being a s*** hole, money issues lots of stuff. he wishes to be legally separated so he can have his freedom, space and time.He admits to an EA.

* May 26th, 2006: he attends yankees game with HER, tells me its "friends" later admits to HER.

* May 30th: I find cell phone bill (rather hack into online) and find 200+ calls to MI number (where HER is originally from). As well I hack into some accts. and run a credit report, nothing else FULL ON suspicious that I can tell, but some are borderline.

* May 31, 2006: I receive a call from a mutual friend, but its a he said she said thing, and can't tell if the information is genuine. but something about renting a hotel room came up in reference to him and HER. We have a full on blow out over the phone. he denys denys denys. we get to a better type of real talking. I was sworn to secrecy on the hotel thing so couldn't say anything about it.

* June 1, 2006: he tells me he ended his EA with this girl (which by the way the night before he said he only called it an EA because by MY definiton it was and that nothing but a friendly peck on the cheek and hug have taken place. I decide to call the friend that he has been staying with and also the one who made the hotel comment (not the one that called and told me about it) remember I can't say anything but I try my best to get him to say something. he says he has no info for me, but that by what I have told him he thinks something is going on.

* Some point between: he says he doesn't want to end his relationship with his "friends" I say fine, because I was excluding HER he apparently was not.

* June 2, 2006: I decide to stop snooping and feel like things are on the up and up.

* June 5, 2006: he makes plans to spend sometime with me, then bails, and I find out later that he instead went to the movies with HER. and I take a gander again at the cell phone and he is STILL talking to her. I also start to lose my mind.

* June 7, 2006: i address the cell phone thing again, he insists they are just friends, opens up a smidgen about this "relationship"

* June 9, 2006: we have our 3rd therapy appt. and it goes relatively well.

Thats all the major events. Everything "seems" okay. but the call are still happening!

It's apparent you're caught up in investigating him, but pull back and look at the big picture. He's having an affair, and anymore evidence isn't going to make you feel better. You have two kids and yourself to think about. He wants this other woman. No matter how much you love him and want things to work, he has to want that too in order for your relationship to have a chance. There's a big red neon sign above his head that says, "I'm having too much fun to worry about a wife and kids". Put your energy into finding a lawyer, getting your finances in order and loving your kids. It feels really good to stop the chaos and say enough.

Good luck sweetie.

Honey, are you kidding me??? I haven't read any of your posts before until today but come on- this guy is having an affair.

If he's not having sex with you- he's having it somewhere!!

He's told you in every way possible that he's not in this relationship. I know you want to dig to make sure it's NOT true because you don't want it to be, but it is.

I would bet money that he's slept with her. It's wrong for a married man to have a relationship with another woman like that. My husband has female friends from college- but they do NOT text him, and they DO NOT go out to dinner alone or to the movies. In fact, they only talk about three or four times a year.

I've cheated in my prior marriage. They ALWAYS deny it or blame it on the betrayed spouse (BS). It's just incredible of the lengths that they will go to not to have to tell the truth.

Right now, he's in limbo and so are you. You need to take back control of this situation. He wants to have the comforts of coming to your home with you and the girls, as well as his girlfriend and his fun. Don't you have more respect for yourself than to allow this??

Is he coming to watch the girls for you to work??

You need to be evasive. Be dressed up when he comes. Don't answer your phone when he calls you. Tell him, "Unless you want to talk about something with the girls- do not call me" If he does- and starts to talk about life issues besides the kids tell him "I'm sorry, I asked you not to talk to me unless it's about the kids"

Start taking better care of yourself etc. Trust me, he'll notice. You need to be strong. See an attorney and find out what your options are.

He can have friends, that does not include HER. He will have to write a no contact for life letter to her, move back home and agree to go to counseling. That means he has to own up to what he's done, make it right, become an open book.

I recommend "Surviving an Affair" and also "Love must be Tough" by James Dobson.

I have read some of your other posts and I understand you wanting more proof or eveidence of what it is he is doing. However, I would imagine you need that proof to maybe present in court or to a lawyer? Other than that I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to get the eviedence. He has openly admittted to you before about wanting another woman etc. Also, no amount of counseling is going to work unless his heart is into fixing the marriage. Personally I don't think he wants too. Of course I do suggest you continue to go to one, someone that can help guide you in a better direction as to what to do. Go to a lawyer and tell them what you have told us. Then they can tell you what you need to do from here.

I keep getting the same responses. Here anyways. Everyone else seems to see it but me. Maybe my friends do see it and figure I have to walk this one alone so they dont say anything. I dont know. I am confused I know that much. How can I throw it away for a maybe though, how? 2 kids, a home, 10 years. I do know as much that I need to address him still calling her, I just wish for once in his f***ing life he would make the right decision without ME telling him he has to or forcing it on him. and then what If I do do that? Wont I always wonder? Do you think talking to her would clear this one way or another, I mean I DO have ALL her phone numbers, and her full name, and work schedule. God forbid her home number pops up, I will be calling her husband so fast! What are some things that the OM might say that would be red flags for me?

Your friend just probably can tell that you WANT to believe it's not happening so they are not telling you.

My husband's friends point blank saw his exwife in a bar with another man- the man she later left him for- and never told him. They didn't want to hurt him and they knew he'd be devastated. She knew they saw her too!

It's not going to do you any good to call her. She's just going to lie. If anything I'd call her husband. If you have her address you can get her number. Ask him if he knows how often they are talking to each other, texting each other and hanging out.

He's not OM either, he's OW's husband. Do NOT tell your husband you're going to do this because he will tell her and she'll have time to warn her husband. "This crazy woman thinks I'm sleeping with her husband- so if she calls you-ignore her"

I'm just wondering if you'll ever believe it unless you see them full on naked in bed??

you and me both! I think I might have to. I know its sick, my brain tells me as much, I dont know whats wrong with me, this is soooo the opposite of what I am "normally". does some messed up things to a person, it really does.

IMO,I think people are telling you what you DON"t want to hear, because maybe deep down you know theres truth there. I really hate you are going through this though. I have a feeling right now, that no matter what people may tell you, you are adament about finding out all you can, not that its a bad thing, but the obvious is right infront of you. It does sound like too you are maybe wanting to work things out with your husband, but the thing is, he has to want that as well. Right now I don't see that.

Jade

yeah I can't disagree on that either. what if I never find what I am looking for. i guess I scared of that. I had a conversation with him last night, where I said hey look I have tryed not being obsessed, tryed ignoring it, tryed pretending like its not there, but I still dont beleive you, no matter what you say I dont, and that I think I am going to have to leave you based only on what I have. it was late, didn't go anywhere really, the thing is, he keeps saying the same thing over and over and over, in the same tone, I have nothing to admit to, I didn't do anything, he does it in a "light" way too, as if its so ridiculous that its enough to have a teensy lighthearted laugh about it, its not mean the way he does it but its the same everytime, and he is always saying "I understand" as in I understand why you feel this way, then goes on to tell me, I have done nothing wrong, I am not ready to leave this, but if you can't get past this your right we do have to end it. blah blah blah, it just made me feel worse to actually talk to him about it.

"What if I never find what I am looking for."

And even if you do, is it going to make you feel any better? Are you looking for jusfication on your feelings that something is up, proof etc? It would probably be easier if he just up and admitted, yes he was having an affair I guess. I think its not healthy to keep living like this, and at some point you will need to make some kind of decison as to what to do. Continue to live like this or get out of the situation.

Jade

Hun.. even if he didn't sleep with her, he still cheated on you. Let me give you a list of what he's done.

- Has lied to you on numerous occasions

- Has disrespected you and your children

- Has pushed you aside to spend time with this other woman

- Has tried to convince the counselor it was not his fault

- Has acted very immature and has not communicated with you

- Has actually tried to make you think him having a gf would be the answer on how to treat you better

- Has acted totally selfish not for the past 6 months but probably since the beginning of the marriage

- What he says and what he does are not matching up. Words are cheap. I could tell you things to make your heart melt but unless I put actions behind it, that's all it is.. Words.

- Has taken that bond between you & him and jeopardized it.

- Has not shown any commitment to you.

- He will do this again even if he breaks it off with this woman. It's not if but when.

- He has not taken you or your children seriously. He acts like a spoiled, immature child. You are raising 3 children.

It's time to devote your life to YOU & your children. What I believe you are going through is the 5 stages of grief. You are in the denial stage now which is the first stage. Please look this up. The thing is the 5 stages of grief usually happen when a loved one dies, but it happens during signs of a troubled marriage. It's even kinda worse since you see him & talk to him but yet the person you knew or thought you knew inside is dead.

What you don't want happening is what my aunt went through. She was married 25 years had no clue anything was going on. He unexpectedly died in front of her (heart attack) she was beyond heart broken. Two weeks later she found a safe that she didn't know about. Finally got it open and what she saw crushed her. Pictures of him with another woman and divorce papers signed by him. He never told her about the divorce papers, never took it to the courthouse. I think he did it to convince the OW that he was leaving his wife. Now my aunt is without answer since he's dead and this OW lives in another state.

You have so many years ahead of you, your life isn't over. Until you demand respect from your husband you won't get it. The only way to do that is to serve him divorce papers. Babe, you tried. This isn't something that is your fault. I wish there were more people in the world like you that have such a big heart. Unfortunetly some people like your husband take advantage of great women such as yourself.

Don't base your self-worth on this marriage or him. On he can fix himself, you can't. And I believe that is not going to happen until he start individual counseling by himself that he arranges by himself. He has not hit bottom yet, however that's something you can't stop. In the mean time start making yourself & your children happy.

I think my biggest problem, is I can't justify a direction. can't justify staying, can'y justify leaving, the only thing I can jusitfy in my head, is being in "stuck" mode.

and my obsession continues.... now I have OW's address (home) and husbands name, and phone number.

She is by the schedule off for the next two days, so I can't call, and then I will have other things to do for sat. and sun. SO i possibly have to wait now till next week to "do something". I think it will give me what I need to talk to him, see what he knows, how is he feeling, since he is likely in my position, or maybe he will say they are just friends, maybe he wont know at all, and will have to investigate, I justify it with, if I have to miserable and suffer so should someone else, and maybe then with two of us working together we can figure this out.

H just called. the obligatory call. the I will call you tomorrow, so I called so I can say I called kind of call. >>>>eye roll<<<<<

eventually you will get to a point that nothing else matters besides leaving him and you won't have a second thought about it. until then, you will do what you're doing now, going back and forth and being unhappy.

i guess there's no point in trying to rush the process, because you can't, but how nice it would be if you could. and that goes for break-ups without cheating as well.

good luck to you. your husband is a lying bastard and you sound like a good person who doesn't deserve this.

Read LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by Dr. James Dobson!!!!!!!!!

Milf,

This is a HORRIBLE situation. I really feel your pain and frustration. But don't think you are 'stuck'. You still have choices. You don't like the situation that you are in and you have to believe that you don't have to stay in it. I have been in nearly the same situation as you. My h had an affair with a co-worker and I found a single innocous text but it set alarm bells ringing in my head. He told me it was a 'work friend'. I believed it. I checked the phone bills. They were calling/texting up to 15x per day. I refused to believe it was a work friend because it had all been so secret. Eventually he admitted it was an EA and he had kissed her 'on the cheek'. I went mental and told him to stop calling her. I nearly told her husband - wish I had now. Later I found out he was still texting/calling. He told me that his career would suffer if he just told her that they couldn't contact each other anymore. I believed it. A couple more things happened (won't bore you) and eventually he got the message not to contact her. Still all the time my guts were churning. Eventually, after 8 months of this (!) I sat down and told him that I could no longer live with a liar and if he told me the truth that perhaps we could work on it, but if he continued to lie that we were finished. He eventually admitted to an physical affair. I am rambling now but the point is I had no hard evidence apart from a phone bill and a gut feeling.

Your husband has admitted to an EA ( no way anyone would do that with a friend) and is continuing to lie and meet her secretly. You have heard rumours about him from other people. IMO it's not enough for you to leave but it IS enough for you to ask him to decide either to quit this person, stop lying to you and work on his marriage, or the alternative is that he chooses this person and the marriage is over.

Harsh I know but that is what cheaters need to make them open their eyes and come back down to earth. He has to consider all he might lose before he will end this. Don't be stuck. Get strong and refuse to be lied to and manipulated.

I don't like to say this honey, but it sounds like he is definitely having an affair and it also sounds like it is physcial. Having proof might still leave you in indecision anyway. What he needs to know is what he really stands to lose and that you are not prepared to be stuck with a liar.

If you still want to get more evidence, by all means contact the OW's husband but not the OW. Most likely she will laugh it off and make you feel stupid. But be prepared : Her husband might not like waht you've got to say, so don't expect an instant ally. Think about how you would feel if someone gave you this information.

Milf, it's tough. Try to keep yourself together and look after those lovely daughters of yours. They are more important than any of this mess.

Sylvia

I think my biggest problem, is I can't justify a direction. can't justify staying, can'y justify leaving, the only thing I can jusitfy in my head, is being in "stuck" mode.

 

and my obsession continues.... now I have OW's address (home) and husbands name, and phone number.

 

She is by the schedule off for the next two days, so I can't call, and then I will have other things to do for sat. and sun. SO i possibly have to wait now till next week to "do something". I think it will give me what I need to talk to him, see what he knows, how is he feeling, since he is likely in my position, or maybe he will say they are just friends, maybe he wont know at all, and will have to investigate, I justify it with, if I have to miserable and suffer so should someone else, and maybe then with two of us working together we can figure this out.

 

H just called. the obligatory call. the I will call you tomorrow, so I called so I can say I called kind of call. >>>>eye roll<<<<<

Milf629.

Your husband doesn't love you anymore.

It's the infamous seven-year itch. 1999 + 7 = 2006. And it seems like he got it a few years early if ya smell what I'm cookin'.

Your marriage is over.

I know it hurts you for me to hit you over the head so bluntly but you don't seem to have any self-respect remaining.

You KNOW he's having an affair & you've known for a long time.

Yes.

He's had sex with this woman & many times.

It's all right there in your timeline.

According to your facts I would say he already jumped ship by 2005. To be GENEROUS.

You need to respect yourself more & quit letting suckas walk all over you like this.

I want you to read my post

"The 3 Billion Rule (3,000,000,000)"

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t89191/?highlight=johnlucas

You deserve better than this. We ALL deserve better than that.

Life is short & you don't know for sure if there's an afterlife.

If there is, fine. But act like this life is THE ONLY life you have & will EVER have.

If you think of it in that approach you will waste less time with timewasters.

Find someone who will treat you like you ARE SUPPOSED to be treated & quit lapdogging for this jabroni.

3,000,000,000.

Respect yourself.

John Lucas

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, becasue i didn't read all the posts, but just incase he is having a physical affair you might want to go get tested for STD's. I know you might not want to hear that or believe it, but its not really out of the question to at least get tested. I'm sorry this is happening.

wow. can I have more details on your situation? Just out of curiosity sake. the funny thing is EVERYONE here is saying the same thing, and yet and yet I can't seem to let this go, on a maybe and a cell phone and a gut feeling. the more I read the more that fades. I know in my heart two things, A.) i will not be with someone who has been unfaithful, at one time I thought that meant mental affairs, but now i realize it ALL comes down to the physical. B.) I will never really go on not knowing. I will divorce, it would subside in my mind, but I will never have that closure I so desparately want. maybe if I pretend like we can work things out, he will confess? over time? maybe?

you know not sure if this rings any bells for anyone, BUT, he has this thing, about me not thinking he cheated, like even if we can't work things out he doesn't ever want me to think its because he cheated, he has a complex about it, he doesn't want to be THAT person, not only that but I cannot tell you how bad things will get if his parents find out, I know people react differently then you think, but I really think that that is something that holds him back too, what other people will think and say. I also have an inkling that his father knows something, and it is just an inkling I have absolutely NO BASE to think it, it was just a thought that popped into my head one day.

I don't think you read my post.

Click this link & gain the clarity & courage you need to overcome your current confusion & fear.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=825304&postcount=15

Read it ALL & click the special link I put inside that post.

You really need to see that.

John Lucas

My two cents:

I am not a bs or married for that matter but from reading posts in here and hearing of a few 'real' experiences most women who are in stuck mode as you are us spying and looking for answers as a stall tactic. Hoping their H will come to their senses and stop the A. To say your still looking for answers is bull pucky. He's already told you:

> H tells me originally when I called he was in HER car, she was dropping people off before heading back to take him to HIS car,

> he says he doesn't know if he wants to be married.

>he wishes to be legally separated so he can have his freedom, space and time.He admits to an EA.

> he attends yankees game with HER, tells me its "friends" later admits to HER.

>I find cell phone bill (rather hack into online) and find 200+ calls to MI number (where HER is originally from).

> he says he doesn't want to end his relationship with his "friends" I say fine, because I was excluding HER he apparently was not.

>he makes plans to spend sometime with me, then bails, and I find out later that he instead went to the movies with HER.

> opens up a smidgen about this "relationship"

>the call are still happening!

His friends are trying to tell you also.

>

I receive a call from a mutual friend, but its a he said she said thing, and can't tell if the information is genuine. but something about renting a hotel room came up in reference to him and HER.

>I was sworn to secrecy on the hotel thing so couldn't say anything about it.

(IMO this is the mutual friend trying to clue you in with out getting too involved themselves. especially since he/she is friends w/ U both)

Any more proof would be redundent. The question is what do you want to do? I sounds like you want to stay. Fine. Then you need to get into steath mode to save your marriage. Is HER married? if so tell her husband. Let him handle HER while you handle yours. It sounds like your husband knows his best interest is in his family but there is not enough noise being made to stop him. IF you want this marriage then the gloves have got to come off.

I swear...Love Must Be Tough is the book you need right now. It deals DIRECTLY with your situation.....

Please go out and get it. It will give you a plan on how to face this head on.

I have read it and applied the principals....

Trust me. It works...

I posted at the same time as some of you. I did read John. I did. Here's what I will do, I will get to her Husband, because like I said previously why should I be the only one miserable, he deserves to know too. maybe I am being presumptive but I dont care. i will lie to him, tell him I can get over a physical affair, and work through our marriage if he tells me the truth, (not right then and there, I want him to sit on it a bit, before he gives me his redundant "I have nothing to admit statement") but that is he lies it is over, if he tells the truth I will in time forgive him and our marriage will be wonderful and We will be better then ever blah blah blah whatever it takes to get him to tell me. but that lying WILL result in divorce. and no no no I will not stay if he did it, I can't I will be lying my way to the truth (how ironic). but I think I have to do that. now when to get to her husband, I want to do that first.

and basically now I start to accept my fate. the big "D" word. life f***ing sucks.

I have done nothing wrong, I am not ready to leave this, but if you can't get past this your right we do have to end it.

He's done nothing wrong but he's ok with you ending the marriage?

If he isn't willing to stop talking to her 200 times month in order to save your marriage, I think you have all the answers you need. Even if he were totally innocent and all those middle of the night calls were totally innocent, he would stop the contact because it is a problem and you can't get past it. That he won't do that tells me he means what he says - HE's not ready to leave the marriage, but he's not willing to save it either and will just let you walk away...

You and your children deserve better, sweets.

I am afraid norajane is right.

He doesn't want to be the "bad guy". He wants to walk away from this marriage "smelling like a rose" to his family and yours.

He WILL NOT admit to the affair. He cares too much about what everyone else thinks. But, if you walk away, he can just shake his said and say, "I tried...but SHE wanted this, not me."