Understanding Gender Insults

First, find me a link to a reputable source.

They argued against the California Paternity Justice Act, it's a matter of public record.

Meh. More like the best interest of the state. They don't want to have to dole out welfare or other funding if they can keep some poor soul that a woman duped into believing a child was his on the hook. It's immoral and utterly reprehensible to force a man to pay for a child that is not his. I feel sorry for the child but we can't trump a grown man's rights in order to better suit a child he has no responsibility for.

Thank you for being fair. You don't know what it means to a man to hear stuff like this out of a woman's mouth.

Well, no, it's not the same thing. If your point is that everyone has an insult for someone, I'd say that's probably true, but the specific thing the OP is pointing out is, as you even admit, vastly more used by women against men.

 

He finds it curious. I find it curious that it's so hard to discuss.

When these women insult men's "manliness" they believe they are attacking his perceived sexual desirability to women. Because one's sexual desirability to the opposite sex is by far the most important dimension in their own lives.

All that "you're not a real man" means is that "I don't find you sexually desirable, and I am a proxy for all womenkind."

"Real man" = "f*ckable"

That's because emotionally troubled women, the women who have the greatest need to fling these kinds of insults, arising out of their perceived gripes against various men in their past, in their present, and men in general, tend to view all interactions between the sexes through the lens of their own perceived desirability, or lack thereof, towards men. Remember: the kind of women who have the need to do this, are also commonly the same women who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, such as remaining in FWBs that they find degrading, etc. EVERYTHING in their world is viewed along the spectrum of whether they perceive themselves as being sexually desirable, or not.

This kind of insult most often gets flung at men as perceived "retaliation" by these women when these women perceive whatever the man in question happens to be saying as an attack on the woman's desirability as a sex partner, wife, mate, etc. And, since these women tend to view EVERYTHING along that dimension, the dimension of their perceived sexual desirability, almost ANYTHING that a man says or posts which the woman finds cause to disagree with, is deemed appropriately responded to by the tired old "attack on the man's masculinity."

The problem is that an attack on a man's sexual desirability over the internet is by definition ridiculous, since only by knowing the guy in person can one have any clue as to whether he is or is not sexually desirable.

In contrast, whether or not someone makes an illogical or irrational argument can be analyzed simply by looking at the words posted, by the nature of the process of logical analysis.

So, when one of these woman who feels this way argues illogically, and is called out on it, she views it as an attack not on her ability to argue logically, but rather, on her worth or value as a woman. But that's because essentially every aspect of her personality is perceived by her as being of importance only insofar as it impacts upon her desirability as a woman to the opposite sex.

Thus for example the ability to be logical is not viewed as an end in itself; rather, its importance is measured by whether being logical raises the woman's sexual desirability. That's why many women put so little value in even pretending to try to make rational, logical arguments in these kinds of discussions.

A rational rebuttal to a man's unfair attack on a woman is not to argue back that the man is not "really a man." It is to debunk the initial irrational argument made by the man. The problem is what is the woman going to do when she lacks the ability to make the rational rebuttal, either because she lacks the ability to do so; or there is no rational rebuttal to be made (i.e. because the man's argument is valid?)

Meh. More like the best interest of the state. They don't want to have to dole out welfare or other funding if they can keep some poor soul that a woman duped into believing a child was his on the hook. It's immoral and utterly reprehensible to force a man to pay for a child that is not his. I feel sorry for the child but we can't trump a grown man's rights in order to better suit a child he has no responsibility for.

It's no better than taking some random guy off the sidewalk and making him pay.

 

This is the kind of stuff that helped to make feminist a dirty word.

I personally believe that most (not all but most) ideologies have some good ideas that one can draw from and discard the rest. I don't really consider myself to be as much as a feminist as a do a humanist but given the fact that I consider myself to be misanthropic I don't know if that's the right term either..

I just don't understand why women who embody none of the traits these men find repulsive get so upset about it. If none of it applies to you then move on because men are not talking about you. Why do they take it so personally?

Because they are irrational.

It's no better than taking some random guy off the sidewalk and making him pay.

Even worse when he's been bamboozled into thinking those kids are his because that is a knife to the heart along with the gutting of his wallet. Women who do that crap are inhumanly cruel

Even worse when he's been bamboozled into thinking those kids are his because that is a knife to the heart along with the gutting of his wallet. Women who do that crap are inhumanly cruel

Thank you. If more women thought like this there would be much less bitter men.

Thank you. If more women thought like this there would be much less bitter men.

And fewer also as well.

I find cheating ANYONE disgusting. I also find someone distinguishing between genders just to gauge how disgusting an action is, further disgusting.

You are certainly entitled to your subjective emotions. Note I said "emotion," not "opinion," because saying you find something "disgusting" is simply your emotional reaction to a given stimulus.

What you are not entitled to do is make the assumption that your subjective emotions are valid generally. You may feel "disgusted" by so many things simply because you are an overly dramatic or histrionic personality.

The reason why I found the "low-grade" thread insulting was that many of the guys posting in the thread only found the behavior being discussed disgusting if a women did it.

See what I posted above. No one "insulted" you, they merely stated their own entirely subjective opinions the same way you just did. You can find anything you want to be "insulting" but that has no basis in objective reality.

They had either the opposite opinion about men doing it or claimed they had zero opinion about it "because they don't date men".

So? A rational reaction would be to simply believe that their subjective opinions were not adequately supported by verifiable objective data so as to enable you to agree with those opinions. An irrational reaction would be: "How insulting! How disgusting! You hurt my feelings!" And this indeed is quite typical of how many women seem to respond to controversial discussion topics.

Add to that the fact that a few even went further to target me and ascribe completely false assumptions of my behavior and actions and I fail to see how I would have not felt insulted.

Well I recollect that you admitted you yourself were a participant in an FWB relationship, weren't you? Obviously you have the right to live however you want to; however, others have the right to form their own opinion as to the propriety of such relationships. If you are so oversensitive that you can't stand to hear other people's opinions about your lifestyle, nothing is forcing you to trumpet that lifestyle on a public internet discussion forum.

Rational: My business is my business and it is private; I will not publish my personal stuff on a public internet forum.

Irrational: I will proudly trumpet my personal business to the world, and if I do, everyone must LOVE ME!!!!!

Yep, it's sickening how so many political movements are willing to utilize the fanatic for their own gains. I could barely read what she wrote. That level of madness mixed with intense hatred is utterly painful to digest.

OK fair enough.

But what you and many of the other women here and elsewhere don't seem to realize is that a modified, more palatable kind of fanaticism is at the root of all of the current "feminist" concepts that you claim to believe/have been indoctrinated with by the media, your education, government, and older female relatives. The agitprop that is being mouthed today is a direct descendant of what you now characterize as "fanaticism."

Okay, let's take a look at NOW. This is their list of current actions http://www.now.org/actions/

Issues they are involved with include funding for social security, concerns about the retirement age, funding for domestic violence shelters, abortion rights, and rights for women in other countries. There is also an appeal to have Simpson step down because of comments that he made about social security (not gender).

I can see how someone could disagree with abortion and I know some men's right crazies have problems with domestic violence shelters, but none of this stuff is man hating. It is pretty standard progessive politics with a pretty specific emphasis on women's issues.

As for the idea that all sex is rape, that was Dworkin and McKinney, at least one of whom is dead. It was always pretty radical and has never been a common belief. It has always been pretty fringe.

The issue is more what these groups are not addressing. They are more interested in equal pay than in quality assurance in daycare.

The basic attitude of groups like NOW is I want more money... I don't care about my kids, or anyone else for that matter... me me me.

Which is why they have a bad rap. I mean is it too much to ask that women care about more than themselves?

Even worse when he's been bamboozled into thinking those kids are his because that is a knife to the heart along with the gutting of his wallet. Women who do that crap are inhumanly cruel

You can say it's terrible all you want, but it's completely legal... and nobody cares enough to change it.

Statistically it's not all that uncommon. Like about 1/1000 chance for each guy.

OK fair enough.

 

But what you and many of the other women here and elsewhere don't seem to realize is that a modified, more palatable kind of fanaticism is at the root of all of the current "feminist" concepts that you claim to believe/have been indoctrinated with by the media, your education, government, and older female relatives. The agitprop that is being mouthed today is a direct descendant of what you now characterize as "fanaticism."

Don't beg the question.

Feminism is an ideology; and there are as many voices within feminism as there are people who adhere to the basic concepts. Granted, much of modern Western feminism leaves a bad taste in my mouth - "girlpower" comes to mind...

That said, one cannot attach the word fanaticism to an ideology that is/has been evolving, and in it's intention, seeks a better world for women, children and men.

The issue is more what these groups are not addressing. They are more interested in equal pay than in quality assurance in daycare.

 

The basic attitude of groups like NOW is I want more money... I don't care about my kids, or anyone else for that matter... me me me.

 

Which is why they have a bad rap. I mean is it too much to ask that women care about more than themselves?

 

 

 

 

You can say it's terrible all you want, but it's completely legal... and nobody cares enough to change it.

 

Statistically it's not all that uncommon. Like about 1/1000 chance for each guy.

Can you point me to an example of NOW's stance on me me me? Where are women saying that they only care about themselves?

One thing I noticed about many of the female posters here is when they are proven wrong in an argument, rather than admit to being wrong or simply stop posting, they'll resort to insults and personal attacks. If I'm wrong, I'm not going to personally attack the person because that shows a lack of class on my part.

One thing I noticed about many of the female posters here is when they are proven wrong in an argument, rather than admit to being wrong or simply stop posting, they'll resort to insults and personal attacks. If I'm wrong, I'm not going to personally attack the person because that shows a lack of class on my part.

But, it's ok to refer to women as "trashbags" and "irrational" when the argument isn't going the way that a poster likes?

It's not that the women posters are proven wrong. More like the male posters refuse to accept what the women are saying.

But, it's ok to refer to women as "trashbags" and "irrational" when the argument isn't going the way that a poster likes?

Never said it was okay and since I'm not a woman, no one is going to refer to me as a trashbag or irrational.

It's not that the women posters are proven wrong. More like the male posters refuse to accept what the women are saying.

The women in those cases are no more accepting. I've seen quite a few instances where the female poster is clearly wrong and the next thing out of her mouth is a personal insult.

Never said it was okay and since I'm not a woman, no one is going to refer to me as a trashbag or irrational.

 

 

 

 

 

The women in those cases are no more accepting. I've seen quite a few instances where the female poster is clearly wrong and the next thing out of her mouth is a personal insult.

Not a woman either, but I can take offense to such blatant disrespect. I have a mother and daughters who are neither trashbags or irrational.

Wrong is subjective. We all have opinions.

Not a woman either, but I can take offense to such blatant disrespect. I have a mother and daughters who are neither trashbags or irrational.

 

Wrong is subjective. We all have opinions.

I take offense to blatant disrespect as well. It doesn't matter who initiates it. I took offense to the thread started by The Fourth Planet and it wasn't even directed towards my gender. It's one thing to have an opinion. It's something else to personally attack someone, even if the person being attacked was wrong.

I still can't believe that someone of some:sick: intellect would side with someone regardless of gender based on a simple belief, you should not belittle women, My mother and sisters that I have respected and defended in life deserve better than to have lived their lives knowing that society as a whole still doesn't believe they are not equal to the human race and should be treated accordingly.

I still can't believe that someone of some:sick: intellect would side with someone regardless of gender based on a simple belief, you should not belittle women, My mother and sisters that I have respected and defended in life deserve better than to have lived their lives knowing that society as a whole still doesn't believe they are not equal to the human race and should be treated accordingly.

That one long sentence just confuses me.

I think very few of us don't like or respect women in general.

I still can't believe that someone of some:sick: intellect would side with someone regardless of gender based on a simple belief, you should not belittle women, My mother and sisters that I have respected and defended in life deserve better than to have lived their lives knowing that society as a whole still doesn't believe they are not equal to the human race and should be treated accordingly.

What about your father and your brothers? I have no sisters and my mother gave birth and then did everything in her power to try and destroy me so why should I have respect for her?

I know this was several pages ago, but I wanted to address it:

Many women seem to hate their gender role, and actively try to make sure they are not held to that standard. That makes sense to me. It makes sense to want no standards or accountability.

Yes, I hate the fact that I've walked into interviews to have male interviewers ask illegal questions about my plans to have a family and why I'm even bothering to pursue a certain career field if I want to eventually have children. I hate the fact that when I was in high school, I had a judge at a club competition make a degrading mark about how I'm going to make some man completely miserable one day judging by my legal argumentation skills. I hate that my female friends and I got called names when we did well in debate club because women aren't supposed to be able to argue logically. I hate that since I was a child my family has held me to completely different standards because of my gender. I hate that my family assumes I'm less capable at math and science because of my chromosome pair despite the fact that my hard work has shown otherwise. I hate that my family doesn't value my educational accomplishments as much because they've told me I'm supposed to marry a smart, successful man so it doesn't matter what I do anyway. I hate that I always got told to do chores like washing dishes or cooking whereas my brothers were never, ever asked to do anything of the sort because it's "women's work." I hate that I got crapped on for living with my SO without being married when my brothers who have done the same don't get a single word of criticism. I hate the fact that I've had messed up men try to take advantage of me physically because they were a-holes who apparently think it's okay to take what they want.

So, yeah, not being entirely happy with your specific gender role must totally be about "wanting no standards or accountability." Give me a freaking break, dude. You're better than this.

I know this was several pages ago, but I wanted to address it:

Yes, I hate the fact that I've walked into interviews to have male interviewers ask illegal questions about my plans to have a family and why I'm even bothering to pursue a certain career field if I want to eventually have children. I hate the fact that when I was in high school, I had a judge at a club competition make a degrading mark about how I'm going to make some man completely miserable one day judging by my legal argumentation skills. I hate that my female friends and I got called names when we did well in debate club because women aren't supposed to be able to argue logically. I hate that since I was a child my family has held me to completely different standards because of my gender. I hate that my family assumes I'm less capable at math and science because of my chromosome pair despite the fact that my hard work has shown otherwise. I hate that my family doesn't value my educational accomplishments as much because they've told me I'm supposed to marry a smart, successful man so it doesn't matter what I do anyway. I hate that I always got told to do chores like washing dishes or cooking whereas my brothers were never, ever asked to do anything of the sort because it's "women's work." I hate that I got crapped on for living with my SO without being married when my brothers who have done the same don't get a single word of criticism. I hate the fact that I've had messed up men try to take advantage of me physically because they were a-holes who apparently think it's okay to take what they want.

So, yeah, not being entirely happy with your specific gender role must totally be about "wanting no standards or accountability." Give me a freaking break, dude. You're better than this.

I can see where your coming from... I've heard the story time after time. I agree it's sometimes hard to be female. Have you ever considered what things are like for men?

I hate the fact that my family expected me to go to med school before I was in preschool. I hate that I had to give up everything that might possibly be fun in Highschool so that I could get into a great college, while my sister did drugs and played. I hate that I was always expected to build things and work on cars even though I have no talent or interest for it. I hate that not getting into medical school makes me feel like I failed my parents, even though I have a great job that I enjoy. I don't like the fact that my female friend and I applied to the same med school and I was denied while she was accepted despite my better grades and higher MCAT scores. I don't like that showing any weakness or lack of confidence makes me unattractive to the point of being unlovable. I hate the expectation that I be a leader in my family who makes no mistakes, and sacrifices my own desires for everyone else. I really hate being treated as though my financial success or failure is the sum of who I am. It hurts that putting up walls after having my heart ripped out makes others consider me less.

A few snide remarks I can handle. I've had plenty of them in my life.

I've actually had to make sacrifices, and be accountable to my failures.

These are why the world needs to change. It is, but it takes time, and never expect your parents to get it. They grew up in an earlier time when things were different. Both of you, forget about doing things for your parents approval, and just keep going your own way the best you can.

As for the scaled up emotions on this forum, look outside, everyone is effected ATM, not just people on this forum and not only in regards to dating. Things are going a bit screwy all round.

I know this was several pages ago, but I wanted to address it:

 

 

 

Yes, I hate the fact that I've walked into interviews to have male interviewers ask illegal questions about my plans to have a family and why I'm even bothering to pursue a certain career field if I want to eventually have children. I hate the fact that when I was in high school, I had a judge at a club competition make a degrading mark about how I'm going to make some man completely miserable one day judging by my legal argumentation skills. I hate that my female friends and I got called names when we did well in debate club because women aren't supposed to be able to argue logically. I hate that since I was a child my family has held me to completely different standards because of my gender. I hate that my family assumes I'm less capable at math and science because of my chromosome pair despite the fact that my hard work has shown otherwise. I hate that my family doesn't value my educational accomplishments as much because they've told me I'm supposed to marry a smart, successful man so it doesn't matter what I do anyway. I hate that I always got told to do chores like washing dishes or cooking whereas my brothers were never, ever asked to do anything of the sort because it's "women's work." I hate that I got crapped on for living with my SO without being married when my brothers who have done the same don't get a single word of criticism. I hate the fact that I've had messed up men try to take advantage of me physically because they were a-holes who apparently think it's okay to take what they want.

 

So, yeah, not being entirely happy with your specific gender role must totally be about "wanting no standards or accountability." Give me a freaking break, dude. You're better than this.

I can see where your coming from... I've heard the story time after time. I agree it's sometimes hard to be female. Have you ever considered what things are like for men?

 

I hate the fact that my family expected me to go to med school before I was in preschool. I hate that I had to give up everything that might possibly be fun in Highschool so that I could get into a great college, while my sister did drugs and played. I hate that I was always expected to build things and work on cars even though I have no talent or interest for it. I hate that not getting into medical school makes me feel like I failed my parents, even though I have a great job that I enjoy. I don't like the fact that my female friend and I applied to the same med school and I was denied while she was accepted despite my better grades and higher MCAT scores. I don't like that showing any weakness or lack of confidence makes me unattractive to the point of being unlovable. I hate the expectation that I be a leader in my family who makes no mistakes, and sacrifices my own desires for everyone else. I really hate being treated as though my financial success or failure is the sum of who I am. It hurts that putting up walls after having my heart ripped out makes others consider me less.

 

A few snide remarks I can handle. I've had plenty of them in my life.

 

I've actually had to make sacrifices, and be accountable to my failures.