The fear of saying no to a woman

There was a girl I met in first year uni who was a lesbian by choice. She wasn't attracted to women at first, but she was getting used to it (or so she claimed), because she had a very bad history with men. Perhaps you should try it. Who knows, you might like it. And you'd be free of women and their evils.

um, if a guy is into women – and has no interest in other men – he's technically a lesbian ... :D:D

just kidding guys. People can be a bit silly at times, though.

as for Woggle's original comment, "men can turn things around by learning to say no to a woman," I'm with that 100 percent. Not saying "no" in the sense of thwarting someone just because you can, but because you aren't afraid of boundaries – it's something my husband does, and I respect him completely for taking his stand.

sometimes I don't like it, but then again, he's supposed to be my moral guide the way I'm supposed to be his, so when he says "no," there's a good reason (usually money-related issues and wanting to do stuff). Even when I think it's not justified (like when it's related to sex) and I'm not happy about it, it forces me to consider it from HIS side.

it's all about learning how to better communicate and building respect for that partner. And knowing when that person's "no" is for a valid reason or if it's rooted in some kind of fear. Relationships can only grow if both parties are being honest in their feelings, rather than trying to merely please someone to stay on their good side.

I'm proud of you for getting this, Woggle. Very proud.

It would have been nice for a change, though, for Woggle to have entitled this thread "The fear of saying no to PEOPLE."

Get it?

It would have been nice for a change, though, for Woggle to have entitled this thread "The fear of saying no to PEOPLE."

 

Get it?

But most normal men don't have any problem saying no to other men. Setting boundaries with a friend or coworker is different than setting boundaries with the one who supposedly controls your sex life. Apples and oranges. I haven't followed Woggle's threads enough to defend him entirely, but I can see why he singled out women in this case. Well, that and the fact that all women are ****1ng crazy...

Men can turn things around by learning to say no to a woman.

not just a woman but to everyone

This actually raises a good question, Woggle. If men are much more decent than women, then why are so many gay relationships drama-filled?

Lesbian relationships are even more drama filled. I know a few lesbians and they are crazy.

It would have been nice for a change, though, for Woggle to have entitled this thread "The fear of saying no to PEOPLE."

 

Get it?

It does apply across the board but gender very much matters when it comes to this issue. We have a generation of men that are terrified of pissing off a woman and this is causing them a world of drama. Why do we pretend on a relationship board of all places that we live in a genderless society?

It does apply across the board but gender very much matters when it comes to this issue. We have a generation of men that are terrified of pissing off a woman and this is causing them a world of drama. Why do we pretend on a relationship board of all places that we live in a genderless society?

So then, perhaps, the thread should have been entitled "Why are Men Such Spineless Wimps These Days?"

But, no. You ALWAYS have to put it into a negative spin where women are concerned. Note you have a "pissed off woman" in the title.

It does apply across the board but gender very much matters when it comes to this issue. We have a generation of men that are terrified of pissing off a woman and this is causing them a world of drama. Why do we pretend on a relationship board of all places that we live in a genderless society?

I don't think it's a generation of men. I think it's you and some other men on this website, and perhaps some other men you may know in real life, that's about it. Don't call yourselves a 'generation.' Ranting on a relationship website won't do you any good if you're that afraid of pissing off a woman. Getting some good therapy might be of some help because that kind of fear is abnormal.

I don't think it's a generation of men. I think it's you and some other men on this website, and perhaps some other men you may know in real life, that's about it. Don't call yourselves a 'generation.' Ranting on a relationship website won't do you any good if you're that afraid of pissing off a woman. Getting some good therapy might be of some help because that kind of fear is abnormal.

Agreed.

Happy Friday, by the way!!!

Lesbian relationships are even more drama filled. I know a few lesbians and they are crazy.

You can't generalize about all lesbians by knowing just a few.

I live in the US town with the highest percentage of lesbians. While some lesbian relationships are drama filled, they tend to be much longer lasting than gay male and even hetero relationships. Most of the lesbians I know have been with their partners for over ten years and faithful (many for over fifteen and twenty).

Interesting...

You can't generalize about all lesbians by knowing just a few.

 

I live in the US town with the highest percentage of lesbians. While some lesbian relationships are drama filled, they tend to be much longer lasting than gay male and even hetero relationships. Most of the lesbians I know have been with their partners for over ten years and faithful (many for over fifteen and twenty).

 

Interesting...

"Gay women are > gay men"

Woman, does your misandry know no bounds? :lmao:

How often do you see women on this board starting threads about how all men are x,y, z negative traits? I can count on one hand the number of such threads I've seen on LS in the last 2.5 years. Yet there have been tons of misogynistic threads.

There are plenty of women who have been hurt by bad men, but women are less inclined to demonize the whole opposite gender like some men do when they've been hurt a few times. (For the record I'm not talking about all men, but a very vocal chunk.)

Wonder why that is?

Is it because women are more social creatures, so they have a more nuanced understanding of social dynamics? In other words they get that if men A, B, and C are bad that doesn't = all/most men are bad.

The simplistic logic these bitter male posters use reminds me of the way that children reason. I wonder if it's a lack of emotional intelligence. Throw natural male aggression into the mix and it makes sense. Men may be more likely to respond to hurt by getting angry, and sometimes one woman isn't enough to contain all the anger so it spreads out over the whole gender.

"Gay women are > gay men"

 

Woman, does your misandry know no bounds? :lmao:

Way to skew my words. If this is how you usually reason, I can see how you've come to false conclusions about women. I never said they were better. I simply stated that their relationships tend to last longer, which is true. So stating that lesbian relationships tend to last longer = I'm a misandrist. Right.

I find it humorous that you accuse him of having a god complex because he purports to know what everyone is thinking & then you go on in the next paragraph to declare for everyone's thoughts that Woggle's posts aren't helpful to anyone.

 

I find his posts to be helpful in that they often express some of my own frustrations in dealing with the opposite sex so speak for yourself, please.

If his posts are helpful to you, then it works for you. Fine.

And I am speaking for myself. However, threads derived such as this one, is by someone who is SPEAKING falsely on behalf of another gender as a whole from a place that is based on something not related to me personally. Therefore, I take offense. As do others.

Not all Arabs are terrorists...Not all Germans are Nazis...Umkay?

How often do you see women on this board starting threads about how all men are x,y, z negative traits? I can count on one hand the number of such threads I've seen on LS in the last 2.5 years. Yet there have been tons of misogynistic threads.

I would wager the true # would be closer to even, but I notice more anti-male than anti-female sentiments because it offends me more, much like why I would assume that you notice more anti-female than anti-male sentiments.

There are plenty of women who have been hurt by bad men, but women are less inclined to demonize the whole opposite gender like some men do when they've been hurt a few times. (For the record I'm not talking about all men, but a very vocal chunk.)

 

Wonder why that is?

 

Is it because women are more social creatures, so they have a more nuanced understanding of social dynamics? In other words they get that if men A, B, and C are bad that doesn't = all/most men are bad.

I think it's simply a result of social conditioning. Most males don't really have an outlet for a release of frustrations. We can't talk to our friends about it because we're just supposed to suck it up and deal with it. Introduce the internet & anonymity & voila!

Way to skew my words. If this is how you usually reason, I can see how you've come to false conclusions about women. I never said they were better. I simply stated that their relationships tend to last longer, which is true. So stating that lesbian relationships tend to last longer = I'm a misandrist. Right.

Well the :lmao: were supposed to indicate an exaggeration made in jest, but I do find it humorous that in the post just above this one you assert that women (of which I assume you classify yourself as one) are better at not generalizing an entire gender....then you immediately post how an entire gender's homosexuals "tend to last longer, which is true".

"Gay women are > gay men"

 

Woman, does your misandry know no bounds? :lmao:

This is why I love this forum. People like shadowplay make it an endless source of amusement

This is why I love this forum. People like shadowplay make it an endless source of amusement

And we now hear from the pot, discussing the kettle.

I would wager the true # would be closer to even, but I notice more anti-male than anti-female sentiments because it offends me more, much like why I would assume that you notice more anti-female than anti-male sentiments.

 

 

Could you link to a few of these anti-men threads? I'm honestly curious.

I only remember one recently about a woman who was vowing to use the next man she dated as retaliation. But it was pretty transparent that was written by a troll in order to stir up sh&!t.

If you can find a few anti-men threads written by women who have more than say a 20 count posting history (ensuring they're not trolls), I'd really like to see them.

Could you link to a few of these anti-men threads? I'm honestly curious.

 

I only remember one recently about a woman who was vowing to use the next man she dated as retaliation. But it was pretty transparent that was written by a troll in order to stir up sh&!t.

 

If you can find a few anti-men threads written by women who have more than say a 20 count posting history (ensuring they're not trolls), I'd really like to see them.

Sorry, sugar, I could care less than to spend my time trying to convince you that I perceive things differently than you do which is no concession of point, just a lack of desire to fulfill your request based on the "payoff".

Sorry, sugar, I could care less than to spend my time trying to convince you that I perceive things differently than you do which is no concession of point, just a lack of desire to fulfill your request based on the "payoff".

Couldn't find any, eh?

I think it's simply a result of social conditioning. Most males don't really have an outlet for a release of frustrations. We can't talk to our friends about it because we're just supposed to suck it up and deal with it. Introduce the internet & anonymity & voila!

I can see the logic. If venting to his friends about romantic disappointment is liable to result in those friends responding in a negative, disinterested way - telling him to STFU and deal with it like a man, then that's liable to increase frustration.

The part I don't understand is the indignation when female posters respond negatively to these vents. Is there an expectation that female strangers on the Internet will demonstrate more tolerance, in response to vitriolic vents about the female gender, than a man could expect from his own friends?

I can see the logic. If venting to his friends about romantic disappointment is liable to result in those friends responding in a negative, disinterested way - telling him to STFU and deal with it like a man, then that's liable to increase frustration.

 

The part I don't understand is the indignation when female posters respond negatively to these vents. Is there an expectation that female strangers on the Internet will demonstrate more tolerance, in response to vitriolic vents about the female gender, than a man could expect from his own friends?

I would be speculating my response to your question because for myself I love women & come here to get both perspectives. Off the top of my head I enjoy female posters such as you (I never see you gender bash & you approach topics with a healthy mix of reason and compassion) and Lizzie60 (I may not like that she relishes being an OW, but that woman tells it like it is and she has a solid grasp on the way the male mind works) just to name a couple.

Anyhow, back to your question, I would assume they vent not with the idea that the women will accept their views, but to reach out to other males dealing with the same emotions for acceptance. There may even be an element of enjoyment from evoking the negative responses from the susceptible females as a way of "sticking it to them". But again, that would be speculation on my part, because I love women!

Couldn't find any, eh?

Yep, these elusive threads seem to be mysteriously viewable to just a few posters and nobody else on LS. I and other posters have asked for links whenever they're mentioned and nobody has ever been able to produce them. The mystery continues.

 

The part I don't understand is the indignation when female posters respond negatively to these vents. Is there an expectation that female strangers on the Internet will demonstrate more tolerance, in response to vitriolic vents about the female gender, than a man could expect from his own friends?

In some cases it seems to be device that makes them immune to criticism. If a woman happens to respond with indignation to an anti-woman post, "ah ha!" she's only proving their point that all women hate men.

Aligning with the differences in hating styles, men fear saying no to a woman simply because she will hate him, and only him, and f*ck one of his buddies just for sport, because, obviously, she doesn't hate the entire male gender.

Got that one from real life, only this past weekend. Women love to talk to me