What is more important? Health or material items?

It doesn't matter if the man works or if the woman works. As long as the kid is taken care of and raised knowing its parents love it - its all good.

The mom could take a few years off and then go back to work while the dad takes a few years off.

They could both work part time at different shift times.

One or both could work from home.

They could open a business together on their own property.

One of the things I've noticed since moving in 2006 to DC; an area of excess and affluence:

Most of the women here DID (and still do) stay at home. Most of the men DID (and still do) support their families with large incomes. And most of their kids, now adults........

Effing worthless, vapid, and completely incapable of feeling content.

Something about excess just ruins people far faster than both parents working ever did.

I most definitely would go for the more "simple life" than trying to compete for material gains. I've thought a lot about this - I'm getting ready to go back to school to earn my BSN. I'm doing it more for the knowledge, but know the paycheck will be pretty good and the experience will be fun. But if I were to get married after becoming a nurse and we had kids, I'd want to be home until the kids were in preschool. Then I'd really only want to be at work when the kids were in school, or if my FH was available to take care of the kids. I really don't want to put my kids in daycare.

I think it's important for the woman to have her own education and career possibilities in case things fall to crap, but if a married couple is going to have children, I think as long as the relationship is good, they should focus on taking care of those kids.

I've moved into more traditional thoughts about this particular subject over the years. I'd love to just be a full-time SAHM, but still think a career is important, even if it's only part-time.

Ok, you love you work..

 

So you loving your work is more important than the welfare and health of your husband and kids? I mean if you ever became married..Are you open to marrying a guy who wants you to support him. I mean you keep mentioning STAH.

 

The above to me is selfish.. Sure, we can vaguely say "All sorts of situations work", but when thought of in a logical matter, obviously quality of life will suffer when both parents are working full time.

No, my work isn't more important than the welfare and health of my husband and kid. That is why I feel it is important for me to find someone who also wants to be a partner and who wants to prioritize the same things I do: a balance between love for each other, nurturing and caregiving for the children and a passion for work (and preferably an interest in each other's work). I've done it in the past, so I'm not even being idealistic here. My well-being is as important as that of my husband and child. I don't see why that would make me any more or less selfish then a man.

Would I support a husband? Gladly - as long as he enjoyed it. I once dated a guy who loved to carve wood, do photography and hang out with his nephews all day. I was absolutely smitten because of that fact. But since most men derive a great part of their identity from their work - as do I - I am willing to find compromises to ensure the well-being of all members of the family.

It is all in what my partner and I would chose to prioritize and I hope we would prioritize health, well-being and definitely the children.

Calizaggy, what do you propose to do?

Make credit much tighter?

Make getting student and business loans more difficult?

Impose sever sanctions and restrictions on credit card companies and mortgage companies?

Destroy the Federal Reserve?

Unless you create a total revolution in the banking system as it has evolved since the last century there is no way enough women will ever have the option to be a SAHM to make a difference

And was long as women are working they will have less kids

And as they have less and less kids families in the west will fragment, become weaker and virtually disappear

American and European countries will need to import more immigrants who have larger families to make up the labor force so that the tax base ill be supported

And the European genotypes will atrophy and disolve and their former cultures will be forgotten

Thats just the way it has to be because thats the way its set up to be

No, my work isn't more important than the welfare and health of my husband and kid. That is why I feel it is important for me to find someone who also wants to be a partner and who wants to prioritize the same things I do: a balance between love for each other, nurturing and caregiving for the children and a passion for work (and preferably an interest in each other's work). I've done it in the past, so I'm not even being idealistic here. My well-being is as important as that of my husband and child. I don't see why that would make me any more or less selfish then a man.

 

.

Well perhaps you are not cut out to have children, not all people are..

You could never devote as much time and energy to yourself, husband, and children as a STAM would. I think most men would want to marry a woman who would choose spending more time with their offspring than sitting in an office. And very few men, if any, will have a genuine interest in your work.

I think clearly you are thinking of what makes you happy first, your kids and husband second. By dividing everything "equally" you are taking time away from what is most important, your family. There are only so many hours in the day.

Well perhaps you are not cut out to have children, not all people are..

 

You could never devote as much time and energy to yourself, husband, and children as a STAM would. I think most men would want to marry a woman who would choose spending more time with their offspring than sitting in an office. And very few men, if any, will have a genuine interest in your work.

 

I think clearly you are thinking of what makes you happy first, your kids and husband second. By dividing everything "equally" you are taking time away from what is most important, your family. There are only so many hours in the day.

I'm sorry to report you have very little deciding power as to how I carry my life caligazzy.

As I have said, I don't see why wanting to share responsibilities would make me any more selfish than the men in the same scenario.

I've also pointed out that each couple has to decide what works best for them and that you have the right to want a more traditional family structure. Your opinions of me have very little impact on my life experiences.

The two of us will clearly never date, so I don't see the point of arguing about this. I can recognize your desires as valid and possible, and I don't understand why you feel the need to criticize mine. Its not like all women and all men have to all like and want the same thing. We don't, and that's what makes finding a signigicant other so special.

I've also listed a series of ways which made healthy eating possible and since I work flex - as does my bf - we could figure out a schedule that includes a kid. We sometimes talk about it and I know it would be possible.

You can meet someone who shares your world view. I have met not one, but three guys, who not only tolerated but preferred a partnership model, mainly because they do want to be involved in their child's life as much as I do.

Well without defined roles people have far too many options and have little clue as to what to do..

You can "love working" but I would bet you would be more deeply fullfilled hugging your husband in bed right now than debating on the internet.

Men give long lasting eternal love to women that give them power, serve them, and let them provide. You might have dated a few guys that claimed they liked your ideas etc, but untimately you are not with them. it did not last.

Something magical seems to be missing when roles are shared/reversed. Kind of like roomates that have sex and hang out..

 

You can "love working" but I would bet you would be more deeply fullfilled hugging your husband in bed right now than debating on the internet.

 

Hell yes I would love for bf to be here right now! Of course! He's tons of fun and a bag of chips.

That's my point though. We have fun together. We make it work together. It isn't about gender roles but about caring and loving each other and wanting each other to be happy. Not just him, not just me.

I'll take what I can get and I will enjoy love while it last.

Well without defined roles people have far too many options and have little clue as to what to do..

 

You can "love working" but I would bet you would be more deeply fullfilled hugging your husband in bed right now than debating on the internet.

 

Men give long lasting eternal love to women that give them power, serve them, and let them provide. You might have dated a few guys that claimed they liked your ideas etc, but untimately you are not with them. it did not last.

 

Something magical seems to be missing when roles are shared/reversed. Kind of like roomates that have sex and hang out..

This kind of conservative romantacism almost makes you sound like a Muslim cleric

The fact is most women want to work and want financial freedom. They might not like their job and they might not like being in debt, but they prefer it to total dependence on their husbands and a state of indentured servitude to their spouse

So they choose a state of indentured servitude to the banks instead. Just like most of us do

Our system of credit has allowed us to prosper financially and grow technologically at a lightning rate, but it has also taken a huge toll on the family because it requires so much work to keep up with our debts

But that is the way it is

So, once again, calizaggy asks a question then tells everyone that no matter what their opinion they should see things calizaggy's way? Why even bother asking questions if all you want to do is push your agenda? Man up and just push your agenda without all this useless banter. Sheesh.

Its cool that not everyone thinks alike though

Well without defined roles people have far too many options and have little clue as to what to do..

 

You can "love working" but I would bet you would be more deeply fullfilled hugging your husband in bed right now than debating on the internet.

 

Men give long lasting eternal love to women that give them power, serve them, and let them provide. You might have dated a few guys that claimed they liked your ideas etc, but untimately you are not with them. it did not last.

 

Something magical seems to be missing when roles are shared/reversed. Kind of like roomates that have sex and hang out..

If you truly believe what you're saying here, then as great as your parents are, they did you a diservice in making you believe this.

Men do not give long lasting eternal love to women who act like this.

Men are people and people give eternal love when they have spiritually matured and not defined roles of who should do what.

Your sense of thinking is a little warped and unrealistic. I can guess that you're in your early 20's and not really had a serious relationship, but correct me if I'm wrong

Men's natural role is as a provider...

As a small example, women are COMPLETELY turned off by a man who asks to go DUTCH on a first date. Similarly, men enjoy paying..(For the right woman, not the hypocritical one that boasts equality but hates paying half)

I have dated plenty of women who earn good money and always view that money as THEIR money. They also did not believe in playing the old fashioned woman role. So I was stuck paying and still had to cook for her and myself.

Women these days are very conflicted as their biological side is caring, nurturing, and wants to be taken care of.. But present society tells them to work, earn their own money, and try to "be equal".

During the past few decades we have seen depression rates skyrocket for women, but not for men. Divorce rates have risen, as well as the rate of single moms..More and more women will end up with cats as opposed to a loving family..

Most evidence points towards women doing too much that they cannot handle, and still remain mentally stable. All I am sugesting is a way for everyone to have more time and return to a simpler, physically and more mentally healthy life.

I believe a woman who had a loving family of her own, and who spent her life raising kids and taking care of her one loving husband will look back far more favorably on her life when she is on her deathbed, than the woman who worked and made top sales lady/best accountant while having tons of 3 month relationships, and was able to merely pay her own way.

Or the woman who had kids, but worked 50 weeks out of the year unneccesarily just because she could, while missing her kids growing up. Everyone in that family would have been done a disservice, herself included..

Men's natural role is as a provider...

 

As a small example, women are COMPLETELY turned off by a man who asks to go DUTCH on a first date. Similarly, men enjoy paying..(For the right woman, not the hypocritical one that boasts equality but hates paying half)

 

I have dated plenty of women who earn good money and always view that money as THEIR money. They also did not believe in playing the old fashioned woman role. So I was stuck paying and still had to cook for her and myself.

 

Women these days are very conflicted as their biological side is caring, nurturing, and wants to be taken care of.. But present society tells them to work, earn their own money, and try to "be equal".

 

During the past few decades we have seen depression rates skyrocket for women, but not for men. Divorce rates have risen, as well as the rate of single moms..More and more women will end up with cats as opposed to a loving family..

 

Most evidence points towards women doing too much that they cannot handle, and still remain mentally stable. All I am sugesting is a way for everyone to have more time and return to a simpler, physically and more mentally healthy life.

 

I believe a woman who had a loving family of her own, and who spent her life raising kids and taking care of her one loving husband will look back far more favorably on her life when she is on her deathbed, than the woman who worked and made top sales lady/best accountant while having tons of 3 month relationships, and was able to merely pay her own way.

 

Or the woman who had kids, but worked 50 weeks out of the year unneccesarily just because she could, while missing her kids growing up. Everyone in that family would have been done a disservice, herself included..

I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks from this post

WOW!

Hm, health no doubt.

However, I wouldn't want to be a stay at home mother, one, I don't want kids, two, if I had kids, why should that stop me fulfilling my dreams? I knew someone who married, had children and the nice house, car, stayed at home as he was well-paid, then one day, he left her for another woman. This woman had to then start from scratch in a council house, with two kids, yes, he contributed but the point is simple. If you live your life depending on a man, one day, just one day, you may not have anyone to depend on.

I see what you're saying, but sometimes raising children on a tight, single income is difficult and makes no sense. Wouldn't you rather be able to provide as much as you could, rather than simply giving what you can to live to this traditional idea? Why should women have to conform to old, traditionalist ideals while the men get all the fulfillment? I'm not being feminist, but it seems pretty dire to me. Women are just as intelligent as men, and should be able to pursue their dreams as much as men. Having children should not prevent that. Children shouldn't be something you sacrifice everything for, they should be something that enriches your life.

When I was young, I was raised by two working parents. When I was really young, my mam didn't work clearly because she had two young 'uns to care for, but that's like before I started primary school. From then on, there's been two salaries coming in a month. We never wanted for anything, and I think we are all healthy and happy, and our bond is tight. We had the holidays, the time together, we didn't miss out. They worked their schedules so that we could eat homecooked meals, and takeout were for treats only i.e. birthdays. I don't think I would have gained anything more had my mam stayed at home 24/7.

Ok, you love you work..

 

So you loving your work is more important than the welfare and health of yourself, husband and kids? I mean if you ever became married..Are you open to marrying a guy who wants you to support him. I mean you keep mentioning STAH.

 

The above to me is selfish.. Sure, we can vaguely say "All sorts of situations work", but when thought of in a logical matter, obviously quality of life will suffer when both parents are working full time.

Wow, it's selfish that she wants to have her own ideals and goals? That she loves working and being independent? I think it's predominantly selfish for men to request that as soon as they have children, the woman reliquinshes (sp?) her right for a life and career of her own, and forfeit her own identity. While the men get to keep theirs intact.

I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks from this post

 

WOW!

yeah, I don't even wanna go there.

Men's natural role is as a provider...

 

As a small example, women are COMPLETELY turned off by a man who asks to go DUTCH on a first date. Similarly, men enjoy paying..(For the right woman, not the hypocritical one that boasts equality but hates paying half)

 

I have dated plenty of women who earn good money and always view that money as THEIR money. They also did not believe in playing the old fashioned woman role. So I was stuck paying and still had to cook for her and myself.

 

Women these days are very conflicted as their biological side is caring, nurturing, and wants to be taken care of.. But present society tells them to work, earn their own money, and try to "be equal".

 

During the past few decades we have seen depression rates skyrocket for women, but not for men. Divorce rates have risen, as well as the rate of single moms..More and more women will end up with cats as opposed to a loving family..

 

Most evidence points towards women doing too much that they cannot handle, and still remain mentally stable. All I am sugesting is a way for everyone to have more time and return to a simpler, physically and more mentally healthy life.

 

I believe a woman who had a loving family of her own, and who spent her life raising kids and taking care of her one loving husband will look back far more favorably on her life when she is on her deathbed, than the woman who worked and made top sales lady/best accountant while having tons of 3 month relationships, and was able to merely pay her own way.

 

Or the woman who had kids, but worked 50 weeks out of the year unneccesarily just because she could, while missing her kids growing up. Everyone in that family would have been done a disservice, herself included..

Wow, I thought you couldn't be more sexist if you tried. But you could. Women predominantly suffer more with mental illness, and this isn't necessarily because they work. In the 19th Century, mental illness in women was high, and if you read literature written at that time by women i.e. The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, (who herself was actually describing a period of mental illness in her RL.) A lot of their mental illness relates to confinement, oppression, dominance of man, they were viewed as hysterical because men had no other word for it. Yet, women are bound by hormones, and probably not crazy. Anyway. My point is, even in those days, when women predominantly stayed at home, there were many cases of mental illness within women. Charlotte Perkins Gilman wrote that what saved her from mental ruin was work. Had she not been able to teach, write and travel the world, she would have went mad.

I wouldn't want to look back on my life and think 'I wish I'd fulfilled my childhood dream', and realize that I could have done that and have children too. I don't want children, but if I did have them, I wouldn't sacrifice my career and identity, sure, I'd look after them, love them, they'd be raised well, fed, clothed, spend quality time together, but I would keep a shred of myself, for myself.

Well without defined roles people have far too many options

That's ridiculous. If you insist on a so called traditional role, find a woman who also wants to have a tradiational role.

Do NOT insist that the rest of the population follow traditional roles and write some BS that they have too many options. Many couples want these options.

Anyone want to take a guess as to why the OP isnt a happily married man with a couple kids?

The part that's most humourous, is that the OP is holding himself/his life up as the posterchild for why women should be SAHMs.

Anyone want to take a guess as to why the OP isnt a happily married man with a couple kids?

Like I said, he's more than likely very young with little actual life experience,

He saw his Mom being a slave to his Dad, probably saw her go through MENTALpause and thinks this is the real world.

His thread started off with good innocent intent though.......

Any other menopausal women want to take a stab at this thread?

hahahah

I grew up in a traditional household. My father worked, mother stayed home. Disadvantages might have been fewer vacations, same furniture, kept cars longer, cheaper clothes, etc.

 

On the other hand, my sister and I never ate McDonalds or any other fast food until we were adults. My mother cooked everyday, and nobody in my family was ever overweight.

 

Another advantage to my upbriging was that everyone had more time. When my father was off work he would take me to play sports, since he did not have to come home, cook, clean etc.

 

Time and health to me are far more important than money. Are there women out there who yearn for a slower, more traditional life? Or do most women view life as showing off to girlfriends and earning their own money in case of divorce? It just seems selfish to me.

 

I feel most men CAN support a family with a good wife on a single income. If a wife cooks from scratch that saves a ton of money. Money on daycare is saved..Everyone is more healthy and has far more time. What i remember about my childhood, and appreciate is the amount of time I spent with my parents.. If we lived in a bigger box, or drove a newer piece of metal I do not think that would have made my childhood any better.

Why do you care what women want? Why don't you find a nice "traditional" foreign girl who has the same values as you, get married, have kids and be happy? You cannot change the world and certainly cannot stop this train that moves women forward to accomplish their goals and desires. I grew up in a home where my mother was a SAHM and she loved her life. BTW, my mother was overweight. I loved having my mom home for me but never, ever wanted a life like hers. It certainly doesn't mean that I didn't respect what she chose to do, I just didn't find it interesting or fulfilling in the least. Thus, she felt the same way about my life. But we both respect the other's choices. That's what you are going to have to learn to do in this new world or you will continue to frustrate yourself. Women are not going to revert back to what we use to be - we are only going to move forward and like it or not; sooner or later you are going to just have to accept the inevitable. The next U.S. President will probably be a woman.

What good is wealth if you,re too ill to enjoy any of it???

So definietely health for me.. all the way.. always have.. always will think like that.

Thanks Lizzie; I thought my response was off-topic, given the direction of the thread

My motto is die broke and enjoy the ride for as long as possible